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i'm sure everyone knows of the world record tusks, currently residing in London. I was just wondering if anyone knows where i could find a copy of the famous photo of the two men holding the tusks outside a door? Regards, S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9pI&feature=youtu.be "Where is an elephant's sexual organs? on its feet because if it steps on you you're fu*ked" | ||
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Thanks, i now have a photo on my blog. Regards, S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9pI&feature=youtu.be "Where is an elephant's sexual organs? on its feet because if it steps on you you're fu*ked" | |||
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I have seen the "record" tusks in London and I am convinced that they are not the same pair that are shown in that famous picture. To me they differ in many ways.  | |||
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 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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That is stunning. | |||
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Where are they in London? Natural History museum? | |||
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Picture of the tusks, or others that are also BIG   The link below has some good information on Elephants African Elephants Cheers, Peter | |||
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Peter, Those pics you posted are of the world record tusks that are owned by the Natural History Museum in London and I had the pleasure of handling them (on that very table in your first pic) back in the early nineties or so (about a year or two before they went back on public display)......... I'm not 100% convinced they're the same tusks as in the original picture though. Seems to me that the ones in the original pic are more symmetrical than the world record ones. Guess I could be wrong though. | |||
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As I stated a few posts back, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the tusks on display in the museum, pictured above, are not the same as those in the other picture, taken at the turn of the last century in Zanzibar. They are clearly different in many ways, not even similar.  | |||
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John, Sorry Bwana.... I missed your comment but definately agree with it!  Having seen the ones in the Natural History Museum I have my doubts they're a pair from the same animal. What did you think? | |||
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I reckon you nailed that one on the head Steve ! | |||
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Those are spectacular. Here's a story of mastodon tusks recently found. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19983852/  Steve "He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin Tanzania 06 Argentina08 Argentina Australia06 Argentina 07 Namibia Arnhemland10 Belize2011 Moz04 Moz 09 | |||
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Steve, I would be willing to concede that the ones in the museum are from the same animal, they have the same patina, however as we have both stated they bear no similarity to the ones in the Zanzibar photo. Have a look at the diameter of the Zanzibar tusks compared to the hands of the men holding them. I have been up close and personal with the museum pair and there is NO way they are that big. Not to mention the obvious difference in shape, contour etc. Mind you, they are a very impressive pair of teeth, regardless. | |||
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What's the story behind the picture? | |||
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More info on the TUSKS Cheers, Peter -------------------- They could have been called Galogalo Kafonde's tusks, or Winston Guest's, or MacArthur's, for that matter. All three were involved with them one way or another. So, too, were Bror von Blixen and the aviatrix Beryl Markham. It doesn't really matter as all of these principal actors are now dust. The tusks were sold to the American Museum of Natural History in 1937, and at 189 and 178 pounds respectively, they are the biggest known to have come out of Kenya. The largest confirmable African elephant tusks are in the British Museum of Natural History in London and weigh, respectively, 226 1/2 and 214 pounds. According to John Millard, they came from a small volcanic crater called Legumishira, on the northwestern slopes of Kilimanjaro, late in the 1800s. John should know because nearly a century later Legumishira was on his land. The largest tusks ever taken by a sportsman weighed 198 and 174 pounds; that elephant was shot by Powell-Cotton on the shores of Lake Albert in Uganda near the turn of the twentieth century. Next in size comes a Tanzanian pair that was taken in 1971 and weighed 192 and 189 pounds. Not far behind is a pair from the Malawi border, which weighed 185 and 183 pounds, from