Let's start a war with the Russians in 2007, when I hope to visit. It's not like anyone will come to their aid. Those clowns have a country with some of the richest natural resources in the world, and their life expectancy is like, what, 37? First guy to the Ural mountains wins.

The double barreled large caliber anti-aircraft weapon will of course be called the Madeline.

If all the rifles shoot 9,3 x 66 ammunition the Russians won't be suspicious when we get Sako to load up 300,000,000 rounds.

We could make it an annual winter custom.

LD

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Let's start a war with the Russians in 2007, when I hope to visit.

The double barreled large caliber anti-aircraft weapon will of course be called the Madeline.

If all the rifles shoot 9,3 x 66 ammunition the Russians won't be suspicious when we get Sako to load up 300,000,000 rounds.
LD

lawndart,
I'm in!

In Bror von Blixens book "Letters from Africa" one can read about one of his english friends that actually took his .450 N. E to the trenches in Flandern and CLAIMED to have shoot down a German plane with "a right and a left".

The 9,3x66 will be fine

By the way,
Shall we invade Zimbabwe and remove Mr Mugabe in the winter 2007 (Northen hemisphere) or do we have to take a pause after Russia and vait until 2008

Rusia may be rich in resources but it is also rich in Russians -one unruly bunch! I´ll let you military guys do the field work, after that I can step in as an expensive consultant specializing in the psychology of the typical Russian.

As boha use to say:

â€-Ryssland och dess folk göra inte sitt inträde i världshistorien godvilligt och med egna knuffar framÃ¥t utan släpas fastmera i högst passiv skepnad in vid hÃ¥ret, framrotade ur kärr och skogar av allsköns grannar med vaket kynne och hÃ¥rd hand. Ryssland är inte nÃ¥got som spirat av sig själv, ingen organism med primär växtkraft, utan ett ting som alstrats i andra hand och som ett bifenomen: en formlös jäsande massa i världshistoriens landsvägsdike, vid sidan av herrefolkens strÃ¥k.â€

Frans G Bengtsson the book "Karl XII levnad"

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
As boha use to say:

â€-Ryssland och dess folk göra inte sitt inträde i världshistorien godvilligt och med egna knuffar framÃ¥t utan släpas fastmera i högst passiv skepnad in vid hÃ¥ret, framrotade ur kärr och skogar av allsköns grannar med vaket kynne och hÃ¥rd hand. Ryssland är inte nÃ¥got som spirat av sig själv, ingen organism med primär växtkraft, utan ett ting som alstrats i andra hand och som ett bifenomen: en formlös jäsande massa i världshistoriens landsvägsdike, vid sidan av herrefolkens strÃ¥k.â€

Frans G Bengtsson the book "Karl XII levnad"

I love this book, in my opinion, Frans G. Bengtsson is the greatest essayist we have had in Sweden, and beyond that his biography of king Karl XII is the best biography written in the Swedish language. I must try to translate that quotation, not an easy thing to do but I must try it. No time to do that now though.

And concidering the rot spreading over from the African Hunting Report forum, we better keep this thread going. It is our duty to AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Marterius:

quote:

Originally posted by husky:
As boha use to say:

â€-Ryssland och dess folk göra inte sitt inträde i världshistorien godvilligt och med egna knuffar framÃ¥t utan släpas fastmera i högst passiv skepnad in vid hÃ¥ret, framrotade ur kärr och skogar av allsköns grannar med vaket kynne och hÃ¥rd hand. Ryssland är inte nÃ¥got som spirat av sig själv, ingen organism med primär växtkraft, utan ett ting som alstrats i andra hand och som ett bifenomen: en formlös jäsande massa i världshistoriens landsvägsdike, vid sidan av herrefolkens strÃ¥k.â€

Frans G Bengtsson the book "Karl XII levnad"

I love this book, in my opinion, Frans G. Bengtsson is the greatest essayist we have had in Sweden, and beyond that his biography of king Karl XII is the best biography written in the Swedish language. I must try to translate that quotation, not an easy thing to do but I must try it. No time to do that now though.

And concidering the rot spreading over from the African Hunting Report forum, we better keep this thread going. It is our duty to AR.

Marterius,
I tried translate it but failed...

The best I could do now... I am not absolutely sure "sprouted" is the right word.

"Russia and her people did not enter history by their own free will and by their own move forward; they were on the contrary dragged in by the hair, hauled out of bogs and forests by various neighbours with alert minds and firm hands. Russia is not something that has sprouted by itself, no organism with any internal power to grow, but a matter created second-hand, as epiphenomenon: A formless, swelling pulp in the history's ditch by the side of the road of the masters."

