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time to start writing to mour congressmen et al. I am a physician, and I am not easily panicked by infectious disease scares. In fact, some time ago, I posted I would go to Burkina in 2015. No more. The more I learn about how this disease is being transmitted, the more circumspect I get. Its not the same disease the CDC is blathering on about. Its a different , evolved virus. A nurse in spain, fully protected bY EV gear has got the disease. As have a number of medical professionals in W africa I sent an email to my congressional rep , and to mr obama, recommending an immediate ban on flights from w africa, and quarantine for those who need to come in and out. Please look at the data and add your voices to my own. The present administration is not dealing with this problem like they shoulds | ||
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If you are a doctor, then you understand the even the best infection control protocols can easily be circumvented - they are not human proof. Furthermore, most of the folks running around infected patients are wearing a N-95 surgical masks. An N-95 is simply not proper respiratory protection for contagious virons which are sub micron in size. Until more is known about actual practices in the field and infection pathways, it is not time to panic. Do you plan on being in close proximity to an Ebola patient any time soon? ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Everyone has to die sometime of something. I'm going hunting until they tell me I can't. | |||
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I'll boldly predict more Americans will die this year from trees falling on them than from Ebola. I still ain't staying out of the woods. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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I was catching grief from my sister yesterday, regarding my May '15 trip to the EC of RSA. I told her that by next May, this thing will either be contained/a distant memory, or nobody will be flying to the continent. Of course, that is just a SWAG by me....worth nothing. 0351 USMC | |||
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Was there a time in the history of man when there was not danger? There has always been danger. Life has always been fragile. There have always been wars, diseases, and calamities. What has changed is now we are constantly aware of the dangers near and far. We get more news in a day than that average person use to get in a month or a year! I will live a properly cautious life...but I will live life. And if that means travel including the road less taken, then so be it. | |||
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Nice to hear from lots of laymen about how and what to do, Fact is, lots of medical health professionals in appropriate gear have been infected, eg the nurse in spain who had 2 PROTECTED contacts with a pt. IMO, this is not the ebola the CDC et al have seen in the past. Its time to be appropriately cautious. I hope I am wrong. | |||
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Seems to me that Malaysian Airlines flight 370 still is missing? No airline travel for us tourist sportsmen? | |||
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lots of medical professionals have been infected?? 8-10 is your idea of lots?? and who knows what their idea of adequate protective gear was in the early stages of the outbreak- or what is being used now in more remote areas.... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I think you are right to be on the cautious side. We are and have put off traveling to Dallas. The Ebola virus is re-engineering it self from person to person and is growing more deadly as it moves along. Many, in the US do not believe that it is a big deal, and it will never be a bother to them. Time will tell. What is scarey, it the cleanup crews that i have seen on TV were not wearing any protective equipment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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I am not enthralled with the CDC's record lately, but do you really think they had TWO live patients in Atlanta and didn't acquire at least a little bitty sample to compare with known strains? Incidentally, just what flavor of "physician" would you be? No disrespect intended, but if you're a podiatrist I'll just fall back on my 5 years as a Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Operations NCO and worry more about gravitationally-challenged plant life than ebola, at least for now. If it mutates to become more transmissible by air, what I worry about may change. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Seriously, You won't go to Dallas? You won't go to DSC, because of Ebola? There will be some bargains there. Due to ignorance largely. Unfortunately, I'm already booked. My hunt is on the Eastern Congo border. My goodness there have been reports of Ebola in Congo. It's a very big country. A very big continent. A disease I'm not likely to catch. I'm not swapping body fluids with anyone in Africa. Why wouldn't I go? | |||
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If you decide to eat monkey or fruit bat let somebody else do the butchering  "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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One contingency many people neglect is the unrestrained rioting and looting that will inevitably follow any unrestrained outbreak of a fatal, contagious disease. When people panic, they will go tribal, and the disease will be the least of your worries. Think L.A. riots after Rodney King times 1000. | |||
