Here is a GREAT BIT OF NEWS- NOMINATION OF CHIPMAN FOR ATF IS WITHDRAWN!!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/...reaking-2021-09-09-2

THE BAD NEWS...NRA ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE!! NOT A MENTION OF NRA IN THIS NEWS RELEASE!! UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES NRA WOULD HAVE BEEN LEADING THE FIGHT!! NOT A WORD...

THIS IS SERIOUS, WE ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED WHEN WE NEED IT MOST!!

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Here is a GREAT BIT OF NEWS- NOMINATION OF CHIPMAN FOR ATF IS WITHDRAWN!!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/...reaking-2021-09-09-2

THE BAD NEWS...NRA ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE!! NOT A MENTION OF NRA IN THIS NEWS RELEASE!! UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES NRA WOULD HAVE BEEN LEADING THE FIGHT!! NOT A WORD...

THIS IS SERIOUS, WE ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED WHEN WE NEED IT MOST!!

Why wound the anti-NRA press give the NRA any credit?

The NRA was most certainly involved as was SCI. I got mailings from both on this matter . Both asked that we contact our legislators.

I have no idea who was most effective but the NRA was absolutely involved .

The Anti NRA press gives the NRA credit for the nominees withdrawal bc said credit allows the Progressive Left to say, “See! Look how the evil NRA engaged in black arts to force the withdrawal of a highly qualified ARF Boss whose only son was he was going to stop the pipeline of guns fueling mass shootings.” Cue the face of the anti gun movement from Florida night club, a mom from Sandy Hook, a female high school shooting survivor to tell us how awful the withdrawal is.

If you want to give credit, then give it to Senator Joe Manchin a Democrat from West Virginia. Joe Manchin is the only finger in the dike. We better give him something he say yes to somewhere else.

One more Dem Senator and the hand break has fallen off.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Here is a GREAT BIT OF NEWS- NOMINATION OF CHIPMAN FOR ATF IS WITHDRAWN!!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/...reaking-2021-09-09-2

THE BAD NEWS...NRA ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE!! NOT A MENTION OF NRA IN THIS NEWS RELEASE!! UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES NRA WOULD HAVE BEEN LEADING THE FIGHT!! NOT A WORD...

THIS IS SERIOUS, WE ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED WHEN WE NEED IT MOST!!

I have been vocally and publicly critical of NRA's leadership and feel strongly that Wayne and Co. need to go. That said, the folks at ILA are continuing to do their great work both in D.C. and in the state capitols, despite all of the internal strife.

I've read every document that I could get my hands on related to NRA's troubles and the corruption and waste goes beyond anything that I could have imagined, even as a former employee. What was conspicuously absent from all of these reports were any allegations of wrongdoing by ILA. Chris Cox was one of the good guys and Jason Ouimet has carried that torch. ILA lobbyists work hard and don't make much compared to their private-sector peers.

The great irony is that members primarily join or make contributions to combat anti-gun politicians, which is purely the purview of ILA. Very little of that money ever flowed to that division, instead being washed through Ackerman-McQueen at the behest of NRA execs.

The question is: how do we support ILA without propping up NRA's sixth-floor leadership? I'm sorry to say that I don't know the answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Here is a GREAT BIT OF NEWS- NOMINATION OF CHIPMAN FOR ATF IS WITHDRAWN!!

https://www.theepochtimes.com/...reaking-2021-09-09-2

THE BAD NEWS...NRA ABSENT WITHOUT LEAVE!! NOT A MENTION OF NRA IN THIS NEWS RELEASE!! UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES NRA WOULD HAVE BEEN LEADING THE FIGHT!! NOT A WORD...

THIS IS SERIOUS, WE ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED WHEN WE NEED IT MOST!!

I have been vocally and publicly critical of NRA's leadership and feel strongly that Wayne and Co. need to go. That said, the folks at ILA are continuing to do their great work both in D.C. and in the state capitols, despite all of the internal strife.

I've read every document that I could get my hands on related to NRA's troubles and the corruption and waste goes beyond anything that I could have imagined, even as a former employee. What was conspicuously absent from all of these reports were any allegations of wrongdoing by ILA. Chris Cox was one of the good guys and Jason Ouimet has carried that torch. ILA lobbyists work hard and don't make much compared to their private-sector peers.

