And I guess that's his way of saying "Thanks"

Steve- Thank you -- my bad -- to those that contributed info as to the subject of the 375 Ultra in specific --THANK YOU -- to those that chose to bang the negative drum on Big Green -- BOO - HISS-- !
Now is that better ? ---

This 375H&H vs. 375RUM confuses me; I don’t understand why an extra 200fps at any distance isn’t a good thing. With modern bullets like the GS custom FN solid penetration should be deeper with the extra velocity. The permanent wound channel should be larger, and the hydrostatic shock should be greater.
I think the arguments about recoil, and ammo availability, just Red Herrings. I’m just a want Abe African Hunter so would some one with greater experience explain why the 375H&H is better below is list of other rounds that have a 200fpr difference in their velocity I think few people would say that the slower of the parings would be a superior killer.


.375cal 300gr
375H&H----------2500fps
375RUM----------2700fps

.35cal 250gr
358 Norma -------2700fps
35 Whelan-------2500fps

.338cal 250gr
338-06----------2500fps
338win mag------2700fps

.338cal 225 gr
338-06----------2600fps
338win mag------2800fps


308cal 220gr
300win mag------2700fps
30-06-----------2500fps

30-06-----------2700fps
308win----------2500fps

quote:

Originally posted by Woodmnctry:
It always amazes me on that when one asks a question such as "how to paint the house" there are those out there that would rather tell one what color to paint it and what kind of sprayer to use -- WOW! ---
This question was originally posed to ask if there was someone out there that had personal field experience (note: that means actually used the 375 Ultra - not armchair opinions). I personally have used the 375 H& H a whole bunch -- but have nada experience with the Ultra -- and that was what I was looking for --- real answers -- not armchair BS.
By the way -- I use Remington’s -- and have expended vastly more rounds through these rifles than I can even think about -- not one negative issue has occurred that I could even remotely blame on Green. I find it most humorous when the armchair experts start banging the "oh my gosh negative drums" just to hear themselves talk -- I sincerely doubt that most of the negative issues noted above are from reliable and factual sources. I do realize that any manufactured item on any day can have its problems - but doubt that Remington is better or worse than the "other" manufactured weapons available.
This was not supposed to be a discussion of “my Chevy is better than your Ford†but that seems to be the mentality of some individuals.
I would like to continue this discussion but am leaving to go shoot something -- with my Remington -- sure as heck hope the handle doesn't fall off that would be a bummer when looking down the barrel at Mr CB.
Opinions are like rectal orifices -- everyone has one and no two are the same --
"God Love America" cuz we can have opinions.
G

Of course you are free to use a Rem 700 and ignore the bad experiences of others. At your peril.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
I think few people would say that the slower of the parings would be a superior killer.

If you read Kevin Robertson's work, he says exactly that. He has found that the 375 H&H is most effective when loaded to 2350 fps. And ask any 10 professional hunters in Africa whether they have seen better results in the field from the 30-06 or 300 Weatherby. The 30-06 gets the nod. Above a certain threshold, extra velocity tends to get worse results, not better.

Sometime penetration is better at lower velocity, less resistance.

Check with Ganyana's posts concerning theproblems associated with different makes of rifles during the PH profeciency exams. You will see that Remingtons had more than their share of problems.


465H&H

500Grains, I agree. I"m still trying to find out if the Hornady 458 interbond is functional at Win-Mag velocities rather than Lott velocities. My 458 win is currently getting some work at the gunsmith's, or I would answer the question for myself. First one to post a picture of a 458 interbond shot from a 458 win case into a XXX gets first prize! The Lott velocities are clearly too much for the bullet. Of course this post really belongs on another recent thread, but I think 500grains may have a different viewpoint here.

WoodJack

I don't know to many people taking 265 grain bullets to Africa and shooting cape buffalo @ 300 yards. You're comparing apples to oranges when you mention two different grains for the .375 and .378 since their both the same caliber. How do they compare when both are shooting same Premier bullets. Barnes, NorthForks or swift A frames.

