This information came from one of the game scouts who hunted with them! Also, apparently on the same hunt he had a punch up with a PH by the name of Pano - on whose concession they hunted and left all the dead buffalo that ran into high grass.

I am not sure why they left them there, whether it was because difficult to film them or lack of balls.

After watching a few of the videos, Mark strikes me as the kind of guy who would jump out of a plane, and try and put his parachute on during the fall, just to make it more challenging.

Different, but not the way I'd do it.

We all love the thrill of the hunt, but none of of want to see an animal suffer or die needlessly. The videos certainly show the excitng parts. I hope that none of this is needless wounding/killing for the sake of profiteering (like so many of our current hunting magazine writers)?? Perhaps time will tell.
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
This information came from one of the game scouts who hunted with them! Also, apparently on the same hunt he had a punch up with a PH by the name of Pano - on whose concession they hunted and left all the dead buffalo that ran into high grass.

I am not sure why they left them there, whether it was because difficult to film them or lack of balls.

So you are saying he killed 24 buffalo without licenses, with a game scout there?

I have know Mark Sullivan and his family for over 20 years. Don't always agree with every thing he says but I have found him one of the most straight forward honest gentleman I have ever met. I find it funny that so many people
have so much to say about someone they have never met or stood should to shoulder with in a tight spot. Makes me think of a pack of poodles
yaping at someones heels IMHO

I must say AR needed such a thread to pick things up. Its been kind of slow around here lately
Maybe we should invite Ray back

YOUR RIGHT I MISS CATS

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
This information came from one of the game scouts who hunted with them! Also, apparently on the same hunt he had a punch up with a PH by the name of Pano - on whose concession they hunted and left all the dead buffalo that ran into high grass.

I am not sure why they left them there, whether it was because difficult to film them or lack of balls.

So you are saying he killed 24 buffalo without licenses, with a game scout there?

Yes, and I would imagine Mark Sullivan would not have been able to do practice his trade in countries like Zimbabwe.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
I must say AR needed such a thread to pick things up. Its been kind of slow around here lately
Maybe we should invite Ray back

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find some of Ray's "old words of wisdom" to get everyone mad at each other quickly. Probably find Ray's quotations to support both sides of every argument too.

Saeed:
I think you know that I have utmost respect for you. I am somewhat surprised at you for some of your responses regarding Mark the past few years. I've always known you to be and still believe you to be a fair person, not to mention an incredibly funny man, especially regarding your Walter anecdotes, which have at times had me rolling with laughter.

My suggestion for you and for those who have a problem with Mark is to call him or talk with him, man-to-man, and raise these issues with him personally.
Until I hear more than just conjecture or gossip or hearsay or just bull shit opinions, I will defend Mark Sullivan.
I don't think it's right to talk about a man behind his back and I'm surprised at some of those who have who I would think are above that kind of behavior . Where I grew up that is chicken shit and disrespectful of your own integrity, not to mention the honor of another man you are trying to destroy.

Mark Sullivan: 602-956-3551

With all due respect to ScottW above Mark Sullivan and his ilk DELIBERATELY put themselves in the public eye, inviting comment and controversy.

You make your bed, you lie in it.

I am quite sure Mark would NOT like everybody who has an opinion on him to call him - or maybe he would?????

quote:

Originally posted by ScottW:
Gents:
Not to beat a dead horse on Mark Sullivan but I, too, had similar thoughts of him from what I'd heard. However, after spending time talking with him on the phone, I am left with a totally different opinon of the man.
Yes, Mark is a great marketer of himself, a skill I do not have. Yet, I was left with the feeling that:
1.) He knows his stuff
2.) His bio was very special to me as we had a similar upbringing.
3.) I deeply respect that he chased his dream and succeeded at it.
4.) He provides an experience to those who would listen and share it with him that brings new life to a burned out soul.
5.) What's wrong with looking an animal eye to eye, him against you, with only one outcome on the board...you or him. That's soul-stirring to me.
6.) Not one person has ever been hurt from an animal while hunting with Mark.
7.) Anyone who loves old English double rifles can't be all bad!

I've bashed people before I talked with them or saw them face to face, you know, behind their back or on a forum where it's safe. I'm sorry I did, too, because as in this case I was wrong...again.

