Aaron:

To sumarize:

1- Fairgame & Late Bloomer offered prints at $750 to raise money for Stu.

2- Things had stalled. I got Mark Sullivan to buy a print. More interest was generated.

3- I offered a hunt as did an African outfitter.

4- MS sent all purchasers his latest DVD and his book. He subsequently offered to accompany the winning hunter even allowing one of his doubles to be shot.

5- Some gave up their chance to win. These were auctioned off to the highest bidder. Pagosawingnut bought these chances.

6- My initial draw for the hunt was none other than Mark Sullivan. I drew again. Pagosawingnut was the winner.

7- Ivan offered to accompany another person on a second hunt I donated should we get to 100 prints. We never got that high.

8- Rick,Mark and myself are going bird/hog hunting in February. We may well have a special guest who I will disclose if it all works out.

6-

FYI- www.TrophyShotPrints is NO longer offering this LION PRINT.

I just received a letter from Conservation Force/John JacksonIII/Chrissie Jackson...that they no longer will handle the "transaction process" for any more donations for their Stu Taylor Recovery Fund or my Stu Taylor LION PRINT Benefit.

Nor will I be looking for another organization to handle this.

Thank you to all who have participated!

Prints for those who are on the list are still continuing to arrive both domestically and internationally.

Thanks again to all who participated! My print arrived yesterday just in time for a "Christmas gift" to me! Roland and Andrew a big "hats off and well done" and "hip, hips" to Mark Sullivan, Larry Shores and Chris Troskie for their hunts, books and DVD's they selflessly donated. It was a great cause gents and ladies... and thanks to Conservation Force for the infrastructure to make it happen! Merry Christmas all!

Pretty damned good reason if you ask me.

Larry - Thanks for the clarification, and very sorry to hear about the latest developments!

Me too.

Someone has bitten the hand that fed them.

That s such a shame.

I had mentioned to Roland about donating a hunt to the uk to raise money for stu. I'm now glad I got caught up with and didn't get the details finalised.

I wholeheartedly agree with saeeds position on this.

K

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
FYI- www.TrophyShotPrints is NO longer offering this LION PRINT.

I just received a letter from Conservation Force/John JacksonIII/Chrissie Jackson...that they no longer will handle the "transaction process" for any more donations for their Stu Taylor Recovery Fund or my Stu Taylor LION PRINT Benefit.

Nor will I be looking for another organization to handle this.

Thank you to all who have participated!

Prints for those who are on the list are still continuing to arrive both domestically and internationally.

Roland,

Presume we now destroy the image so it cannot be used again?

It will add value to the print.

When I have time I will do a painting for auction and we could consider a limited print run off that for a good cause?

Talk about reprehensible.


Stu was shot again.. this time in the foot by himself. What a dickhead move.

Glad I did not fund his lawsuit to sue my friend.

I commend you guys for stepping up to help someone out, but this just goes to show you that even "good" guys have a lapse in judgement and do some incredibly stupid things.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
FYI- www.TrophyShotPrints is NO longer offering this LION PRINT.

I just received a letter from Conservation Force/John JacksonIII/Chrissie Jackson...that they no longer will handle the "transaction process" for any more donations for their Stu Taylor Recovery Fund or my Stu Taylor LION PRINT Benefit.

Nor will I be looking for another organization to handle this.

Thank you to all who have participated!

Prints for those who are on the list are still continuing to arrive both domestically and internationally.

Roland,

Presume we now destroy the image so it cannot be used again?

It will add value to the print.

When I have time I will do a painting for auction and we could consider a limited print run off that for a good cause?

Consider it DESTROYED mate

You know I got your back anytime/any day

The joy of doing this LION PRINT BENEFIT with you and the incredible experience of dealing with our AR members that participated is one I will relish forever.

It was TOP-NOTCH all the way around buddy!

Count me in anytime!

Too bad for Stu it had to end like this...the very hands that fed him!

Merry Christmas!!!

Aloha!

Roland

I am more than a little bothered by the entire matter. I have put up a lot of money personally and obviously helped raise more.

I started to become worried a few weeks ago. I arranged to have some world class specialist surgeons look at Stu's medical records at no cost to him. Stu became strangely silent. I could not figure that one out. I was bothered, bothered a lot.

Tim has helped Stu and helped a lot. Tim is also fighting with his insurance company to pay benefits to Stu.

