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Big cats are largely nocturnal so daytime success rates are alwats gonna be lower...... but you might try a red light next time because they don't see it.  If you don't want to or can't use a red spotlight, try a few red LEDs close to the bait. It won't give you as good a light as a spot (which is more gentle anyway) but they do help. | |||
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Saeed: Where was your support for how I chose to legally hunt when I reported here on AR I had gone on a legal lion hunt in an enclosure? I'd say Steve is a long time member an somewhat well respected here on AR, yet he was surrounded with vocal supporters when he all but called me low life scum for shooting a male lion (legally I might add) in SA in an enclosure. As he has often condemed the practice of on these same pages. The question seems to be if one is not in the "AR Outter Circle" are they not free to post how they choose to hunt, without the muck rakeing tossed at them? *I AM MAKING NOTE THAT "LOW LIFE SCUM" WERE NOT STEVE'S WORDS TO BE QUOTED, BUT RATHER MY WORDS REFLECTING HOW HIS COMMENTS WERE READ BY MYSELF. W.U. | |||
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2th doc, I've never made any secret of the fact I have a deep distaste of canned lion hunting and everything associated with it but I'm sure I'm far too polite to suggest you're low life scum.... and frankly, that isn't my opinion of you. I also doubt very much that anyone here (or anywhere else for that matter) would support my opinion simply because it's my opinion. The guys here can all think for themselves and if they express an opinion, I'm sure that opinion is theirs and nothing to do with me. And while I'm at it, can I point out that Hokkaido is probably laughing his bollocks off right now at the way this thread is about to go because his aim is obviously to stir the shit in general and take a dig at 505 in particular........ | |||
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Very common in places like the Save! I too spent 11 days on Senuko to take my lion. I did see 3 males in full daylight, but they were pups. It does happen, but not as often as truly wild places, thus the need for light. It was a great lion Brad, you should be PROUD! | |||
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+1  I'd still recommend a red light next time though! | |||
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And who knows this might also attract a couple of hookers? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Or (God forbid) punters!  | |||
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Just look how Hokkaido treated other other members who asked about his deer hunting in Japan. Several of us asked questions in a polite manner and we were referred to as "jerk-offs" "dickheads" and all kinds of names. The guy is an ass that gets off stirring crap. I am glad he seems to only hunt in Japan - that way I don't ever have to worry about bumping into him. | |||
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Steve, we actually did have a red spotlight, but the males reacted to it the same as the straight light. | |||
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So where are the CATS' pictures Terrence? USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I am surprised to hear that members think that just because something is legal it makes it right. | |||
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Don't confuse hunting big cats at night with spotlighting herbivores in the pasture. If you've read any Jim Corbett you'll appreciate the extra danger and difficulty involved. The cats' confidence and audacity is generally conceded to be markedly different after sundown. There's a good reason why Humans frequently have a fear of the Dark. __ Here's a photo, not mine, of a situation caught by the flash of the camera and published in a well known Safari book:  The PH getting mauled is Mike Prettejohn. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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I would not call shooting a lion in an enclosure hunting. But, I have always maintained it is up to the individual to decide if that is what he wants to do. | |||
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I've never seen this photo, any story to go along with it? | |||
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Call me crazy or blind, but that looks like a wolf to me more than a kitty! ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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Thx Aaron. The 2009 Act is not "in effect" yet because the 14 or so Regulations that go with it are not in place - including the Tourist Hunting Regs. Most of the "circulars" from the Directorate of Wildlife were issued shortly after the '74 Act or within a couple of years and are buried deep into the WD archives - but they exist and they are legal. These various circulars, are NOT acceptable rules but are supplemental Regulations. There is a clause in the Act that allows the Director with permission form the Minister to do that as a mechanism to rectify what was ommited in the main Act. Aaron, so the same lion that can't be hunted at night in a reserve or safari area can the moment it crosses a boundary into private land? If so, what is the purpose of making it illegal on reserves?  Or is such a scenario not possible in Zim?"...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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In Zimbabwe, the land owner is the legal owner of the animal, so should a Lion cross over from state land, where he can not be hunted at night, onto private land, he may be hunted at night. | |||
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You think that's bad. South Africa has nine provinces and each has it's own set of game laws and game depts.  It's rucking fidiculous! 505, I'm not a vet and am talking from a layman's point of view but as I understand it, they don't see red light..... from my experience however, they do seem to notice the glare when the light first goes on (esp if it's pointed at them when the light comes on) and I've found the way to get over that is to first shine the light elsewhere, usually into the sky and then slowly bring it down onto the cat. Doing it that way, the most reaction I've ever noticed is they might look round once and growl and then go back to feeding. As I said, you might also consider trying putting a few red LED headtorches in appropriate places close to the bait. New batteries will easily last for 24 hours so you don't need to worry about them giving up the ghost before you need them. They don't give a helluva lot of light but they're a lot better than nothing. | |||
