Bowing to anti-hunters..

MHO...allowing anti-hunters to dictate how you hunt leopard is bowing. Especially when debating hounds vs. baiting. Again MHO !

ledvm,

Nice Buffalo you got there? Shoot it from the car?

Sorry if I seem a bit thick but what is MHO?

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
jwm,

Not sure who you are refering to but i am not prepared to be bullied here. When I joined this site it was on the understanding that it debated topics of hunting interest. This thread is dedicated to 'African Big Game Hunting' and it is of my opinion that the use of dogs has no place in the hunting of Africa's big game.

However as it is a debate it would seem that there are many who tend to differ and please note I do not chastise them for their views and really what interests me more is the response to my opinion.

Thanks someone for pointing out that I got my ass mixed up with a mule?

If an ass is a mule but not a hybrid donkey then what is a troll?

Mate, you will find that not much "debate" is tolerated here. Expression of an opinion divergent from that of the all knowing masses tends to quickly bring out the mob with the torches and pitchforks.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
ledvm,

Nice Buffalo you got there? Shoot it from the car?

Sir,

I shot that buff in Chewore South standing beside Nigel Theisen who is sitting beside the bull in the pic. That should be enough said but just in case it is not enough for you...NO...we tracked up to this bull and shot him in the Jess.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
ledvm,

Nice Buffalo you got there? Shoot it from the car?

Sorry if I seem a bit thick but what is MHO?

More infinite wisdom posted....

That's the way to state your case....

quote:

Sorry if I seem a bit thick but what is MHO?

My Humble Opinion

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mauser93:
Hard to understand how this topic generated such a high level of emotion, with its attendant name-calling.

Martin Luther King - A man who won't die for something is not fit to live.

Sir,

I called no one a name. It is the thought (in the original post) that I thought was stupid. I wish you the best! I disagree that hunting leopard with dogs is bad.

quote:

Nice Buffalo you got there? Shoot it from the car?

I will add that with a post like that...you gotta expect "fightin' words" to follow!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Nice Buffalo you got there? Shoot it from the car?

I will add that with a post like that...you gotta expect "fightin' words" to follow!

Exactly my point you probably hunted it hard and proper.

quote:

Exactly my point you probably hunted it hard and proper.

Yes...but like I said...I am an old houndsman. Some of the hardest "most proper" hunts I have been on have been behind hounds. Much more work than sitting in a blind watching a bait while reading a book.

And, of course, to be extra sporting you can just use the pack of dogs to run the Leopard into a cave and THEN run him out with firecrackers...........(I don't give a damn whether the sycophants like my posts or not)

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Exactly my point you probably hunted it hard and proper.

Yes...but like I said...I am an old houndsman. Some of the hardest "most proper" hunts I have been on have been behind hounds. Much more work than sitting in a blind watching a bait while reading a book.

Lane - Come on now, you gotta admit a few things about hunting with hounds. But first, don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of it and enjoy it myself. Fact is though, the true hunters are the dogs, not the "hunters". And yes, I have done it numerous times and loved it. In fact hunting with hounds has evolved through technology just like everything else, to the point to where houndsmen even have GPS tracking collars on the dogs. Just follow the arrow!!! No question, hunting behind dogs can and is physically demanding, especially hunting mtn lion in 18" of snow at 9,000 feet elevation. Fact is though, the dogs do the hunting, the hunters follow, and shoot the darn thing out of the tree as the lion sits there patiently waiting to get shot! Obviously leopard can be a different story as they are often aggressive when the hunters approach. I enjoy the hunt because I like to see the dogs work, I think its exciting when you have a skilled pack of dogs that are capable of tracking Mtn lion/leopard through all types of terrain, etc. But to say its HARD hunting is not really accurate, IMO.

Sure, sitting in the blind is also easy, any moron can do that. But by that point all of the real hunting expertise has already been done by the "hunter". Picking proper bait sites, along with proper baiting, choice of blind location versus where you think the leopard is coming and going from, etc, etc. All of this is skill, experience and expertise on the part of the professional hunter that leads completely to the success or failure of the hunt. Although Andrew is doing a poor job of explaining himself, I think that's what he's trying to say, and I agree. To kill a big tom leopard under these circumstances is really a big accomplishment on behalf of the hunter himself. Where hound hunting success depends much more on the ability of the dogs to do their job, not so much that of the hunter. No, hunting leopard over bait is not HARD, but it is one of the ultimate rewards to the group, because success was 100% dependent on their abilities and choices, not a pack of dogs.