The great irony is that members primarily join or make contributions to combat anti-gun politicians, which is purely the purview of ILA. Very little of that money ever flowed to that division, instead being washed through Ackerman-McQueen at the behest of NRA execs.

The question is: how do we support ILA without propping up NRA's sixth-floor leadership? I'm sorry to say that I don't know the answer.

Yup.

I can tell you that Jason has been to my office . He wants to hunt a gator. When I find a big one at my place, I e mail Jason. Every single time he is totally tied up fighting anti-gun measures . They are definitely involved in defending the second amendment.

I don’t agree with a lot of what has happened. Having said that , we had best be careful. We don’t want to win the battle but lose the war .

We need more members like Chris Cox and Jason Ouimet, and I agree Larry, we need to clean house but carefully. Our enemies are inside the wire. LDK

I am pleased to hear all of this feedback!!

EPOCH TIMES is a VERY CONSERVATIVE and well balanced reporting organization, that is NOT injecting bias or politics and opinion.

Maybe they did the NRA a favor and kept them out if the limelight on this one??

I did get one request from GRASS ROOTS ILA to contact my Senators. I responded faithfully.... but my 2 VERY DEMOCRATIC SEATTLE .... nuf said!!

Here's hopin!@!

The key in this battle is that in just over a year, we have probably the most important election in history... to save our Country.... AND save our GUNS!!

The NRA MUST be fully active in this election cycle.... and I see the NYAG keeping this tied up thru this cycle??

Is this planned and intentional??

That said, she is going to be busy running her own campaign for Governor??

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
https://www.theguardian.com/us...ation-withdrawal-nra

Well, well, Sleepy Joe seems to have come to his senses, this once at least!

Finally, some "credit" but also Kicking while they are down stuff!! Guardian is a UK backed News group, but they tend to be far more Transparent in Reporting vs OPINION stuff we see from US Liberal Media!!

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Watched the video with interest. My observations:

1.Wayne looked nervous and inexperienced. Buck fever? It's happened to all of us.

2. The film went public via The New Yorker magazine. Did you read all of the negative comments that followed? We are fighting a losing battle, folks.

3. Wayne has a hot wife. Small boobs but very pretty face. And, she hunts! She handled the recoil well, I thought.

4. The rifle was as ugly as Janet Reno in a thong.

Cheers, all,
Cal

Still trying to get that Janet Reno in a thong visual out of my mind ... I have guided a long time ago in the Bob Marshall, only been guided twice. Worst thing a guide can do besides shoot your game for you is say "Shoot! Shoot!". I'd love to see a golf caddy do that on the PGA tour on the first tee. He'd probably get the same treatment Tiger did from his ex wife.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
https://www.theguardian.com/us...ation-withdrawal-nra

While I would never pretend to speak for Larry…seems his point here is spot on — NRA is still working in our best interest.

We hunters are OFTEN our own worst enemies. We are quick to bite the hand that feeds us at times. The NRA is the reason we maintain our gun liberties. I for one refuse to abandon and bad mouth them in public (Reagan’s 11th Commandment).

Don’t get me wrong though…we do need to fix them from within.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
https://www.theguardian.com/us...ation-withdrawal-nra

While I would never pretend to speak for Larry…seems his point here is spot on — NRA is still working in our best interest.

We hunters are OFTEN our own worst enemies. We are quick to bite the hand that feeds us at times. The NRA is the reason we maintain our gun liberties. I for one refuse to abandon and bad mouth them in public (Reagan’s 11th Commandment).

Don’t get me wrong though…we do need to fix them from within.

But if you don’t fix your own house, someone else will fix it for you.

Not to your liking!

WLP should have gone years ago.

The way the board works seems to be a big obstacle!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
https://www.theguardian.com/us...ation-withdrawal-nra

While I would never pretend to speak for Larry…seems his point here is spot on — NRA is still working in our best interest.

We hunters are OFTEN our own worst enemies. We are quick to bite the hand that feeds us at times. The NRA is the reason we maintain our gun liberties. I for one refuse to abandon and bad mouth them in public (Reagan’s 11th Commandment).

Don’t get me wrong though…we do need to fix them from within.

