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The hunting of Leopard with dogs surely has to be condemned as unethical. I can understand longstanding traditions as in the hunting of mountain lion or the European fox, but the use of hounds to disadvantage a Leopard is little more than a modern quick fix method of securing one of Africa’s more difficult species. Leopard is one of the worlds most sought after species because of its very nature, it is wary, tenacious and often requires some hard and clever hunting to secure a good tom. This what makes it one of Africa’s classic game animals? To be chased down by a large pack of specialised curs is hardly cricket, and to advertise this unsavoury practise has already invited unnecessary attention and repercussions from those who are not ‘one of us’. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | ||
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I've never hunted with leopard with dogs, don't particularly want to and indeed PHASA have had a moratorium on it for many years........ but I don't criticise others for doing it and I have no absolutely no idea why you should bring Craig's name into the debate you obviously want to start. As I see it, debate is good but to drag in the name of a highly principled, well known hunter of impeccable reputation (and an all round good bloke) for no good or even apparent reason, is to me at least, bang out of order.  Why not simply title the thread leopard hunting with dogs? - After that title would be more relevent and considerably less controversial and/or insulting. | |||
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Well, there are only two ways that I know off that leoprad can be hunted. Either on bait or by dogs. Can you tell us how they do it in Zambia? | |||
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You have obviously never been involved in what you are trying to talk about and you have no idea. No idea at all. Besides, what the hell does Boddington have to do with your post?? (And ... please don't try and sell me a hunt) Johan | |||
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dang good question! NRA LIFE MEMBER DU DIAMOND SPONSOR IN PERPETUITY DALLAS SAFARI CLUB LIFE MEMBER SCI FOUNDATION MEMBER | |||
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I believe Craig has hunted Leopard with dogs, but I may be wrong. As to hunting Leopards with dogs this is in fact the traditional method of hunting Leopard. To think the Leopard is disadvantaged is the misconception of one that has never hunted them with a good pack of hounds. I mean really which is more sporting giving the cat a good chance to escape or trying to trick him with a free meal and then bushwacking him in the dark of the night (I know some are taken in day light), it almosts sounds like the new american government. | |||
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Fairgame: Keep Craig out of your beef about dogs and leopard hunting. I know where you're going with this. There are many people to take aim at in the African countries, where leopards have been hunted with dogs. Try to start your Sunday off with a little better attitude. | |||
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I have meet Craig talked to him in some detail. Have friend who have known him for yrs. He is a great person with great intigrity. and you sir are an ass | |||
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To me this falls under the catagory of "To Each His Own". I have no problem with it at all,(if that's your cup of tea...but its not mine). To me the real fun of leopard hunting is getting one for my client by using my brains...not a dog's nose. Again, (before the usual verbal attack comes) this is just my personal opinion & preference. I do however realize from past experience that some clients have little or no patience for sitting still in a blind, and a dog hunt my be more suitable to them. I also agree: What does CB have to do with this discusion????  | |||
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TANZ-PH ++111  | |||
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Sorry chaps I thought that was supposed to be tongue in cheek and did not realise it would cause offense. Hence I have changed the title and apologise if the title of my new DVD causes any offense. The debate is hunting ethics. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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you might check into if it's legal to use Craig's name in your title. I do believe it is copy righted | |||
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I believe yo would find Craig's name copy writed | |||
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Steve, you have a way with words..well placed. Ddrhook,so do you, few ,to the point and clear. Bahiti, you are dead on. TANZ-PH " What does CB have..." To each his own" Yes... you too are correct. I hear traditional bow hunters bad mouth wheel bow hunters and they the muzzle loaders. The muzzle loaders rail on inline muzzle loaders and want them banned or seperate season(in States). And so, on and on. Should we go back to the atali? I think all the hunters of the past and current legal diciplines bring something to the table of tradition and enjoyment of the hunt. Dissension works to the advantage of the anti's and too ofter hunters step in the trap. Good hunting however you persue. After all.. is it not the preperation, anticipation,the skills of concirned and all the other aspects that contribue to a good experience that help make us what we are..... hunters. Elton Rambin Mail/Ship: 1802 Horse Hollow Rd. Barksdale, Texas 78828 Phone: 479 461 3656 Ranch: 830-234-4366 Check our Hunt & Class Schedule at www.ftwoutfitters.com 4 Rules of Gun Safety 1/ Treat all guns as though they are loaded. 2/ Never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to shoot. 3/ Do not put your finger on trigger until your sights are on target and you are ready to shoot. 4/ Be sure of your target and safe background. | |||
