quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H: ... I would sooner trust my life to him with nothing but a feather in his hands than any of the trigger happy fools I see calling themselves "big game hunters" as most of them could not tell the difference between a charging elephant and the back of a bus. ...

Second!

We all know thEre is time when we get overconfident and that's when things go wrong
No matter who you are, no place for this especially with clients
I've hunted with PH's that hunted elephants lot longer and they don't push their luck and always face them with gun barrels first

If ivan wants to play thats his right--

BUT

its damned irresponsible to put others into that kind of situation-

and no you can't tell me it just happened-the photographer is way to far back-that situation was set up by Ivan.

The are a lot of people who knew elephants and are dead. Stupid is as stupid does. Let the guy show boat all he wants as long as it is only he who is in danger.

Yes, it is dangerous.

But:
- Ivan is an full pro PH
- He can "read" eles like we can read newspapers
- Maybe "the best man in moment" for that kind of szenarios with wild eles
- The clients knows the "risks" and they ask for "action" like this

quote:

The clients knows the "risks" and they ask for "action" like this

Actually no, they probably don't know the risks-and thats the problem with this whole scene-

Most clients do not know the risks and it is the job of a PH never to take un-necessary chances with any client's life. The first time the little showboat stick goes bad and the animal does not stomp his foot as it has done a thousand times before and stomps you it is too late for Mr. Hollywood to turn the rifle in the proper directions. Sorry that is dangerous, showboating and not professional. The bloody Cemetaries are littered with people who thought they knew the animals, except for the last time when the were fitted for a match box. Familiarity breeds contempt an that leads many times to being dead.

Tough to use super glue to put someone back together after an elephant flattens them.

Safety and respect for your quarry is always paramount, no room for the Hollywood nonsense.

I like a PH to be dead serious around ele.Alan Shearing was very cautious whenever we were anywhere near ele.I remember him telling me to put a solid in my chamber as we were around ele.I remember saying to myself get ready for anything.

100 % correct!

I think of this as the ``cool factor`` Its like ``hey look ,your scared and I am not`` ``leave your rifle behind you wont need it``

I have seen Ivan doing this sort of thing for as long as I've been watching him. His understanding of Elephant behavior is far superior than 99.9% who post here or anywhere else, me included. If one wants all danger removed from a safari then one probably shouldn't be on safari.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I have seen Ivan doing this sort of thing for as long as I've been watching him. His understanding of Elephant behavior is far superior than 99.9% who post here or anywhere else, me included. If one wants all danger removed from a safari then one probably shouldn't be on safari.

I have nothing against this as long as I carry my rifle and you pay the fine should there be one.Just dont tell me to leave my f...ing rifle behind.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I have seen Ivan doing this sort of thing for as long as I've been watching him. His understanding of Elephant behavior is far superior than 99.9% who post here or anywhere else, me included. If one wants all danger removed from a safari then one probably shouldn't be on safari.

You believe the guy can hypnotize the ele?

quote:

I have seen Ivan doing this sort of thing for as long as I've been watching him. His understanding of Elephant behavior is far superior than 99.9% who post here or anywhere else, me included. If one wants all danger removed from a safari then one probably shouldn't be on safari.

That is absolutly correct.

And:
Ivan is very well-know.
And everybody who comes with him on safari (no matter hunting or photo) knows the risks then they are so "closed" to eles.

[/QUOTE]
You believe the guy can hypnotize the ele?[/QUOTE]

I believe that you think you know a lot from one picture.

I have to side with Shootaway
In the end, no matter how good any PH is, you are the client so you are the one that is most responsible for its own life
Nothing wrong to remind PH that you care for your own well being
People here on AR. That hunted elephants know it and we all know how dangerous they are
Like I said before, the only way to face any elephants is with the barrel of your gun and solids in the chamber
Anybody does otherwise, being even the most experienced is extremely irresponsible and dangerous and downright stupid

Another name comes to mind...Timothy Treadwell. Spent years around bears and "knew" their behaviours. Probably got closer to a lot of bears than anyone else. Look where he ended up. One day, he will misread an animal and it will catch up to him.

One small difference, Timothy Treadwell didnt carry a 450 NE…

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
One small difference, Timothy Treadwell didnt carry a 450 NE…

Would you consider the carry position in the photograph to be useful for self defense?

I believe he could put the rifle to "battery" quickly enough…Like I said before in his videos and Tv shows he has waved his rifle around to stop an aggressive or inquisitive ele and often if the animal gets too close he shoulders the rifle.

And I'm not sure why everyone thinks the client has no rifle, I can think of several ways he could be holding it that would be hidden from the camera.

Do we "know" this is a photo Safari or was it just implied or assumed?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I carry my rifle and you pay the fine should there be one.

You mean like the fine you incurred for shooting a buffalo cow when there were none left on quota because, as you say ... you took it upon yourself to bring back meat for the camp? That fine?

That is Ivan and I believe the woman on the right trying to make an exit is an artist whose subject was elephant.

And keep in mind, it wasn't the raised rifle that kept the elephant from charging, it was Ivan saying, "Ima smack the shit out of you if you come any closer," that made his stop. Ivan is just that kind of guy.

Ivan Carter, yep, looks like him.
Maybe one day he will get wind of this thread and explain what this BS posing is about?
It is not nice to make fun of elephants this way.

quote:

Timothy Treadwell.