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The picture above, showing the mauling, is from Bartle Bulls book, "SAFARI" | |||
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Although, again, I have no stool to launch from in this section, it is very, very, hard to just "go with the flow" of your opinions..... I happen to know that 505 giberish is sincerely out of shape... and under even the best circumstances couldn't stray more than a few minutes from a roadway. Sixteen days of "hunting" or better put "road hunting" with a short, overweight American fellow would not be any PH's idea of fun... at least that's what I gather from private conversations.... Also... it seem's there are a few people around who consider the methods that our fellow "hunter" 505 gibbersih took to be well, far less than a fair chase situation, no matter who drew up the hunting guidelines. While what is legal is, well, legal .... well.... these things by NO MEANS makes a person a hunter when it comes to pursuit of game, especially when stepping up to the plate of a lion, at least not in all situations.. Now, there are a few of you who made money on 505's hunt, and will spontaneously react, as if your client (future, or past) were in a pants open, miniature pecker pointing out, ready to be swallowed up pose. I just wonder when.... the cocksucking can stop... and those of you who know what the real deal is.....could freely speak out,..................... or is this place too engulfed in the idea of "buddy" and "money". People like 505 make Africa look like a joke. Take it as you will, but there at least some truth here... When we cannot speak our minds... does this place not become a regular American site with much more strict rules....it is unfortunate that the site with the most open minded moderator............well. ...............I feel it neccasary to say this site is respected by many, not only those of you who feed your families......It just seems money overruns ideals..Good luck passing on the family business when people like 505 have choked you so silent that you cannot gasp out..... | |||
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Bwana - Yes, I am aware that the 2009 Act has not be officially set in place yet. As for your question regarding lions in Zim, see Neil's response. I can't answer your question as to "why" its different, you would have to ask those that made the law. But it is the LAW. As Neil mentions, once game is on private land in Zim, its owned by the landowner, maybe they took that into consideration, I don't know? Neil and I shot our first lion together 15 years ago, on private land adjacent to Hwange Park, in the Gwaii Valley. We were legally allowed to shoot at night, and frankly Neil and the trackers expected we would shoot at night. However, our luck was such that the lion showed himself at 5pm, and the light wasn't necessary. Our leopard was a different story, 7:30pm he showed, and we needed the light! All I can say is, my experience on private land in different areas of Zim, compared to lion/leopard hunting elsewhere is, that without the aid of light, success on the cat hunts would be GREATLY reduced. Reduced to the point that most hunters likely wouldn't keep coming. | |||
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Moderator, Its pretty clear that this "member" posed a question not to gain any useful info, but rather a deliberate dig at a fellow member. Hok contributes nothing positive to this board. His rants on the Asian board are so far past obscene they might be comical - but are just too pathetic. Please hit him with the banned stick. Thank you, "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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[QUOTE]Please hit him with the banned stick.QUOTE] ... in lieu of a knobkerrie. | |||
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Steve, I do not know the science or biology behind it either, I can only speak from my personal experience. I assure you the lions I encountered could see the red light and the males were just as light shy with the red as the straight. We tried everything, just using the halo of the beam, etc. They did not like light of any kind. In fact, the LED lights on the trail cams were red and everytime they saw that they crunched the cameras. | |||
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505, You have a PM | |||
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I wonder if Lane can (pardon the pun ) shed any light on it?The only reaction I've ever seen from any cat is the one I mentioned if the light is switched on when it's pointed directly at 'em. Hyenas however are a different matter.  Mind you, it still works!  | |||
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Saeed, why bother, it's just CATS stirring up shit. He's been lion hunting like I've been to the moon. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Leopardtrack, for some reason your pm didn't go through. I sent you one, let me know if you get it. | |||
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Hokkaido, who made you king and allmighty to decide how fit/ in shape/ healthy or just plainly a clone of you someone has to be before they may enjoy hunting in Africa? Africa is for everyone, and can be enjoyed by the old, the out of shapes, the unhealthy, but also the very fit and young guys. I think you have never been here, and are thus jealous. Karl Stumpfe Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net karl@huntingsafaris.net P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia Cell: +264 81 1285 416 Fax: +264 61 254 328 Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264 | |||
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Bloody right. Just as long as they have a pulse! | |||