I think I understand what bothers some about Mark. I'll let others judge him. I hope to hunt with him some day, as some day when I'm drooling on myself telling safari stories in some nursing home, I'll remember the days in the field when my spirit came alive, hunting with Mark Sullivan. There'll only be one of his kind in my lifetime.

I believe this wins the award for dragging up the oldest post (about two and a half years old). And to top it off, it is a post on Mark Sullivan.

Regards,

Terry

Terry

That is what I was thinking!!

Terry:
You're right...and while we're at it lets just stop talking about this .416 vs. that .416 or this bullet vs. that bullet or this PH vs. that PH...or M70's vs. RSM's...

After a gazillion posts on most everything, not much to talk about anymore, huh?

Sounds like a great place to visit. Maybe after 5 years it is time to move on to a another forum.

I've enjoyed the visit while it lasted.

So long....

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:

quote:

Originally posted by ScottW:
Gents:
Not to beat a dead horse on Mark Sullivan but I, too, had similar thoughts of him from what I'd heard. However, after spending time talking with him on the phone, I am left with a totally different opinon of the man.
Yes, Mark is a great marketer of himself, a skill I do not have. Yet, I was left with the feeling that:
1.) He knows his stuff
2.) His bio was very special to me as we had a similar upbringing.
3.) I deeply respect that he chased his dream and succeeded at it.
4.) He provides an experience to those who would listen and share it with him that brings new life to a burned out soul.
5.) What's wrong with looking an animal eye to eye, him against you, with only one outcome on the board...you or him. That's soul-stirring to me.
6.) Not one person has ever been hurt from an animal while hunting with Mark.
7.) Anyone who loves old English double rifles can't be all bad!

I've bashed people before I talked with them or saw them face to face, you know, behind their back or on a forum where it's safe. I'm sorry I did, too, because as in this case I was wrong...again.

I think I understand what bothers some about Mark. I'll let others judge him. I hope to hunt with him some day, as some day when I'm drooling on myself telling safari stories in some nursing home, I'll remember the days in the field when my spirit came alive, hunting with Mark Sullivan. There'll only be one of his kind in my lifetime.

I believe this wins the award for dragging up the oldest post (about two and a half years old). And to top it off, it is a post on Mark Sullivan.

Regards,

Terry

Nope. Idaho Sharpshooter dredged up a thread that hadn't been active for almost four years.

George

I called Mark S. using the number from www.nitroexpresssafaris.com and DID speak with him.

Actually I left a message and HE called me back. He left a message as I missed his call back to me.

I called him back, missed him and left a 2nd message. He returned that call too, and we talked about 1/2 hour on HIS DIME!

I enjoyed our exchange alot. I asked many "Why do YOU do such and such, this way and not that way?" questions.

He took his time, answered in straight forward terms, was completely unevasive & stood up for his positions with no apologies.

I am not saying he's perfect, but the limited personal contact I've had with him makes me want to speak to him in person.

I think he knows what a PRO has to know. And he really is a BRITISH Double Rifle advocate.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottW:
Terry:
You're right...and while we're at it lets just stop talking about this .416 vs. that .416 or this bullet vs. that bullet or this PH vs. that PH...or M70's vs. RSM's...

After a gazillion posts on most everything, not much to talk about anymore, huh?

Sounds like a great place to visit. Maybe after 5 years it is time to move on to a another forum.

I've enjoyed the visit while it lasted.

So long....

So long....and goodbye.

Regards,

Terry

I think Saeed's post about shooting over 100 buffalo and not having a single charge is provactive. I have only shot 4 buffalo and not had one charge. But over 100? As Saeed said, something is amiss here.

When you look at the videos, you can see some of those animals are clearly getting ready to get up. Why wait until the animal is on all fours before shooting again? Why aren't the clients shooting at the animals they paid for? Forget about the stories from scouts, just answer that question if you support this guy.

Mark Sullivan may be a great PH. And maybe he hasn't had a single client injured. But I would never book with the guy simply because I think he would shoot my animal. And if he doesn't shoot the client's animals, how does he film so many himself? Is he buying licenses himself? Is there a public record of that?

quote:

Originally posted by ScottW:
Saeed:
I think you know that I have utmost respect for you. I am somewhat surprised at you for some of your responses regarding Mark the past few years. I've always known you to be and still believe you to be a fair person, not to mention an incredibly funny man, especially regarding your Walter anecdotes, which have at times had me rolling with laughter.

