THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM HUNTING FORUMS
Merry Christmas to our Accurate Reloading Members
Merry Christmas to our Accurate Reloading Members
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Stopping Rifle In ActionGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Stopping Rifle In Action | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Trapper: I might be wrong but I think the chap standing on the left waving a paddle could just be Ivan. The guy kneeling is quite likely associated with the attractive lady and the youngster  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am of course referring to the original photo which opened the thread. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ivan, Could you please clarify your statement on the six animals that we killed in self defense. Were those in one year where you and clients killed 28 or is that the total for all the years that you have hunted elephant? 465H&H | |||
|
One of Us |
Ivan, Could you please clarify your statement on the six animals that we killed in self defense. Were those in one year where you and clients killed 28 or is that the total for all the years that you have hunted elephant? 465H&H It's the total Thank you "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
|
One of Us |
Oh come on Walt!  Ivan made it very clear that he has killed a total of 6 in self defense during his career and the most ele hunted in a single year with clients is 28. What is there to clarify? Ivan, really, there is no reason to respond to this crap. Jines nailed it on the head concerning sniping and those who practice it taking shots at those who don't ... all puns intended!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
This very picture was on FOX news this morning. | |||
|
| One of Us |
What was the story about? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
|
One of Us |
To tell the truth when I first looked at this thread my initial thought was it was photoshopped then after looking closer at the dust from the elephants feet I determined it probably wasn't. My second thought was it was posed based strictly on the positions of the persons involved,the rifle held high, the observers apparently prepared to take flight and then I read on and it quickly became clear it was the same old bashing that usually takes place on this forum it seems. This one seems to have come to 'mine are bigger than yours' depending on whose side you take. So much of everything on most of these forums seem to evolve around 'dangerous game' as if some are more dangerous than others, which they probably are and you are somehow a lesser person if you just hunt the old 'plains' game. No matter what I hunted in Africa I always tried my best to get as close as was possible for the shot as I have actually been known to miss. I was lucky to have PH's who felt the same and we mostly managed to do so. We did not pick how close by how dangerous just by 'how close' we could get. As a result we lost very few animals. One we lost (it died we just could not follow into the area where it died) just happened to be an Elephant shot eyeball to eyeball at probably 15 yards. WE were in tall brush and his ears were facing forward and his trunk was held high trying to figure where we were. I missed the front brain shot with a 300gr 375H&H solid. He sat down and immediately sprang back up and whirled and I got a second heart/lung shot. My PH took a frontal heart/lung with a 458 solid before he spun around while I was reloading. Was I scared - not really as it all happened too fast. Was I scared later ,you bet when it sunk in how close we were. Do I like being scared,absolutely not and do my level best to never become so if possible. This does not mean not getting close ,just not getting any closer than necessary to make a good shot. I look at all the record books and it just says who shot what and never once have I seen a list of from 'how far were you from the animal when shot' appear on any of them. I cannot believe this picture was not a degree of 'showboatting' on the part of Mr. Carter based on what seems to be his tremendous skill with Elephants. His companions seem prepared to flee judging by their positions. I cannot believe the Elephant just appeared from nowhere if they knew they were in elephant country and were paying any degree of attention. More so as Mr. Carter states he was familiar with the area and the particular Elephant involved. This would seem to imply Mr. Carter LET the scene happen rather than avoided it. I do find this to be somewhat reprehensible on his part. I have been a photographer for well over 60 years and a great part of this done with long (300mm - 500mm) lenses and this does not appear to be any great degree of foreshortening to me, but that is just my opinion as is the remainder of this statement. I still would not choose to hunt with Mr. Carter even though I found Elephant hunting to be the most challenging of all African animals to hunt. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
Matt: I was on the elliptical. BY the time I took my headphones off and plugged them into the TV, it was over. I have no idea. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I was refering to the pic Ivan posted where he is kneeling next to the elephant, not the pic on the 1st page  Full time professional trapper | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would hunt with Ivan in a heartbeat. Would just need to take spare clothes with me to change into. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
|
| One of Us |
Todd, It sure doesn't take much for you to get your panties tied in knots any more, please take a couple of shots of Greygoose and relax.  Saying that, thanks for Ivan's post you quoted. I somehow missed that. It states what I thought but I just wanted to be sure. Having to shoot only 6 eles in self defense in 28 years is a remarkably low number. It also validates my earlier posted opinion on how well Ivan can read elephant behavior. I have had to take two in self defense in the couple of dozen elephants kills I have been involved in. I would sure like to get some training from Ivan but I don't think I can afford it!  walt | |||
|
| One of Us |
I don't know about Todd's panties. He likely doesn't wear any. He does however prefer a certain level of comprehension of the written English language. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Bwana, Comprehension wasn't the problem my missing the post that included the quote was. Walt | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sensible rational minded people would agree. but in contrast to that, some people on AR have claimed that they knew exactly what their DG animals are going to do next... They then got all upset when I asked them where they got their gift or special powers, to be able precisely & accurately read wild animals minds each and every single time they tried to kill one.