Steve

Steve,

I am just showing that someone can shoot well designed oranges out of a 375H*H, and get better results than someone shooting apples out of a 378WM. Its just a case of showing what can be done with the plain old 375hh.And that it is not wise to underestimate the capability of that round with well designed pills. Performance does not always have to come from huge cases.
What advantage does a 300gnAframe/378WM have over 265HV-375H*H?? none that I can see,considering that the 375hh/HVmonometal has no less penetration and superior downrange strike/energy/momentum.

Dan: I believe the theory of less velocity equals more penetration held true with older, conventional cup and jacket bullets. With the advent of the Super Premiums, often-times velocity enhances penetration. Case in point is my 300 Weatherby. With 180gr Partitions, it easily out-penetrates Hornadys and the TSXs go even deeper than partitions and a hell of a lot more than with my 06. jorge

WANNA find out about Remmytin extractors and bolts??
just contact any of the competent gunsmiths who work on rifles. Notice I said gunsmiths not parts replacers... and ask them what they think of them.
The guy who has worked on my guns for over 30 years has Remingtons in the shop all teh time for failed extractors and bolt work, as well as trying to true the scope mount screw holes in the receivers which seem to be out of allignment on regular basis.

as for H&H vs RUM, I will admit prejudice since I have burned out bbls on my Model 70 in .375H&H.(as I write this it is getting another new one) I would take it over the RUM all day long.
It is an easy cartridge to relaod and EVERYONE has data and everything else for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
I think the arguments about recoil, and ammo availability, just Red Herrings.

If you've ever pulled the trigger on a 375 H&H vs a 375 RUM in guns or relatively equal weight you'll very quickly know that "recoil" is very real & not a red herring. My Leupold 1.75 - 6 VX III sure felt it. Had to send it back to Leupold 2x to have the erector assembly replaced. Now it may have failed at H&H recoil levels but IMHO a RUM bumps up recoil a lot.

Anyway how would you ever prove the faster round kills better? What is deader than dead - that is a red herring. Once a GS or a Northfork exits, its job is done whatever speed its travelling.

Its just that there is no free lunch. Just a bunch of compromises otherwise we'd be blasting prairie dogs with a 375 or bigger. To each his own but for a first 375 its hard to go past the 375 H&H as you have a wide choice of rifles including a M700.

Thereafter go out & play & choose your poison.

Surely the RUM cannot be that scarce in the States - see if you can shoot one before you buy. I'm sure there are plenty of H&H's to try. Then make your own choice. Both will do the job if you point it right.

Regards
JohnT

quote:

Originally posted by Woodmnctry:
It always amazes me on that when one asks a question such as "how to paint the house" there are those out there that would rather tell one what color to paint it and what kind of sprayer to use -- WOW! ---
This question was originally posed to ask if there was someone out there that had personal field experience (note: that means actually used the 375 Ultra - not armchair opinions). I personally have used the 375 H& H a whole bunch -- but have nada experience with the Ultra -- and that was what I was looking for --- real answers -- not armchair BS.
By the way -- I use Remington’s -- and have expended vastly more rounds through these rifles than I can even think about -- not one negative issue has occurred that I could even remotely blame on Green. I find it most humorous when the armchair experts start banging the "oh my gosh negative drums" just to hear themselves talk -- I sincerely doubt that most of the negative issues noted above are from reliable and factual sources. I do realize that any manufactured item on any day can have its problems - but doubt that Remington is better or worse than the "other" manufactured weapons available.
This was not supposed to be a discussion of “my Chevy is better than your Ford†but that seems to be the mentality of some individuals.
I would like to continue this discussion but am leaving to go shoot something -- with my Remington -- sure as heck hope the handle doesn't fall off that would be a bummer when looking down the barrel at Mr CB.
Opinions are like rectal orifices -- everyone has one and no two are the same --
"God Love America" cuz we can have opinions.
G

Wood, your comments above are what is hard headed BS, not the advice given here on the Big green! I ask you, if it is pure BS, can you you name one other bolt rifle that is factory chambered for Dangerous game cartridges, that has logged as many failiers, and has as many law suits for filed for wrongfull death?