an elephant killed by H. Manners in 1953. In the twentieth century, several million elephants died at the hand or through the influence of man, yet less than half a dozen yielded tusks that individually weighed more than 180 pounds. Out of two hundred or so elephants shot annually on license in Kenya between 1925 and 1970, on average maybe five had tusks that weighed more than 100 pounds apiece. In every five years, maybe four had tusks heavier than 120 pounds. In every twenty, there might … Below is an article from Sports Illustrated -------------------------------------------- June 04, 1956 The Biggest Elephant Ever Killed By Man In the dense, wild bush of Angola, in Africa, a hunter tracks and kills the largest animal ever shot on earth Jose Fenykovi A VAST EXPANSE OF ANIMAL There the enormous elephant lay on his side, amidst the carnage of blood, broken trees and trampled brush that had marked his last struggles. When I let my eyes roam over his vast expanse I could hardly believe that any animal could be so big, and T understood why it had taken so many heavy-caliber bullets to finish him off. And when I got out my tape measure and stretched it to cover his huge dimensions, I knew that I had not been wrong: this was the biggest land animal ever brought down with a gun. But before giving the measurements, I must confess the shock we got when I put the tape across my elephant's foot and found that it measured, instead of the three feet of the spoor we had been following all day, only a little over two feet. The measurement was still a world record, but it was a foot short of the track size I had first noted a year before beside the lake. When we began to examine the body, we soon understood why: Besides the 16 bullets from our own rifles, we found a strange slug embedded in the left front leg. It was not a modern bullet, but a piece of iron shot, the kind used in old muzzle-loading flintlock rifles. It had crippled him in the left front leg, so that the step he took with that foot was shorter than normal. As the animal ran, the left hind foot partially superimposed its print over the front one—making it look much bigger than it actually was. That was the only measurement that failed to live up to expectations. Here are the dimensions, the accuracy of which are supported by an affidavit sworn to before the president of the Angola Game Commission and legalized by the U.S. consul in Luanda, the capital; where available, I have listed in parentheses the comparable measurements of Lawrence G. Thaw's world-record-setting elephant, taken from Records of Big Game (Rowland Ward, London, 10th Edition, 1935): Height From ground to withers, 13 feet 2 inches. (Thaw's elephant: 12 feet 2 inches.) Length From trunk tip to tail tip in straight line, 27 feet 6� inches; whole skin from trunk tip to tail tip, 33 feet 2 inches. Length of feet Front, 2 feet; rear, 2 feet 1� inches. (Thaw's elephant: one foot 9 inches, which foot not specified.) Circumference of feet Front, 5 feet 7� inches; rear 5 feet 2� inches. Circumference of body At widest point, 19 feet 8 inches. The herculean task of skinning the beast and loading the skin, the skull with tusks and the bones with front and rear legs, onto the power wagon for the long trip back to civilization was accomplished with difficulty and sweat, but with plenty of enthusiasm. The skin alone weighed over two tons. All of these parts are now in my Madrid factory, which is fortunately large. My home is already crowded with trophies of all kinds—lion skins, elephant tusks and feet—but anyway, I do not think this elephant belongs in a private collection. I have decided to let a big museum have him. There, reconstructed by their experts, he can stand in all the size and majesty he enjoyed in life—the biggest elephant ever shot by man. | |||
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I thought they were the same tusks in the first picture, but after looking again, they are shorter. | |||
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Great story Peter, however as stated above by a couple of us, the tusks in the British museum, whilst magnificent, are NOT the world record tusks pictured in the old photo taken in Zanaibar, at the start of this post. | |||
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John, I think you'll find that the world record ones in the National History Museum are the world record ones but not the same ones in that first pic..... I might be wrong but I think those tusks were never entered into the books and instead were sold and cut up for commercial purposes. I know there's a good story to it but can't for the life of me remember what it is.... I have a friend up the road who used to be an ivory dealer and I'll try to get hold of him tomorrow and ask if he knows the story. | |||
