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| One of Us |
Hello There.. Forgive me for trespassing, I am a simple American with no business here really, but would like to ask a question. I don't know much about any hunting in Africa, but I saw a fellow bragging on this board about shooting a huge lion and this cockhead, ooops..., I mean gentleman has left out some interesting details, such as being in an elevated blind, shooting at night, and using artificial light. I happen to have an "inside line" on the situation and know what really happened. I would like to ask: Is this type of "hunting" legal? Also, what kind of respect would a "hunter" like this deserve? Your answers are much appreciated. | ||
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Hey Hok, here's a thought - Why don't you fill out your form in Japanese. It will sound so much less... Uh like an moron expat.  "You only gotta do one thing well to make it in this world" - J Joplin | |||
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From what I understand about cat hunting in farming or communal ares is that it is not uncommon to shoot them under a light. But due to these animals being persecuted by farmers and the like, more so than remote wilderness area cats, they are as hard to get even with the advantage of a light. | |||
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138 previous posts and you sound off you have no business here? then what praytell are you doing here in light of your claim to have inside information? move on, my friend. gentlemen, please let this thread expire. | |||
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Were you present when this happened? If so, please enlighten us with all the details. | |||
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There are a couple of countries which allow this practice and therefore it is legal there. Occasionally an elevated blind is used if there is more than one Lion around or if the wind is tricky. If elephant are common in the area then it is wise to get off the ground for obvious reasons. The hunting of Lion is a dangerous game and each professional will play it differently. I have stopped walking up Lion as there is a high chance of wounding a the cat. To dispatch an animal quickly and cleanly with what ever method you choose is better than taking a shot in the dark. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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5 responses and only one attempts to answer the question! I will probably never hunt lion, but I am certainly interested in the answer. I think the only video I have seen is the "let them choose how they want to die" fellow with a client shooting from a ground blind, over bait, but in pretty much broad daylight. Fairgame, which countries allow hunting lion at night using a light? Do any have restrictions on elevated blinds? Thanks, Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Zimbabwe for one allows the use of artificial light outside of a National Park or its Safari areas. I have used a tree blind in an area with a high population of Elephant and think they are just great. | |||
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so we have the answer - the practice is legal. time to move on. | |||
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If hunting lion at night, you may have a bait or may be using a call, or both. Sitting in the dark waiting for a lion to come to you is no low intensity psychological experience. You're waiting to hear bones crunching, or to try to hear the sounds of the lion(s) walking or running in. You can only turn the light on when you're rather sure the lion is within shooting distance, because they are unlikely to give you more than a few seconds to decide to shoot before departing, and turning on the light too often or too early may deter the lions from coming in. You're not sitting inside a truck or inside a cage, or wearing night-vision goggles. A Machan offers some protection, since many PH's have apparently had a lion in amongst them in the dark while attempting this kind of hunt. __ Walking in to your blind in the pre-dawn darkness when you can hear lions and hyenas fighting over the bait is another way guaranteed to get you on full attention. Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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The question was asked an answer given, though none be obligated to do so. The very point of internet forums, I think. | |||
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ozhunter, thanks! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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True enough, You see, this is a BIG site, I try not to meander where I don't belong. I have not posted in the African section of this site for two simple reasons.. I've never been there and.. I know very little about hunting etiquette there. While I may make assumptions, I choose to ask first, as many here are able to inform in these type of situations. You might learn from me.
I hope this is not a trail case as I have far less lingual skills than a lawyer, but the case seems very clear. Not that I would know if such actions were ethical or not. Names and pictures can be provided, I'm just not sure what repercussions would follow as the "hunter" involved is "one of your own".