I didn't think so, because no other rifle exists with that record, and even Remington finally realized that fact, and changed action to the Rem998 with a Zastava action! I will tell you right here I have personally seen these damn things go off when the safeties were push to fire position,and I own a couple of 700s, that belonged to my long gone father, but they are in my safe simply because they belonged to my father who never shot them except at paper. the 700 7mm rem mag one was bought new in about 1967, and is still new, haveing no more than 40 rounds fired through it, because I will not allow anyone to use it to hunt with! What amazes me is people who continue to poke their collective heads in the sand, and ignore the bad safety record of that piece of crap. However, as 500grains says:

quote:

Of course you are free to use a Rem 700 and ignore the bad experiences of others. At your peril.

MacD37
Are you saying that remingtion is replacing the 700 with the 998. That news to me will they rplace the 700 in all chamberings or just BG rounds???
Thanks for the info
Dr B

quote:

If you read Kevin Robertson's work, he says exactly that. He has found that the 375 H&H is most effective when loaded to 2350 fps. And ask any 10 professional hunters in Africa whether they have seen better results in the field from the 30-06 or 300 Weatherby. The 30-06 gets the nod. Above a certain threshold, extra velocity tends to get worse results, not better.

quote:

.375cal 300gr
375H&H----------2500fps
375RUM----------2700fps

.35cal 250gr
358 Norma -------2700fps
35 Whelan-------2500fps

.338cal 250gr
338-06----------2500fps
338win mag------2700fps

.338cal 225 gr
338-06----------2600fps
338win mag------2800fps


308cal 220gr
300win mag------2700fps
30-06-----------2500fps

30-06-----------2700fps
308win----------2500fps

I have owned a dozen 30-06 and 308s, they are my favorite rifles to hunt with and shoot. I also have owned one 300mag. The 300mag is absoloutly the bigger hammer. I don't know who Kevin Robertson is but I know no one who has acutaly used both rounds that would agree with him. Phil Shoemaker who hunted BB for years with a 30-06 would admit that the 300win is more power. Some people including Phi would say that many hunters shoot their Mags poorly and would be better off with a 30-06. This is a marksmanship issue. I sure their are many who can shoot the 375H&H better than the 375RUM, but that doesn't make the 375H&H a better killer than the 375RUM. Also who cares which round penatrates a little more than the other. if you ue a premium Bullet ie GS custom or TSX you will probly get a pass through with either round. The extra velocity will give you a larger wound channel and more tissue damage.

Dr B

Gerry375, I think you were talking about the recoil of a .378wby. I find the .375wby only a bit more than a std. .375h&h. Moving up to a RUM, again, for the extra recoil, I hink the various .42 caliber rounds are better killers than a .375 anything, JMO, based on my own, friends & professional's experience. The 200fps is of little help in a DG rifle for trajectory as you shouldn't be shooting DG past 100yds anyway. Besides, 200fps isn't really going to flatten your trajectory out to 300yds or so.

fredj338
What about 200fps at 25yds. after all their is only 100-150fps difference in the 458win and the 458 lott. If it makes a diffrence in .458 cal it will make a difference in .375 cal.
Dr B

Dr B,

There is certainly logic in what you say. But it is possible for there to be too much velocity which results in less penetration. Consider the following:

1. With expanding bullets, more velocity means they open up sooner. A bullet that opens up sooner faces more resistance in flesh, it may have lost some weight as well. That will tend to impede penetration. Too much velocity means that the bullet may blow its nose off completely. We have seen pictures of those slugs on this forum. A bullet with its nose blown off is just an under-weight solid.

2. Additional velocity tends to exaggerate bullet yaw (tipping, or fishtailing). If the rifle's twist does not correctly stabilize the bullet both in air and in flesh, then the yaw will lead to tumbling and termination of penetration. This is why the old 460 wby used to penetration less than a 458 win mag.

3. Few, if any solid bullets remain perfectly reliable above 2400 fps. The lead core squirts out of Woodleighs. Barnes bullets show expanded noses and bent shanks. Even GS Custom bullets start to widen at the nose. Anything other than fairly minor deformation of the bullet will tend to alter its course within the animal, possibly causing it to miss the vitals for which it was intended.

