Let us not forget that somewhere someone is planning their first safari to Africa. Let us not discourage that dream.

I too tend to get discouraged by the seemingly depressing trend I have observed over my short 8 year history in Africa, but I continually remind myself that the authors of some of my favorite African literature lamented the changing attitude, political climate and dwindling opportunities many decades ago, yet it still survives today.

Yes, it has changed. No, there's no going back. To this day, however, there is no greater adventure for a true hunter than wild Africa. Despite the odds, she remains amazingly resilient with a level of attraction that borders on addiction. If my upcoming safari this year was my first, I know I would walk away awestruck and planning my return before I left (just like I did in 2010).

Change is inevitable, and the ability to sustain 7 billion people on this planet has and continues to pressure what we hold so dear. But for those who are about to experience Africa for the first time, it is simply amazing. That first visit becomes your Africa - not Karamojo Bell's Africa, John Taylor's Africa, or Robert Ruark's Africa - but your Africa - and it will own you!

Enough with the negative waves.

I've only been to Africa once for leopard and plains game in Namibia. We had a blast and spent 3 weeks loving life. It was the realization of a dream for my parents and my wife and I. Jeremy 0, Leopard 1.

I'm not done hunting Africa.

I'm working on a plan for elephant in 2020, buffalo and leopard (again) a couple of years after that, and so on. I figure that I've got 40 more years to wander this earth without a walker, and am damn sure not going to waste my time on just whitetails in Indiana. Whitetails are fun, but they aren't what makes my pulse quicken and my mind wander. "Those whitetail look at you like you owe them money", said no one, ever. Hell, I can hunt whitetails with a walker.

So, as long as we have people who care...that would be us brothers and sisters of hunting. And we can talk, write, and donate, there is a lot to be positive about. All is hardly lost. What we can not do is quit. We have to find avenues to get our message to regular folks so they can decide. HSUS puts out a steady stream of fluffy tiger commercials. We put out diddly shit. Make it simple, here is a project we did that improved things, go to our website to find out more. It isn't like these things aren't out there, we don't showcase them. SCI could do this, but as has been stated, they are confounding.

We aren't changing. We're letting change punish us. We aren't adapting to today's message platforms. Not for African hunting. Look at all of the podcasts and youtube channels for western US hunting. All done by young guys and gals that are passionate about strapping on a backpack and wandering the mountains. They are tapping into the organic food movement, and helping shape the younger generations view of hunting as the ultimate in clean living. These folks are the future of hunting in the US. We need to engage them and educate them in our fight.

To end this diatribe, I'll leave you with another movie quote since I started with one: Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

End Rant.

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Enough with the negative waves.

I've only been to Africa once for leopard and plains game in Namibia. We had a blast and spent 3 weeks loving life. It was the realization of a dream for my parents and my wife and I. Jeremy 0, Leopard 1.

I'm not done hunting Africa.

I'm working on a plan for elephant in 2020, buffalo and leopard (again) a couple of years after that, and so on. I figure that I've got 40 more years to wander this earth without a walker, and am damn sure not going to waste my time on just whitetails in Indiana. Whitetails are fun, but they aren't what makes my pulse quicken and my mind wander. "Those whitetail look at you like you owe them money", said no one, ever. Hell, I can hunt whitetails with a walker.

So, as long as we have people who care...that would be us brothers and sisters of hunting. And we can talk, write, and donate, there is a lot to be positive about. All is hardly lost. What we can not do is quit. We have to find avenues to get our message to regular folks so they can decide. HSUS puts out a steady stream of fluffy tiger commercials. We put out diddly shit. Make it simple, here is a project we did that improved things, go to our website to find out more. It isn't like these things aren't out there, we don't showcase them. SCI could do this, but as has been stated, they are confounding.

We aren't changing. We're letting change punish us. We aren't adapting to today's message platforms. Not for African hunting. Look at all of the podcasts and youtube channels for western US hunting. All done by young guys and gals that are passionate about strapping on a backpack and wandering the mountains. They are tapping into the organic food movement, and helping shape the younger generations view of hunting as the ultimate in clean living. These folks are the future of hunting in the US. We need to engage them and educate them in our fight.

To end this diatribe, I'll leave you with another movie quote since I started with one: Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

End Rant.

Jeremy

Exactly!

I have been hunting Africa since the early 80’s, and I am going to continue hunting as long as I am physically able.

There is nothing that can compare to being in the African bush!

I started this thread to ‘renew’ positivity but to also...

...brainstorm ways to improve public image of our way of life and to have impact with regulation setting agencies like USFWS.

Hopefully ensuring our way of life does not die with us.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I started this thread to ‘renew’ positivity but to also...

...brainstorm ways to improve public image of our way of life and to have impact with regulation setting agencies like USFWS.