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I'm not a doctor and I haven't stayed in a Holiday Inn Express but here's a few thoughts: One: The outbreak is currently in West Africa so if you're hunting in East Africa or RSA the risk should be minimal. If I had a trip planned I would go. Two: A woman from the WHO was on the news and rather than minimizing the outbreak as the CDC has done, she stated two facts that should alarm us all. 1. The cases are multiplying at a 2.5 times rate every 24 days, even with it killing half of the infected that still results in a 2x growth rate every 24 days. Even with the ramp up currently underway, the number of health workers and field hospitals would only be able to handle at most twice the number of people currently infected. By the time they are constructed and in place the number of infected will be from four to eight times the current number. 2. The mutation of this virus in humans has been limited since it has previously been contained fairly rapidly. That is not the case now, though she thought it becoming airborne was not likely. She did think that it becoming contagious before the disease is symptomatic is a potential concern. Then again, it could just mutate into something less deadly (a bright note). Anyway, good luck hunting and stay safe. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I can't help but feel the media are whipping this up into a hysterical frenzy for their own obvious reasons but if it is as bad as they say then there's no point in worrying about it and if it isn't as bad as they say, then there's no point in worrying about it. Would I go to west Africa right now? - Hell no but that's a personal choice and what anyone else decides to do is entirely up to them and nothing to do with me. | |||
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Last year in Dallas was the flu season. What medical reports have said is that the Ebola virus if it mixes with the flu virus it could become an air-born virus. And as stated why would you want to put your self in harms way, if you did not need to do so. I have put off going to Africa in 2015, or at least until the medical issues go down. So if a great package becomes available toward the end of the 2015 season and the medical news is available that i could safely go, then i may consider going. Traveling to Africa is not worth dying over. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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I am going to Burkina in 2015. Lots of people are telling me not to go. I will monitor the situation but so far Burkina has had less ebola cases than the US! Full time professional trapper | |||
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I was on the phone last night about a hunting both Argentina and South Africa. Whilst ebola is 2000 miles from SA folks fly, drive, walk across boarders. Look like it will be Aust and Arg. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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emron, I am curious what type of doctor you are. I would guess that infectious disease is not your specialty. If it were, you would know that there are four previously known strains of the Filoviridae hemorrhagic virus. Three of which comprise the six previous outbreaks in Africa. They are the Zaire ebolavirus, Bundibugyo ebolavirus, Sudan ebolavirus- names for the areas where the virus is found in Africa. There is also a fourth strain outside of Africa known as the Taï Forest ebolavirus. Currently, it is believed that there are two possible separate strains of the virus that are active in Africa at the moment. The west African strain that is active in Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia and Nigeria believed to be "possibly" a new strain of the Zaire ebolavirus and the strain active in DR Congo is believed to be the Zaire ebolavirus. Since the actual genetic sequencing has not been released to my knowledge, you are dealing with best guesses or media reports which are highly suspect at best. There is nothing to indicate that the current West African outbreak is anything more than the "typical" Filoviridae hemorrhagic virus. I say typical of course because all previous outbreaks have been in very remote areas only impacting a small number of hosts. I get the sense you believe that there is something more sinister about this outbreak. I have not read any "informed" publication to suggest that nor has there been any proof that the virus has mutated to a point where it is being transmitted as a viable bioaersol. This would require a major shift in the genetic makeup and could make the virus far less pathogenic. Just because a virus mutates, does not make it automatically make it more evil and virulent (contrary to Hollywood scientists). Again, this is pretty basic stuff if you are in the business of infectious diseases. The worst thing about this outbreak that I have seen so far is the blind guessing and subsequent unfounded panic that is occurring. As a doctor, I would have thought that you would have been far more concerned about your exposure to nosocomial infections in your line of work. Were tracking 22 drug resistant bugs in American hospitals alone that are responsible for over 120,000 deaths a year. If you think about that for a moment, that reality should scare the hell out of you. We have American patients, in American hospitals, contracting drug resistant organisms as a result of their exposure to the hospital environment, while under doctor's care, with the best drugs available and at a moment's notice and we still cannot save 120,000 of them. We are not talking about some mud village in the middle of human suffering, we're talking American hospitals with the best medical care that taxpayers can afford. In short, you have bigger, badder bugs in your own backyard. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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Thomas Eric Duncan the Dallas Ebola patient died this morning. Airports in the US will begin taking the temperatures of arriving passengers who have flight itineraries originating in West African countries where Ebola is concentrated CNN is reporting. The screenings will begin this weekend or next week, according to the report. | |||