Therefore while it may be possible to assemble a 375 RUM and ammo that penetrate deeper than a 375 H&H, it is by no means a sure thing.

As for Kevin Robertson, he is highly published on the topic of African Hunting and is the author of the book "The Perfect Shot", a title which has now been pirated by more famous authors and film makers.

There is only one reason why extra speed may be undesirable: Bullets that are constructed in such a way that they will break to unacceptable levels at the higher speeds.

When bullets are designed to impact and work at higher speeds, there is absolutely no reason why one should not take advantage of that fact to make shot placement easier. Shot placement is, after all, job number one.

The vast majority of failures with monometal bullets, especially where a mono turns in the target or tumbles, can be ascribed to using a mono that is too long. When using monos, softs or solids, it is good practise to back off from "traditional" weights two or three steps. This will allow the mono to track straight and deep because there is less tendency to yaw.

The trouble with bullets that yaw starts at impact. If the stability of the bullet is such that it will make the transition from flight into the target, without undue deviation of the bullet axis from line of flight, results tend to be good. High gyroscopic stability is the product of tight twist rates, shorter bullets and high rotational speed.

All the recommendations such as those from Kevin Robertson are related to bullets that are designed for impact speeds around 2200 to 2400 fps. If the right bullet is used, reduced penetration as a result of high velocity only becomes a problem at close range and with muzzle velocities substantially in excess of 3500fps.

Do not try to haul a plough with a ride on mower and, if you buy a Ferrari, use it like it was intended to be used. No sense in putting retreads on it.

If your buddy wants a rifle that will work OUT OF THE BOX, I recommend he take a look at a Blaser Safari in 375 H&H.
I have seen very few Rem 700's in belted Mag that would work 100%. [Actually I have never seen one that would].

If he thinks he needs more power than a 375 H&H step up to the 416 RM.

Do a detailed search here on AR and you will fing a reaccuring theme, factory and Custom bolt rifles that do not work.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
There is only one reason why extra speed may be undesirable: Bullets that are constructed in such a way that they will break to unacceptable levels at the higher speeds.

When bullets are designed to impact and work at higher speeds, there is absolutely no reason why one should not take advantage of that fact to make shot placement easier. Shot placement is, after all, job number one.

The vast majority of failures with monometal bullets, especially where a mono turns in the target or tumbles, can be ascribed to using a mono that is too long. When using monos, softs or solids, it is good practise to back off from "traditional" weights two or three steps. This will allow the mono to track straight and deep because there is less tendency to yaw.

The trouble with bullets that yaw starts at impact. If the stability of the bullet is such that it will make the transition from flight into the target, without undue deviation of the bullet axis from line of flight, results tend to be good. High gyroscopic stability is the product of tight twist rates, shorter bullets and high rotational speed.

All the recommendations such as those from Kevin Robertson are related to bullets that are designed for impact speeds around 2200 to 2400 fps. If the right bullet is used, reduced penetration as a result of high velocity only becomes a problem at close range and with muzzle velocities substantially in excess of 3500fps.

Do not try to haul a plough with a ride on mower and, if you buy a Ferrari, use it like it was intended to be used. No sense in putting retreads on it.

Bravo!

I've used the .375 RUM on a white tail buck. Range was 50 yards. Factory loaded Swift 300 grainer at 2800 fps MV. It was a complete pass through in a straight line. The blood trail was broad and very, very short.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodmnctry:
375 H&H vs. 375 Rem Ultra in a Remington 700 --- which one to buy for a African plains game hunt that will also include Cape Buffalo. I am posing this question for a friend that wants to purchase a new rifle for an upcoming trip.

375 H&H!!

Now we have found your caliber ....be more focused on choice of rifle
Control feed....claw extractor.....good open sights regulated + scopeoption(QD).
Broken bolthandle..?? the bolthandle should be milled out of one block....the reciever should be milled out of one block...yah...please read MAUSER between the lines

quote:

If you read Kevin Robertson's work, he says exactly that. He has found that the 375 H&H is most effective when loaded to 2350 fps. And ask any 10 professional hunters in Africa whether they have seen better results in the field from the 30-06 or 300 Weatherby. The 30-06 gets the nod. Above a certain threshold, extra velocity tends to get worse results, not better.

dan, you are making a 45-70 argument here... the faster the bullet the harder the target

an arrow can penetrate pretty good only going 300 fps.

bullet design/function and integrity mean a lot. i think its hard to outperforn a flat. nose solid. also a flat nose cast werks pretty good up to 2200.

back to the subject...if the 700 was so good why has remington gone mauser???