Hopefully ensuring our way of life does not die with us.

You got that backwards my friend.

WE do not need to improve anything to those bloody idiots in the USFW!

The USFW needs a total change of attitude instead of following a hollies than thou attitude towards hunting in general!

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Enough with the negative waves.

I've only been to Africa once for leopard and plains game in Namibia. We had a blast and spent 3 weeks loving life. It was the realization of a dream for my parents and my wife and I. Jeremy 0, Leopard 1.

I'm not done hunting Africa.

I'm working on a plan for elephant in 2020, buffalo and leopard (again) a couple of years after that, and so on. I figure that I've got 40 more years to wander this earth without a walker, and am damn sure not going to waste my time on just whitetails in Indiana. Whitetails are fun, but they aren't what makes my pulse quicken and my mind wander. "Those whitetail look at you like you owe them money", said no one, ever. Hell, I can hunt whitetails with a walker.

So, as long as we have people who care...that would be us brothers and sisters of hunting. And we can talk, write, and donate, there is a lot to be positive about. All is hardly lost. What we can not do is quit. We have to find avenues to get our message to regular folks so they can decide. HSUS puts out a steady stream of fluffy tiger commercials. We put out diddly shit. Make it simple, here is a project we did that improved things, go to our website to find out more. It isn't like these things aren't out there, we don't showcase them. SCI could do this, but as has been stated, they are confounding.

We aren't changing. We're letting change punish us. We aren't adapting to today's message platforms. Not for African hunting. Look at all of the podcasts and youtube channels for western US hunting. All done by young guys and gals that are passionate about strapping on a backpack and wandering the mountains. They are tapping into the organic food movement, and helping shape the younger generations view of hunting as the ultimate in clean living. These folks are the future of hunting in the US. We need to engage them and educate them in our fight.

To end this diatribe, I'll leave you with another movie quote since I started with one: Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

End Rant.

Jeremy

At the risk of being called Moriarty, part of the difficulty with the new crop of hunters is precisely the tie in with food. You can’t bring food back from Africa, which in the end makes you a trophy hunter. This doesn’t sit well with a lot of the new folks - it’s ALL about the connections between land and meat. The Africa question is a hard one to get them to think about. It’s also far more complex than here in America.

But to echo your last point...that’s goddam right...

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Enough with the negative waves.

I've only been to Africa once for leopard and plains game in Namibia. We had a blast and spent 3 weeks loving life. It was the realization of a dream for my parents and my wife and I. Jeremy 0, Leopard 1.

I'm not done hunting Africa.

I'm working on a plan for elephant in 2020, buffalo and leopard (again) a couple of years after that, and so on. I figure that I've got 40 more years to wander this earth without a walker, and am damn sure not going to waste my time on just whitetails in Indiana. Whitetails are fun, but they aren't what makes my pulse quicken and my mind wander. "Those whitetail look at you like you owe them money", said no one, ever. Hell, I can hunt whitetails with a walker.

So, as long as we have people who care...that would be us brothers and sisters of hunting. And we can talk, write, and donate, there is a lot to be positive about. All is hardly lost. What we can not do is quit. We have to find avenues to get our message to regular folks so they can decide. HSUS puts out a steady stream of fluffy tiger commercials. We put out diddly shit. Make it simple, here is a project we did that improved things, go to our website to find out more. It isn't like these things aren't out there, we don't showcase them. SCI could do this, but as has been stated, they are confounding.

We aren't changing. We're letting change punish us. We aren't adapting to today's message platforms. Not for African hunting. Look at all of the podcasts and youtube channels for western US hunting. All done by young guys and gals that are passionate about strapping on a backpack and wandering the mountains. They are tapping into the organic food movement, and helping shape the younger generations view of hunting as the ultimate in clean living. These folks are the future of hunting in the US. We need to engage them and educate them in our fight.

To end this diatribe, I'll leave you with another movie quote since I started with one: Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

End Rant.

Jeremy

At the risk of being called Moriarty, part of the difficulty with the new crop of hunters is precisely the tie in with food. You can’t bring food back from Africa, which in the end makes you a trophy hunter. This doesn’t sit well with a lot of the new folks - it’s ALL about the connections between land and meat. The Africa question is a hard one to get them to think about. It’s also far more complex than here in America.

But to echo your last point...that’s goddam right...

May be these are the same idiots calling hunting “harvesting”!?

What an utterly stupid world to use in a hunt.

One harvests potatoes, not Cape buffalo

It is called "Peer Pressure" and it is and can be an extremely strong force in an individuals life on several levels.

Even here in North America, with very few exceptions in limited areas, subsistence hunting has pretty well died out and the vast majority of Americans and Canadians hunt because they enjoy and a large portion of them mainly hunt for trophies with meat being of secondary importance.

