Some folks get a big-ass head around here sometimes.

Hey, if you only want certain responses don't post questions, or get your own freaking forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Some folks get a big-ass head around here sometimes.

Hey, if you only want certain responses don't post questions, or get your own freaking forum.

Ah more pearls from Mr. Stewart. I ignored the first dig. But the second one well, I probably should ignore this one two, but...what the hell, you are trying to lure me out (and I have always tried to give the people what they want) and Slug is editing his posts (but sure Slug, we can put this behind us no harm, no foul - right), so why not...

You might be right Mr. Stewart. Maybe what I should do is write a book and then publish it myself - shamelessly promoting it for free on someone elses (no cost to me) internet forum. (and here I been trying to be good. I guess that idea is shot to hell and gone - oh well, bottoms up!)

Why don't we just close this thread. There is a good idea. Let's forget about the posts that actually meant something and contributed to the initial question posed for the good of not only me, but for everyone who opened the thread and took a look, garnering a bit of knowledge.

By the way - don't forget -
"Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $55 postpaid:
The Elephant Hunters, P.O. Box 104, Spring Hill, Kansas 66083 USA - you can even get your copy autographed. WOW!

Brian

Allout
Does your brother still have his 500/416 Krieghoff for sale?

If so I would urge you to consider it for your "Elephant Gun".
I have shot it, and can say, I would prefer it to ANY bolt action.

Why not get a double... Join the DRSS.... Forget about that Bolt Rifle Trash....
Leave the Dark Side....

Use the Force....

quote:

Originally posted by Allout:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Will:
Some folks get a big-ass head around here sometimes.

Hey, if you only want certain responses don't post questions, or get your own freaking forum.

Ah more pearls from Mr. Stewart. I ignored the first dig. But the second one well, I probably should ignore this one two, but...what the hell, you are trying to lure me out (and I have always tried to give the people what they want) and Slug is editing his posts (but sure Slug, we can put this behind us no harm, no foul - right), so why not...

Yes, I edited my last post (only the last one) after thinking about it a little and not wanting to continue a pissing match. I'm trying to be courteous. That doesn't mean I'll sit back and have you suggest that I thought you were right all along. You are one sanctimonious son of a bitch. Will is right, you should get your own forum.

.

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:
...... not wanting to continue a pissing match. I'm trying to be courteous. ...... You are one sanctimonious son of a bitch......

Keith

...........DAMN THE PISSING CONTESTS HERE LATELY!........

What in hell is wrong with you guys?

I don't know anything about elephants other than to stay away from them but I voted anyway.

Best Regards,
Muletrain

Came back to say that I just read all the posts and that nothing has changed around here. Still as entertaining as ever.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
...........DAMN THE PISSING CONTESTS HERE LATELY!........

What in hell is wrong with you guys?

You're right. I deleted my last post. Sorry to all.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I do think it is a good idea to use your "Elephant Gun" as much as possible before you go to Africa.
I used my big bore doubles for deer, wild pigs, black bear, caribou, and even coyote for a few years before going to Zimbabwe.

I used lighter loads with lighter bullets for quite a bit of this hunting, the bullets being more suited to the smaller game.
These 3/4 power loads did produce less recoil, but whem I shot with full power loads at game I could not really tell the difference between the two.

As a result I can handle my 450 No2 like a 22, ie. I do not even think about the recoil when shooting at game.

Allout has a good plan, get an "Elephant Gun" he likes and shooting it a lot.

Good advice from NE450No2. Not that '450' is a one gun man, but there is a saying "beware the one gub man'.

Recoil may be different between different loads, but the stock, barrel, scope, trigger will still be the same. And as '450' says you don't feel the recoil when hunting.

I always try to use my big bore and double rifles on feral game hunts for fun and practice. Nothing better than shooting several dozen beasts in true hunting circumstances for practice for the big stuff.

I voted for the .404 J. Something about it screams "Classic Africa". I don't think it would be too hard on the smaller game. I like shooting everything here in the US with a .375. There is something to be said for a bigger slower moving bullet.