I tend to agree with Gerard on this one.

But, by the same token, I have never shot anything with a .375 Holland & Holland Belted Rimless Magnum that I felt would fall any faster to any other .375, as long as I fulfilled my part of the bargain.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Dr B,

There is certainly logic in what you say. But it is possible for there to be too much velocity which results in less penetration. Consider the following:

1. With expanding bullets, more velocity means they open up sooner. A bullet that opens up sooner faces more resistance in flesh, it may have lost some weight as well. That will tend to impede penetration. Too much velocity means that the bullet may blow its nose off completely. We have seen pictures of those slugs on this forum. A bullet with its nose blown off is just an under-weight solid.

2. Additional velocity tends to exaggerate bullet yaw (tipping, or fishtailing). If the rifle's twist does not correctly stabilize the bullet both in air and in flesh, then the yaw will lead to tumbling and termination of penetration. This is why the old 460 wby used to penetration less than a 458 win mag.

3. Few, if any solid bullets remain perfectly reliable above 2400 fps. The lead core squirts out of Woodleighs. Barnes bullets show expanded noses and bent shanks. Even GS Custom bullets start to widen at the nose. Anything other than fairly minor deformation of the bullet will tend to alter its course within the animal, possibly causing it to miss the vitals for which it was intended.

Therefore while it may be possible to assemble a 375 RUM and ammo that penetrate deeper than a 375 H&H, it is by no means a sure thing.

As for Kevin Robertson, he is highly published on the topic of African Hunting and is the author of the book "The Perfect Shot", a title which has now been pirated by more famous authors and film makers.

dan is showing good wisdom here for bullets 35 cal and over...go big heavy and slow/go small light and fast.

quote:

as long as I fulfilled my part of the bargain.

This is the essence of the matter: Shot placement. Often, choosing between two calibers will come down to which one can be applied most effectively by the shooter in question. If the recoil of a 375RUM will cause the shooter to consistently mess up his shots by flinching, he is vastly better off using a 375 H&H. If he can shoot a RUM well, it is a better tool for collecting plains game trophies. It is not recommended for DG unless it is a custom rifle built on a DG action.

quote:

The 30-06 gets the nod. Above a certain threshold, extra velocity tends to get worse results, not better.

This opinion, expressed by countless PHs, is entirely correct and mostly the domain of jacketed lead soft bullets and some older monos such as our older HP range and similar. It particularly does not apply to our HV monometal bullets. Anyone that is interested can obtain contact details from me of professional hunters who held this opinion and now, after using HV monos, agree that it is bullet construction that causes the worse results, not speed. Most hammers will work OK but the harder you hit, the better the handle must be. Wooden hammer handles break on occasion and when the head comes off, you have a problem that could have been avoided if you sprung the money for a steel handle in the first place.

If the bullet is up to the extra 200fps, there is no doubt that the trajectory will be flatter, wind drift will be less, time of flight will be shorter and more momentum and enrgy is applied to the target. The differences may be small, but collectively the result will be better.

Dan,

quote:

Even GS Custom bullets start to widen at the nose.

This is intentional. The FNs are laid out so that, as impact speed increases, the nose will flatten, the bullet will approach a true cylinder shape and become more effective. When the nose widens to more than caliber size, penetration becomes negatively affected. That is why we make such caliber/weight/speed specific recommendations for FNs. The balance between how the bullet will deform and the intended use is important. We know what each bullet design is likely to do and recommend accordingly. This applies to GSC HV bullets as well.

Look carefully at the photo below. The 540gr .510 bullet was recovered from an ele and expanded almost to perfection.