The attitude of the Public in general World Wide, has shifted on the issue of hunting in general and hunting for trophies in particular.

A lot of hunters, while having friends that hunt probably know and deal with more folks that don't hunt and those folks don't understand the base need hunters have to hunt.

I feel very fortunate in living in an area where hunting is still a pretty well accepted way of life, and most of those that don't hunt will happily take freshly butchered deer or hog meat.

Some hunters aren't that fortunate and live and work around folks that don't share those beliefs. I believe a lot of us or probably most of us that participate on these type sites do so because we are surroiunded in our daily lives that don't share our beliefs on hunting or guns.

That is why I started joining such sites before I retired from the zoo, because I was surrounded by folks that did not have a rosy view of hunting/hunters/Gun Owners.

I mentioned on another thread, I think the defense of hunting in Africa on the premise that such hunting provides protein for a protein-deprived people, while accurate, is far from the best argument in support of hunting in Africa. The fact is that all the game meat taken by hunters in Africa is only going to feed an infinitesimal number of people and even then is going to only provide them with a very small portion of their total diet. The argument is correct and it makes us feel good, but the reality of the argument is that it is pretty tepid.

The better argument to me is the exponential rate at which habitat is being lost in Africa. We all, hunters and non-hunters, support the preservation of species like lions, buffalo, elephant, plains game, etc. To preserve those species we must preserve the habitat that supports those species. The biggest threat to habitat loss is population growth. Since 1950 the population in Africa has increased almost five fold. Between now and 2050 the population is expected to more than double from 1.2 billion to 2.5 billion. With an increasing number of people competing for a dwindling amount of available habitat, you have to find ways to preserve habitat. Some can be done with national parks and game sanctuaries but that takes money, money that in many cases the governments do not have (not to mention the political will to carve out property and withhold it from local people). Some can be done through photographic safari areas but that takes areas where the game populations and viewing conditions are adequate to support that industry. Some can and must be done through the money supplied by regulated off take hunting. If you cannot provide a way to preserve habitat, habitat will continue to be lost to agriculture, timber harvesting, subsistence farming and ranching, etc. . . . and that loss of habitat will ultimately translate into the loss of many species we all support preserving.

Really great post on the issue.

Folks,

I am the CEO of SCI and I was just admitted to posting on this site. I read through all of the comments on this thread and I agree with a lot of your observations about where African hunting is today.

My observation post has been largely through CITES. I helped to write that treaty when I was with the US Fish and Wildlife Service and was the first administrator of it for the US. CITES was the first treaty to allow non-government organizations (NGOs) to participate as a matter of right. NGOs can't vote, but they can have a lot of influence on the government representatives that do get a vote, particularly when they can mount a public relations campaign back in the homes of many of the government representatives. I watched CITES get quickly hi-jacked by animal rights and anti-hunting organizations. They always picked visible species that could stir emotions, like the whales. There was a theory, which I think is correct, that these antis learned their trade as anti-Vietnam war protestors. They used street theater to grab media attention.

The explosion of social media has played right into their hands. Now anyone can say anything whether they know what they are talking about or not. When enough people spread the gossip it starts to have political force. Just look at what happened last year when British Columbia banned the sport hunting of grizzly bear purely on political grounds. That campaign was pursued for nearly 20 years by the International Fund for Animal Welfare. The same kind of effort is underway in Arizona about mountain lion and bobcat hunting, driven by HSUS on the same basis -- simply anti-hunting.

SCI and our sister organization, the SCI Foundation, have been out there in CITES-land pushing the hunting message, spending money on conservation and anti-poaching on the ground. There have been others as well, but SCI has been there consistently and persistently. I think it's fair to say that without our presence the game would have been over years ago. The pro-hunting presence in CITES is miniscule compared to the numbers of NGOs and the number of people they bring to lobby against hunting.

In my opinion the single largest factor in CITES has been the European Union (EU). Besides the fact that they vote as a block, they spend a lot of money in Africa. When you put it all together, the EU has a lot of influence in CITES decisions. Since about 2005, the EU has focused more and more on hunting and the shipment of trophies. Anyone who knows anything about the growth of the influence of the Green Party in Europe can figure out why.

Recently SCI has had a resurgence of activism in Europe and we are engaged with organizations like FACE and CIC to make the pro-hunting case directly to the European Parliament. Earlier this month, for example, our three organizations and one other, called ELO, sponsored a presentation to EU legislators by representatives from several of the southern African hunting nations. The point made by the Africans was that they know how to manage their own wildlife in the face of continuing human population growth and competing land uses, and hunting plays an important role.

