quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Also damages measured in millions of dollars sounds nice to a plaintiffs ears but it is subject to

(1) Present Value of future earnings - no free lance PH has a PV of earnings in millions of dollars. Its daily rate X number of days hunted X tips (annual or % of annual income) X years till retirement. All present valued back and guess what - living in africa what is the correct discount rate?

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Stu's damages in this case could easily be measured in millions, not tens of thousands, of dollars.

Insurance, not charity, may provide that, or may not, depending on the outcome in this case. In my humble opinion, it should. That's its purpose.

Very well said.

I truly don't see how so many here fail to see these simple facts.

I hate frivolous lawsuits more than most people, but I don't see Stu's suit as frivolous.

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Sorry to say this but this is beginning to have the feel of a pilot for a reality TV show.

Regardless of who says what at this point the veracity will be questionable.

The one thing I have control over is what I will ever be willing to do in the future as far as lending someone a hand and I will certainly do my due diligence before that ever happens again.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Perhaps Stu and Tim would rather not see their laundry on the line here. Maybe that is why they haven't done it themselves?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Sorry to say this but this is beginning to have the feel of a pilot for a reality TV show.

Regardless of who says what at this point the veracity will be questionable.

The one thing I have control over is what I will ever be willing to do in the future as far as lending someone a hand and I will certainly do my due diligence before that ever happens again.

You obviously took offense to my statement that this started looking like a reality TV show.

On one hand we have many folks contributing in different ways to raise money and help Stu. Most in the first print run have gotten their prints and it's assumed that the money made it's way from Conservation Force to Stu.

There's a second print run in the works or perhaps completed and then an announcement that Conservation force has pulled out of this fund raiser.

1) Has the money collected for that second print run gone to Stu?

I'm glad you are not reprinting emails from Tim & CF without their permission. Good move.

2) Roland, you are a good man with a good heart. Doesn't it seem odd to you that Stu has the ability to email you, has obviously given you permission to reprint them here (at some future time) yet doesn't have the ability to create a log-on at AR to communicate directly if he has something to share?

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Perhaps Stu and Tim would rather not see their laundry on the line here. Maybe that is why they haven't done it themselves?

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Sorry to say this but this is beginning to have the feel of a pilot for a reality TV show.

Regardless of who says what at this point the veracity will be questionable.

The one thing I have control over is what I will ever be willing to do in the future as far as lending someone a hand and I will certainly do my due diligence before that ever happens again.

You obviously took offense to my statement that this started looking like a reality TV show.

On one hand we have many folks contributing in different ways to raise money and help Stu. Most in the first print run have gotten their prints and it's assumed that the money made it's way from Conservation Force to Stu.

There's a second print run in the works or perhaps completed and then an announcement that Conservation force has pulled out of this fund raiser.

1) Has the money collected for that second print run gone to Stu?

I'm glad you are not reprinting emails from Tim & CF without their permission. Good move.

2) Roland, you are a good man with a good heart. Doesn't it seem odd to you that Stu has the ability to email you, has obviously given you permission to reprint them here (at some future time) yet doesn't have the ability to create a log-on at AR to communicate directly if he has something to share?

It was not your statement at all about it as a TV Reality Show...rather your immediate sentence below it...It is what it is...you made a free comment...I did so like wise

1)John has sent all monies from both print runs

2)It is I that generated the email to Stu to send him info in regards to his print delivery. Stu didn't contact me rather, I to him.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Sorry to say this but this is beginning to have the feel of a pilot for a reality TV show.

Regardless of who says what at this point the veracity will be questionable.

The one thing I have control over is what I will ever be willing to do in the future as far as lending someone a hand and I will certainly do my due diligence before that ever happens again.

You obviously took offense to my statement that this started looking like a reality TV show.

On one hand we have many folks contributing in different ways to raise money and help Stu. Most in the first print run have gotten their prints and it's assumed that the money made it's way from Conservation Force to Stu.

There's a second print run in the works or perhaps completed and then an announcement that Conservation force has pulled out of this fund raiser.

1) Has the money collected for that second print run gone to Stu?

I'm glad you are not reprinting emails from Tim & CF without their permission. Good move.

2) Roland, you are a good man with a good heart. Doesn't it seem odd to you that Stu has the ability to email you, has obviously given you permission to reprint them here (at some future time) yet doesn't have the ability to create a log-on at AR to communicate directly if he has something to share?

It was not your statement at all about it as a TV Reality Show...rather your immediate sentence below it...It is what it is...you made a free comment...I did so like wise

1)John has sent all monies from both print runs

2)It is I that generated the email to Stu to send him info in regards to his print delivery. Stu didn't contact me rather, I to him.

My apologies Roland. That could have been worded better by me. I do not doubt your veracity of statement nor your intent in this affair. I merely meant to point out that at this point any statement, especially one delivered via a second intermediary would probably but viewed as suspect.

I gave money

I got a print

I'm done.

Peace
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Sorry to say this but this is beginning to have the feel of a pilot for a reality TV show.

Regardless of who says what at this point the veracity will be questionable.