Bingo

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
https://www.theguardian.com/us...ation-withdrawal-nra

While I would never pretend to speak for Larry…seems his point here is spot on — NRA is still working in our best interest.

We hunters are OFTEN our own worst enemies. We are quick to bite the hand that feeds us at times. The NRA is the reason we maintain our gun liberties. I for one refuse to abandon and bad mouth them in public (Reagan’s 11th Commandment).

Don’t get me wrong though…we do need to fix them from within.

But if you don’t fix your own house, someone else will fix it for you.

Not to your liking!

WLP should have gone years ago.

The way the board works seems to be a big obstacle!

The size of the board alone is a massive problem. Their functioning is an entirely different story .

The board’s current set up and composition is largely through the efforts of WLP.

That in itself is a part of the difficulty.

I see WLP has been retained in his position............

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:
I see WLP has been retained in his position............

What did you see, and where?? INTERESTING!!

I heard that Charles Cotten was elected President??

All the other sheep must have lined up and>>>>>

????

https://www.thetrace.org/newsl...aware-kennywood-nra/



NRA loses civil case to hunting company that filmed Wayne LaPierre’s elephant hunt. Last week, a Fairfax County, Virginia, jury ruled in favor of Under Wild Skies, a company behind a TV show of the same name that featured National Rifle Association brass bagging game around the globe, and awarded it $550,000, finding that the NRA had breached its contract when it stopped making scheduled payments to the company. Context: In 2021, The Trace published unaired “Under Wild Skies” footage, which was referenced in the case, showing NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre repeatedly shooting and failing to kill an elephant in Botswana.

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
https://www.thetrace.org/newsl...aware-kennywood-nra/



NRA loses civil case to hunting company that filmed Wayne LaPierre’s elephant hunt. Last week, a Fairfax County, Virginia, jury ruled in favor of Under Wild Skies, a company behind a TV show of the same name that featured National Rifle Association brass bagging game around the globe, and awarded it $550,000, finding that the NRA had breached its contract when it stopped making scheduled payments to the company. Context: In 2021, The Trace published unaired “Under Wild Skies” footage, which was referenced in the case, showing NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre repeatedly shooting and failing to kill an elephant in Botswana.

Interesting.

The NRA is in a bad place. However, they put themselves in that position.

The NRA is largely in the business of PR. Its all about the image of hunters and the shooting sports. Their lack of self awareness on subjects like this is astounding.

We, the rank and file hunter/shooting sports enthusiast really have no advocacy group left.

In complete honesty, how many of you tell the numerous NRA fund raising callers "no thanks"

If those with a fiduciary duty to us can't be trusted, why would we/I donate?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
https://www.thetrace.org/newsl...aware-kennywood-nra/



NRA loses civil case to hunting company that filmed Wayne LaPierre’s elephant hunt. Last week, a Fairfax County, Virginia, jury ruled in favor of Under Wild Skies, a company behind a TV show of the same name that featured National Rifle Association brass bagging game around the globe, and awarded it $550,000, finding that the NRA had breached its contract when it stopped making scheduled payments to the company. Context: In 2021, The Trace published unaired “Under Wild Skies” footage, which was referenced in the case, showing NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre repeatedly shooting and failing to kill an elephant in Botswana.

Interesting.

The NRA is in a bad place. However, they put themselves in that position.

The NRA is largely in the business of PR. Its all about the image of hunters and the shooting sports. Their lack of self awareness on subjects like this is astounding.

We, the rank and file hunter/shooting sports enthusiast really have no advocacy group left.

In complete honesty, how many of you tell the numerous NRA fund raising callers "no thanks"

If those with a fiduciary duty to us can't be trusted, why would we/I donate?

Well said. I will not donate to the NRA until LaPierre is gone.

quote:

Originally posted by drongo:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
https://www.thetrace.org/newsl...aware-kennywood-nra/



NRA loses civil case to hunting company that filmed Wayne LaPierre’s elephant hunt. Last week, a Fairfax County, Virginia, jury ruled in favor of Under Wild Skies, a company behind a TV show of the same name that featured National Rifle Association brass bagging game around the globe, and awarded it $550,000, finding that the NRA had breached its contract when it stopped making scheduled payments to the company. Context: In 2021, The Trace published unaired “Under Wild Skies” footage, which was referenced in the case, showing NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre repeatedly shooting and failing to kill an elephant in Botswana.

