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Picture of NitroX
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Sky:
Please nobody take offense I just find the similarity very funny.

Here's a photo of the lead singer to Queen Freddie Mercury.

Now here's a photo of Mark Sullivan

Big Sky

Do you know Freddie Mercury was born on the island of Zanzibar which is part of Tanzania. And Mark Sullivan hunts in Tanzania.

[Big Grin]
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwanamich:
From Mark Sullivan's website;

another quote form his site:

quote:
...What could possibly be more ethical or moral than to give the wounded beast a fighting chance, knowing full well that if I do not stop his charge, I will die? What more can I do to show my respect than to offer my life in return? This is a serious matter, because if I fail to kill him, I assure you, he will kill me. Death is certain to become one of us.
Hang on a minute. Who is the hunter, the client or the PH? Is it not the client who is supposed to be doing the shooting including the dispatch of a wounded buffalo? Perhaps MS does the shooting after asking the client to deliberately gut-shoot the buff [Wink] [Big Grin] [Wink] [Big Grin] [Confused]

Enough said!

I think it is called marketing and his usual hype. If you read what Allen Day said he expects to shoot all his own animals and also if Sullivan markets he can produce buffalo charges for the client as someone once said, he is hardly going to shoot it for them.

Also if most buffalo do not go down quickly on the first shot it is hardly necessary to "gut-shoot" them to get a charge. I would think (from my limited experience - perhaps someone can comment) that not firing additional shots from afar but instead approaching the buffalo from the front and perhaps upwind into its "danger zone" might provoke a charge.

My one and only buffalo was shot solidly through the chest. I shot it again after maybe a minute. It still took a number of minutes to die. I would think approaching it during this time and especially before the second bullet could result in a charge. We just sat by quietly waiting for it to die and I consider it a very ethical hunt. Why would it be less ethical to provoke a charge to finish it off with a brain shot during a charge ???? [Confused]

I think the people that blaze away shooting off a dozen shots up the arse of a fleeing buff might be the ones who produce more suffering for the beast. [Confused]

I think the production of the videos where the main purpose is to get action for the videos which is what everyone sees and the actual client/PH hunts which no one else sees might be different and the difference confusing some people.

[ 11-15-2003, 02:58: Message edited by: NitroX ]
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I think the world, including many hunters, is falling into the bleeding heart fad that is running rampant on these forums and in hunting publications. It has sudennly become "unethical" to shoot at running game or take "offhand" shots. Maybe we should shout unethical at those who refuse, or are too lazy, to practice and gain experience with their chosen weapon. So instead of shooting critisism from a chair why don't we get out there and get some experience. This way we can make an educated contribution instead of wild accusations based on nothing more than rumur.

Chuck
 
Posts: 2659 | Location: Southwestern Alberta | Registered: 08 March 2003Reply With Quote
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You can try to whitewash this anyway you care to, but it is just total crap for Sullivan to wind up shooting his clients buffalo, and to goad so many wounded buffalo into charging.

There are a lot of PH's that have never been charged by buff.

"letting them choose how to die..."

What a load of bullshit.
 
Posts: 19389 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Talk to any other PH at SCI and they'll all tell you:

Mark Sullivan is a rogue sensationalist that elevates the worst part of what hunting is about - provoked confrontations in order to hype the mystique regarding dangerous game hunting in Africa.

Its as if World Wrestling found its niche in African hunting. Its perfect cannon fodder for the anti-hunter set, and cuts against the grain of every African hunter's best intentions.

Purely and simply a morbid show designed to increase sales of his books and videotapes and to motivate customers to book circus "freak show" hunts with his company.

PAULUS
 
Posts: 27 | Location: Los Angeles, California | Registered: 27 August 2003Reply With Quote
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I personal do not care for Marks mocho/ role playing in his videos. As long as animals are not intentionally wounded or unduly stressed. I could care less if he internally confronts a animal knowing its more likely to charge. Or chooses to wait a half a hour to let him die on it own(which is undoubtedly safer). I personally feel we as hunters owe it to the animal to safely dispatch it as quickly & humanely as possible. One thing I like is I have never heard Mark being described by one of his hunters as dishonest.

One thing I know for sure he will shoot straight, or his last video will become a collectors piece!
 
Posts: 599 | Location: Soldotna Alaska | Registered: 05 May 2003Reply With Quote
<allen day>
posted
Lots of "credible" testimony added to the discussion!

That "fight story" sounds like something an semi-imaginative fourteen year-old kid would make up. Yeah, right...

Will, when I hunted with Mark, no one was goading any animal to charge, and no one was shooting any animal for me. We hunted straight up, period, and I'm not whitewashing anything.

How many of you Sullivan "experts" have actually been in camp with him and have hunted with him?

AD
 
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Picture of Will
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Allen,

That is why I said in my other post about maybe it being different in person.