Below are 450gr .458 FNs fired into a test medium at 2450fps, 2000fps and unfired. There is no doubt that the one on the left would put a bigger hurt on whatever receives the bullet. (Thanks to Andy for the pic.)

quote:

There is only one reason why extra speed may be undesirable: Bullets that are constructed in such a way that they will break to unacceptable levels at the higher speeds.

When bullets are designed to impact and work at higher speeds, there is absolutely no reason why one should not take advantage of that fact to make shot placement easier. Shot placement is, after all, job number one.

The vast majority of failures with monometal bullets, especially where a mono turns in the target or tumbles, can be ascribed to using a mono that is too long. When using monos, softs or solids, it is good practise to back off from "traditional" weights two or three steps. This will allow the mono to track straight and deep because there is less tendency to yaw.

The trouble with bullets that yaw starts at impact. If the stability of the bullet is such that it will make the transition from flight into the target, without undue deviation of the bullet axis from line of flight, results tend to be good. High gyroscopic stability is the product of tight twist rates, shorter bullets and high rotational speed.

All the recommendations such as those from Kevin Robertson are related to bullets that are designed for impact speeds around 2200 to 2400 fps. If the right bullet is used, reduced penetration as a result of high velocity only becomes a problem at close range and with muzzle velocities substantially in excess of 3500fps.

Do not try to haul a plough with a ride on mower and, if you buy a Ferrari, use it like it was intended to be used. No sense in putting retreads on it.


gscustom.co.za

Not to hijack the tread, but.
I have 450 HV bullets bought a few years ago labelled “GS CUSTOM S.APAT.# 97/10275#308 160HV.078 X 50â€, on one side and “CAL./KAL,:300H&H, 300 WM 160GR HV/HP/SP/BTâ€, on the other side. This bullet looses all its wings on impact shot in a 308 Norma Magnum at 930 m/s (3051 f/s). It makes a mess of the shoulder on the impact side and only a small hole through the vitals. The animal tends to walk 200 – 600 yard after the shot. Hove far down must it be reloaded to keep its wings through the vitals?

Just two more cents from a sofa safari "expert": While the .375 has been working wonderfully well since 1912, Remington has an ugly habit of introducing new cartridges and dropping them a few years, if not a few months later.
I tend to agree with some of the other fellas that if you are going to endure the added recoil and blast of the RUM, why not step up to a .416 or .404?

svehella,
Push the speed up to 3200 to 3300fps if you have a 24" barrel. Hold tight behind the shoulder and and in the bottom half of the chest cavity. If you want to break a shoulder, break the offside shoulder. I have some questions, (what animals, what distance, how many times has it happened) can you e-mail me on gerard(at)wol.co.za?

Woodmnctry,
Your original question asked which one to buy, the .375 H&H or the .375 RUM. To me, this comparison is like comparing the .30-06 to the .300 Win Mag. The .375 H&H has a long and successful record in African hunting and has proven adequate for all African game. The .30-06 also has a long and successful record and is adequate for all North American game. The .375 RUM and the .300 Win Mag, having larger capacity cases, burn more powder to give 200+/- fps more velocity. With similar bullets, this will result in a flatter trajectory and more energy. Unfortunately, it also results in more recoil.

Remington's website had a program where you can compare different calibers or loads. When I used this program, it showed that the .375 RUM with a 300 gr spitzer bullet has the same trajectory as a .30-06 with a 180 gr spitzer bullet, and that the muzzle energy of the 300 gr .375 RUM is the same as a 400 gr bullet from a .416 Rem Mag.

I have had both a .375 H&H and a .375 RUM and a standard .30-06 that 30 yrs ago I had rechambered to .30 Gibbs that duplicates the balistics of the .300 Win Mag.

I am 6'-2" tall and weigh about 205 lbs. I shoot skeet and/or trap at least one day per week all year, shooting at least 100-200 rounds per day. Mostly 12 ga. I like to shoot. I am not macho into recoil. I have had both my skeet and trap guns ported and have installed mercury recoil reducers in the stocks. They are pleasant to shoot, with less recoil and muzzle jump, the O/U is quick to get on the second bird in doubles.