I voted for the 404 Jeffery. My reasons were (and someone can correct me if I'm a little off target - excuse the pun!)

1). It gained a legendary reputation in Africa as a DG calibre (and only because Kynoch stopped producing ammo in the 60's did it lose that popularity)
2). It can drive 400gr at 2400 fps or a tad faster, which puts it in the same class as the 416 Rigby
3). From what I understand it can drive the 400's at 2400fps with less pressure than the 416 Remington Magnum
4). Cases can be made from the Remington Ultramag brass, which should be cheaper than the Rigby cases
5). Doesn't recoil as much as the .458's
6). Can be made into a light, fast handling rifle.
And I'm going to be building one so that is reason enough as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Allout:
By the way, I am 30, since you are so interested.

Now that does explain quite a bit.

Two posts after May 2007!

Supose Brian has already chosen his rifle and shot a couple of elephant with it by now?


...........................................

I can assure you that no elephant will be able to tell the difference.

So take the one you prefer.

I "vote" for the .416 Remington for the following reasons.

The .416 is plenty of caliber for the client. The latest .416 solids will penetrate incredibly.

There are several modern powders that allow the 416 Remington case size to be loaded to full power without high heat causing excessive pressure.

The 416 has a great combination of trajectory and frontal area making it a big game rifle with plains game ability instead of some of the smaller calibers that are medium game cartridges capable of taking big game (BIG difference there).

GREAT factory ammo is available from several sources, I just received some Hornady 400g ammo in both solid and expanding bullets that I am itching to try.

Lighter bullets are available for practice and smaller game, the cartridge works through a Winchester action, ammo is available in just about any corner of the planet and it WORKS.

MV

Others here have said all I could regarding versatility of the 416. I would choose the Rigby over the Remington because its working pressure is lower. I have killed all three of my ele with a 470 double, but have taken a 416 Rigby along as a backup/ other game rifle. he recoil is manageable, and the trajectory reasonable. It will do anything the 375 H&H will, and then some.

Just went to Laramie to test my new .450 Rigby! For me it was an excellent choice with 480 Woodleigh solids at 2300 fps. Therefore, given the choices for Allout I would probably decide on the Lott or, in second place the .458 Win Mag for all the reasons Ledvm stated.

Dutch

First off there is no such thing as overkill. Dead is Dead! Since you want or desire to hunt Dangerous Game then be prepared to shoot a big bore. The Lott has plenty of horsepower. If s--- hits the fan do you want a minimum gun in your hands.

Mike

Curiously, I have actually met two huntrs who use one caliber for everything. One used a 416 Remington and the other a 404 Jeff. Both were in the SCI multi species quest but felt their one rifle was adequate. I met one at a whitetail ranch and another at an elk hunt. Neither seemed to have much interest in guns but liked hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by dakota45056:
Voted for the 458 Lott because you didn't have a 500 on the list.

Dak

+1

Wow!!!

I suggest some female company...

I have every caliber you listed. I like the 416s and 404J for versatility and carrying.
IIRC, Buzz carries a 416 Rigby and Nixon carries a 416 Rem, lots of Elephants and Buffs between those two.

BTW, you could learn a lot from Will's books.

I voted for the 416 Remmy because I FREAKING LOVE MINE!!!

Just Sayin...

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I voted for the Lott - because it's an elephant rifle and there was nothing bigger on the list.

I choose the Lott because it is the biggest of what you gave us to choose from.

As far as it working on other critters, you can't kill anything too dead and there is no such thing as overkill.

While far from an expert in the subject matter I voted .416 Rem.mag.
.404 Jeff was a close call, however!

I excluded the heavier due to recoil that I cannot manage.
Based on the readings of experienced elephant hunters I think the "correct" answer would have been .458 Lott.