I got wind of the Conservation Force issues and the lawsuit a few days ago. I was shocked, disappointed and embarrassed. I couldn't believe it.

A hell of a lot of money has gone to Stu from AR members. Counting everything , it has to be well over $100,000 . He has bitten the hand that fed him in my book.

As some of you know, there are 3 of us who have formed the African Professional Hunter Relief Fund to help those in need. One of our founders had some ideas on how to disburse money. Honestly, I thought it was overkill. I now know he was 100% correct.

Regardless, many on AR have stepped up and shown what kind of people there are. I sincerely appreciate the contributions of all of those involved.

Happy holidays to all of you.

Head-up Larry!
I am darn proud of you and let's not this incident rob us of the good!!!

For me...I'm only beginning!!!

Merry Christmas brother!!!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am more than a little bothered by the entire matter. I have put up a lot of money personally and obviously helped raise more.

I started to become worried a few weeks ago. I arranged to have some world class specialist surgeons look at Stu's medical records at no cost to him. Stu became strangely silent. I could not figure that one out. I was bothered, bothered a lot.

Tim has helped Stu and helped a lot. Tim is also fighting with his insurance company to pay benefits to Stu.

I got wind of the Conservation Force issues and the lawsuit a few days ago. I was shocked, disappointed and embarrassed. I couldn't believe it.

A hell of a lot of money has gone to Stu from AR members. Counting everything , it has to be well over $100,000 . He has bitten the hand that fed him in my book.

As some of you know, there are 3 of us who have formed the African Professional Hunter Relief Fund to help those in need. One of our founders had some ideas on how to disburse money. Honestly, I thought it was overkill. I now know he was 100% correct.

Regardless, many on AR have stepped up and shown what kind of people there are. I sincerely appreciate the contributions of all of those involved.

Happy holidays to all of you.

Hard to say it any better than Teddy did. Well done Larry, you should have no regrets for doing what was the right thing.

"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly . . . who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I am more than a little bothered by the entire matter. I have put up a lot of money personally and obviously helped raise more.

I started to become worried a few weeks ago. I arranged to have some world class specialist surgeons look at Stu's medical records at no cost to him. Stu became strangely silent. I could not figure that one out. I was bothered, bothered a lot.

Tim has helped Stu and helped a lot. Tim is also fighting with his insurance company to pay benefits to Stu.

I got wind of the Conservation Force issues and the lawsuit a few days ago. I was shocked, disappointed and embarrassed. I couldn't believe it.

A hell of a lot of money has gone to Stu from AR members. Counting everything , it has to be well over $100,000 . He has bitten the hand that fed him in my book.

As some of you know, there are 3 of us who have formed the African Professional Hunter Relief Fund to help those in need. One of our founders had some ideas on how to disburse money. Honestly, I thought it was overkill. I now know he was 100% correct.

Regardless, many on AR have stepped up and shown what kind of people there are. I sincerely appreciate the contributions of all of those involved.

Happy holidays to all of you.

Hard to say it any better than Teddy did. Well done Larry, you should have no regrets for doing what was the right thing.

"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly . . . who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

+1

perfectly stated

quote:

I got wind of the Conservation Force issues and the lawsuit a few days ago. I was shocked, disappointed and embarrassed. I couldn't believe it.

Larry
Be not embarrassed, as your plans & actions were noble.
I have a magnificent lion print that I will treasure for many years to come, I also got to see AR at it's best.
Bless you my friend & Merry CHRISTMAS.
Cecil Leonard

I'm speechless guys!

So a PH has his arm shot off and everyone jumps in to help: donations, buying tax deductible art, donating hunts(MS and LS), donating rifles(Ozhunter), donating major labor(Rowland and LS).

Sure there was a bit a grandstanding(with one notable exception.... Hint, he never takes credit for all the good he does around here) but so what, a lot of good was done.

All told $100,000 is collected. Not too shabby, until you realize how paltry $100K seems in in the face of an inoperable arm, a mountain of medical expenses and a lifetime of disability(not to mention a family to support).

So now Stu, that SOB, that reprehensible beast who would dare to bite the hand that feeds him, that dirty bastard is using some of your money to try to force Tim's insurance company to pay him for his loss. And he is having LAWYERS, LAYERS! do his dirty work. (let's not mention that Tim Hearld is also trying to get his insurance company to pay up)

And why is Stu doing this: for the fame and fortune, or to keep his family safe?