I know, though, a lot of excuses and passes are made in the name of marketing. Maybe I just grew up with "father Knows Best" and "Leave it to Beaver" and "Andy Griffith," and I'm out of touch with what is right and wrong these days.

But come on, Allen, you would have to admit his videos just suck pond water.
 
Posts: 19389 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Saeed,
That is what happened to with Adam Clemments, but I didn't know it came to a fight between them....Adam swears that is what happened and I have talked to several others who also were witness to this...That is all heresay on my part but I do believe it happened...

I understand that Mark cannot have a concession in Tanzania but must hunt for someone else, but a little bribe here and there could have fixed that...

Thats all I know on that situation and am passing it on for what its worth...
 
Posts: 42320 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of NitroX
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I wonder how many guys on this discussion that think MS's videos are crap, bought one, and then bought another and maybe even bought others when they came out? [Confused]

Come on confess up how many you have.

[ 11-16-2003, 06:10: Message edited by: NitroX ]
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Never bought one never will. Saw the stuff, didnt care for it. Staged or real I dont know, dont care either way. Very negative!
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Will
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NiroX,

Hey, I admit I bought Black death, and then a couple more. They just kept getting worse and worse. If I wasn't so slow, [Smile] I would have quit while I was ahead!
 
Posts: 19389 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Gentlemen,

We have several of his videos, and we do watch them sometimes.

We use them as a perfect example of the sort of PH one should avoid at any cost.

I think the name Professional Hunter does not apply to MS.
 
Posts: 69697 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I bought the only two MS videos that a Cabela's store in South Dakota had at the time. Then I bought the _Death and Double Rifles_ book and read it cover to cover. Then I got tired of MS.

Cabela's soon yanked all the videos and sells them no more? Smacks of PC or censorship, or was MS just not getting enough money out of the Cabela's deal, wanted to jack the prices up?

It is all about MS sucking us for money, and he has been very efficient at appealing to us johns in a tootin' kind of way.

I don't want to give in to weakness any more.

Freddy Mercury might not be to far off. Did he go for chest thumping he-man bwana wannabe's too? Just like MS? [Embarrassed]
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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I had the opportunity of sharing camp with MS and his client in Rungwa in 1996 - luckily only for two nights, though. From what I experienced throughout the two evenings at the camp fire and around the dinner table I can only say that I hope that this chance encounter will never be repeated.

MS has NO regard or respect for game and wildlife, neither before, during, or after the actual hunt! In the instances I observed, he and his client left a buffalo carcass to rot in the bush since it "would have been uncomfortable" to bring meat back of a late evening kill and the next morning they killed a sub-adult lion from a pair of nomads. Our party had observed these lions on a kill, during the previous day and we were foolish enough to reveal their location at camp.

MS' swaggering, boasting and his obtrusive manners around camp were unbearable - our entire party (which included the camp manager and his girl friend, one visiting PH, my PH, my wife and myself) felt that the hunting world would be much better off without "characters" like MS. The icing on the cake was MS putting a tape with rock music into his cassette recorder and treating all of us to some blaring music at the fire!

After that particular season MS lost his Tanzanian PH license - but unfortunately something (!!!) made him getting it back.

Some years later I passed MS� booth at SCI and I was rather dismayed by the attention his videos were getting from a visibly spell-bound crowd. MS may be excellent at marketing, but he is a disgrace to hunting and conservation.

Muskwa
 
Posts: 42 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 18 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Sometimes, the things that make us are the things that break us. At least he is living the life he wants. I admire that, very much.
 
Posts: 11017 | Registered: 14 December 2000Reply With Quote
<allen day>
posted
Man, what a self-righteous bunch! At least you all can say you're "politically correct" as you stand in judgement on someone none of you has hunted with or knows personally. It's always easy to gang up when you think you've got popular opinion on your side, isn't it?

I'd rather stand alone on this one, I'm afraid.

AD

[ 11-16-2003, 22:36: Message edited by: allen day ]
 
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Allen,

Are you available for a good stoning? [Smile]
 
Posts: 19389 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Allen: To use the vernacular "you ain't alone" on this one. Read my post above. jorge
 
Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I've watched the preview of the videos, offered on the site. I must admit that he sure knows how to hit them up close. I've never been in the situation, I can imagine it takes some guts to stay cool and shoot straight. As a hunter I enjoy watching a good shot. Nothing wrong with that part of the story.

I don't understand his "letting him choose his destiny" philosophy. I marvel his skills, but I doubt his sanity to seek the charge, if a well-placed shot from cover would have dealt with the situation. Moreover, if the shot from a distance would have ended the situation sooner, I figure that preferable over the situation in which a stalk has to be made, with uncertain outcome. MS might not care getting killed by a wounded buff, the question is how many more will that buff kill or maim before it reaches his end.