Unfortunately not all people can handle the close-in situations as well as you or others. In reference to Stu taylor, He has had two clients; one on Elephant.. and one on Buff, where: - Both clients were charged by their respective DG animals at close quarters. - Both clients carelessly tripped-over whilst running backwards in panic. Clearly getting as close as possible is not the best approach for some people, no matter how much it 'thrills' them. Instead of being a helpful positive asset to the PH, such clients instead become a compounding liability to both themselves and the PH. | |||
|
| One of Us |
You're evidently STILL missing the post then as Ivan stated the most elephants he took in a single year was 28 ... not that he has made 6 self defense shoots in 28 years. You were looking to  pure and simple. Good grief guys, give it a rest already. It's a cool picture and none of us know the details beyond what Ivan posted. Let's face it, none of us know what the clients in the photo did or didn't want out of the experience either. The fact is, some people are more comfortable than others concerning risk and their experiences afield. It's possible the clients got more than they bargained for and it's possible they got EXACTLY what they were after. Let's put it in perspective then let it go. Look at this picture and comment about about what you would or wouldn't do, how this may or may not play out if the guy continues to do this sort of thing throughout his career.  It's just pathetic how everyone races to the bottom on these threads, races out in front to be the most "ethical", or in this case, races to the top of the "responsibility hill". And all over nothing more than an interesting picture. | |||
|
| Administrator |
Why are you involved in this pathetic discussion then?  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Damn good question. Why are you involved in SCI if you think it's a corrupt organization?  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Who's this Ivan Carter fella everyone's talking about? Dave Fulson | |||
|
| Administrator |
Todd, I have absolutely, positively, no involvement with SCI. I joined both SCI and the NRA many years ago. I will be to join the NRA if I wasn't a member right now. But, there is no way in hell I would join SCI the way it is right now! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Sorry, but if you're a member, you're involved. Maybe passively rather than actively, but involved. Round and round we go on yet another thread, covering the same ground. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Saeed, Todd does have a point. If your name are on the rolls them you are a member. End of story. Just like a divorce, you would have to walk away with less than you started, but it's worth the cost. Jeff | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ivan, you are a great man. I like your hunting style, you Show, your DVDs. And I like this photo. You know what you do. Best wishes. F. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I want Ivan Carter's life. | |||
|
one of us |
 Our guide in Zimbabwe in 2004 and I found ourselves surrounded by a large pack of Painted Dog. Photo copyright Becci Crowe cool pic, but she disses Ivan as he is referred to on her website as "our guide"  Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Maybe he also drove the tour bus. You know, "Big Ben over there on the left, & on our right, the painted dogs of Africa!" LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
|
| One of Us |
Now that last photo -- Would trade almost anything for that. | |||
|
One of Us |
I'm pretty sure this is one of the most upsetting posts on AR today and I’m gratified that risk-mongers like Ivan Carter are finally being revealed for the menaces to society they are. Never mind his decades of expertise and experience, seeing that photo of Ivan deliberately provoking an elephant in a flagrant flirtation with death made me wonder how it is that he hasn’t been arrested for felonious endangerment of simple-minded clients. With my dander up (and dusting those around me) I went ahead this afternoon and reported Ivan’s lunatic behavior to the US Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Overseas Tourist Safety & Hazards. The lead researcher there, Dr. Heywood Jablome, explained to me that shenanigans like Ivan’s are not rare, and offered me an insight to other equally outrageous acts of crazed, bare-chested, client-threatening bravura by so-called experts. For example: 1) After only a couple of hours of ‘training’, an irresponsible businessman in California, Mr. Cole Ostamie, hurled a tourist, innocently looking for adventure, out a door causing her to fall over a thousand feet at a speed estimated at 130 mph. To add insult to injury the victim, Ms. Anita Bath, was provocatively tied to her assailant (one suspects for purposes of prurient titillation) for the duration of her horror. Only through the providence of God and nylon did she survive. 2) Another stunt-meister, this one in Daytona Beach, Florida, offered tourists sightseeing drives. Little did they suspect that the owner and driver, Mr. Hugh Janus, had more nefarious intent. After strapping his victim into a dangerously over-powered car – with all the concern of Torquemada performing an auto-da-fé – he would proceed to drive maniacally at speeds in excess of three times the legal speed limit placing his undoubtedly horrified passenger in extreme danger of death or accidental urination. 