So the game is not over. But there are days when it feels like a tug of war with 100 people on one end of the rope and three or four of us on the other end.

Rick Parsons, CEO, SCI

Welcome to AR and Many Thanks for the information.

Rick thanks for posting that. I do have a question for you. When you say "SCI and our sister organization, the SCI Foundation, have been out there in CITES-land pushing the hunting message, spending money on conservation and anti-poaching on the ground." can you be more specific?

How much money does SCI invest in Africa annually and specifically what countries and on what conservation and anti-poaching initiatives? Take 2017 for instance.

I hear folks talk about it a lot but never see any facts or numbers.

Rick, thank you for coming on AR!

I too would like to see some specifics if you don't mind.

Rick, welcome, and thanks for helping us understand what SCI is working on.

Baxter: The link to the meat is simple to make, but to my point, we (those who understand African Hunting) don't showcase it to make the connection. A time lapse of the locals breaking down an elephant would speak volumes. A hundred people lined up for their portion is a very powerful message. The link to African hunting is diminished, but we can use this to rebuild that link.

It's all in the spin and how it is presented. Offer the right hook, and then they'll dig a little deeper. Hey look at the drinker we put in for sheep in AZ or UT, click here to see a project in Zambia. Want to see how to feed a village? Here's how one trophy hunter accomplished just that.

We can redefine the meaning of Trophy Hunter to the average Joe. Tough to do, but not impossible.

Jeremy

Rick,

Thank you for coming to AR.

A very warm welcome to you, and I hope we can have meaningful discussions on hunting.

SCI and all of us as hunters should be working together to make sure our future generations enjoy what we have been enjoying hunting.

You and Paul participating here is a very positive step, and I am sure I speak for many of our members here that we appreciate you both joining us.

With all due respect, frankly it does not seem to me that CITES is where we are losing the battle. It is not CITES that has banned the importation of lion and elephant trophies. The battle appears to be being lost at home. I am not trying to diminish the critical role that CITES plays and the need to be active within CITES, but the post above seems to infer that CITES is the battleground. If the Administration and USFWS were prepared to simply abide by the determinations of CITES (since after all we do participate as a member country) at this point that would be a major step forward.

I believe that SCI should make a greater effort in getting the conservation message across to the whole public.That and that hunters are good people with good values.Perhaps by using popular media or communication outlets that are not only viewed by hunters.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I believe that SCI should make a greater effort in getting the conservation message across to the whole public.That and that hunters are good people with good values.Perhaps by using popular media or communication outlets that are not only viewed by hunters.

This is from the current issue of Safari Magazine, Rick Parson’s column. Sounds like they are planning to do what you (and many others) suggested.

Ledvm started an excellent thread here.

Rick, in addition to responding to the comment on CITES above, I neglected to ask, why hasn't SCI adopted, and would SCI ever consider adopting, Principles of Fair Chase along the lines of those promulgated by The Boone and Crockett Club?

THE FAIR CHASE HUNTER:

• Knows and obeys the law, and insists others do as well
• Understands that it is not only about just what is legal, but also what is honorable and ethical
• Defines "unfair advantage" as when the game does not have reasonable chance of escape
• Cares about and respects all wildlife and the ecosystems that support them, which includes making full use of game animals taken
• Measures success not in the quantity of game taken, but by the quality of the chase
• Embraces the "no guarantees" nature of hunting
• Uses technology in a way that does not diminish the importance of developing skills as a hunter or reduces hunting to just shooting
• Knows his or her limitations, and stretches the stalk not the shot
• Takes pride in the decisions he or she makes in the field and takes full responsibility for his or her actions

[Boone and Crockett Club Principles of Fair Chase]

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Enough with the negative waves.

I've only been to Africa once for leopard and plains game in Namibia. We had a blast and spent 3 weeks loving life. It was the realization of a dream for my parents and my wife and I. Jeremy 0, Leopard 1.

I'm not done hunting Africa.

I'm working on a plan for elephant in 2020, buffalo and leopard (again) a couple of years after that, and so on. I figure that I've got 40 more years to wander this earth without a walker, and am damn sure not going to waste my time on just whitetails in Indiana. Whitetails are fun, but they aren't what makes my pulse quicken and my mind wander. "Those whitetail look at you like you owe them money", said no one, ever. Hell, I can hunt whitetails with a walker.

So, as long as we have people who care...that would be us brothers and sisters of hunting. And we can talk, write, and donate, there is a lot to be positive about. All is hardly lost. What we can not do is quit. We have to find avenues to get our message to regular folks so they can decide. HSUS puts out a steady stream of fluffy tiger commercials. We put out diddly shit. Make it simple, here is a project we did that improved things, go to our website to find out more. It isn't like these things aren't out there, we don't showcase them. SCI could do this, but as has been stated, they are confounding.