Not being convinced by the short words on his website, about the philosophical side of his actions, all I see is a thrill seeker. I'd have to read his books, and listen to his explanations to judge him (or rather make up my own mind about him). Doubt if he can make his thoughts stick on me though.

BTW, I'm amazed how buff and hippo can *not* react to close-up shots from a heavy caliber. I also find the way lions seem to react to the shot rather unnerving. Deer seem to be much more placid, and "civilized" about dying: either drop dead, or run off and drop dead. The lions in the video really show off the agony. Not meaning to imply anything, just an observation.

Frans
 
Posts: 1717 | Location: Alberta, Canada | Registered: 17 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Allen you are not alone here.
First the videos:
In Mark I see a person who loves the hunt and honors the game taken. He may be a bit extreme for the average hunter, but no more so than other people I know that do extreme sports, and make no mistake about it dangerous game is an extreme sport. Those of us that do it do it because of the danger... otherwise we might just as well play golf. There is a bit of theratricts [is that a word?] in his videos... so?
Some poeple only ride in airplanes, others jump out. As I have stated I have talked to him on a couple of occasions and found him to be a pleasant fellow, with a certain amount of confidence for sure. What amazies me is... he is criticized for standing firm and successfully stopping many charges... The people I would be critizing are the ones that have NOT successfully stopped charges and have been CHEWED. [Eek!]
I know who I would rather hunt with. [Wink]
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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What a croc!
 
Posts: 42320 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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What a croc, part II.
 
Posts: 19389 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Allen you are not alone here.
First the videos:
In Mark I see a person who loves the hunt and honors the game taken. [...] What amazies me is... he is criticized for standing firm and successfully stopping many charges... [Wink]

I don't think he's critized for stopping charges and standing firm, that would be rediculous. I'm assuming people critizise his deliberately provoking charges, and putting off killing the beast in doing so...at least that is what I picked up from comments of hunters, that had been watching some of his videos at the Dortmund show a few years ago. All this talk about "letting the animal choose" sounds just like an attempt at a justification for his getting his adrenaline fix.

Frans
 
Posts: 1717 | Location: Alberta, Canada | Registered: 17 March 2003Reply With Quote
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What a CROCK OF SH!# Part III.

MS is just a prostitute.

He puts the UGLY back in AMERICAN.

I am anti-politically-correct as can be, and I don't think those of us calling "crock" are PC at all.

We are just disgusted. We feel we have been "stuffed" by MS, just as he stuffs up the game animals for the video camera.

MS is the "stuffer" and the game animals, safari devotees, and the entire hunting community are the stuffee's.

And MS laughs all the way to the bank, and he is his own pimp! What a gigolo!
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Never seen a Croc charge before [Confused] . Where do I get that video, parts I, II & III ?

[Big Grin]

Allen

Don't worry, I'm sure this thread is helping sell videos like hot cakes at the moment, [Wink]
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Allen, your loyalty to your friend is admirable but his image problem is exactly that .. his image problem. You have other friends too, and they're hoping you'll stop beating yourself up, everytime this theme resurfaces.
 
Posts: 11017 | Registered: 14 December 2000Reply With Quote
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I have a friend who I like a great deal. He's always been a good friend to me and as far as I know he's always done the "right thing". Still, he has some "peculiarities" and does and says some things that are often inexplicable and downright peculiar. I, and his other friends, generally respond to stories of his pecadillos with a smile and a "yep, my friend Scott."

My point is that many of us have friends that are, well, strange sometimes. We truly like them, get on well with them and don't have any complaints. But, we do recognize their faults. That's just life. I bet there's somebody out there thinking pretty much the same thing about each of us.

I don't this Mike Sullivan, but he sure seems like "my friend Scott."
 
Posts: 2324 | Location: Staunton, VA | Registered: 05 September 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Will
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Nickudu,

You kill-joy. I still want Allen to accept a public stoning. [Smile]

You can see I don't have enough to keep me busy!
 
Posts: 19389 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Gentlemen,

There is NO WAY in hell anyone can get so many buffalos to charge without doing something drastically wrong.

I have shot over 100 buffalo myself, and have seen many others being shot, at no time did I ever see a single charge.

And his statement "Rather than deciding the fate of a wounded Cape buffalo by simply blasting him into oblivion on the follow-up, I would confront the grand warrior with my double rifle, and beckon him to choose his own destiny..."

Did anyone ever tell him the buffalo never asked to choose his own destiny?
 
Posts: 69697 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Good point, Saeed.
MS should go stuff himself!
MS equivalents:
...
Mark Sullivan
...
Macho Sheister
...
Money Stuffer
...
Mighty Stinky
...
Movie Star
...
Mucho Sicko
...
Can sumbuddy help me with some more MS equivalents? The MS Weblog ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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MS might be a good shot with his doubles, he might know how to judge a trophy buffalo, etc, he might even know how to track critters, he might know more about ballistics and firearms than most of us, I'll even concede he may know how to hunt, I'm sure he knows how to "make" money, I know he can stop a charge form a wounded buffalo, and I'll take Allen Day's word that in "real" life he is a nice guy BUT.....