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I seem to remember reading that the WR tusks were separated and sold and one was rescued in the nick of time from a cutlery manufacturer or similar and then the two were bought back together..... hence the doubt that the two tusks were from the same elephant. I also have a niggling idea that the ones in the first pic also had an unusual story to them. Guess I must be getting old if I don't remember that kind of thing any more.  | |||
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Steve, you are right, they were separated for some 30 years or so. One ended up in America for quite some time. The one that resided with the cutlery manufacturer was never in danger of being chopped up, mercifully. However, I believe that the Zanzibar photo is that of the "Kilamanjaro" ele tusks, that are the world record. They are clearly larger than the ones in the museum, look at the circumference/diameter of the ones in the old photo compared to the hands of the guys holding them. If the museum tusks are the world record, it just means that there was once a larger pair. | |||
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John, I think you're right about the Zanzibar photo being that of the "Kilamanjaro" ele tusks but to the best of my knowledge they were never entered into the RW record book....... If they had been, I'd expect them to make number one. I know Jane visits here occasionally and with a bit of luck, she'll be able to fill in the blanks.  | |||
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Mate, I find the whole story fascinating, anything you can dredge up would be greatly appreciated. The one anomaly is that the Museum clearly states that the tusks on show ARE those of the Kilamanjaro ele. Confusing isn't it? I'm sure Jane Halse or your friend, the ivory dealer, will be able to shed some light on this mystery. | |||
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If someone living near the American Museum of National History can (grease the palms) and get a personal trip down to the VAULT maybe you can see the record ?? Anyhow the plot thickens .. The American Museum of Natural History in New York is one of the best-loved museums in the United States. Some four million people come through its doors every year. They marvel at the dinosaur skeletons, the meteorites, the elephants and the gems. And yet less than five percent of the Museum’s collections are on display. Beyond the exhibition halls, along seemingly endless corridors, basement rooms, attic vaults and locked cabinets, the Museum houses a veritable stockpile of world records: the biggest elephant tusks, the finest uncut emerald, the world’s smallest beetle, millions of spiders, butterflies, dinosaur bones, whales, diamonds, gold masks, gigantic rubies, thousands of mummies, shrunken heads, and much more. THIS PAIR BELOW are OK as well To honor his grandfather's legacy, Incline Village resident and local dentist Dr. William Cherry donated a pair of antique elephant tusks on Monday to the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County that his grandfather, an explorer, brought back to the U.S. from Africa in the late 1800s. Cherry's grandfather, William Stamps Cherry, was the owner of the largest collection of antique African artifacts of its kind in the world. Most of the collection has been in archive at the Los Angeles museum for more than 75 years. On Monday morning, the elephant tusks - weighing 332 pounds together, measuring more than eight feet long and appraised at $835,000 - were taken by museum officials from Cherry's home in Incline to complete the collection. "There's really no point in having them (at my house in Incline) where no one can enjoy them except us and a few friends," Cherry said. The tusks were taken from the Central African Republic in 1897 and are the fourth-largest pair on record in the world. Of the four largest pairs, Cherry's tusks are the oldest documented on record and the only pair from North of the Equator - making them the largest pair in North America. As Cherry recounted stories he heard and journal entries written by his grandfather, he noted that the elephant killed for the tusks was probably 80 years old. "He was the largest my grandfather had ever seen and the largest the natives had ever seen - and the natives go back generations," Cherry said. Cherry said his grandparents were married under the arch of the tusks, and when he was a child, the tusks were stored under his bed at times. Though he never met his grandfather, who was lost at sea in 1927, Cherry said his grandmother told him countless stories of his fascinating ancestor. "Reading about him as a kid, he was my hero," Cherry said. "We just kind of took it for granted - like everyone had a relative like this - until we went to the Museum of Natural History and saw grandfather's collection." Friends of Cherry recounted the artifacts' value. "Although they do have a very large fair-market value, they are priceless in many other respects, such as in their scientific and historical values," said Incline resident Bill Casey, Cherry's friend and the author of two books on William Stamps Cherry. "The tusks are a primary artifact linking the explorer of yesteryear and his times to today's world. From the turn of the 20th century, when most all of central Africa was still being referred to as 'The Dark Continent', to the dawn of the 21st century, items such as large, antique elephant tusks serve as reminders of how far we have come since then in our understanding of Africa and its diverse people." Cheers, Peter | |||