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Spot-on brother!!!  It's right around the corner...closer than they would ever imagine  | |||
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I agree on a a West Africa quarantine. But if it has evolved , wouldn't MILLIONS of west Africans and Nigerians have been infected and not only 5000 odd ? Dave Davenport Outfitters license HC22/2012EC Pro Hunters license PH74/2012EC www.leopardsvalley.co.za dave@leopardsvalley.co.za +27 42 24 61388 HUNT AFRICA WHILE YOU STILL CAN Follow us on FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/#!/leopardsvalley.safaris | |||
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A couple of news stories from both one of the professor's who first discovered the virus in 1976 as well as a USA Today article. Both are informative if not terribly encouraging. http://www.theguardian.com/wor...-peter-piot-outbreak http://www.usatoday.com/story/...tion-ebola/16076067/ I hope like all of us that they snuff this out in the next three months, but we should neither panic nor put our heads in the sand. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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SHUSH!!!! don't point out salient facts..... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Jeff: I'm not a prude when it comes to food, but primates and bats will never be on the menu. | |||
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jeffive, opus, lavaca et al. I am a cardiologist, actually a cardiac electrophysiologist-not infectious disease. How many of you gents are ID or public health? Notwithstanding, I have been practising medicine for 26 odd years in 3 continents, so bear with me. I dont know if this particular outbreak is caused by the ebola virus of yesteryear; My guess is, no one has had time to determine its complete genome.-SO we dont really know if this virus is the same as the varieties seen in previous outbreaks. Tests for ebola usually involve the usual PCR (polymerase chain reaction) techniques that replicate part of the virus genome and test for specific nucleotide sequences found in viruses seen in previous ebola outbreaks. It is not specific for any strain. Viruses evolve and mutate rapidly. This particular outbreak is characterized by people in first world countries getting infected despite first world precautions. Two nurses so far in Spain. The explanation in the media is, one of the nurses "may have touched her face with her soiled gloves". This does not make sense. The CDC is saying the virus is only communicated by blood and secretions coming in contact with the victims mouth, eyes, breaks in skin, mucous membranes. How then did touching the face of a healthy person with a glove result in infection? How did a news reporter who had no contact with infected individuals get the disease? There is a good chance,IMO, that this ebola is not the ebola of yesteryear, and the CDC is FOS. At the very least, we should adhere to the time honored principles of controlling infectious epidemics. West african countries with ebola should be quarantined. Non-essential travel (journalists etc) should be curbed. Essential travel (medical personnel etc) should be quarantined on return to the outside world for 21 days. The epidemic will then burn itself out without risking a pandemic. The alternative is to continue as before, and as cases occur in the outside world, those people are isolated and contacts quarantined. a much more difficult, messier alternative, which may be politically correct but not scientifically appropriate. Note there are now 2 nurses infected in spain, and possibly a second case in Dallas. I do agree that chances of contracting the disease in unaffected countries like Burkina is very small NOW; what it will be in 6 months is unknown. Cases with ebola increase by geometric progression, and there are no facilities, despite all efforts, to isolate new cases, dispose off corpses, isolate contacts etc; and likely wont be for the forseeable future. I do agree that no one should be worried about travelling to Dallas NOW; CDC predicts between 550,000 and 1.4 million cases by january if nothing changes. and nothing is or can change in the short time we have before the disease explodes. We will see in a few weeks how this works out. | |||
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Opus. I quote from Peter Piot, the physician who discovered and named Ebola in 1976. I dont know if he is an infection disease specialist, but I think he knows a little about Ebola "I always thought that Ebola, in comparison to Aids or malaria, didn't present much of a problem because the outbreaks were always brief and local. Around June it became clear to me that there was something fundamentally different about this outbreak. At about the same time, the aid organisation Médecins Sans Frontières sounded the alarm. We Flemish tend to be rather unemotional, but it was at that point that I began to get really worried" | |||