You guys are right, Stu is a thankless POS....

(BTW, I have a dim view of lawyers and I am honestly shocked that so many lawyers here on AR are throwing Stu under the bus for having the audacity to take legal action. Maybe you guys are more upstanding than I thought.... Or not)

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
I'm speechless guys!

So a PH has his arm shot off and everyone jumps in to help: donations, buying tax deductible art, donating hunts(MS and LS), donating rifles(Ozhunter), donating major labor(Rowland and LS).

Sure there was a bit a grandstanding(with one notable exception.... Hint, he never takes credit for all the good he does around here) but so what, a lot of good was done.

All told $100,000 is collected. Not too shabby, until you realize how paltry $100K seems in in the face of an inoperable arm, a mountain of medical expenses and a lifetime of disability(not to mention a family to support).

So now Stu, that SOB, that reprehensible beast who would dare to bite the hand that feeds him, that dirty bastard is using some of your money to try to force Tim's insurance company to pay him for his loss. And he is having LAWYERS, LAYERS! do his dirty work. (let's not mention that Tim Hearld is also trying to get his insurance company to pay up)

And why is Stu doing this: for the fame and fortune, or to keep his family safe?

You guys are right, Stu is a thankless POS....

(BTW, I have a dim view of lawyers and I am honestly shocked that so many lawyers here on AR are throwing Stu under the bus for having the audacity to take legal action. Maybe you guys are more upstanding than I thought.... Or not)

Jason, Come now. you have got to understand the feeling some of us have.

As this whole Stu donation thing was unfolding, I often wondered why Stu didn't bother to logon to AR and just say thanks.

Many people donated money they probably shouldn't have. Household budgets being what they are.

In the interest of full disclosure, I think Stu should have let us know his intentions, giving us all the option the either donate or not.

Merry Christmas Jason

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
I'm speechless guys!

So a PH has his arm shot off and everyone jumps in to help: donations, buying tax deductible art, donating hunts(MS and LS), donating rifles(Ozhunter), donating major labor(Rowland and LS).

Sure there was a bit a grandstanding(with one notable exception.... Hint, he never takes credit for all the good he does around here) but so what, a lot of good was done.

All told $100,000 is collected. Not too shabby, until you realize how paltry $100K seems in in the face of an inoperable arm, a mountain of medical expenses and a lifetime of disability(not to mention a family to support).

So now Stu, that SOB, that reprehensible beast who would dare to bite the hand that feeds him, that dirty bastard is using some of your money to try to force Tim's insurance company to pay him for his loss. And he is having LAWYERS, LAYERS! do his dirty work. (let's not mention that Tim Hearld is also trying to get his insurance company to pay up)

And why is Stu doing this: for the fame and fortune, or to keep his family safe?

You guys are right, Stu is a thankless POS....

(BTW, I have a dim view of lawyers and I am honestly shocked that so many lawyers here on AR are throwing Stu under the bus for having the audacity to take legal action. Maybe you guys are more upstanding than I thought.... Or not)

Jason makes a lot of sense to me. If Stu was heading toward a complete recovery and returning work soon that would be one thing. But given the situation he finds himself in I can hardly blame him for trying to protect his family. I have no idea if he is wasting his money on attorneys or if he really has a chance to get to get compensated by the insurance company, but I can certainly see where he would want to try. I think we should all think about what it would be like to be in his situation before we give up on him.

My problem with it is on various levels:

1- Personally, I donated for living/medical expenses not to finance a lawsuit.

2- Tim IS HELPING. He has given a lot of money and is fighting a major battle with his insurance company. What is a lawsuit against Tim going to accomplish that won't be accomplished anyway with Tim's ongoing efforts?

3- Stu resides in Zim. The incident was in Moz. The law suit will be in the US. My understanding ( which Mike S pretty much verified) is that this is a problem that will likely go nowhere in the US courts. Proper venue means a lot in this country. Money will go down the drain for what? I am not a lawyer, I may well be wrong.

4- Where is Jumbo Moore in all of this?

5- Other fund raising activities have STOPPED, TOTALLY. Trust me, there were other plans being worked on by multiple people.

Yes, I think it was ill advised especially considering some other aspects of this situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

Jason, Come now. you have got to understand the feeling some of us have.

As this whole Stu donation thing was unfolding, I often wondered why Stu didn't bother to logon to AR and just say thanks.