3) In perhaps the most egregious act of irresponsibility, Mr. Mike Oxard of West Virginia, deliberately tossed unsuspecting tourists from cliffs and bridges – often times hundreds of feet off the ground – with little more than a rubber band tethered between them and a violent end and an ignominious crater. Not unlike Ivan’s victims, all of these innocents thought they were going to experience thrilling outdoor adventure only to find themselves at the mercy of some trained expert hell-bent on providing it. The only thing more outrageous than such idiotic ‘show boating’ is the fact that these tourist-victims sought out such dangers, and indeed, enjoyed them! I’m not sure who should be punished more: Obsessed and deranged perpetrators like Ivan or the foolhardy people who willingly seek them out. It’s yet another AR outrage! . . . . . . . . . . .    Kim Merkel Double .470 NE Whitworth Express .375 H&H Griffin & Howe .275 Rigby Winchester M70 (pre-64) .30-06 & .270 "Cogito ergo venor" René Descartes on African Safari | |||
|
| One of Us |
Once again Kim ... Spot on!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
 If you sky dive or bungee jump then you know what you are sining up for--even by Ivans own account this was very unexpected and not part of the plan-- Proper planning prevents piss poor performance- and that pic is an example of poor planning- do recall that Ivan said that if one of the people behind him had broke and moved-things would have gone pear-shaped in a hurry and either the elephant would have died or people would have been hurt- SSR "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
|
| One of Us |
"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
|
One of Us |
Yer right, the lady here in NZ thought she knew all about elephants and their behaviour to her eternal detriment. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/n...=1&objectid=10801476 PS the elephant has since been shipped off to the States at great expense but at least the stupidity wasn't continued in having it put down as some had suggested should be done. | |||
|
| One of Us |
According to the minutes of the National Parks / SAOZ bi-partate meetings a south African PH operating in the Gwaai area of Zim had shot 7 elephant in 'self defence' during 2012. Speaking to the 'new farmer' who took over that ranch and was whining about all the paperwork, the 'South African' PH automatically shot any elephant that charged to within 10 paces, regardless of wheter it was a mock charge or not. Ivan and Buzz have ALOT of experience and I don't think any unnecessary killing could ever be placed at their doors. Still, it is the exceptions that are the killers- like the bull that knocked over Andy Truvello (the Guide) and then killed two of his clients. Why? From all parks accounts the elephant killed the little girl as he went past and then deliberately hunted the woman down. Andy was unconsious, having gone down right under the elephant. NB- Andy knew well in advance that something wasn't right, and had moved to screen his group from the bull and was shepardinging them back to the vehicle when attacked from an unexpected quater. We had another PH killed a few years back- did a whip around here on AR for his widow (to which Saeed generously donated). He was hunting but had walked past the elephant and taken from behind. Johnny Uys, knew things were going wrong and was trying to bring his rifle up when he tripped. Dennis Tom...too focussed on the charge by the martiach. He told his clients to climb up to safety while he watched the big cow. Never even saw the cow that came from the flank and killed him. I would rate guiding as actually more difficult than hunting, and for a guide, always remember- if the elephant doesn't kill you and you shoot it in self defence...the paperwork will. | |||
|
| One of Us |
This just about takes the cake, the sort of thing that inevitably leads to some bureaucratic imbecile who can’t distinguish between someone who “deliberately tossed unsuspecting tourists from cliffs and bridges” and a not-at-all uncommon situation in Africa which was handled extraordinarily well by the man in question, to enacting all sorts of ridiculous rules and regulations designed to make consorting with wild animals “safe” … … and with the support of another imbecile (also apparently unable to make that distinction) who reported the (alleged) incident to him, Unbelievable. Someone should report KPete. | |||
|
Moderator |
Um, Steve, it was a joke.......  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Um, maybe I should have my morning coffee before posting things on the internet.   | |||
|
| One of Us |
Steve: I'm outraged that you're outraged. Your's is the first upsetting post on AR today! (There will be more no doubt.) Anymore of this and the vapours will take hold of me. Kim Merkel Double .470 NE Whitworth Express .375 H&H Griffin & Howe .275 Rigby Winchester M70 (pre-64) .30-06 & .270 "Cogito ergo venor" René Descartes on African Safari | |||
|
One of Us |
 Mike | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have to admit that at first I wondered if it was a joke. Then I say the names. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The older I get, the more everything reminds of some old movie scene. Are we far enough off topic yet?  | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Stopping Rifle In Action
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