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Bala Bala thanks for the info enjoyed reading that and the pictures. | |||
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thanks for all the interest lads Regards, S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9pI&feature=youtu.be "Where is an elephant's sexual organs? on its feet because if it steps on you you're fu*ked" | |||
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Sidney, Some interesting stuff on your blog. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I've also been fortunate to actually touch the big tusks in the British Museum. I am more prone to believe they are they most likely the same tusks as in the old photos (some stain markings on the tusks do look the simular, and one must remember that those gentlemen holding the tusks could have easily been quite small in stature, making the tusks look bigger). This year myself and a hunting client were in Zanzibar and after some searching found what we believe to be that same carved door in the old tusk photos, and stood in front for pictures. I will try to find the photos and compare our known sizes to that of the door. Most everything I have reseached on the "Kilimanjaro elephant" suggests these are more than likely the same pair as in the museum. From Moore's book "Ivory Scourge of Africa"(1931): he writes: "Never again in all likelihood will a patriarch of the herds yield a pair to equal those from the old bull shot by Shundi's slave with a muzzle loader at the base of Kilimanjaro in 1898. they weighed 228 & 232 pounds, together nearly a quater of a ton; and measured nearly 24 feet long placed end to end. The then Zanzibar agent of the writer's firm bought them for a thousand pounds sterling - nearly five thousand dollars-the greatest price that has ever been paid for the tusks of a single elephant. The slave who shot the animal said that as the elephant stood, his tusks almost reached the ground, so long were they and so much their weight bowed down the old fellow's head. He was not a big elephant; but he had the high shoulders and sloped away in the back "like a hyena", the kind the old arabs in Zanzibar always said carried the heaviest ivory. The tusks made a great sensation not only in the East African world, but in Europe & America as well. They were exhibited in Tiffany's windows in New York, and Shillings tells us in his book how he was commissioned to buy them on behalf of a German museum, but failed. After much traveling and exhibiting, one of the great pair found a resting place in the British Museum of Natural History in South Kensington; the other passed into the hands of ivory cutters in Sheffeld, who it is understood, have it in their private collection. As to whether these are the largest tusks ever secured from an elephant we can not be quite sure. Burton in 1872, spoke of hearing of a pair weighing approximatly 280 pounds each, that had been sent from Mozambique to the king of Portugal, and Von Hohnel tells us that his ivory trader guide, Jumbe Kimemeta, knew of a tusk which weighed 264 pounds. But at any rate, the two Kilimanjaro tusks are the largest of which there is any generally accepted record." Commander David Enderby Blunt had this to say in 1933: "The heaviest tusks ever known are supposed to have been found near Mt. Kilimanjaro. They were bought by an American firm in Zanzibar and sent to the well known firm of Landsberger, Humble & Co. of 15 Bevis Marks, E.C. 3, whose Mr. Humble very kindly gave me the facts and the photograph of these, the biggest teeth in the world. The larger one acquired by the British Museum and the other by a cutlery firm in Sheffeld, Messrs Joseph Rodgers & Son, who put it in their private museum. The weights of the tusks were 236 lbs & 225 lbs. From their appearence it was doubted if they were from the same animal". The last sentence I find quite interesting coming from such a fundi on elephant hunting as Blunt. | |||
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Another quote regarding the Kili elephant tusks.. Frank Carpenter, Uganda to Cape (1924) "The heaviest elephant tusk of which there is any record is in the British museum of Nat. History. it is more than 10 feet long and weighs 226 lbs*. The longest and most beautiful tusks in existance are said to be a pair from an elephant more than 11 feet tall that was shot near the southern border of Abyssinia. They were for a time in the possession of King Menelik of that country, and were later taken to the United States. The longer measures 11' 5 1/2"and has circumference of 18 inches". * Rowland Ward World record elephant tusk: 226 lbs 10' 2 1/2" with circ. of 24 1/4" and lists it from Mt Kilimanjaro, East africa, 1898 Owner "British Museum". | |||