I would agree! It seems this practice of lion "hunting" is not only legal but ethical and challenging as well. I'll take it for what it is worth as honestly, I had no idea, only a mistaken presumption and henceforth asked the question. | |||
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It is all for the best my friend, as you say you knew nothing of hunting in Africa, asked the question and found yourself surrounded by gentlemen able and willing to help. This is merely one of the pleasures of being a member of a forum populated by the more than one gentleman. I have had so much help from these guys, and to be entirely fair people I know in real life  , that I operate a "pass-it-along" system with respect to knowledge.If I find that if it's really getting to be a pain explaining the same things over and over I keep a little ditty in my email folder to send to curious souls. I have found myself in this slightly onerous position by virtue of living and hunting in a country that isn't perhaps normally associated with shooting by others across the world, lord knows i've encountered a few of that type on AR, but still soldier on because I remember how much I enjoy reading of their exploits in their own countries. If you are interested in the UK scene here is a little glossary I put together for a mate on the forums : http://forums.accuratereloadin...241006531#2241006531 It's all good, as the Americans would say. | |||
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Trust me when I say, "you wont find anyone who has less manners than Hokkaido". Check out how friendly he is on some of his asian posts. http://forums.accuratereloadin...651075531#2651075531 Real winner! | |||
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hokkaido, If you had posed your question a little differently and left out the "cockhead" comment I'm sure you would have received nothing but well mannered responses but I think you had already made up your mind about the answer to your inquiry and that came through clearly. To answer your question the hunt you described is perfectly legal in a number of places. Personally I have hunted from an elevated machan for lion and consider it one of the highlights of my hunting career. Spending the night knowing that lions are close by and in fact under the tree your in is a thrill like no other. The machan allows you to truly be part of the lions enviroment and offers the client an opportunity to make an good shot on a completely undisturbed lion. I prefer to hunt from the machan where only daylight hunting is allowed but I have no problem with others shooting with the aid of a light were it is legal. If you read the description of shooting lions with a light you will see it is not a slam dunk and in fact can be quite difficult and a bit hairy. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Let me clear a couple of things up here since Bukkake aka hokkaido can't be honest in his inquiry. First to those on this forum, The person he is inquiring about is me and the hunt was my hunt earlier this year in the Save with Glen. I made the mistake of opening his thread on the Asian forum about some deer he shot, after reading the thread it became clear that he was a complete prick, anyone that asked him the details were rudely informed that the details were not important because they would never be able to meet the requirements, navigate the system, be able to hunt in Japan or be able to "fill the top ten slots of the SCI record book" like Bukkake had. I watched him call them derogatory names, insult their intelligence, hunting abilities, etc.. In general he just rellished in rubbing some privelege he thought he had anp presumed others wanted in their faces. Well earlier last week I saw the thread was at the top and checked it, Bukkake was being a prick, true to his form, I was in a particularly sour mood and began kicking him in the balls and frankly, I found it quite therapeutic. Bukakke, to answer your question. I wasn't in an elevated blind, I was in a 4' deep hole in the ground with lions walking within arms reach of me. I would have gladly shot him out of our tree blind but the male was not coming to that bait. I also did not have the advantage of using "artificial light" to shoot my cat, anytime we turned a light on the cat disapeared faster than you could blink. My lion was shot in the dark after a tense period of trying to estimate where I needed to shoot in relation to finding my crosshairs. It was particularly stressful from the standpoint of knowing that if I miscalculated it would most probably lead to a situation where myself or Glen would get get seriously injured or killed. Kind of like your deer hunting, huh? FYI, I would have jumped at the chance to use the spotlight we had or the reostat as it would have been much safer. As far as your "inside line", I doubt that as the people present were a very close friend of mine Glen and myself, so I guess that makes you a liar, but we already knew that didn't we? In closing, this is a great forum if you are interested in learning about some of the greatest hunting on this planet, but for you to come over hear and misrepresent your intentions, lie about what you know, etc. is spewing the same filth you have poisened the asia forum with. So until you grow some hair on your balls and work hard enough to make enough money to do what I and some others on this forum have had the discipline, courage, desire and priviledge to do, keep riding around in your toyota g-wacking every deer you see on the side of the road and keep out of here!! | |||
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Now you're not exactly doing the right thing here either, are you? | |||
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I knew there was something tied to this jerk posting about african hunting! 505-well said. If you want to see what 505 is talking about go to my post, a couple north of this one and check out the link. | |||
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Here you go Ghoober, sorry. | |||