We aren't changing. We're letting change punish us. We aren't adapting to today's message platforms. Not for African hunting. Look at all of the podcasts and youtube channels for western US hunting. All done by young guys and gals that are passionate about strapping on a backpack and wandering the mountains. They are tapping into the organic food movement, and helping shape the younger generations view of hunting as the ultimate in clean living. These folks are the future of hunting in the US. We need to engage them and educate them in our fight.

To end this diatribe, I'll leave you with another movie quote since I started with one: Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

End Rant.

Jeremy

Exactly!

I have been hunting Africa since the early 80’s, and I am going to continue hunting as long as I am physically able.

There is nothing that can compare to being in the African bush!

I would agree Saeed! The only "adventure" I ever considered greater than my exploits to Africa - was my Polar Bear hunt. That aside, nothing has ever really compared to the African bush!!!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Rick, in addition to responding to the comment on CITES above, I neglected to ask, why hasn't SCI adopted, and would SCI ever consider adopting, Principles of Fair Chase along the lines of those promulgated by The Boone and Crockett Club?

THE FAIR CHASE HUNTER:

• Knows and obeys the law, and insists others do as well
• Understands that it is not only about just what is legal, but also what is honorable and ethical
• Defines "unfair advantage" as when the game does not have reasonable chance of escape
• Cares about and respects all wildlife and the ecosystems that support them, which includes making full use of game animals taken
• Measures success not in the quantity of game taken, but by the quality of the chase
• Embraces the "no guarantees" nature of hunting
• Uses technology in a way that does not diminish the importance of developing skills as a hunter or reduces hunting to just shooting
• Knows his or her limitations, and stretches the stalk not the shot
• Takes pride in the decisions he or she makes in the field and takes full responsibility for his or her actions

[Boone and Crockett Club Principles of Fair Chase]

And unless I have the info wrong, the concept of fair chase was instilled in the group at the first meeting in 1888. Meaning it’s been a hell of a long time SCI et al., have had the chance to adopt a similar ideology and push the org in that direction.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:
Enough with the negative waves.

I've only been to Africa once for leopard and plains game in Namibia. We had a blast and spent 3 weeks loving life. It was the realization of a dream for my parents and my wife and I. Jeremy 0, Leopard 1.

I'm not done hunting Africa.

I'm working on a plan for elephant in 2020, buffalo and leopard (again) a couple of years after that, and so on. I figure that I've got 40 more years to wander this earth without a walker, and am damn sure not going to waste my time on just whitetails in Indiana. Whitetails are fun, but they aren't what makes my pulse quicken and my mind wander. "Those whitetail look at you like you owe them money", said no one, ever. Hell, I can hunt whitetails with a walker.

So, as long as we have people who care...that would be us brothers and sisters of hunting. And we can talk, write, and donate, there is a lot to be positive about. All is hardly lost. What we can not do is quit. We have to find avenues to get our message to regular folks so they can decide. HSUS puts out a steady stream of fluffy tiger commercials. We put out diddly shit. Make it simple, here is a project we did that improved things, go to our website to find out more. It isn't like these things aren't out there, we don't showcase them. SCI could do this, but as has been stated, they are confounding.

We aren't changing. We're letting change punish us. We aren't adapting to today's message platforms. Not for African hunting. Look at all of the podcasts and youtube channels for western US hunting. All done by young guys and gals that are passionate about strapping on a backpack and wandering the mountains. They are tapping into the organic food movement, and helping shape the younger generations view of hunting as the ultimate in clean living. These folks are the future of hunting in the US. We need to engage them and educate them in our fight.

To end this diatribe, I'll leave you with another movie quote since I started with one: Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

End Rant.

Jeremy

At the risk of being called Moriarty, part of the difficulty with the new crop of hunters is precisely the tie in with food. You can’t bring food back from Africa, which in the end makes you a trophy hunter. This doesn’t sit well with a lot of the new folks - it’s ALL about the connections between land and meat. The Africa question is a hard one to get them to think about. It’s also far more complex than here in America.

But to echo your last point...that’s goddam right...

Holy cow folks....is this ever a more winning comment?? I have been saying this for several years now.....this whole I hunt for "food" crap is killing and dividing the hunting world, and "we" hunters are responsible for it. Jeremy, these goofball hunters who subscribe to this "I hunt for food" garbage don't believe it anymore than you / I do. They've created this narrative as an easy alternative / excuse for why "they" hunt....simply hoping to eliminate the critics, while trying to justify to them as well - why "we" hunt. Its just silly!