What poetry! Masterful translation! Good show, press on!

Frans G did really lighten up my days as a poor student. The essays on generals Lee and Forrest! On Lying! On Thoreau! On the Merovingians!

To think this started out about 9,3x66!

I suggest an enthusiastic cheer for Genseric, king of the Vandals, who in three days destroyed Rome and 1000 years of culture. What have we accomplished? I ask humbly...

quote:

"Russia and her people did not enter history by their own free will and by their own move forward; they were on the contrary dragged in by the hair, hauled out of bogs and forests by various neighbours with alert minds and firm hands. Russia is not something that has sprouted by itself, no organism with any internal power to grow, but a matter created second-hand, as epiphenomenon: A formless, swelling pulp in the history's ditch by the side of the road of the masters."

Those are likely the truest words I have ever read.

Genseric was foolish. His predecessors all had Rome buy them off. Then again, perhaps Rome was out of money by then.

General Lee once stated that, "duty" was the most sublime word in the English language.

Have Franz G's essays ever been translated? Everyone likes to focus on the massacre at Ft. Pillow by Forrest's troops, but they overlook the fact that Nathan Bedford Forrest was the most capable Division level general in the entire War of Northern Aggression. I believe that General Heinz Guderian based much of his theory of tank warfare on his study of General Forrest's tactics.

lawndart

If I one day start writing essays I´ll first reead FG -just to put things in perspective.

Marterius: Nice translation...pretty depressing to think that these üntermenschen have nukes...

I believe Bengtsson has never been translated, exept for his yarn about Orm Red, the viking, which is great reading, but probably loses a lot of the style in translation. Bengtssons language was always perfect. He mastered in english literature I believe, but was forbidden to teach by his professors because of his awful pronounciation.
A nice quote of his: "I have never been unfaithful to my wife, I do not believe that psychology is a science, I have so much faith in the human race that I believe that no man can be a communist out of conviction, and I am not Swedish, I am a Skåning."

The War of Northern Aggression (nice touch) is of great interest; last of the wars featuring great Commanders in the field. I have a much neglected book I will open this evening, "Lees Generals" and study Forrest - a cavalry master.

The What If concept is an interesting one if you apply it on the war in question - What if Jeb Stuart wuold have been present and operating in around Gettysburg. What effect would that have on Europe...

God, I still dream about Sharps rifles..

Well, how´s your 9,3x66 doing?

quote:

The What If concept is an interesting one if you apply it on the war in question - What if Jeb Stuart wuold have been present and operating in around Gettysburg. What effect would that have on Europe...

Yes, or if Lincoln had listened to those who derided Grant as a drunkard... I will not question that the Confederate states had the constitutional right to leave the union, but from a European perspective, it could have been very different if the South won and there had been two unions. Would there have been a North American super-power strong enough to stand up against Hitler and the Soviet Union? Could be rather problematic for the Confederate states as well seen in that light... So, if the South had won, I don't think Sako had invented the 9.3x66.

As to Frans G. Bengtsson in English, his novel about the Vikings is translated and is called "The Long Ships". There is also a collection of essays translated, called "A Walk to an Ant Hill". I am sure you can find them at http://www.abebooks.com. However, I have not idea if the translation gives justice to the very elaborated style of FGB.

Regards,
Martin

In the end, the North would have won the war, no matter what. The longer it went on, the better the Northern troops became at fighting, and the less advantage the Southerners wood craft and hunting skills would give them. Industrial capacity and a larger population trumps skill, esprit de corps and righteousness every time.

The biggest threat to the Union cause was the home front. There were draft riots in New York city, and the Democrat party kept saying, "This war can not be won; we must quit it now and let the Southerners go their own way." The term for those people back then was "Copperheads". The Copperhead is a small poisonous snake that lives in the Southern parts of the US.

Jeb Stuart was a "fart in a skillet". He was all preening, dash and posturing. Bobby Lee lost that battle because he let his temper get the better of him on the third day.

Forrest personally killed 31 Union soldiers in combat. He wasn't out looking for glory. He believed in leading from the front, and there tended to be enemy soldiers at the front .

Many, if not most of the best soldiers in the US have come from the South. Soldiering has always been one way for a poor boy from the South to see the world. In WWII the North supplied the industrial might while the South supplied the leadership and much of the elite commandos.