Hound hunting IMO is much more exciting, I cannot wait to do it again, and I would hate to see it abolished. However, taking a big leopard over bait, in the day light, is the ultimate degree of success on behalf of the hunter and his PH. Of course, just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Exactly my point you probably hunted it hard and proper.

Yes...but like I said...I am an old houndsman. Some of the hardest "most proper" hunts I have been on have been behind hounds. Much more work than sitting in a blind watching a bait while reading a book.

Lane - Come on now, you gotta admit a few things about hunting with hounds. But first, don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of it and enjoy it myself. Fact is though, the true hunters are the dogs, not the "hunters".

Isn't that the case with all hunting by foreign clients in Africa? The true hunters are the trackers and the "hunter" is merely a paying shooter?

Harris - I think it depends greatly on the experience of the hunter. The "trackers" are certainly skilled at tracking and some aspects of the hunt, but no question in my opinion the PH is generally the most skilled "hunter" of the group. I've seen the trackers want to do some things that just left me and the PH shaking our heads in total dis-belief. I enjoy their company, and greatly appreciate all their help, but if the hunt was conducted by them, I would never go!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Harris:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Exactly my point you probably hunted it hard and proper.

Yes...but like I said...I am an old houndsman. Some of the hardest "most proper" hunts I have been on have been behind hounds. Much more work than sitting in a blind watching a bait while reading a book.

Lane - Come on now, you gotta admit a few things about hunting with hounds. But first, don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of it and enjoy it myself. Fact is though, the true hunters are the dogs, not the "hunters".

Isn't that the case with all hunting by foreign clients in Africa? The true hunters are the trackers and the "hunter" is merely a paying shooter?

The PH is usually a jack of all trades and the client pays his wages. In theory he is employed by the client and is there to guide him in the right direction. Some PH's tell big stories for a living others are exceptional trackers and I know a few who can occasionally shoot straight. Being a PH is not glamerous. It is an extremely stressful occupation, no insurance company will touch you and for the most you are considered a social outcast.

Some of my best friends have been dogs. I even married one.

quote:

Lane - Come on now, you gotta admit a few things about hunting with hounds.

quote:

Fact is though, the true hunters are the dogs, not the "hunters".

Hi Aaron,

I have a slightly different opinion...imagine that!

One does not just lolly-gag out to the Bush, kick out the dogs, and shoot a leopard from the top of a tree.

It takes good tracking to know you are putting your dogs on a good Tom that made the track in the very recent past.

Listening to the hounds and knowing what they are doing takes a lot of skill and practice.

Anticipating "how they will run" takes experience so the PH and the client don't take hours to to get the the "bay" or the "tree".

You will shooting a leopard full of adrenaline that is anticipating your arrival.

The cat will likely NOT be lying broadside on a tree-limb munching merrily on a haunch of impala.

You may have to shoot very quickly at a moving target equivalent to a human scalp mower so you better be a good shot.

You may have to hustle up the hounds to get there before the cat "breaks tree" or "breaks Bay"...so you had better be in decent shape.

All of these thing add of to a more hunter preparedness hunt than sitting in a blind.

Don't get me wrong...I am for doing both...just think hound hunting is the better hunt and don't want to see it trashed.

quote:

The PH is usually a jack of all trades and the client pays his wages. In theory he is employed by the client and is there to guide him in the right direction. Some PH's tell big stories for a living others are exceptional trackers and I know a few who can occasionally shoot straight. Being a PH is not glamerous. It is an extremely stressful occupation, no insurance company will touch you and for the most you are considered a social outcast.

Hmmm...sounds a lot like a horse surgeon!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Hmmm...sounds a lot like a horse surgeon!!!

But less well paid!



Sorry about that buddy, but I just couldn't resist it!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Hmmm...sounds a lot like a horse surgeon!!!

But less well paid!



Sorry about that buddy, but I just couldn't resist it!

Yep...I just hope to climb to that pay scale someday!!!

quote:

Sorry about that buddy, but I just couldn't resist it!