Name a place in N.A. today where folks are reliant on subsistence hunting for "survival" and I'll call you a liar....period. And yes, I've pretty much seen / hunted with em all...the native Americans in the lower 48, the Inuits, the Alaskan natives, etc, etc. They all get Government subsidies, they have means to provide "food" without hunting, including every FB / social media hunter I have ever known! Now look, I don't mean to insinuate we all don't like the meat, want the meat, and hunt for the meat - surely many of us do. I for one love wild game - but this silly notion that I hunt to "feed my family" is just a bunch of complete non-sense / and pandering to the anti-hunting crowd for self acceptance. The average "hunter" spends WAY more money on licenses, camo, optics, guns / bows, ammo, calls, decoys, stands, scents, travel, arrows / broadheads, and HUNTS, than they could ever spend at the grocery store buying "meat".....so lets drop the act already!!!

In the meantime, the "I hunt to feed my family" crowd has created a huge divide amongst the hunting community - as seen in the eyes of the antis / non-hunters. We have created this "if I am hunting to feed my family" narrative, its OK, but if I am hunting for a "trophy" its NOT! What a total crock!!! I have no less than 5,000 FB friends - and everyday my feed is filled with trophy pics, what camo should I buy, what's the best call / treestand, where the best location for a trophy this, that or the other - while at the same time, many are pledging the "I hunt for Food" narrative! Gimme a break!!! You might enjoy the "meat", but you are not solely reliant on it for survival!

What just happened in B.C. with the Grizzly, and what you see on social media now - is a prime example. B.C. strongly considered the continued allowance of Grizzly bear hunting, but not in a trophy capacity. Although it did not pass - the consideration was to allow grizzly hunting, but the hide (trophy) was to remain in the field, while all of the meat was to be packed out / consumed! Seriously?? No doubt plenty of hunters would have paid $15,000 for that?!?!?! A recent poll just showed that 74% of Canadians are opposed to "trophy" hunting, while most are ok with hunting for food / subsistence! Ya, cause there's a difference - right???!!! I have no doubt, 99% of my FB friends / followers would pass the 180" whitetail buck for the 1.5 yr old spike - cause he's a lot more appetizing?! Tell that story to someone who knows better......

The point is, be careful what you portray....cause you just might get it! First they abolish "trophy" hunting, then they'll abolish all hunting!

Aaron, I completely agree with your statement.

Aaron,

Th more acceptable justification is: "We kill them so they don't starve to death."

Aaron,

You are correct. My job requires subtle directing of folks, and that is the tact I take as a rule. The approach that I find that works is to suggest something, then mention it later, again later, then eventually, it is their idea, and I don't have to do anything further.

If you want the blunt approach, here goes.

We each hunt for our own personal reasons. I hunt for fun, a trophy, food, conservation......bullshit, I hunt because I want to and enjoy the hell out of it for a variety of reasons. Conservation of the wildlife is critical to that end, so I value it equally.

The feed the family message can be used to our advantage. Use it.

My point, perhaps, not well articulated. Pull no punches. Rule number one in marketing is know your audience. If we can reach a person with some message, use that message. If a different message reaches another person, use that.

I gave an example of what is working with a younger group of hunters. We NEED the younger hunters. NEED them. If you think differently, you are fooling yourself. Our legacy, and what we love, dies with us otherwise. Engage them, and convince them that conservation in all countries is important. One possible way it to leverage the organic food movement. There are other ways, this is just a thought.

Find the sympathy vote and exploit the shit out of it. Spin your message to fit. We're not fighting ethical, law abiding, and rules based people. We are up against people, in the loosest sense of the word, that have firmly stated humans are secondary to animals. They will do what it takes, will we?

Jeremy

IMO hunters should not be ashamed to say why they like to hunt.Best is to just be honest.No need to hide anything.If you want to go over to Africa and get a zebra hide for a rug then good for you.The fact is that hunters keep wild game species alive and conserve their wild habitat.This fact cannot be denied and is our main weapon in this fight.We need data, records,surveys,and other evidence to help us get our message across to average folks, of all ages.Keeping a clean image of ourselves while in the field will in no doubt help too.

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Originally posted by MJines:
Rick, in addition to responding to the comment on CITES above, I neglected to ask, why hasn't SCI adopted, and would SCI ever consider adopting, Principles of Fair Chase along the lines of those promulgated by The Boone and Crockett Club?

THE FAIR CHASE HUNTER:

• Knows and obeys the law, and insists others do as well
• Understands that it is not only about just what is legal, but also what is honorable and ethical
• Defines "unfair advantage" as when the game does not have reasonable chance of escape
• Cares about and respects all wildlife and the ecosystems that support them, which includes making full use of game animals taken
• Measures success not in the quantity of game taken, but by the quality of the chase
• Embraces the "no guarantees" nature of hunting
• Uses technology in a way that does not diminish the importance of developing skills as a hunter or reduces hunting to just shooting
• Knows his or her limitations, and stretches the stalk not the shot
• Takes pride in the decisions he or she makes in the field and takes full responsibility for his or her actions

[Boone and Crockett Club Principles of Fair Chase]

Every hunter should memorize this and be able to recall it out by heart before every hunt.

