Just wondering which of the following you would choose to buy, build, acquire - whichever - for hunting elephants, keeping in mind that in the next twenty years or so, you may hunt between 5-15 elephants and you also want a gun that is not "overkill" on things to include small hogs and whitetail deer.
Thanks for looking -
Brian

Question:
So which and why?

Choices:
404J
416 Rem
416 Rigby
458 Win
458 Lott

 

I voted for the Lott - because it's an elephant rifle and there was nothing bigger on the list.

My vote goes to the Lott also, only because you didn't list one of Butch Searcy's doubles in 470. The 458 Win Mag can be used in a pinch, it downloads real easy with 400 grain bullets and is still a capable plains game round, and light loads with 45 cal. pistol bullets are cheap to plink with for practice.

However, if I can afford to hunt eles I think I'd buy another rifle for deer and hogs.

First off, I wish I had the problem of having to pick a gun due to 5 to 15 eleplant hunts comming up in my future!!!

I picked the Lott. I don't own one but I have a Rem 700 in 458 and that works very well with my Barnes X handloads on Buff and Hippo.

The Lott would give you the option of developing a hotter load and using heavier bullets when elephant was on the menu.

You could then use a mild 458 load in the same rifle for other stuff.

The 458 WM in a pinch?

Hmmm......

458 Lott...more energy and more knockout...It is an improved 458 winny...

Mike

Voted for the 458 Lott because you didn't have a 500 on the list.

Dak

I have at prsent a 416Rigby and in past also owned a 470NE Merkel. I have shot elephant with both and both have been fully effective. I kept the Rigby and sold the Merkel as the Rigby is ,TO ME, the more versatile of the two. It's cheaper to shoot and I feel I will get more use from it than the Merkel. I saw no particular advantage the Merkel gave me over the Rigby. I know this is probably a majority opinion of one so accept it as that please.

I chose the Rigby only because you threw the "hogs and deer" statement in... probably a better all-around choice. But if I was serious about ele it would be the Lott!

I voted for the .416 Rigby:
1. It has the punch to penetrate a bull Ele's skull from various angles
2. Recoil is managable
3. Accuracy at medium range is acceptable
4. It can be uploaded or down loaded to fit the need: Elephant to Pig
5. Standard loads are not as high pressured as found in the .416 Remington, thus exposing ammo to direct sunlight or long shelf life is not a big concern
6. Cost of reloading is desirable
I would strive to depend on my own accuracy to kill an Elephant instead of being lured into hoping a stopping rifle would compensate for an error in shot placement. A Hunter needs to have faith in himself, his rifle, his aim and his PH to slip within 20 yards of Jumbo...IMHO

I chose the Lott because your looking at 5-15 eles. With that number the odds are very high that you will face a charge. When it happens if you don't have a Lott (out of your choices) you will wish that you did.

465H&H

Allout

Forget about all that Bolt Rifle Trash.
Get yourself a good double in the 450/400 to 470 range.

However if you must use a Bolt rifle I would get the 458 Lott, load 500 grainers to @2200fps,
or North Fork 450 Fp and CP solids to 2250fps.

For deer and wild pigs I would load the Hornady 350gr RN to @2300fps.

For even less recoil you can load 300 or 400gr bullets to @1800fps.

PS. Your picture is still in every Cab in Dallas.

I voted for the Rigby for the same reasons as Bwanamrm and L. David Keith expressed. but, if that many elephants were in my future, I follow Tony's advise about the double.

A lot of it could depend on how well you know an elephants anatomy, as they are less intimidating if you are confident in dropping an elephant.

But shit happens and a big gun can get you out of perceived or real trouble. As always it is a trade-off between power and penetration, and double versus bolt.

The fact that there is typically a PH around lessens the need for anything more than a 9.3, though it is not ideal for the PH to be expending ammunition in your behalf.

Get close, know where to shoot, and pick a caliber, but it tends to shrink with experience.

But in the end, knowing what you are doing and being able to shoot to the right place is more important than the caliber. Any fool can shoot an elephant. It is knowing where to shoot that separates the men from the boys.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Forget about all that Bolt Rifle Trash.
PS. Your picture is still in every Cab in Dallas.