The one thing I have control over is what I will ever be willing to do in the future as far as lending someone a hand and I will certainly do my due diligence before that ever happens again.

You obviously took offense to my statement that this started looking like a reality TV show.

On one hand we have many folks contributing in different ways to raise money and help Stu. Most in the first print run have gotten their prints and it's assumed that the money made it's way from Conservation Force to Stu.

There's a second print run in the works or perhaps completed and then an announcement that Conservation force has pulled out of this fund raiser.

1) Has the money collected for that second print run gone to Stu?

I'm glad you are not reprinting emails from Tim & CF without their permission. Good move.

2) Roland, you are a good man with a good heart. Doesn't it seem odd to you that Stu has the ability to email you, has obviously given you permission to reprint them here (at some future time) yet doesn't have the ability to create a log-on at AR to communicate directly if he has something to share?

It was not your statement at all about it as a TV Reality Show...rather your immediate sentence below it...It is what it is...you made a free comment...I did so like wise

1)John has sent all monies from both print runs

2)It is I that generated the email to Stu to send him info in regards to his print delivery. Stu didn't contact me rather, I to him.

My apologies Roland. That could have been worded better by me. I do not doubt your veracity of statement nor your intent in this affair. I merely meant to point out that at this point any statement, especially one delivered via a second intermediary would probably but viewed as suspect.

I gave money

I got a print

I'm done.

Peace
Jim

Apology accepted.

Peace!

Now let's all get outta here...and let the cards fall where they may and keep both of these men and their families in our prayers!

This is my last post!

Bless you all for giving and hope this will all come to closure soon for the two parties involved.

quote:

Beretta682E, with all due respect, you are mistaken. The measure of damages for personal injury is not so limited. Depending on the jurisdiction, it can include pain and suffering, loss of income earning ability (for as long as the remainder of the injured party's working life), medical and related expenses, including long term care, and lump sum or other compensation for the permanent nature of the injury.

Taking all of that into account, and using even modest annual income projections and a conservative inflation rate, with a likewise conservative NPV discount rate, one can easily see how Stu's proven damages claim might be well into seven figures.

And let's not kid ourselves. Few people in this world are millionaires. Insurance is what protects them when they have unintentionally hurt someone.

Most typically, that happens in motor vehicle accidents. When the insurance company is properly motivated to do so (often only after commencement of a lawsuit brought by the injured party), it will pay and permanently settle the injured party's claim in a way that protects the insured party from any further liability.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Beretta682E, with all due respect, you are mistaken. The measure of damages for personal injury is not so limited. Depending on the jurisdiction, it can include pain and suffering, loss of income earning ability (for as long as the remainder of the injured party's working life), medical and related expenses, including long term care, and lump sum or other compensation for the permanent nature of the injury.

Taking all of that into account, and using even modest annual income projections and a conservative inflation rate, with a likewise conservative NPV discount rate, one can easily see how Stu's proven damages claim might be well into seven figures.

And let's not kid ourselves. Few people in this world are millionaires. Insurance is what protects them when they have unintentionally hurt someone.

Most typically, that happens in motor vehicle accidents. When the insurance company is properly motivated to do so (often only after commencement of a lawsuit brought by the injured party), it will pay and permanently settle the injured party's claim in a way that protects the insured party from any further liability.

Mike

I am mistaken. I assumed that all these numbers daily rates tips ect were reported income. I also did not assume a zim income tax rate of 46 percent. If anyone believes anyone in zim pays 46 percent income tax and all zim ph report every cent of income (or anyone else reports income) in zim I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell. But in determining damages for lost income Stu is financially going to look no different that his black tracker. You cannot argue in front of a federal judge that as a zim citizen you have all this income when there is no paper trail of income.

Venue is very tough for this fact scenario - its not like it is a judge and jury in state court in Beaumont, Texas.

Pain and suffering - there is real pain and suffering but it is against a zim citizen with very little reported income.

Healthcare again measured by zim standard.

Overall this is a terrible tort claim and even worse jurisdiction claim.

Stu is going to lose his money (correctly donated money) to paying lawyers if he sues.

This is my spectator fact scenario - i earn my living investing on partial information sets - so its not the end of the world for me to envision outcomes.

Any litigation is going to move whatever claims Tim has against his insurance companies away from an underwriter to legal.

The process standing issues are so complicated that legal within any insurance company sill move it to outside counsel.

The outside counsels will have a field day with process standing and finally damages if Stu has funding to bring it to trial.

All is all Stu has are very very little chance of any success in a us court.

More will be spent by attorneys on all sides than the damages suffered by Stu.

This is just a total cluster f@ck. I for one have joined Jeff is "the done and dusted camp." I am done with Stu and the whole incident - my focus in hunting and this forum is burkina in 6 weeks and new hunts for 2014 - maybe save, botswana or trying to go see andrew in zambia.

happy and prosperous new year to all

mike

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
I am in possession of my lion print. What a gorgeous piece of work. Thanks all.

quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
I am still missing the lion print.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Roland,

Just received my print and I must say the packaging and presentation was first class.