First let me say Merry Christmas to you and everyone else who donated to Stu. I have no doubt that God is blessing you right now.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
My problem with it is on various levels:

1- Personally, I donated for living/medical expenses not to finance a lawsuit.

2- Tim IS HELPING. He has given a lot of money and is fighting a major battle with his insurance company. What is a lawsuit against Tim going to accomplish that won't be accomplished anyway with Tim's ongoing efforts?

As to #1: I do see how you can feel a bit cheated in this whole thing.

As to #2: What difference does it make if Stu thanks us or not? Were we donating for the accolades(let's not BS ourselves, some of us were).

quote:

I often wondered why Stu didn't bother to logon to AR and just say thanks.

. This was something that has bothered me for some time, 100,000.00 + sent to this guy and not one single word of appreciation from him. This speaks volumes.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

Jason, Come now. you have got to understand the feeling some of us have.

As this whole Stu donation thing was unfolding, I often wondered why Stu didn't bother to logon to AR and just say thanks.

First let me say Merry Christmas to you and everyone else who donated to Stu. I have no doubt that God is blessing you right now.

As to #1: I do see how you can feel a bit cheated in this whole thing.

As to #2: What difference does it make if Stu thanks us or not? Were we donating for the accolades(let's not BS ourselves, some of us were).

Hi Jason, Blessings to you and yours as well.

I just think a simple thanks is the decent thing to do. It's not necessary or required.

I work many, many hours on projects for Special Olympic Arizona and thanks aren't part of the deal. The only thanks I need are the smiles on these special kids faces, and feeling good about looking in the mirror.

Frankly, I would have not donated as much as I did had I know the outcome. It would have gone to Special Olympics.

Again Jason, have a blessed Christmas..

Respectfully,

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
My problem with it is on various levels:

1- Personally, I donated for living/medical expenses not to finance a lawsuit.

2- Tim IS HELPING. He has given a lot of money and is fighting a major battle with his insurance company. What is a lawsuit against Tim going to accomplish that won't be accomplished anyway with Tim's ongoing efforts?

3- Stu resides in Zim. The incident was in Moz. The law suit will be in the US. My understanding ( which Mike S pretty much verified) is that this is a problem that will likely go nowhere in the US courts. Proper venue means a lot in this country. Money will go down the drain for what? I am not a lawyer, I may well be wrong.

4- Where is Jumbo Moore in all of this?

5- Other fund raising activities have STOPPED, TOTALLY. Trust me, there were other plans being worked on by multiple people.

Yes, I think it was ill advised especially considering some other aspects of this situation.

Wow…this information is most discouraging. I have sent emails to Stu since the beginning of November that have still remained unanswered by Stu. I have also left Skype messages for Jumbo Moore through Kambako since mid-November that have also gone unanswered.

I guess my suspicions and those of others I have been speaking with have been reinforced after reading the above posts. From my perspective, we all approached this with goodness in our hearts to help an injured brother and for that I have no regrets. I do however feel rather taken advantage of from the basis for which the funds were intended and that is to help with living and medical expenses.

I hope Stu comes to this thread and makes a statement regarding all that has been done via AR and provides some clarification. While I am not personally looking for a pat on the back or personal thanks of any kind, I feel that this may have left a very bad taste in many people’s mouths. This could benefit from some comment by Stu if there is anything left to clarify.


Shawn

Jason:

Money/capital is fungible and all. But I doubt as many people would have donated as much as they have if Stu was raising a litigation fund.


The Zim PHs who came on this website and originally laid out Stu's dire financial and personal situation did not say that Stu wants to create a litigation fund. There was no indication that proceeds from this fund raising would be used for litigation.

There is a reason when the litigation information was disclosed that all parties involved backed away from further fundraising.

I am pretty damn sure no one was informed of the litigation till monies were wired.

So fund raising that was done to provided for health and basic welfare is used for litigation. Again money is fungible but I again doubt anyone was informed that the proceeds would be used to fund litigation.

There is a legitimate reason for people to be angry/upset/feel misinformed about the litigation.

Did I expect some eventual litigation maybe. Did I expect to fund it - no. I gave money so Stu's alternative would not be financially broke disabled person in Uncle Bob's Zimbabwe. In hindsight maybe the Gates Foundation would have been a better place to give money to take care of poor people in Zimbabwe.