I am at a crossroads with the 9,3 x 66 Sako. I have a Sako AIII in 30-06 that would be good for conversion, but it is a very good rifle as is. I also have a Mark X Mauser and a Remington 700 that I can convert. The reamer will be here soon, so I have to choose....($$$$)

I will order a copy of his essays, and get the book about the Vikings. People talk about the Vikings ascending the Seine and burning Paris like it is a bad thing???

lawndart

I´d convert the Remington...

Interesting listening to you guys talk about the history of warfare. Boha loaned me a great book "The psychology of killing" written by a US colonel...the name escapes me at the momenet. VERY good reading.

I´m in the process of gathering info on some aspects of the Winter War that seem a bit elusive, mainly the part of the Soviet occupation of the South Western tip of Finland.

Seems like only a few battles are remembered and seems to mostly have been a trench war...

quote:

By the way,
Shall we invade Zimbabwe and remove Mr Mugabe in the winter 2007 (Northen hemisphere) or do we have to take a pause after Russia and vait until 2008

I believe we should just buy sunscreen, mosquito nets and beer, and wait on a sailboat off of Zanzibar. The four horsemen and the ghost of Reinhard Heydrich are busy in that country, and they don't like to be disturbed.

When it is time to go back in there will be only ashes, smoke, bones bleaching in the sun and a keening on the wind as the angels try to understand what happened.

lawndart

I hate sailboat after have been sailing the navys big sail ships.

Prefer gas turbines made by Bristol or Rolls Royce

Remigton it is for the conversion. Sako extractor at least.

The only problem with sailboats is that you have to sail them to get anywhere.

Here is a good boat. Scroll down to the 52' USCG approved motor (diesel) powered unit:
Slow Boat to Africa

lawndart

Lawndart,
It looks nice... but have a look at this one:
http://www.malardrottningen.se/English/skeppeteng.htm
"Mälardrottningen" is a restaurant nowadays, but I think we can get her cheap

Set Course and Speed for Africa!

I´d never sail in a boat built with my own two hands. Owned a sailboat for two summers which effectivly cured me of that interest.

Guns and hunting, hunting and guns. Now and then a book.

Too bad I have to work for a living.

Very nice! The ship is nice also.

Whatever we use, we should pick up a couple Barrett 50 BMG rifles and a six pack of RPGs. No need to worry about pirates off of Somalia then.

lawndart

quote:

I´d never sail in a boat built with my own two hands. Owned a sailboat for two summers which effectivly cured me of that interest.

Guns and hunting, hunting and guns. Now and then a book.

Too bad I have to work for a living.

That pretty well sums up all that is good and bad about the human condition.

A welded steel boat powered by a diesel is not too bad. You aren't crowded next to people with tuberculosis or Avian Bird Flu for ten - twenty four hours, and you are out of reach from the telephone for weeks at a time.

lawndart

PS We packed your "moose calls" today.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Very nice! The ship is nice also.

Whatever we use, we should pick up a couple Barrett 50 BMG rifles and a six pack of RPGs. No need to worry about pirates off of Somalia then.

lawndart

Thats fine! And some 6 pounders salute cannons! But i rather take "Carl Gustafs" (84mm recoilless, used by The Marines, US Special forces and so on) instead of those RPG.s.

You know "Swedish Quality" when it was worth someting...

I guess that would be OK as long as someone else does the welding -not that I´m lazy it´s just that I´m technically disinclined.

Our last elk was nailed today but we still have +20 whitetails to shoot, I hope to get my share of them.

The Carl Gustav in action...

If we can afford those, the Carl Gustavs would be very nice. The only problem that I have heard of (and you can see it in the photograph above) is that shooting one makes your hands and face turn green.

lawndart

Gentlemen! Be careful; don't say anything derogatory about the tall ships! I have sailed all my life and some of my best moments on the sea have been on this schooner: http://www.skonaren-ingo.org
I have not been able to sail very much since I became a father, but there was once some very nice trips up to Norway or over to Denmark in the company of some very fine people.

I agree with Cewe, hunting, guns and dogs have taken most of my free time in the last years, as well as books - and in later years a fiddle. But sailing to Africa, that would be something!

I agree on the Carl Gustaf, a very versatile weapon, but a .50 BMG can always be useful. The more noise, the better!

Regards,
Martin

The Finnish Army has a very nice 12,7mm that can be fit onto anything -a pleasure to shoot and effective.

Can I have one pleeaase?