When I first got my .375 RUM, a Remington 700, I shot half a box of shells through it and quit. It was definately not comfortable to shoot. I then had a KDF muzzle brake installed. That tamed it alot. I'll install a mercury reducer in the stock before I take it back to Africa. Its more gun than I need for anything in North America, unless I ever go after Brown bears in Alaska.

I took my .375 RUM to Africa last year. Handloads with the 300 gr Barnes TSX bullet at 2800+ muzzle velocity. My two "check the zero" shots off the tailgate of my PH's truck in Zimbabwe were touching at 100 yds. That made my PH smile. I used this rifle/load for Buffalo and Bushbuck in Zim and for Zebra, Nyala and C. Reedbuck in South Africa. Shots ranged from 20 yds for the Bushbuck, 50 yds for the Buffalo, to 210 yds for the Nyala. All shots except the one in the Buffalo were complete pass throughs. A very large internal wound channel and a 1/2" exit hole. The bullet in the Buffalo was recovered in the off shoulder and was the picture perfect Barnes mushroom.

As for the 700 Remington rifle, I had absoutly no problems with either of the two 700 Remingtons, the .375 RUM and a 7mm Rem Mag, that I took on my last trip, June/July 2005, to Zimbabwe and South Africa. I also did not have any problems with a different 700 Remington in 7mm Rem Mag caliber that I took on my first hunt in South Africa in 2000, and when I took that rifle to the artic in 2004 on a hunt for Musk ox and Caribou.

So, after a somewhat lengthy dissertation, I chose my .375 RUM over my .375 H&H. I sold the H&H, and I will take my .375 RUM again to Africa.

I've owned my .375 ultra for 4 seasons now. I live in Alaska and have used it extensively. It is an awesome rifle! I also owned a 8mm Mag for 24 years and used that extensively on all animals in AK and have NEVER had a problem with that Remington. I have NEVER had to shoot an animal more than once with the .375 ultra. It is extremely accurate. I loaded the barnes triple shock's 270 grain bullets for it and I didn't use the max load and with the muzzle break, it is a sweet shooting gun now. I am not saying it is better than the H & H as I really don't think any animal is going to know the difference if it is shot with the ultra or H & H. I would probably go with the H & H just for the ammo available, but the ultra is an awesome gun. I still don't get the bad mouthing of the Remingon's as I have used mine for over 24 years now and I treat my guns like crap in the field and they have NEVER failed. JMO

quote:

If he can shoot a RUM well, it is a better tool for collecting plains game trophies. It is not recommended for DG unless it is a custom rifle built on a DG action.

Gerard What do you consider a DG Action. Have you had any negative experice with the Rem 700. would changing the extractor to a Sako or M16 extractor make the Rem 700 in to a DG action.
Thanks
DR B

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Just two more cents from a sofa safari "expert": While the .375 has been working wonderfully well since 1912, Remington has an ugly habit of introducing new cartridges and dropping them a few years, if not a few months later.
I tend to agree with some of the other fellas that if you are going to endure the added recoil and blast of the RUM, why not step up to a .416 or .404?

Dr B,
The market share of various rifles and actions is probably quite different in South Africa from what would be found in the USA. I have been riflesmithing since 1980 and have seen many more Mauser type actions than Remingtons. Brno and lately CZ550, have been popular in South Africa for several decades and there are large numbers of them around. Based on the repairs I have had to do, it is my perception that a Remington is more likely to fail than a Mauser type. Simply put, I have worked on more broken Remingtons than Mausers even though the split in the market is the other way by a wide margin. Also consider that, in my working experience, more Sako rifles have failed than Mauser type actions.

Having said that, it is probable that only a small number of Remintons fail and that leaves a large number that work flawlessly. Same with Sako.

When going after game that may fight back, and do not forget that that would include game like bushbuck, I would favour a Mauser type action that has been thoroughly checked for flawless functioning. I would not consider taking a factory standard rifle of any make or type after DG. My 375H&H is a Steyr Mannlicher and it will never see use on dangerous game. I do not trust it to work if the going gets rough. Should have changed it long ago.

I usually agree with just about everything 500 grains says, but after having shot hundreds of american bison, feed lot cattle, and 20 plus elk with a 375 improved, Id say go for the velocity and almost any premium soft point bullet.