I don't see it as a moral duty for any insurance company (his own or Tim Herald or Magnum Hunt Club) to pay Stu if they are not contractually obligated to do so. Insurance companies are in the business of insuring specific contractual claims not all events in all places that effect their customers.

Litigation is fine and all. I went to law school and decided very early on in my professional career not to practice law but I am licensed to practice law. I don't ever give legal advice because I am worse than a jail house lawyer. However, I have invested in enough complicated legal issues to know if there was any real legal recourse Stu would have gotten a very good lawyer working on contingency.

As someone who often handicaps complex torts and other legal issues for a living. My take is the only person who will make any money is the lawyer billing Stu in advance for services provided. Stu will be poorer going forward after legal fees and any further fundraising by people who to date have helped him will cease. A disabled PH with a family in Uncle Bob's Zim is not desirable outcome.

I think Stu was in a very tough spot and he has made a bad decision to litigate using proceeds raised on AR. The litigation decision puts him in a even worse spot. This lawyer may make some money.

I have been wrong before and Stu may win a major settlement from Tim's insurance company and Tim personally but I highly doubt it.

I for one will not be claiming the painting and my contribution in cash and firearm as a deduction. Last thing in a audit I want to do is explain this thread.

Merry Christmas and a Happy Prosperous New Year to All.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
I'm speechless guys!

So a PH has his arm shot off and everyone jumps in to help: donations, buying tax deductible art, donating hunts(MS and LS), donating rifles(Ozhunter), donating major labor(Rowland and LS).

Sure there was a bit a grandstanding(with one notable exception.... Hint, he never takes credit for all the good he does around here) but so what, a lot of good was done.

All told $100,000 is collected. Not too shabby, until you realize how paltry $100K seems in in the face of an inoperable arm, a mountain of medical expenses and a lifetime of disability(not to mention a family to support).

So now Stu, that SOB, that reprehensible beast who would dare to bite the hand that feeds him, that dirty bastard is using some of your money to try to force Tim's insurance company to pay him for his loss. And he is having LAWYERS, LAYERS! do his dirty work. (let's not mention that Tim Hearld is also trying to get his insurance company to pay up)

And why is Stu doing this: for the fame and fortune, or to keep his family safe?

You guys are right, Stu is a thankless POS....

(BTW, I have a dim view of lawyers and I am honestly shocked that so many lawyers here on AR are throwing Stu under the bus for having the audacity to take legal action. Maybe you guys are more upstanding than I thought.... Or not)

Steve,
You quoted me before I was finished and that was not aimed at you,

I wish nothing but the best to you and all those who donated. Merry Christmas to all of us, especially Tim and Stu.

If you make it by Rock Springs I hope you will stop by for a visit.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Steve,
You quoted me before I was finished and that was not aimed at you,

I wish nothing but the best to you and all those who donated. Merry Christmas to all of us, especially Tim and Stu.

If you make it by Rock Springs I hope you will stop by for a visit.

I don't know if the race corse winds through Rock Springs or not. If it does, I will for sure.

As far as personal accolades, I sent monies the Stu several times before I ever even came back to AR. And long before the print thing came up.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

4- Where is Jumbo Moore in all of this?

Funny, I had not realized that that jerk was involved. I posted his name here in 2003 shortly after he screwed me out of $1,500 and Ann Horstman out of $2,000 and no one seemed to know him.

So he has screwed four of us. I hope no one will book with this jerk.

Lets just layout why I think litigation is a terrible use of funds for a person in a very tough financial spot and why I would have never ever have funded it.

Tim Herald is a US person not employed by Magnum Hunt club. He is an independent contractor.

Tim Herald is however hunting for business reasons in Moz. His home owners policy ain't covering business

Stu is a Zim person hunting in Moz. He better have insurance for both Zim and Moz - not just Zim.

Does Jumbo Moore employ Stu or is he an independent contractor?

Bringing litigation in Moz is a joke.

So any litigation is going to be in the US. A creative lawyer or more correctly law firm will eventually try and find a way to get standing to at least sue in the US (50/50 chance). This will required some very creative legal work. This burns 10-50 times Stu AR contributions. All just to get to the dance.

But venue, judge jurisdiction will be much tougher and this is all before we get to who is liable and if it is covered by insurance contract.

Put it bluntly Stu was not shot by Dan Duncan, Paul Tudor Jones or the CEO of Ruger. Tim Herald is not deep pockets in a professional litigation sense.