Tony,
I can't forget that bolt rifle trash. I don't think I am "fit" for a double.
Good to hear the pic is still hanging around. I always wanted to be famous! We will have to give them another go this coming February.

Thanks for the comments guys. I am leaning towards the Rigby.
I think I am on the right track arsenal wise.
Ruger 10-22; CZ FS .223; Ruger No 1. 25-06; Mauser M98 7x57; Mauser M98 9.3x62; Mauser M98 416 Rigby. What more could a guy want?
Brian

The 458 win has all the kick I care to endure, and with 450 gr bullets has a pretty good range for other stuff. The "cartridge spotlight" on this link has some good comparisons with some of the different rounds. I take a 375 H&H and a 458 win, and either will do for anything.
http://www.safariarms.com/

Brian
If you do go with the 416, for deer ans wild pigs a 300gr bullet at @2300fps works great.
I load them to that velocity in my 450/400 and have had great results.

Looking foward to seeing you at the next DSC.

Where is the 470 capstick and/or nitro express?

Brian

From the ones on your list, the 416 Rigby. It has "been there, done that", and is one hellof a versitile round.

Like Tony said, you can load it down for smaller stuff, and have a wide selection of bullets to boot. NorthFork makes some great 370 grain bullets.

Or you can load up. Rhino makes 430 grain bullets, and Norma is coming out with a 450 grain load in their Rigby PH ammunition.

And the case is big enough to play around with some slower burning powders and still maintain reasonable pressures.

Plus, with the right weight and stock design, it will not beat the hell out of you.

For a bolt rifle, it is just about the ideal all around chambering.

Get that and you'll be ALMOST set in your battery - you need a 450, 470 or 500 NE double rifle to round things out for going all out.

I voted for the Lott.

1. Cause I already have it.
2. 550gr Woodlieghs solids @ 2200fps
3. Pigs, deer, and other varmits, 405gr Remmys @2100.

If DRs were an option in this poll, I would go with 450#2NE. Or a 577NE

Keith

Lott.500 grain bullet no problem with energy and penetration.I might get attacked by an ele and therefore want a bullet that would penetrate or damage a big,thick skull.I figure with a 500 grain TSX loaded at 2300 fps,or a 450 NorthFork cup point solid,and a hold like steel, I'll be able to rule my destiny.

As 5 - 15 elephant is a very decent number nowadays in a hunting career, my vote would be for a specific elephant rifle - .450 NE, .458 Lott and up. Damage on medium sized game would be secondary. One could always try lighter bullets or load it down if one felt it necessary.

If you have to use a single barrel rifle, then the choices are fine, and my vote would be for the 458LOTT. It can be loaded down to a mild 45-70 load, and up to anything a .458 dia bullet can do,and is cheap to load and shoot, while bullet selection is endless!

If you had included double rifle chamberings, then I could have voted for anything between the 450/400NE 3" to the 500NE, and never look back, with the leaning being toward any of the .458 diameters!

458 lott because it works and I already have two with all the loading stuff for it



BOLT RIFLE TRASH AND PROUD

I voted for the 416 Rem. It's much more versatile for Alaska and South Texas, and holds 1 more round than the Rigby, on average.It hammered my big Chewore bull with Myles McCallum last year-- and it was cheaper to build as we could avoid trigger modifications.All said, they're all good!!! Get one or two of each and HAVE FUN!!Bwana dogo

I voted for the 458 Win Mag. With North Fork 450 gr solids, it is fairly easy to achieve 2250 fps velocity with either H4895 or AA2230 powder. This rifle has the least recoil of any mentioned except the Jeffery. At the close range of a charge, the difference in a Lott and WM in velocity is probably negligible.

416 Rem Mag. Because I have one and am very comfortable shooting with it.

Pardon my saying so but this is a ridiculous thread! If you can afford 5 or more elephant hunts then then you can sure as
H-E-doublehockeysticks afford a good elephant rifle AND a good deer rifle.

I know, how about a Lott and a .308? Was that so tough? Sheesh..........