He can't honestly call himself a Professional Hunter!!!

Ray: Can you get Adam to confirm that incident on this thread? Maybe MS can give us his side of the coin! Should make for some interesting reading though for those (like many on this forum)that have too much spare time on our hands [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Happy hunting!
 
Posts: 3035 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Did anyone see what happened this year at SCI?

There was a big stink over the SCI "video ethics" policies. There was a big hoopla over what could and could not be shown at the convention. They settled their dispute by making MS put butcher paper over his TV sets. People had to lift the paper to see what was playing. I think they actually helped him sell videos by doing this.

Sincerely,
John Barth
 
Posts: 157 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Sullivan & SCI have been going at it for years.
He's winning.
 
Posts: 11017 | Registered: 14 December 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by jcbarth:
Did anyone see what happened this year at SCI?

There was a big stink over the SCI "video ethics" policies. There was a big hoopla over what could and could not be shown at the convention. They settled their dispute by making MS put butcher paper over his TV sets. People had to lift the paper to see what was playing. I think they actually helped him sell videos by doing this.

Sincerely,
John Barth

Gary Bogner, the SCI President, caught somebody looking under the paper to watch the video. He evidently went into a screaming frenzy and even managed to stop the Amazon Dancers in the next booth with his show. One of the people witnessing this said his face was so red that he thought he was going to have a heart attack.
[Wink]

Lead by example, that's what I always say. [Wink]
 
Posts: 6277 | Location: Not Likely, but close. | Registered: 12 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Bwanamich,
No, I wouldn't ask Adam to do that for several reasons, one being its not that important to me and second he and I are not on the best of terms these days, as I had some minor problems with him and Pano Calavarez, over some shoddy treatment of my hunters at one time, it got strightened out, but it left a bad taste with me......

All this stuff on Mark Sullivan is of no real concern to me...I know he is a good hunter and knows his business, I don't approve of his approach and would never hunt or book with/for him, and I suspect he can live with that! [Razz] but hey some folks probably feel the same way about me, so there ya go...I can live with that and so can he is the bottom line.

Certainly nothing is going to get solved on the internet nor should it....We like a little gossip now and then, and MS can stir the troops about as well as anyone I know, but so can a 404 being a better gun than a 416 Rigby, which it is btw... [Big Grin]
 
Posts: 42320 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Gents:
Not to beat a dead horse on Mark Sullivan but I, too, had similar thoughts of him from what I'd heard. However, after spending time talking with him on the phone, I am left with a totally different opinon of the man.
Yes, Mark is a great marketer of himself, a skill I do not have. Yet, I was left with the feeling that:
1.) He knows his stuff
2.) His bio was very special to me as we had a similar upbringing.
3.) I deeply respect that he chased his dream and succeeded at it.
4.) He provides an experience to those who would listen and share it with him that brings new life to a burned out soul.
5.) What's wrong with looking an animal eye to eye, him against you, with only one outcome on the board...you or him. That's soul-stirring to me.
6.) Not one person has ever been hurt from an animal while hunting with Mark.
7.) Anyone who loves old English double rifles can't be all bad!

I've bashed people before I talked with them or saw them face to face, you know, behind their back or on a forum where it's safe. I'm sorry I did, too, because as in this case I was wrong...again.

I think I understand what bothers some about Mark. I'll let others judge him. I hope to hunt with him some day, as some day when I'm drooling on myself telling safari stories in some nursing home, I'll remember the days in the field when my spirit came alive, hunting with Mark Sullivan. There'll only be one of his kind in my lifetime.


SCI, NRA Life Member

Warm trails and blue skies!
 
Posts: 182 | Registered: 11 May 2005Reply With Quote
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Scott,

You might wish to ask him how many buffalo he had to kill - illegally - to film one charge.

The rate I hear is 1 in 24!


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69697 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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One thing anbout Mark Sullivan is that he likes to get close.
Some clients just do not have the skill to handle DG up close and persdonal.
I have never seen any evidence in MS videos that there is any "wounding" on purpose.

Whether you like him or not his videos should be required for any person hunting DG.

Knowing his technique saved my life.
No doubt about it.

I have shot 3 elephants, and a charging gorilla, at 6 yards and under.

I fear no evil, because I am a student of the MS technique, and I have a double rifle.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Scott,

You might wish to ask him how many buffalo he had to kill - illegally - to film one charge.

The rate I hear is 1 in 24!


Saeed

Are you able to elaborate on the source of the claim?


__________________________

John H.

..
NitroExpress.com - the net's double rifle forum
 
Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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