My suggestion for you and for those who have a problem with Mark is to call him or talk with him, man-to-man, and raise these issues with him personally.
Until I hear more than just conjecture or gossip or hearsay or just bull shit opinions, I will defend Mark Sullivan.
I don't think it's right to talk about a man behind his back and I'm surprised at some of those who have who I would think are above that kind of behavior . Where I grew up that is chicken shit and disrespectful of your own integrity, not to mention the honor of another man you are trying to destroy.

Mark Sullivan: 602-956-3551

Scott,

With all due respect, I have hunted long enough, and have spoken to a number of PH who have spent a life time of hunting. And we all agreed that there is NO WAY IN HELL would one get charged by so many buffalos.

What Mark Sullivan says on his web site - "letting the buffalo decide how he wants to die" or something to that effect, is the silliest comment anyone who loves hunting would say.

The buffalo did not have any say on him being shot, and it is up to us to make sure he does not suffer unduly.

Mark Sullivan can claim whatever he wishes, but there is no way he is going to convince me that what he does is ethical hunting.

I can only say one thing about more MS discussion:

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
I can only say one thing about more MS discussion:

How about this as the final word -

or or


I tend agree with Saeed, if my vote counts for anything....

Ditto on Saeed's comment insofar as I am concerned.

I've stayed out of these MS discussions so far but I would like to make one comment. If the safari experience with MS is like his videos I would not buy that experience. His videos make almost all my first time clients ask if the PH will be shooting their game. What MS shows in his videos is an unrealistic picture of what safari is like for almost all clients and I think that's where he really picks up the negative attitude from the industry.

I know several people including a PH that have hunted with him and love him. Also it would seem he is a good PH and safari companion that has many satisfied clients. I just don't think he is offering what I want in a safari.

Mark

Every actual person that has DIRECT experience has made favourable comments. I don't believe anyone with real DIRECT experience has said anything negative.

As for the films why is it so confusing to understand they are made as commercial entertainment?!

(edited) PS Saeed, thanks for the reply above.

Saheed,

Your point that MS can't be involve in so many charges without doing something unethical to promote the charge seems like it could be true. But you forget one thing. MS actually walks up to a wounded buff after its been wounded, he moves within the buffalo's fight or flight space. Then the buff either runs or charges. You have shot many buffalo, but how many that have been wounded were then followed up and shot at 50 to 80 yards or more. This is the way most wounded buff are finally dispatched. MS doesn't do it that way. He walks right up close and in his words gives the animal a choice of how it is to die, fighting or running away. This method of following up wounded buff of course causes more charges. That is the point of his hunting method. So your ratio's while holding weight on the method you use to hunt with is probably correct. But not so with MS's style. Also on his hippo hunts the animal's are not wounded. They are just intruded apon and their fight or flight space is invaded. So they charge or run.

Maineguide1

I hope you won't mind me disagreeing with some of your comments. - I've hunted quite a lot of Buffalo - mostly as a PH - and I have a fairly wide circle of friends who are also PHs. From my personal experience and also from conversations with those PHs, the vast majority of wounded Buffalo are tracked into fairly dense cover and generally get dispatched at ranges of about 20 yards or less....... further away than that, you either can't see 'em at all, or if you can, you can't see enough to place a killing shot. - In fact, I can honestly say, I don't think I've ever taken more than one or two Buff at more than 60 yards in all the years I've been hunting here in Africa.

I've never hunted with Mark, or even met him, but from the videos I've seen, he would appear to get more charges in a season than I've had in any 10 year period out of the 26 years I've been hunting in Africa......... Like him, I like to hunt in thick bush and get in very close to DG before the shot - but the difference I note from the videos I've seen, is that once the animal is down but not out, he deliberately allows the animal to see him and get up and charge..... whereas, I don't. When I see the downed animal, I'll ALWAYS approach the animal from behind, then manouvre into a position where either myself or preferably my client can get a shot and kill the animal as soon as possible.