However I do not like the 375 Remington.

I would make a 375 x 404 improved with 25 degree shoulder.

Or a 375 H and H improved with 25 degree shoulder.

You can easily get 2,700-2,800 fps with a 300 grain premium soft in the belted magnum case with a case full of IMR-4831. You literally cant stuff enough powder in there to get into trouble.

The faster you push a premium soft point the more damage it does.

Oddly enough, the faster you push a FMJ you may run into trouble. The various improved 375's are just MADE for a 350 grain FMJ. The 375 A Square loaded with 350 grain FMJ had 1.3 meters of penetration for Mike La Grange, 0.3 meter more than anyother ctg.

Faster bullets do not pitch and yaw more, they are more stable as they have more Rotational Velocity. The deformation 500 grains has seen in higher velocity solids is not due to pitching and yawing but rapid decelration.

Just need better solids!

Dr. Robertson is about 25 years behind in his knowledge of premium bullets. He loads down a 375 to 9.3 x 62mm velocity so the FMJ will tumble and it does. (He does not want it to exit on broad side bufalo).

There is no such thing as a "magic" velocity threshold.

If you are shooting premium softs, go for the velocity.

If you are shooting FMJ's select a heavier bullet until the bullet manufacturers catch up.

EVEN THOUGH I LIKE VELOCITY, I would rather have a modified CZ 550, pre 64 mod 70, or Dakota in 375 H&H than a Remington in 375 RUM.

Everything 500 grains says about Remington action is true, and even worse. (Bolt over base most common malfunction).

First, use what is reliable, then fine tune it for velocity.

Andy

quote:

However I do not like the 375 Remington.

did you mean 375ultra in rem or 375 ruger???

/

As to the original question, definitely buy a .375 H&H and go hunting and shoot something with some factory loads with good bullets, say the 300 gr Nosler Partition.

John Gannaway opines that the .375 H&H is like a pair of black shoes, "Everbody needs one".

I have had several, and though I shoot other .375s, the H&H is definitely the best for world-wide hunting.

jim

Alf,

I test for "damage" by shooting several hundred 1,200 - 1,600 pound american bison and feedlot cattle. How do you test for it???

The 350 grain FMJ is stable in a 1-10 (A-Square) and 1-8 twist (Andys 375 Improved) at about 2,550-2,600 fps. Try it.

LaGranges stop box measures energy over unit of frontal area. It is very useful for comparing the penetration of dissimilar calibers with similar bullet profiles. Within 20% of actual penetration with two different solids on my elephant. Modeling in water was off by 100% for FN and almost perfect for RN.

The only reason a 458 A-Square at 2,400 fps out-penetrated a 460 Weatherby at 2,700 fps (2,600 measured), is beacuase the Weatherby uses a 1-16 twist and the A-Square a 1-10 twist. The slower A-Square actually had much more rotational velocity than the Weatherby! (1,950 revolutions per second vs. 2,400 rps).

I am baffled by most of your posts but am really floored by your belief that a "tumbling" 375 FMJ at 2,400 fps has nothing to do with velocity, just the "geometric construction" of the bullet!

You seem to have recently discovered literature on the stability of spitzer and RN bullets in gelatin perhaps? (You really should join the International Wound Ballistics Associaiton).

Have you shot anything with a 375 FMJ at, say 2,400 and 2,800 fps? From a 1-14, 1-12 or 1-8 twist? I have and you will never recover a high velocity FMJ at 2,800 fps with 1-8 twist! No problem recovering a std velocity 375 at 1-14. (My first Whitworth).

You need to shoot more and read less!



Take home lesson is simple:

A high velocity 375 with medium or high expasnion bullet casues brain death with either side-on or front-on chest shot on the largest bison or steer. You just shoot them, walk 20 feet up to them, touch their eye, and they are gone. I am not qualified to say why, just that this is the typical reaction from animals shot with a high velocity 375 using virtually any premium bullet. This is true for many species from 150 pounds up to 1,500 pounds. (Or more).

PS Gerard, you are welcome to use that photograph in anyway you see fit. Best wishes, Andy.[/QUOTE]