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Chaps I do not doubt CB's (cannot say his name as it is copywrited) integrity and his contribution to the hunting industry as an ambassador. Saeed your answer is bait and I predict your response will be to question the ethics of this method? This is how Leopard hunting started and therefore I consider it traditional, similar to that of hunting Lion. If we are to hunt with dogs then why restrict this practice to Leopard and Bongo? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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ethics should be saved for the unethical way bunny huggers protray sportmen who love the outdoors and the concervation of all things wild and free. check the game populations where hunting it legal and where it is not legal. start be looking at Kenya since the ban on hunting started. not only the damage to game populations but economics as well. Not to disregard ehtics we do have some unethical people in our sport but we work hard to get rid of them when there activitys become known | |||
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ddrhook, Apart from being an ass (hybrid donkey) it is my opinion that ethics is an extremely important cog of the safari industry. We have already had a good bashing about canned Lion hunting in South Africa which has negatively impacted on hunting as a sport. Next we hunt the worlds most glamorous predator with hounds? Are we not shooting ourselves in the foot? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Fairgame, Why don't you post your real name and your location? Dogs have been used in hunting for 100s of years. Fox, mountain lion, and boar is ok but leopard is not. Baiting is ok but hounds are not? You logic amazes me Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Hounds (they are NOT curs) hunt by scent and not sight. It is one of the oldest hunting partnerships between man and animal. One will find that these hounds are specially bred and very well trained. It is a fair chase method and can be very effective no matter what species of game is hunted in this mannor. I'm all for it, one will find it a good way when a cat is treed or cornered to see if it is a male or female as well. ~Ann   | |||
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we regulate our own we teach ethics to our children, we call a spade a spade if you don't like the truth you know what part of this ass you can kiss. I did not lie i did not disrespect anyone or there ideal's. You used a well respected mans name in and illegal manner if you used his name on the dvd you claim to has produced. Who happens to stand for ethics. on second thought disregaurd my kiss my ass statement and just go fuck yourself | |||
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The Phantom strikes... Man, I need to stop sleeping in on Sunday mornings. It would appear I have missed all the fun part of this one. Hunting Dangerous Game with dogs is thousands of years old. If you look at it from the dog's perspective: they prefer to hunt Dangerous Game with humans as dinner collection agents. Whatever... Rich | |||
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 ++1111 | |||
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I do love to entertain in the am  ask Shakari how many times he offered tea to the keyboard gods this am | |||
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Hunting with hounds is a noble sport and is fine with me. From time immemorial, men have employed hounds to hunt many species, from the lowly hare to the mighty carnivores. In some kinds of hunting, the hounds are loosed before mounted riders, and the horse is employed to good effect as well. The houndsman must be skilled in breeding and training his pack, and skilled as well in handling them. A good pack will demonstrate tremendous "nose," courage, discipline and stamina. Some would condemn and ban this age-old tradition - as the anti-hunters did with fox hunting in the UK. Not me. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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well said ++111 | |||
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If hunting with dogs is too much of an advantage, is it not also an advantage hunting with a rifle? White North | |||
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I certainly agree with the majority here. I've owned coon dogs[in my younger days], and hunted hogs and bear behind hounds. My boy has hunted mountain lion behind dogs. Its great sport, and completely ethical. I LOVE hounds That being said, I've been on this forum for a number of years. I've watched trolls/idiots/peckerwoods[ ] come and go. Where do these BOZO BUTTS come from? Geez, just about the time things get semi back to normal, up jumps another one.....can't we put a bounty on em? Mad Dog | |||
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bounty of 1 dollar for each. and we could support our hunting habits in great style | |||
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fairgame, a mule is a hybrid. An ass is...an ass. Your thread seems so calculated to incite anger that I'll bet Chobe Bushbuck is kicking himself for not thinking of it first. Congrats...happy now? | |||
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Gentlemen, It would seem my opinion is very much my own and not that of the majority. However some of us are straying off the original topic. Can anyone shed any light on the recent ban of hunting Leopards with dog in Namibia? I understand that you can still bait them? Was this decision based on ethics? ddrhook - did you ask me to screw my hybrid donkey? mike - if you want my name and number could you send me a PM darling Andrew Baldry. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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NOOP I clearly told you to GO FUCK YOURSELF wanker | |||