Also happened to get some of the most amazing footage of bears. I'm apparently one of the few who give the guy some credit for risking his life for something he was passionate about. Few can say the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I carry my rifle and you pay the fine should there be one.

You mean like the fine you incurred for shooting a buffalo cow when there were none left on quota because, as you say ... you took it upon yourself to bring back meat for the camp? That fine?

+1

Too funny

quote:

Maybe one day he will get wind of this thread and explain what this BS posing is about?

Sorry RIP, Ivan doesn't owe any of us an explanation. It is his and his client's business, period.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
What do they say about people who become over confident in themselves?

Rest in peace.

I'm sorry. I don't care who the man with the gun is or how much experience he has. He is not being prudent. He is showboating. Why, for example, is he holding the gun up by the barrels when he could do the same thing with his hand on the grip? And if he is there for the protection of the tourists/photographers he is endangering them just as much as, or perhaps more than, himself. The photo reminds me of Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter. He also thought he knew animals enough to predict their behaviors and he too became complacent. Eventually, it cost him his life.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Awwww...after the clients were gone, Ivan and the bull got together for a beer and a smoke to discuss the photo op......
Mad Dog

Ivan split his tip with the elephant 50:50.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I'm sorry. I don't care who the man with the gun is or how much experience he has. He is not being prudent. He is showboating. Why, for example, is he holding the gun up by the barrels when he could do the same thing with his hand on the grip?

One end is thicker than the other - you can see it quite clearly.

OK - so has anyone actually seen the video of this??

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I believe he could put the rifle to "battery" quickly enough…Like I said before in his videos and Tv shows he has waved his rifle around to stop an aggressive or inquisitive ele and often if the animal gets too close he shoulders the rifle.

And I'm not sure why everyone thinks the client has no rifle, I can think of several ways he could be holding it that would be hidden from the camera.

unless the "clients" have a rifle hidden somewhere in a body cavity( a bit difficult to do) i seriously doubt they are armed. and even if they somehow have managed to hide a rifle in that pose, it would still be difficult to use. as to bringing a rifle into battery, the elephant is maybe 6-8 feet away. to get a rifle down from that position and into a firing position in the one second it would take to the elephant to cover that distance would be impossible. i appreciate the knowledge that Ivan has of elephant behavior but the 1 "exception" to normal behavior patterns ends with someone dead- and it might not be the elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
Do we "know" this is a photo Safari or was it just implied or assumed?

Pretty much everthing on AR is implied and/or assumed.

does it matter?? did the elephant know he was being shoot with a camera or a gun??

It's laughable how serious people take themselves on this forum…yes Ivan should be sued and his license revoked for such irresponsible behavior

I think there is most probably a backup ph with a shouldered rifle that is not part of the photo.

I like & respect Ivan & would hunt with him if given the chance, but I do worry that one day I'll log in & find a thread about his untimely death. Hopefully he sees a 100 years.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I believe he could put the rifle to "battery" quickly enough…Like I said before in his videos and Tv shows he has waved his rifle around to stop an aggressive or inquisitive ele and often if the animal gets too close he shoulders the rifle.

And I'm not sure why everyone thinks the client has no rifle, I can think of several ways he could be holding it that would be hidden from the camera.

unless the "clients" have a rifle hidden somewhere in a body cavity( a bit difficult to do) i seriously doubt they are armed. and even if they somehow have managed to hide a rifle in that pose, it would still be difficult to use. as to bringing a rifle into battery, the elephant is maybe 6-8 feet away. to get a rifle down from that position and into a firing position in the one second it would take to the elephant to cover that distance would be impossible. i appreciate the knowledge that Ivan has of elephant behavior but the 1 "exception" to normal behavior patterns ends with someone dead- and it might not be the elephant.

The guy squatting in front of the ladies can easily have a rifle in ready position pointed at the elephant hidden from view from this camera angle. One simply can not deduct the entire scenario from one picture.

"Stopping Rifle In Action"

The thread title makes an ironically humorous caption for this cartoon.
Can anyone come up with anything better?
And just what is Ivan doing with his other hand here? Hooker says:

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
Ivan ... he knows enough about elephants to know when to wankum and when to stand your grown and shot them in the toe nails with his little pee shooter.

Not a bad bit of drollery from WoodHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by WoodHunter:
"I See Your Pair And Raise You A Double"

Elephant Poker: Ivan can read an elephant bull's tells, like when the bull flutters his eyelashes like a girl, Ivan knows the bull is bluffing.

unless he has it in his crotch and is pointing it upward from there, i doubt it. blow up the picture and you will see what i mean. nothing is near his shoulder and his line of site is not down a gun barrel. again, i realize that 99.99% of the time a true professional can read animal behavior and get it right. what about the other .01% of the time. someone pays the ultimate price- and i doubt the clients( be they hunters or photographers) would like to be the .01%

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
what about the other .01% of the time. someone pays the ultimate price- and i doubt the clients( be they hunters or photographers) would like to be the .01%

Perhaps theyy should stay home then?

when you depend on a professional for professional behavior( as opposed to thrill seeking) i think you should get it. just like most things in life, if you take enough chances, sooner or later you lose.think Russian roulette. sooner or later the hammer drops on a loaded chamber. with the original numbers i posted( which, admittedly are just a guess, although i seriously doubt anyone guides more than 1000 client either hunters or photographers in their career), is a single, unnecessary fatality OK? i suppose so- as long as the fatality isn't me....