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Yes, all the above mentioned potential situations CAN BE perfectly legal, and ethical. Often lions are hunted from machans (elevated blinds), shooting at night with a light is legal on private land in Zimbabwe, for example. Interestingly though, you immediately call the hunter a "cockhead", and now you want to create some drama over something which you obviously have NO CLUE about, and why???? What's the point?? Go to the political forum or somewhere else if you want to start mud-slinging at someone for no other reason than to simply be a shit disturber! This isn't high school, and most folks here don't have time for this petty crap! Sorry guys if I sound a bit over the top here, but I just can't stand bad mouthing of other hunters, by those that think they know something, but really have no idea. And for no other reason than to TRY and hurt someone's reputation, etc. Its just PATHETIC!!! Stand together, not fight amongst eachother! | |||
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That's not right either. But never mind, you react against another's behaviour with some more of your own mate, it's all good. | |||
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It is no one business how one hunts. As long as it is legal in that country. | |||
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| One of Us |
After reading a few of your responses.. It seems this is a respected and thrilling way to hunt.. Since I didn't know any better I'm glad I asked. | |||
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Perhaps the question should have been how often are lions shot with the help of artificial light in a place where it is illegal and then made to appear otherwise  "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Has anyone asked themselves why there are two sets of standards within the same country?? Is it allowed - and the norm - on private land simply to increase one's chances of success? "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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 +1000 | |||
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Ah, but should we not change what is legal but shouldn't be? If we don't challenge anything 'cause "it's legal" we will always remain with faulty laws  generally speaking of course.... "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Mate, working on that principle, we should also change what is illegal but shouldn't be and then you'd have to create sensible game laws for damn near the entire continent.  I seem to remember something about not cutting a tree, branch or grass in a GR and if that were observed, I doubt there would be a single camp in any GR in the country.  | |||
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Bwanamich - Come on now man, you too are just trying to be a shit disturber, for what?? For more reasons than I am in the mood to type about, likelihood of success in places like the Save Valley Conservancy, where the hunt in question was done, would dwindle GREATLY without night hunting for cats. These areas have MUCH more human pressure, presence, etc, etc, making the cats many times more nocturnal than in most places of Tanzania & Zambia where they often live almost completely undisturbed. And yes, its legal! Legal is the LAW for all of us, personal ethics are for our own individual judgment. Until you've been there and experienced it, commenting on it, carries little weight! | |||
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Steve, you are forgetting the part that reads "....without the written permission from the Director of Wildlife." "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Aaron, I wasn't associating my statement to any specific hunt, hence the addition of the words "generally speaking of course". I do find it very strange that there are two sets of laws for essentially the same thing........ Is it "legal" to do so by ommission or is there a law that specifically states it is legal on private land? A genuine question, as Tz now allows Game Ranching and we are wandering if they are going to adopt similar laws and regs from other SADC countries such as Zim. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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Damn but he'd be a very busy man huh!  | |||
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Whose definition of "legal" are we supposed to adher to? What gives any of us the right to make the final decision of what should and should not be legal? This is actually no different than us travelling to other countries and then criticizing their ways because they are different than ours. | |||
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These "written permissions" are often in the form of a circular - how do you think everyone baits with impunity! "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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More seriously, I don't think there's a single African country that has a completely sensible set of game laws and consequently (IMO) one has to view them as being for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men. As as example that I've used before if every PH in Tanzania stuck rigidly to the rules about what species can be shot in or close to water, virtually no crocs would have been shot since the 1960s or whenever the hell the game laws were written because whoever wrote those game laws forgot to include flatdogs in that list.  | |||
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Exactly correct! With written permission from the director, anything is ok?? | |||
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Steve - Croc IS INCLUDED in the "within 500 meters of permanent water", as a legal animal in TZ. See the 2009 TZ wildlife act. It was "forgotten" originally. Bwanamich - Yes, my understanding of the Zimbabwe "law", is its LEGAL on private land to hunt cats with light, at night. Not just a commonly followed "acceptable rule", as baiting is in TZ. | |||
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Aaron, I haven't bothered to look at the new act because firstly it's such a pain in the arse to get a copy and secondly, I'm probably going to be too busy with other things to get up there much if at all this year. If I do go up, I'll read it before I go...... but I've no doubt they'll be some anomolies in there somewhere. My point about croc & game laws was that it remained 'forgotten' for something like half a century. BTW, you're right about lights etc on private land in Zim. | |||
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in 16 days of hunting lion in the Save, we never saw a male during daylight hours. | |||
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