Given the excellent reputation of the .416 in general, bullet availability, and manageable recoil I voted .416.
The same would apply to the .404 Jeff, however. Thinking of other use and practicing plus cost of ammo the .416 wins by a very narrow margin.

Why rem.mag instead of Rigby?
Good question. A more modern proposition plus usually one more round in the magazine. This means better versatility in other hunting.
Also I know of some rem.mag users but only one who has the Rigby. Thus, better option for me from the point of view of load development and case availability.

- Lars/Finland

Wow…this one is from a while ago…
After having spent a couple of months in Zim last year and a couple in RSA…I have seen more than a couple of dead elephants. A lot of blunders. A lot of successes. The righteousness of some calibers, as well as, the lack of ability to impress in others. A very well-worn hunter told me last year in Zim, “You don’t need more than a .458 win for this job {obviously we were talking elephant hunting}. Anything less will get you killed and anything more is just for show.” I did paraphrase just a bit, but you get the idea. I am not saying he was right, or wrong. What I have come to believe is this: Pick a rifle and caliber you shoot better than average with. Then practice. And practice. And then practice some more. Expect everything to go straight to hell. Be prepared to deal with it when it does.
Cheers,
Brian

Lot of bad blood and angry words up there also. Honestly, that all needs to be left exactly where it is...in the past.
There is just more to life than all that.
I do hope some of you, new and old, find some interesting information here.
- B

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I voted for the 458 Win Mag. With North Fork 450 gr solids, it is fairly easy to achieve 2250 fps velocity with either H4895 or AA2230 powder. This rifle has the least recoil of any mentioned except the Jeffery. At the close range of a charge, the difference in a Lott and WM in velocity is probably negligible.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Allout

Forget about all that Bolt Rifle Trash.
Get yourself a good double in the 450/400 to 470 range.

However if you must use a Bolt rifle I would get the 458 Lott, load 500 grainers to @2200fps,
or North Fork 450 Fp and CP solids to 2250fps.

For deer and wild pigs I would load the Hornady 350gr RN to @2300fps.

For even less recoil you can load 300 or 400gr bullets to @1800fps.

PS. Your picture is still in every Cab in Dallas.

Why would you bother with the Lott?

You can get those velocities easily with a 458 WM and a 22" barrel without excessive pressure.

And you can get 2700, not 2300, with a 350 TSX.

quote:

Some folks get a big-ass head around here sometimes.

Pot meet kettle.

Would prefer a double but from this list 458WM. Always ammo and it works.

Getting past the infantile BS above. The question was based on 5-15 elephant hunts. I picked the Lott as some others did only because a large double cartridge was not listed. I would prefer to use my .500 if it was just a elephant hunt. How sum ever I will be taking my Lott hunting elephant in October just because it is new an I need to get some blood on it. I had it built as a compromise Buffalo Elephant rifle as some times Buffalo get shot a little far for the double. I may take some other plains game with it as well. But "no compromise" I dont think anything is better than a big double for Elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Would prefer a double but from this list 458WM. Always ammo and it works.

I agree 100% on the Double. My measly 3 elephant have all been taken with a 500 NE.

But if constrained to bolt guns per his list, I disagree on the 458WM instead of the Lott, especially from the ammo availability angle. Reason being that 458WM ammo can be fired from the Lott. That being said, why go with the WM for any of the reasons given in this thread? The Lott obviously has more capability and if you can't handle the extra recoil just load the Lott down or shoot WM rounds. If you loose your ammo and can only find WM rounds, just shoot the WM ammo. I think the Lott will have a higher resale value. I've owned and sold 2 458 Win Mags. Basically got nothing for them upon the sale because "It would be worth more if it was a Lott!"

I'm sure someone will chime in with the WM fits in a standard length action so can be built in a lighter rifle. Really? Is that what you want, a light weight Elephant Rifle? And how much lighter does the standard length action get you when we are talking about rifles of this recoil level? As far as the standard action being made in a less expensive rifle argument; Really? We ARE talking about hunting 5 to 15 Elephant!! Right?