I think I´d enjoy sailing more if I knew what I was doing. Sailing with the wind on a hot sunny day (with just a small breeze) is very nice if the beer is cold.

When it gets blowing I like to see someone else responsible.

Which one of you guys wants to be Captain?

That tall ship looks like fun to sail, and a hell of a lot of work to maintain.

The problem with sails is that the back blast of the Carl Gustav will melt the dacron.

Boha will be the Captain. I will be in charge of keel-hauling a liberal each day at 16:00 to officially mark the beginning of "happy hour".

We will have sound suppressors on the 50 cals. We don't want the EU on our asses for having unsafe sound levels in the work place.

LD

Please define "work" as I have an allergic condition to "work".

Hunting, drinking and chasing women is not work, these things I can do.

Cewe,
When it comes to maintenance of a sailing ship built of oak, work is to a large degree related to square-meter after square-meter of sandpaper and gallons of paint and varnish. Beyond that, you have everything to do with the machine, rigging and the real pit of the maritime work: Ship-electricity. And the drains of course. The schooner I linked to once had a drain-pump (correct word?) in the septic tank that sometimes had to be removed and cleaned; that was before I came onboard, but I am told she became a happier ship when that was replaced with a more modern implement!

An electric capstan for the anchors is a good thing though. It almost always works. Setting sails is done by hand of course, with a full crew we do it with six man on each mast, but in the old days a ship like that was sailed by two men, a boy and a skipper...

Marterius: This smells of work and/or exercise (exercise counts as work) so it´s against my religion. Sorry -but I´m allowed to watch other people work and it brings me pleasure watching people toil with menial things.

Like watching an ant farm.

Couldn´t we have a bikini crew?

A steamer would be a good compromise between Sails and Gas turbines...

The problem with this ship "Motala Express" is that she is locked in in the Swedens second largest lake "Vättern". Built 1895 at a small shipyard F. G. Sandwalls Mekaniska Verkstad. As she is 36 meters long and the canal lock only alloves ships up to 32 meters, it will be very hard to use her at our Africa trip...

But problems has always a solution!

Bikini crew? Fine, as long as you will call me Captain Haddock!

I'm not ready to see cewe in a bikini .

lawndart

God you Swedes! I was thinking Madelaine and Victoria not ME!

Even if I could fill up a B cup...maybe a small C?

Look out Walter here I come!

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
Even if I could fill up a B cup...maybe a small C?

Could we please go back to the topic of 9.3x66. There are things I don't want to know.

Regards,
Martin

Marterius: Knowledge is power, you can never know too much.

Some knowledge induces nausea, it´s a fact of life.

Could I be ships doctor? Amputation without anestesia would be my specialty! All I´d need is a bullet (for the patient to bite down on) and a bottle of whiskey for myself (see abovementioned nausea).

This will be one hell of a boat!

Gladly,

After work I was measuring the magazine boxes of various rifles around the house. The Interarms Mark X box is only 87mm (.342") long. Also, when I stack the cases in the magazine I can see that the width at the shoulder is designed for 30-06 and 270 Win cases. It looks like some work with a file would be required to get the cartridge to fit and feed. Right now they want to cross feed and hang up.

My Sako AIII in 30-06 has a longer magazine box at 89mm (.351"). It is a bit wider as well. The cases fit nicely (four down easily, five down with a bit of effort), and move forward with less tendency to cross feed.

Cartridge Overall Length looks to be important, as Erkki pointed out. If we could get by with using the 87mm COAL we could go to the N-160 powder for accuracy and consistency, or squeeze a few more fps out of it with the N-550 powder.

Cewe, could you give Erkki a call and ask him what limited him to an 85mm COAL in the final design of the 9,3 x 66 Sako?

lawndart

quote:

This will be one hell of a boat!

We should use some of the Viking designs that struck struck dread into all of Europe for 200 years.

LD

quote:

Cewe, could you give Erkki a call and ask him what limited him to an 85mm COAL in the final design of the 9,3 x 66 Sako?

A guess is that it has something to do with the modern Sako rifles having two lenghts of long actions. One for the 30-06 typ and one for magnum cartridges, and I guess Erkki did not want the 9.3x66 to be dependent of a magnum-lenght action, and made the lenght an advantage over the 375 H&H. In the days of your AIII, there was just one long Sako action.

I think your AIII is the right one for you to build on, among Sakos only to be beaten by what you in the US call a "pre Garcia" L61R.

Regards,
Martin