I.just read my old books about Africa of the good old days it was finished being wild after WW II.I like the days of Teddy Roosevelt ,Samual Baker ,Martin and Osa Johnson .It was truly wild them with lots of safe places to hunt even Kenya was a paradise not any more .They had to put the animals inside the fences in the 80s and 90s to protect them from the people .Africa is only.28 percent wilderness now .It's hard to believe hunting there is disappearing before our eyes but it is .Africa will crash one day with too many people not enough food and no money sooner than later .South Africa which use to be awesome is a dangerous place now nothing like it use to be .The world is a changing place not all good either .Soon the African hunting camp fire will just be on here just stories of the good old days !

Would it be impossible for SCI to put an informative one page add in a popular newspaper or a TV commercial or anything along those lines? So far we have not seen anything that can pack a punch.If not possible is SCI at least aiming to do so?

You might want to recheck your history, TR was well before WWII as I believe was Sir Samuel Baker.

Yes, those were times that will never be seen again.

That's what I ment after WW II the wild Africa disappeared quick .Teddy Roosevelt ,the Johnson's were the last adventure explorers before that war .Today's Africa hunting in a fenced pen so the animals stay safe just has no appeal to.Me .I.lived in Alaska 12 years lived off the land and off the grid for the most part .We hunted for meat no trophy .People threw moose horns out in the yard or sold them .It really changed my view on hunting .I took and taught 15 kids to hunt who still all hunt 20 years later .If you don't teach your kids to hunt kids trophies and guns are just junk for them to get rid of later .I wish I had taught 50 kids there to hunt just one of me and 15 over 12 years was alot .I think oboma did alot of harm to the Ecompany dropped to nothing and people quit going on trips that and 911 .I had to.live in Alaska to be able to afford to hunt it and still I.couldn't do all the things I wanted to do was building my own house too .Take a kid hunting and teach him well it's the best thing you will do for hunting !

Good response Sir.

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Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

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Originally posted by BaxterB:

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Originally posted by farbedo:
Enough with the negative waves.

I've only been to Africa once for leopard and plains game in Namibia. We had a blast and spent 3 weeks loving life. It was the realization of a dream for my parents and my wife and I. Jeremy 0, Leopard 1.

I'm not done hunting Africa.

I'm working on a plan for elephant in 2020, buffalo and leopard (again) a couple of years after that, and so on. I figure that I've got 40 more years to wander this earth without a walker, and am damn sure not going to waste my time on just whitetails in Indiana. Whitetails are fun, but they aren't what makes my pulse quicken and my mind wander. "Those whitetail look at you like you owe them money", said no one, ever. Hell, I can hunt whitetails with a walker.

So, as long as we have people who care...that would be us brothers and sisters of hunting. And we can talk, write, and donate, there is a lot to be positive about. All is hardly lost. What we can not do is quit. We have to find avenues to get our message to regular folks so they can decide. HSUS puts out a steady stream of fluffy tiger commercials. We put out diddly shit. Make it simple, here is a project we did that improved things, go to our website to find out more. It isn't like these things aren't out there, we don't showcase them. SCI could do this, but as has been stated, they are confounding.

We aren't changing. We're letting change punish us. We aren't adapting to today's message platforms. Not for African hunting. Look at all of the podcasts and youtube channels for western US hunting. All done by young guys and gals that are passionate about strapping on a backpack and wandering the mountains. They are tapping into the organic food movement, and helping shape the younger generations view of hunting as the ultimate in clean living. These folks are the future of hunting in the US. We need to engage them and educate them in our fight.

To end this diatribe, I'll leave you with another movie quote since I started with one: Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'.

End Rant.

Jeremy

At the risk of being called Moriarty, part of the difficulty with the new crop of hunters is precisely the tie in with food. You can’t bring food back from Africa, which in the end makes you a trophy hunter. This doesn’t sit well with a lot of the new folks - it’s ALL about the connections between land and meat. The Africa question is a hard one to get them to think about. It’s also far more complex than here in America.

But to echo your last point...that’s goddam right...

Holy cow folks....is this ever a more winning comment?? I have been saying this for several years now.....this whole I hunt for "food" crap is killing and dividing the hunting world, and "we" hunters are responsible for it. Jeremy, these goofball hunters who subscribe to this "I hunt for food" garbage don't believe it anymore than you / I do. They've created this narrative as an easy alternative / excuse for why "they" hunt....simply hoping to eliminate the critics, while trying to justify to them as well - why "we" hunt. Its just silly!