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As I have stated before I do not believe that the tusks in the museum are the same ones as those pictured in the old Zanzibar photo. The tapers, curves/contours, etc are totally different.  | |||
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well John, you may well be right. however, I'm still leaning towards the idea that they are indeed they same, (BUT, not 100% sure). There does seem to be some confusion surrounding these magnificent tusks... I will say, that many quotes from the early books (written 2 - 3 decades after the elephant was killed) show the same zanzibar door photo and they all say those tusks are "in british museum". so unless the british museum somehow switched the tusks with another equally huge pair...I dont see how these early sources can all be wrong? BTW: I just checked my copy of Tony Sanchez great book "Elephants, Ivory & Hunters". Tony gives in great detail the story of these record tusks, and how they ended up in the British Museum. Tony obviously believes the tusks in the Museum are one and the same as the ones in the old photograph. He shows the same Zanzibar photo with the caption: "The World record tusks, originally 226 & 235 pounds, outside the carved teakwood doorway of ED Moore's house, Zanzibar". | |||
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They appear to be the very same tusks to me. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Mate, I think that picture shows that the museum tusks have quite different compound curves. I am not doubting that the museum, somewhere in its vaults, probably has the world record tusks. I just don't think those on show are the correct ones. | |||
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this single tusk photo posted, may/may not be the same tusk as the zanzibar door/museum tusks....I added it for history's sake. I 100% agree with you my friend that the tusks do appear to be of (slightly) different shape (although in BOTH photos one tusk is clearly longer & straighter; one shorter and more curved). however, tusks viewed from differant angles, even slight, may appear different shape. (EA ivory being oval shape). bear in mind,the "door" photo is 1800's photography, which lacks detail like curve shine, etc. the photography being rather flat, compared to modern photos. this may explain. Regards size change: Sanchez say they lost 21 lbs total in 64 years (from 1898 to 1962) but I dont think this would make them appear any smaller (how much they lost in the next 49 years is questionable; probably not much) My conclusion is the 2 gents in the photo are very small men (I checked a photo of myself & client standing at what we feel is the same door in zanzibar. we are both 6' tall. We appear much bigger compared to the door, than these two men do). I'm not much for conspiracy theories, and I cant see a reason why there would be a deceitful cover up by the British museum??? The tusks were weighed/measured and cataloged by the museum curators in 1962. Any historical provenance was also cataloged. The debate may continue, but hopefully someone can shed more light on the World Record tusks. | |||
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I know this is only hearsay, but when I saw thee tusks in the museum one of the employees/attendants was wandering around. My business partner had just returned from Africa and we commented to the staff member that we were somewhat disappointed with the size off the tusks, thinking they would be much bigger. His comment went something like........"Oh we have a bigger pair downstairs". The mystery continues. | |||
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well thats quite interesting John! Thanks.  its been many years since I seen the tusks in england. Perhaps if somebody knows someone who works in the museum, they can snap a pic on their cellphone, then we can know the truth. If the pair in the old photo is a different pair, then they are still out there somewhere. they were simply too big to have been cut up. | |||
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There is no doubt that the pair on display are magnificent, but as I have said, what bothers me is their "shape" does not bear any resemblance to those in the old photographs. They also have much more taper towards the tip than those in the pictures and that's not something that can be caused by camera angle. I could be wrong though, it's happened before. | |||
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Just been looking over my old posts, and i agree that the Natural History Museum's tusks do not look the same as the ones in the old pictures but to do them justice you really need someone next to them to give one an idea of their size Regards, S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9pI&feature=youtu.be "Where is an elephant's sexual organs? on its feet because if it steps on you you're fu*ked" | |||
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