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If I have shot pigs from a tree blind because they are mostly nocturnal and also sometimes I have need the help of a spotlight, why I will not do the same with a lion ?? So we can hunt other animals like that, inclusive leopards but not lions....  If it legal, pay me the hunt and I will do it tomorrow, meanwhile you can continue discussing about ethics....  Steve, I am FAR very FAR from being a expert but a common red light will be seen not happen the same with red LED lights. Some game (pigs) will see the red LED lamp, but not the light that, that lamp produces around them. Because of this is a good idea to set the LED lamp high in the tree (beacuse it will be dificult for a pig to see it) and the use of a reostat also will helps. So they see the LAMP but not the LIGHT that LED lamp produces. The same happen with infrareds. I have notice that when I put turn them ON, many critters (foxes, deers, pigs) will look at me inmedatley, because they see the "origin" of the light, but not the light around them. This is my short experience...maybe I am wrong but... L | |||
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I used a a normal 12v bulb covered with a red 'Gel' from the Bulawayo theater for many years. Bulb was on a rehostat and I gradually turned up the light when I could hear something munching....never disturbed any lion that way! When culling Hyaena's I have used a red lense cover from streamlight- they apeared to be un afraid of it- to thier cost. More recently I tried red, green and blue lights as well as white light on some lions in the local game park...all but red eighther bothered them and caused them to move or was certainly noticed by them. | |||
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Hok contributes nothing positive to this board. His rants on the Asian board are so far past obscene they might be comical - but are just too pathetic. Please hit him with the banned stick. Thank you,[/QUOTE] Jack, Don't have a dog in this hunt either but agree with you 100% if Sneed don't do it personally I will never read one of his posts again. NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
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Guys, since Eric (Hok) can't be honest, let me inform you what his issue is (besides me) as I have listened to it for years and it shows his ignorance of people and how life in general works. Eric feels that the "paid" hunting industry will be the downfall of this sport. He feels that is what is tying up more and more of the public (and private) land that he should be allowed to hunt for free. Now, why he needs to resort to saying that professional hunters are performing fellatio on their clients, I am not sure, perhaps it reflects his general disdain for others in general. What he (and those like him) don't understand is that if the wildlife has no monetary value, than there is no incentive to preserve or conserve it and it will be completely consumed by the population and more profitable ventures that do have a monetary value. Now, Eric could argue that the government is the counterweight to that through their parks and public lands programs, how has that worked in Africa for those of you who have been? Remember this, any government is corrupted by the dollar just as private enterprise is run by it. Nobody out their scratching and clawing for survival (on any level) give 2 shits about Eric (or anyone else) having a place set aside that they can go hunting for free. Now, for Eric, any of those who were priviledged enough to see his meltdown over on the Asian forum, raging over threats of violence and murder while safely hiding behind the skirts of his pc 10k miles away, know the level of person he is. I am sure that gryphon1 and sarg who he named as his violent accomplices appreciate being labled as violent neanderthals by him as well as they have not stepped up and spoken to the contrary. Remember Eric, anyone can talk shit on a computer, and it appears as just that, shit. | |||
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Hok - I got one for ya. I'll be doing a Mtn Goat hunt in September with a good friend of mine, who drew a tag here in Colorado. We will be hunting the whole time at 12,000 - 13,500 ft elevation, packing the goat out on our backs, etc. Why don't you come on over for the hunt, then we can ALL see just how good of a hunter you are, and how FIT, you really THINK you are??????? But don't expect us to be waiting for your sorry ass to catch up, we ain't got time for that! | |||
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Although some game laws in some countries seem non-sensical, game laws in general were developed by hunters for hunters to follow, and the majority are in place for good reason. On Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife lands it is totally illegal to hunt at night, with or without a light. In these wilder lands it isn't always easy to get a lion or leopard on bait in the daylight, but it can be done. On private land, whether the big conservancies, private ranches, or communal or TTL (Tribal Trust Lands) it is perfectly legal to hunt at night, with or without a light. This, I tend to think, is because cats on private lands have been persecuted since about 1890, and it is almost impossible to get them on bait in the daylight. Personally, I prefer daylight baiting not because it is somehow "better" or "more sporting" or "more ethical"--but simply because shooting at night is vastly more difficult, with much greater chance of wounding. But there are great hunting areas, including the Save, Lemco, many others, where night hunting is almost essential...thank goodness it's legal. A sound application of sensible game laws! | |||
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This one time African hunter (buff)speaking from his vast experience will only add that he is a romantic about lion hunting -and that facing a charging lion at close quarters always seemed more scary than an elephant charge from what I saw of films. I saw elephant closer than I liked in a mock charge -and, yes, scary (and deafening from the screams I heard from a matriarch)but a lion in that low scuttling rush I have seen on films must be a terrifically difficult target to get a sight picture on -and that's in daylight. The prospect of facing a lion at night -on the ground- really scares me -(and makes me wish I was young enough to try it) To be honest, and I have no experience in it -but shooting at a lion already blinded by a searchlight -and I am above him - just is not my cup of tea as the English say. (And I'm an Irishman!)) | |||
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Bearing in mind what yesterday was, it's probably best not to mention tea to the colonials old chap!  | |||
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Forever a smart-ass! | |||
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I'll get back with you on this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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