Admittedly, all animals have sight, flight and fight zones but don't for a moment think that all African animals (DG or otherwise) will always charge. I've had a few occasions over the last two or three years for example when I've been almost within ass kicking range of unwounded Hippos and have been able to back out of the situation without having to shoot them..... On occasion, they haven't even known I was there at all.

I deliberately haven't commented on what I think is right and wrong on this subject - but lets face it, no two hunters are alike and nor are any two PHs alike. For every type of client there's a type of PH that suits his hunting style. My guess is that a lot of what happens on the videos is done just for the videos, and his normal hunting style is probably nothing like what is portrayed in those videos...... Whether thats true or not, it cannot be denied he's very successful in what he does. The videos sell like hotcakes and I've no doubt he's fully booked 2 or 3 years in advance. Those that want to hunt with him, will continue, not only to do so - but also pay a premium price for it. - Those that don't want to hunt with him, probably never will.

quote:

Originally posted by Maineguide1:
Saheed,

Your point that MS can't be involve in so many charges without doing something unethical to promote the charge seems like it could be true. But you forget one thing. MS actually walks up to a wounded buff after its been wounded, he moves within the buffalo's fight or flight space. Then the buff either runs or charges. You have shot many buffalo, but how many that have been wounded were then followed up and shot at 50 to 80 yards or more. This is the way most wounded buff are finally dispatched. MS doesn't do it that way. He walks right up close and in his words gives the animal a choice of how it is to die, fighting or running away. This method of following up wounded buff of course causes more charges. That is the point of his hunting method. So your ratio's while holding weight on the method you use to hunt with is probably correct. But not so with MS's style. Also on his hippo hunts the animal's are not wounded. They are just intruded apon and their fight or flight space is invaded. So they charge or run.

Most of the buffalo I have seen shot would die from the first shot anyway. By the time we get to them, they generally do not have enough energy left to charge. But, we dispatch them quickly nonetheless.

I have a friend who is a PH, and has been for over 30 years. He himself has shot over 500 buffalo, in addition to the ones he had guided clients to.

He has only been charged ONCE! By an old cow he met in the bush. He had never seen this cow before.

If the first shot is well placed, it most unlikely a buffalo would charge any way.

So it would seem Mark Sullivan gets an extraordinary bad lot of hunters as clients to wound so many buffalo.

No wonder none of them complains!

i agree with saeed on every count, based on common sense.talks with locals.writings from selous and such.

i heard this bird has so many buff charges because after his clients shoot their contracted buff he gives them another (free) buff if they wound him first.which results in a charge or a poor mortally wounded buff waiting to be finished.

i took great pride in snubbing him at the sci show in reno and pushing thru his wide eyed wannabes while he was at his braggadocios best and blocking the aisle telling his bull shit tales.

nothing like a 100 u.s. dollars to make a game scout look the other way.

All of his clients come back as say that he is the best, so I think we can say that some of what happens in he videos has to do with the "production." A good example of this would be the scene when Allen stands up next to him in the cruiser and MS tells him to sit back down(because he wants him out of the shot). Poor editing allowed this to make it into the final print. When I first saw this video I did not know who Allen or MS were and I thought Allen was treated poorly. Now after hearing Allen defend MS as the best PH he has hunted with I think it is fair to say that the scene was taken out of context. For some reason things in videos tend to seem more important and profound than the do in real life. I wonder if the time that it takes to dispatch the animals in the videos is similarly affected.

Now it is clear that MS's hunting method is bound to stir us some controversy. But the thing that I can't get over is how all of his clients love him but the people who meet him at the safari shows are much more divided. Some say, "MS is the greatest, he can be my wing-man anytime!" while others say, "that guy is a walking ego and more full of shit than a Christmas goose."

And we wonder why the debate continues!

Jason

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
All of his clients come back as say that he is the best, so I think we can say that some of what happens in he videos has to do with the "production." A good example of this would be the scene when Allen stands up next to him in the cruiser and MS tells him to sit back down(because he wants him out of the shot). Poor editing allowed this to make it into the final print. When I first saw this video I did not know who Allen or MS were and I thought Allen was treated poorly. Now after hearing Allen defend MS as the best PH he has hunted with I think it is fair to say that the scene was taken out of context.
Jason

Which video was that?

quote:

Which video was that?

The one Allen was in

I don't mean to be a smart ass but I don't remember the name. Jason

"Mbogo" possibly?