Hey slug - It is too early to have to deal with an uninformed, ignorant jackass like you. So I am going to choose to ignore your mindlessly dumbass remarks and your lack of mental capacity to understand that it is the best practice to use your DGR for everything under the sun as often as possible to build confidence in your ability to shoot that particular rifle.
Have a nice day.
Brian

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
BOLT RIFLE TRASH AND PROUD

Now there is a statement I could hang my hat on.
Brian

I interpeted your post to mean a rifle suitable for a wide spectrum from elephant to whitetail, so I voted the .416 Remington in a bolt action. I voted the Remington over the Rigby because of the smaller bolt actions the Remington can be built on.

quote:

Originally posted by Allout:
Hey slug - It is too early to have to deal with an uninformed, ignorant jackass like you. So I am going to choose to ignore your mindlessly dumbass remarks and your lack of mental capacity to understand that it is the best practice to use your DGR for everything under the sun as often as possible to build confidence in your ability to shoot that particular rifle.
Have a nice day.
Brian

What that saying about every opinion is valid?

Considering the many pointless, self-indulgent, and trivial posts here and on other forums, lighten up.

I voted for the 404. dont know why just sounded right. All the others you can find on any shelf and they will all kill elephant, but the 404 is classic Africa.

505ED

I voted for the often criticized and much maligned 458 Winchester Magnum. It may not be sexy but it works. I've used it for moose and caribou with excellent results as well as buffalo and elephant. It shoots a heavier bullet with larger frontal area than 404 or 416's. It can be had in a smaller lighter rifle than the Rigby and it recoils significantly less than the Lott. Ammo is probably more widely avaiable than for any other of the choices. The 350 X at 2550 FPS is an excellent performer on smaller big and the 450-500 grainers are more than enough for the nastiest beasties. A 450 TSX can be driven at 2300 FPS from a 24" barrel. What advantages the 416's or 404 has over the 458 WM seems a mute point. The Lott is a bigger hammer but it is beyond my recoil tolerance in a rifle that I consider portable.

Mark

Allout,

Wow, you take things personally, don't you? Instead of acting like I raped your grandmother why don't you just make an intelligent argument. What are you, 13?

As far as using one rifle for all game goes I don't buy it unless you use the same load for all game. Light loads fired in your .458/.416/etc. are going to make your rifle and your response to recoil behave differently. I also don't think your heart will be thumping quite the same way for Bambi as it will be for Jumbo. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time but if I am maybe you could point it out in a more civil tone........

As Will said, lighten up!

Slug,

I was politely asked to be more civil to you so you don't get your feelings hurt. So I am going to not suggest you take a quick trip to warmer pastures. I am not going to ask you to mind your own business; nor will I ask why you chose to pick a fight with me, when 30+ others didn't, I am just going to let that go.

For future reference, don't worry about what makes my heart thump or how I handle recoil. That wasn't part of what I asked. I asked which one and why? I asked it for a specific reason and I got a sufficient number of acceptable answers to those questions.

Your little attempt to cut in on the thread is inconsequential. By the way, I am 30, since you are so interested. And make no mistake about it; I meant every word I typed in response to your first post this morning and would have told you the same to your face. I had no intention of starting or picking at a fight on this thread, nor did I want one to develop. If you were not pleased by the topic, why did you choose to post on it, why not just pass it up?

Brian

P.S. To those who have answered and participated in this thread in the spirit with which it was intended, thank you. I appreciate the views you have expressed with regard to the various calibers. Very interesting indeed.

Slug, did you drive a Dallas taxi back in Jan.'06?

Keith

Allout, I'm sorry if I offended you. Can we put this behind us?

Uncle.

I do think it is a good idea to use your "Elephant Gun" as much as possible before you go to Africa.
I used my big bore doubles for deer, wild pigs, black bear, caribou, and even coyote for a few years before going to Zimbabwe.

I used lighter loads with lighter bullets for quite a bit of this hunting, the bullets being more suited to the smaller game.
These 3/4 power loads did produce less recoil, but whem I shot with full power loads at game I could not really tell the difference between the two.

As a result I can handle my 450 No2 like a 22, ie. I do not even think about the recoil when shooting at game.

Allout has a good plan, get an "Elephant Gun" he likes and shooting it a lot.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Allout has a good plan, get an "Elephant Gun" he likes and shooting it a lot.

That is what the "Bubba Shoots" are all about. 375 H&H or bigger, plinking matches. Lots of fun.

Keith