Hey Steve,

NO apology necessary here...I know I am just a poor ole dumb country boy!

On this forum we do have multiple opinions and express them freely,, the most being civil. We argue all day about best cartidge, bullet type, double versus us bolt trash,, yep, I know what I am. When you throw in the "ethics" word, it gets very personal, and heated. I do not try and push my hunting ethics and traditions on anyone and I am not critical of others for theirs.
Am I unethical because i raised and trained english setters to hunt quail? pheasant? etc.? Certainly much harder to try and track those little buggers without a dog? Did I enjoy watching the dogs work,, tremendously! Watching dogs work birds, coons, wild pigs, cats, what's the difference. Nothing but your personal feelings on the matter, and being personall,, most of us keep those opinions to ourselves.

Would I personally hunt leopards over dogs,,, no way,,, not because I would not enjoy it but I am physically unable to keep up with the dogs. Being somewhat physically handicaped with a injured leg,, I can walk but no way I can run, I do stay physically conditioned to the maximum that the body will allow...Guess what,, as a bow hunter you stepped on my bad leg as well,,,,I would not personally hunt DG with a bow but I am not critical of those who do. I am every bit as proficient with my bow as I am with a gun. I have lost more animals with a gun than I have with a bow... Why,, I seldom try to exceed the limits of what my bow will do,, but with a gun anyone can try to make that long shot or the shot in the bush.

What I would want to hear from you with your experience is about some of the animals and hunts and experiences that we could learn from,, not your attempt to stir up emotional issues,,,,,give us the photos and hunt stories,,

drwes,

Thought your bit to this thread was good but remember we are talking African big game. You will note that I am not responsible for stirring up emotional issues. Apparently the trolls are responsible for that? In my dictionary a troll is an ugly little loudmouth who hides under bridges shouting abuse to those who dare to cross to the otherside.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Lane - Come on now, you gotta admit a few things about hunting with hounds.

quote:

Fact is though, the true hunters are the dogs, not the "hunters".

Hi Aaron,

I have a slightly different opinion...imagine that!

One does not just lolly-gag out to the Bush, kick out the dogs, and shoot a leopard from the top of a tree.

It takes good tracking to know you are putting your dogs on a good Tom that made the track in the very recent past.

Listening to the hounds and knowing what they are doing takes a lot of skill and practice.

Anticipating "how they will run" takes experience so the PH and the client don't take hours to to get the the "bay" or the "tree".

You will shooting a leopard full of adrenaline that is anticipating your arrival.

The cat will likely NOT be lying broadside on a tree-limb munching merrily on a haunch of impala.

You may have to shoot very quickly at a moving target equivalent to a human scalp mower so you better be a good shot.

You may have to hustle up the hounds to get there before the cat "breaks tree" or "breaks Bay"...so you had better be in decent shape.

All of these thing add of to a more hunter preparedness hunt than sitting in a blind.

Don't get me wrong...I am for doing both...just think hound hunting is the better hunt and don't want to see it trashed.

Lane - You have a different opinion than me, NO WAY!!!! I totally agree with you on one point, I don't want to see it trashed or abolished either. I just get more personal satisfaction out of the baiting method, that's all!! Like I said, I know Andrew very well, and although his posts come off a bit harsh, you would enjoy sharing time with him on safari, I guarantee it.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Lane - Come on now, you gotta admit a few things about hunting with hounds.

quote:

Fact is though, the true hunters are the dogs, not the "hunters".

Hi Aaron,

I have a slightly different opinion...imagine that!

One does not just lolly-gag out to the Bush, kick out the dogs, and shoot a leopard from the top of a tree.

It takes good tracking to know you are putting your dogs on a good Tom that made the track in the very recent past.

Listening to the hounds and knowing what they are doing takes a lot of skill and practice.

Anticipating "how they will run" takes experience so the PH and the client don't take hours to to get the the "bay" or the "tree".

You will shooting a leopard full of adrenaline that is anticipating your arrival.

The cat will likely NOT be lying broadside on a tree-limb munching merrily on a haunch of impala.

You may have to shoot very quickly at a moving target equivalent to a human scalp mower so you better be a good shot.

You may have to hustle up the hounds to get there before the cat "breaks tree" or "breaks Bay"...so you had better be in decent shape.