This is why no contingency lawyer willing to take risk for a payoff is taking this great case. There is minimal remote legal payoff. Sure if Stu is willing to pay upfront someone will work for the hourly rate.


All in all a foolish action for someone is such a dire spot.


My guess is none of these hunting activities were covered for the geographic location and purposes (business versus personal) by anyones insurance company.

Mike

Looking at all this from another part of the world.

1. Stu had a life changing accident.

2. Many kind hearted individuals donated money to help a fellow hunter in need.

3. Stu will have an extremely hard time collecting ANY money through his legal actions because of several points.

4. I have absolutely no regrets that Stu got the money that had been collected from AR.

5. I KNOW that if he continues with his legal action, most of the money is going to be diverted to pay his lawyers.

6. Point 5 above is, I am sure, is what made both CF and members of who AR change their minds regarding continuing to collect money on behalf of Stu.

7. Has anyone ever given a thought what would have happened if it was Stu that had accidently shot Tim?

8. Does Stu carry insurance that would have paid for Tim's sufferings?

Saeed on points 7 and 8

Tim would be on this own.

Every hunting contract I have signed waives all the liabilities cause I am participating in a dangerous activity.

Unless Stu or any other PH had significant US assets - who do you collect from ?

I really don't see a big market for a insurance company in insuring professional big game hunters in remote places in Africa. Its a weird risk profile with not a lot of premium.

This is one of the issues/worries in hunting - is the charter covered by good insurance.

My take is this activity of hunting is all self insurance.

Funny thing is when I went great white shark cage diving in south africa one of the companies advertised they had like a $500 mil. policy on injuries from shark attack. I asked to see the policy, if it covered accidents getting to and from the cage site and if it included dying from the cage sinking or falling overboard and getting eaten by a shark. I never heard back. I choose a company with no insurance but better reviews.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Looking at all this from another part of the world.

1. Stu had a life changing accident.

2. Many kind hearted individuals donated money to help a fellow hunter in need.

3. Stu will have an extremely hard time collecting ANY money through his legal actions because of several points.

4. I have absolutely no regrets that Stu got the money that had been collected from AR.

5. I KNOW that if he continues with his legal action, most of the money is going to be diverted to pay his lawyers.

6. Point 5 above is, I am sure, is what made both CF and members of who AR change their minds regarding continuing to collect money on behalf of Stu.

7. Has anyone ever given a thought what would have happened if it was Stu that had accidently shot Tim?

8. Does Stu carry insurance that would have paid for Tim's sufferings?

I'm on the fence with this one. It is disturbing that Stu never posted any thanks to those who contributed with either work, time, hunts, or money. I wasn't looking for it when I bought a print, but it would've been appreciated.

As many have said, legal fees will eat up much (if not all) of the funds raised. It is a highly complicated legal case, as Beretta has pointed out. There are so many jurisdictional issues. It almost reminds me of an off the wall torts exam question in law school.

It could be that Stu has a former client who specializes in personal injury and agreed to take the case on contingency as a favor. As we all know, American hunters think their PH is a hero and their best friend. I say that tongue in cheek. I know many of you have great relationships with your outfitters and PHs.

I do think I'll have a different thing in mind when looking at the print once I get it. No offense to Andrew, as I think he did a great job.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

5. I KNOW that if he continues with his legal action, most of the money is going to be diverted to pay his lawyers.

Well, I have to say: no doubt. Funny that a lot of those on your side are AR lawyers.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I'm on the fence with this one. It is disturbing that Stu never posted any thanks to those who contributed with either work, time, hunts, or money. I wasn't looking for it when I bought a print, but it would've been appreciated.

As many have said, legal fees will eat up much (if not all) of the funds raised. It is a highly complicated legal case, as Beretta has pointed out. There are so many jurisdictional issues. It almost reminds me of an off the wall torts exam question in law school.

It could be that Stu has a former client who specializes in personal injury and agreed to take the case on contingency as a favor. As we all know, American hunters think their PH is a hero and their best friend. I say that tongue in cheek. I know many of you have great relationships with your outfitters and PHs.

I do think I'll have a different thing in mind when looking at the print once I get it. No offense to Andrew, as I think he did a great job.

Another lawyer.......

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I'm on the fence with this one. It is disturbing that Stu never posted any thanks to those who contributed with either work, time, hunts, or money. I wasn't looking for it when I bought a print, but it would've been appreciated.