Name a place in N.A. today where folks are reliant on subsistence hunting for "survival" and I'll call you a liar....period. And yes, I've pretty much seen / hunted with em all...the native Americans in the lower 48, the Inuits, the Alaskan natives, etc, etc. They all get Government subsidies, they have means to provide "food" without hunting, including every FB / social media hunter I have ever known! Now look, I don't mean to insinuate we all don't like the meat, want the meat, and hunt for the meat - surely many of us do. I for one love wild game - but this silly notion that I hunt to "feed my family" is just a bunch of complete non-sense / and pandering to the anti-hunting crowd for self acceptance. The average "hunter" spends WAY more money on licenses, camo, optics, guns / bows, ammo, calls, decoys, stands, scents, travel, arrows / broadheads, and HUNTS, than they could ever spend at the grocery store buying "meat".....so lets drop the act already!!!

In the meantime, the "I hunt to feed my family" crowd has created a huge divide amongst the hunting community - as seen in the eyes of the antis / non-hunters. We have created this "if I am hunting to feed my family" narrative, its OK, but if I am hunting for a "trophy" its NOT! What a total crock!!! I have no less than 5,000 FB friends - and everyday my feed is filled with trophy pics, what camo should I buy, what's the best call / treestand, where the best location for a trophy this, that or the other - while at the same time, many are pledging the "I hunt for Food" narrative! Gimme a break!!! You might enjoy the "meat", but you are not solely reliant on it for survival!

What just happened in B.C. with the Grizzly, and what you see on social media now - is a prime example. B.C. strongly considered the continued allowance of Grizzly bear hunting, but not in a trophy capacity. Although it did not pass - the consideration was to allow grizzly hunting, but the hide (trophy) was to remain in the field, while all of the meat was to be packed out / consumed! Seriously?? No doubt plenty of hunters would have paid $15,000 for that?!?!?! A recent poll just showed that 74% of Canadians are opposed to "trophy" hunting, while most are ok with hunting for food / subsistence! Ya, cause there's a difference - right???!!! I have no doubt, 99% of my FB friends / followers would pass the 180" whitetail buck for the 1.5 yr old spike - cause he's a lot more appetizing?! Tell that story to someone who knows better......

The point is, be careful what you portray....cause you just might get it! First they abolish "trophy" hunting, then they'll abolish all hunting!

Thats a great piece of good old fashioned Southern prose Brother.

The way that I see it is that if the masses accept hunting for food then we simply need to present what we do in Africa in a more palatable manner.

Get the message of land protection and the attached communities out there. Gotta help Africans raise awareness of their natural resources. Maybe make our own 'Trophy' film?

Aaron I must say that although I agree with most of what your saying I do feel you are also contributing to hunters being pigeon holed and labeled into the trophy hunter only saying no one hunts for subsistence purposes. It is this labelling with a narrow minded brush that will end hunting and you have forgotten about those that choose to eat as organic as possible possibly forgetting about that point of view. Listen, I love to eat elk meat and so does my family but do we rely on it no what if I don’t get drawn for it then I can hunt it. That doesn’t take away from the fact that this is what we want to eat instead of the hormone pumped beef offered in stores. And we also enjoy ruffed grouse for its table fare and organic meat eating wild clover and rose hips. The antis have portrayed hunters as trophy hunters only concerned with the size of the rack and while this part of the hunting world may be true it’s not all just about the size of the rack. We all must be careful not to label ourselves as just the hunter Because hunters are much more than that! Hunters fall under the umbrella of organic , honest , leaders , mentors, traditions and stuards of the land!

I have also as brother Baldry mentioned suggested filming and spreading the hunting message to the general public instead of only to ourselves. It’s about time we tell our story!

I do not think anyone is saying that the argument that hunting helps to feed protein deprived Africans, helps provide food for families, supports the locavore movement, etc. is an argument that should not be used in defense of hunting. We need to use all the arrows in our quiver. I think it is simply being pointed out that that particular argument has some weaknesses and that other arguments might hold up to scrutiny better. I support using any and all credible arguments available to us . . . let's just understand which are better than others.

It is surreal how fragmented the hunting community has become - we have the ethical hunter, the legal hunter, the trophy hunter, the meat hunter, the traditional hunter, the long range hunter, the caned animal shooter, the farm/high fence/put and take shooter, the discriminate hunter, the volume shooter and the wilderness hunter - I'm sure I've missed some. And all parties are telling everyone else they have it right and everyone else is wrong.


Little wonder why the unified anti-hunters are winning.

So we need to find what unifies us and decide on what message we want to send to world.

We are not fragmented we are diversified as hunters and that’s a great thing!