All of these thing add of to a more hunter preparedness hunt than sitting in a blind.

Don't get me wrong...I am for doing both...just think hound hunting is the better hunt and don't want to see it trashed.

Lane - You have a different opinion than me, NO WAY!!!! I totally agree with you on one point, I don't want to see it trashed or abolished either. I just get more personal satisfaction out of the baiting method, that's all!! Like I said, I know Andrew very well, and although his posts come off a bit harsh, you would enjoy sharing time with him on safari, I guarantee it.

Aaron could you advertise croc with dogs in Luangwa?

Andrew - And you wonder why everyone is giving you such a hard time here on AR!! Crocs with dogs?? You better bring a whole lotta dogs.

What about hippo?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
What about hippo?

I don't think you could train a pack of hippo to hunt crocs.

I'm on record early in this thread as preferring not to hunt leopard behind dogs (if I ever had the chance). I have since remembered some horror stories my Zim PH told me about mambas coming up to or even into a leopard blind. As an ardent snake hater -bring on the dogs!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
What about hippo?

I don't think you could train a pack of hippo to hunt crocs.

They might "gum em a bit"!!!

Brett

Andrew,
This thread has definitely brought the mobs out and rightly so. I respect your opinion, if hunting leopards with dogs is not fairgame or ethical to you you would be a hypocrite if you went against your ethical convictions but DON'T condemn other hunters who do not have that same conviction. Problem is that you've taken a stance that labels all others that do hunt leopards with dogs as unethical, that sir is bias and BS.

Twenty plus years ago I used to talk down about bow hunters who used a compound bow because I believed true bows were recurves and longbows. I will not take my convictions and talk bad about any of my brothers in the hunting fraternity who are hunting according to the game laws in the state or country they hunt in, we're divided enough as it is and the antihunters are doing a great job of taking our hunting rights away without your help or mine.

dirklawyer,

Good point. How did you take your leopard?

the anonymous fairgame,

not to hijack the thread, but where are you on using dating services? I think they make it easier to get laid on the first date, but I have no personal experience. So, will have to rely on my friends here to fill me in...

Rich

fairgame, I do look forward to when everyone gets out of their chairs and gets back to the bush to give us their hunting reports we thirst for. I have no pashion for hunting the cats,,, just not one of my drives,, just like I am not a bear hunter,, but I have friends that live for it,,, to each his own. I do love to hear about their hunts and experiences. That is what will put you up a notch in my book,, not that you give a dang, but I want to hear about some of your hunts this year,, the highs,, the lows,, the good the bad and the ugly.. i will sit back and wait, good hunting

The toughest challenge would be to hunt wolves with a six pack of lynx.

In deference to those who prefer more or fewer than six in their packs, I probably should have said "a pack of lynx'" or "a pack of lynx's."

But I wasn't sure, although I did think I knew, but I'm just not quite certain, what the plural of lynx is.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
The toughest challenge would be to hunt wolves with a six pack of lynx.

In deference to those who prefer more or fewer than six in their packs, I probably should have said "a pack of lynx'" or "a pack of lynx's."

But I wasn't sure, although I did think I knew, but I'm just not quite certain, what the plural of lynx is.

Lynxi of course!!!

Brett

PS. I believe lynx's is possesive not plural.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

Lynxi of course!!!

Brett

PS. I believe lynx's is possesive not plural.

"Despite an expensive and lengthy education I still can't spell!"

Apparently, one need not be a spelling bee winner in order to be the grammar police.

The proper use of an apostrophe has frequently eluded me, yet I know you are right.

But a "pack of lynxi" sounds to me like imported beer.

Lynxus???

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

Lynxi of course!!!

Brett

PS. I believe lynx's is possesive not plural.

"Despite an expensive and lengthy education I still can't spell!"

Apparently, one need not be a spelling bee winner in order to be the grammar police.

The proper use of an apostrophe has frequently eluded me, yet I know you are right.

But a "pack of lynxi" sounds to me like imported beer.

Well, as most of us on this forum do not have the Queen's Englsih as our first language, mistakes in the English language are expected.

Of course, the major culprit in this regard are our friends from North America.

Who have had a few hundred years to slaughter the English language.

And they have done a mighty fine job of it too, if I might add.