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Even this ridiculous state that I call home lets you hunt bears with dogs. That should tell you something. That said, as a rookie, where can you hunt leopards with dogs other then Namibia? The locations where you cannot, is it a function of the government or just not being feasible in the terrain? Maybe it is dumb of me, but from my point of view hunting and doing business around the west where dogs are a common way to hunt bears and small predators and THE way to hunt Mtn. lions, I did not realize that dogs on predators was that big of controversy*. *Fox hunts in England aside, I do watch the news, so I'm aware it had it's detractors. | |||
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Chasing down a leopard with dogs still results in a treeing, doesn't it? I mean, the cat doesn't try to fight it out on the ground with the dogs,does he? (I assume the hunter always wants an intact pelt) Why is that method so much worse than tempting a cat to bait -and shooting him over it? I always had assumed that hunting with dogs simply was a faster method of getting to shoot a leopard. As one poster noted, to each his own. I freely confess that I have a certain reluctance about using dogs on a hunt for animals,any animal -except rabbits and coons. (All of us think they are fine for birds) -but that's unreasonable on my part. (yes, I do recognize that in bait hunting, the hunter must be very still and often has to make a shot in bad light -but those simply are reasons why I think bait hunting is more sporting. Hunters behind dogs might reasonably beg to differ) | |||
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I think that leopard do sometimes fight it out on the ground with dogs. I recall seeing a video clip either at SCI or DSC where they were hunting leopard with dogs and they cornered him on the ground. He came out through the dogs, and nailed one of the hunters. I am pretty sure they still hunt lion and bobcat here in Texas with dogs, at least I know they used to. | |||
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Andrew Baldry is a troll, a wanker, a peckerwood, an idiot, etc??? You guys are kidding, right? Why, I just can't believe that all of the self annointed "experts" on all things having to do with Africa around here don't know who he is and how his opinions on cat hunting may have been formed. | |||
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jwm, Not sure who you are refering to but i am not prepared to be bullied here. When I joined this site it was on the understanding that it debated topics of hunting interest. This thread is dedicated to 'African Big Game Hunting' and it is of my opinion that the use of dogs has no place in the hunting of Africa's big game. However as it is a debate it would seem that there are many who tend to differ and please note I do not chastise them for their views and really what interests me more is the response to my opinion. Thanks someone for pointing out that I got my ass mixed up with a mule? If an ass is a mule but not a hybrid donkey then what is a troll? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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You will find that not much "debate" is tolerated here. Expression of an opinion divergent from that of the all knowing masses tends to quickly bring out the mob with the torches and pitchforks.  | |||
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Andrew, I was in country when it happened, and have discussed the banning of leopard hunting with a few Namibian professional hunters who are licensed for dangerous game. To my knowledge the MET's decision was NOT based on ethics, at least not entirely. It seems to have been based on, and required by, poor management of the leopard quota. MET were not keeping close track of the numbers of leopards killed, so they were being overshot. As a result, hunting operators were selling next year's quota this year. IMHO, this was partly because of the use of hounds, partly because of unscrupulous and unlicensed operators who were determined to overshoot the quota no matter what, and partly because of bureaucratic ineptitude on the part of MET. Namibian leopard are extremely smart and wary. They have been persecuted by stockmen for decades and some will not go near a bait. The use of hounds increased the success rate on leopard, and the MET did not count on that or change its reporting and monitoring practices to deal with it. Also, there was a clear sense in the industry that unlicensed and unscrupulous operators (largely from RSA) were trying to shoot as many leopards as possible - and many were using hounds to do it - no matter the quota or consequences. That's when NAPHA stepped in and recommended closure, as it seemed the MET did not have the backbone to do it. When the MET did finally step in, they used the typical government sledgehammer to kill the mosquito. They banned leopard hunting with hounds altogether. IMHO, better reporting and oversight was all that was needed, not a complete ban. That is my opinion, informed by discussion of this with knowledgeable Namibian PHs, and by a few months' experience hunting in Namibia for plains and dangerous game both. As an aside, there is no need for the kind of name-calling and childishness that some feel the need to engage in whenever a contentious topic is raised and discussed. Reasonable people should be able to disagree reasonably. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I will tell you there are a lot more unethical people in the Anti hunting and green groups than there will ever be in the hunting fraternity! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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