As many have said, legal fees will eat up much (if not all) of the funds raised. It is a highly complicated legal case, as Beretta has pointed out. There are so many jurisdictional issues. It almost reminds me of an off the wall torts exam question in law school.

It could be that Stu has a former client who specializes in personal injury and agreed to take the case on contingency as a favor. As we all know, American hunters think their PH is a hero and their best friend. I say that tongue in cheek. I know many of you have great relationships with your outfitters and PHs.

I do think I'll have a different thing in mind when looking at the print once I get it. No offense to Andrew, as I think he did a great job.

Another lawyer: Bla Bal bla.......... If you guy didn't have frivolous lawsuits you would be hunting rabbits here in the US.

We should be shooting and mounting you!(ha, just joking! Not really, you funkers should be dead)

Damn, nice to deal with judgmental people during Christmas.

You must've had some bad run ins with lawyers. By the way, there are many practice areas in the legal profession. There are some bad, crooked lawyers out there. I don't know what you might do for a living, but I doubt all of your colleagues have been lily white. Unfortunately, that includes people of the cloth.

For your information, I avoid engagements with hourly fees. In those few instances, I've often been disgusted with opposing counsel "papering" up cases to charge more. I can't say they all do it, but it happens.

Also, I'm glad you're not the artist behind "Lion." Your broad brush couldn't come close to the fine work of Andrew.

Jason,

You, of course, are free to think what you wish.

The way I look at it is from a real world perspective.

Stu would have been better off leaving it to Tim to try to get something for him from his insurance - IF that is at all possible.

I suspect the insurance company would dig in if they are hit with a law suit - ultimately getting Stu nothing but lawyers expenses.

Under no circumstance would I help anyone I do not know personally, finance a lawsuit to sue another individual.

It is my own personal choice, and if anyone wishes to start a collection to help Stu carry on his legal battle with Tim and his insurance, they very welcome to do so somewhere else.

But not on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:

quote:

I often wondered why Stu didn't bother to logon to AR and just say thanks.

. This was something that has bothered me for some time, 100,000.00 + sent to this guy and not one single word of appreciation from him. This speaks volumes.

He has thanked me in E mails.

Gentlemen:

Trust me, if there is anyone who dislikes scumbag litigators, it is me. They certainly exist and create massive issues/costs often with frivolous suits or outright lies. However, all lawyers aren't that way.

I see many condemning the lawyers here when I believe those doing the condemning are not getting the lawyers message. Let me try to point out what I think their points are in as few words as possible:

1- In the USA ,personal injury lawsuits are virtually always handled on a contingency basis. In other words no fees until there is a judgment and a collection.

Why pay a lawyer when one will handle an actionable claim for a percentage of the winnings, if any?

2- Just because someone did X, doesn't mean that a plaintiff can go sue in any old court. The action MUST be brought in the proper venue. Otherwise, it WILL be thrown out.

It is not very likely that a court in the USA will handle a tort claim under USA law for something that happened in Mozambique.

The lawyers here aren't defending the lawyers in the least. They are giving the reality of the case.

One other thing to remember, all lawyers are not ambulance chasing plaintiff lawyers. The legal profession has numerous areas of specialization and many of those posting here may have never even tried a case in court. So painting all lawyers with such a broad brush is a disservice to an honorable profession we need to adhere to the rule of law.

I think the main issue that troubles me here is many came to the aid of a fallen PH when an accident in the field caused him harm. We were told he needed help with medical attention and living expenses. Immediately, two great men took action, followed by others who wanted to help. My fear is the action Stu is taking will jeopardize efforts in the future to raise funds like this again. Look at young Ant, who may or may not be worse off. He COULD use our help now.

I remember this group's efforts years ago to help a "combat" veteran who posted here to go on safari. Monies were raised, fine rifles were sold on his behalf and he took advantage of everyone and treated them quite shabbily. The Forum never forgot or forgave and it should NOT HAVE. Russell was a farce and completely devoid of character. I do hope we do not suffer the same fate after this incident.

I know I will be more cautious in the future...

But that is just me.

Merry Christmas all! And Peace be with you! Sincerely!!!

I have perhaps have a different view of the legal profession. Being of the medical ilk lawyers should be my sworn enemies. However every time I have engaged legal counsel it has been a beautiful experience. I have always prevailed.

Jeff