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Worried? http://img.photobucket.com/alb...Ebola-Wiki-Graph.png Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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I kinda suspected as much, and would draw the edibility line somewhere left of both myself The only one that might be problematic in affected areas would be duikers, attracted to the same fruit-bearing trees as the fruit bats. Well cooked, eating one would pose essentially no danger but butchering one always entails the possibility of a knife nick. Personally, I'd far rather be in the bush in an affected area than a city, much easier to control what you contact. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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I've posted this on two other forums to get a general feeling. As to date, there is not a single case of Ebola in South Africa, or any of its neighboring countries. Here is a different perspective, between you fellas in the USA, and me here in South Africa? Who is the safest from this virus between you and me? Is it you as a hunter coming to South Africa, where there is not a single case, or is it me as an outfitter living in South Africa, and having to come to the outdoor shows hosted by a country where Ebola cases have been identified? If this is not under control by Jan, I might seriously consider scrapping my trip to the USA and Canada for the shows. Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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If you look at the three locations where cases were reported in Congo they are all in a pretty small area, within about 40 miles total, 600+ miles from the eastern border. 600 miles of "challenging" terrain. It is also highly likely nobody would have ever heard of those cases without the outbreak 2500 miles away. Ebola is endemic there, and a few cases here and there are rarely worthy of note. If you die of ebola from your hunt I'll personally come apologize here on AR "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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I've been to Guinea and Liberia recently (few month ago). The situation in both countries is VERY different to the situation in developed countries. Conakry and Monrovia are dirty and have little infrastructure, even by african standarts.... I am not worried at all about hunting in Benin, Burkina or Cameroun. Benin and Burkina had no case yet and I doubt it will affect them very much. I would not go to Liberia or Guinea now if I don't have to. Not so much because I am afraid of Ebola (cause i prefer not exchange body fluids with locals) but about being stranded if airlines stop flying there. By the way about 30000people die in Guinea&Liberia from Malaria each year...... (I bet even more from aids....) | |||
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Caracal, Thank you for your input. It's nice to hear it from someone with actual experience, rather than follow the media hype. Marius Goosen KMG Hunting Safaris Cell, Whats App, Signal + 27 82 8205387 E-mail: info@huntsafaris.co.za Website: www.huntsafaris.co.za Skype: muis19820603 Check us out on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kmghuntingsafaris Instagram: @kmg_hunting_safaris | |||
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Marius, I really like the way you look at the risk in USA, with 1 dead from Ebola vs. South Africa, with not a single confirmed case! You also say:
Now, I'm not an epidemiologist, but I can read a graph a bit. So, not being trained, or possess the other requirements to evaluate the data, I merely use, in blind trust, the data about Ebola cases and deaths as provided by the World Health Organization. This was also done by Wikipedia and this is the graph that they drew from WHO data: WHO Data Plotted by Wikipedia The total in all countries in the world cases - black dotted line - and deaths - black solid line seems to me to be roughly doubling every month. Now will someone please be very positive and tell me why by there will not be about 112 000 cases, and about half as many deaths, by the end of January 2015. I really try hard to see anything positive in the figures, but fail to do so. Will someone with a nice positive, like "the glass is half full", attitude please provide some facts as to why I'm unnecessarily worried. Some time or other some traveler is going to bring it to South Africa! I shudder to even think about this possibility! In good hunting. Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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There already have been machete butcherings of westerners as the indigenous believe whites made the virus to kill blacks. That is what I'd be afraid of
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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I'm in the DRC in the Katanga Province. No problems this side. The DRC is huge with a few cases very far from where I am. I am not worried about ebola. We have other nasty suprises running around like malaria etc. which kills far more people each year. I love animals, they are delicious! | |||
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My feelings exactly! . | |||
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29577175 Over 4,000 Ebola deaths, 233 healthcare worker deaths. Scared? Not yet. Concerned? You bet I am. | |||
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A little perspective here: Malaria causes between 300 to 500 million cases a year with about a million deaths year after year after year. While Ebola exposure can be avoided with the simple 10 foot rule (assuming you're hanging around a bunch of Ebola patients), mosquitoes on the other hand are indiscriminate. All it takes is one 30 second encounter with an infected mosquito to become sick. In addition, there are four forms a cerebral malaria that are particularly virulent and deadly even with quick medical intervention. Your chances of dying from Malaria are astronomically higher than Ebola. Then again, so is heart disease, cancer, accidents and even gun shot wounds. Folks have been happily traveling to Malaria born Africa for decades without any real hysteria or concern. Not sure why Ebola has become such a concern. I guess it's got a better PR agent. Poor Malaria gets no respect, but it should... ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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