Interesting.

The NRA is in a bad place. However, they put themselves in that position.

The NRA is largely in the business of PR. Its all about the image of hunters and the shooting sports. Their lack of self awareness on subjects like this is astounding.

We, the rank and file hunter/shooting sports enthusiast really have no advocacy group left.

In complete honesty, how many of you tell the numerous NRA fund raising callers "no thanks"

If those with a fiduciary duty to us can't be trusted, why would we/I donate?

Well said. I will not donate to the NRA until LaPierre is gone.

This.

I've told the NRA callers the same thing for a couple of years now. "No more donations from me until Wayne is gone".

I stopped donating to the WP's piggy bank several years ago.

That's a Kings Ransome for a 30 minute UWS Show!!

Well, I wish them luck in getting blood from a rock!!

WHAT'S NEXT??....and we need a STRONG NRA in this election cycle!!

Never understood why any of these organizations needed a show on TV. While I like some of them, I am not sure of the benefit to the organization.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Never understood why any of these organizations needed a show on TV. While I like some of them, I am not sure of the benefit to the organization.

It's super disappointing. Both the NRA and SCI have taken well deserved shots at their executive committees.

The mission of both organizations and the membership at large of both want to and try to do good things for Hunting, Conservation and the overall Shooting sports community. Our gun rights really have no legitimate and responsible representation. SMH

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Never understood why any of these organizations needed a show on TV. While I like some of them, I am not sure of the benefit to the organization.

It's super disappointing. Both the NRA and SCI have taken well deserved shots at their executive committees.

The mission of both organizations and the membership at large of both want to and try to do good things for Hunting, Conservation and the overall Shooting sports community. Our gun rights really have no legitimate and responsible representation. SMH

Both the NRA and SCI are being run by idiots, if the past is any example.

SCI has had a history of "improvements are coming".

Have not seen much yet.

I am only an NRA member to support the cause, but I can't stand Wayne LaPierre

Same for SCI because of the "Awards" which make me sick. The richest members can afford the hunts required, but the average member cannot

Not a good look

quote:

Originally posted by James Woodward:
I am only an NRA member to support the cause, but I can't stand Wayne LaPierre

Same for SCI because of the "Awards" which make me sick. The richest members can afford the hunts required, but the average member cannot

Not a good look

The only way for either one of these organizations to effect change, is for them to hit rock bottom as it were.

If the rank and file keeps funding their failures, we can only expect more of the same.

Empowering their incompetent greed is insanity.

I've worked far to hard for my money to throw it into a black hole of stupidity.

I did 11 years on the BOD of an SCI chapter. I saw first hand the elitism and favoritism shown to and by the executive committee. It's nothing more than a rich boys club, of those at the top. Problem is, it's funded by the working man.

THIS^^^^^^

I just sent a long email to Tom Cotton, President of NRA. My theme was WE NEED CHANGE AT NRA, or the NY AG will indict WLP and assign an Administrator, much like a Referee in Bankruptcy. So far no response. I was shocked that the Offices, Board and Elections committee had recruited Col. West to take WLP position, they didn't elect him! Big MISTAKE!!

I stopped short of suggesting that if BIG CHANGE isn't initiated internally, it is time that a strong group of members will have to initiate a big DIRECTORS AND OFFICERS liability suit for dereliction of duty and spending $$Hundreds of Millions of NRA funds intended for Gun Rights on frivolous defense of WLP and other derelict officers.

In Corporate America, with charges like these, all charged would be removed from their positions, and they would be paying their own defense costs. I saw this in action in my Fortune 100 corporate career. As a Controller, I also experienced being the target by IRS and others, where I held my position, fought the battle, had outside counsel provided by the Corporation, and won all battles!! NOT FUN!!

NRA NEEDS CHANGE NOW!!

Steve

I too served on the boards of 3 different SCI Chapters, and was President of one for 3 terms in the 80s where there was severe turmoil in the ranks and in leadership. This was not fun, it is selfish and destructive, and that's when Dallas and Houston peeled off as well.

Nevertheless, as international hunters need strong representation, and the more, the better!! Dues don't pay the bills!! The Awards and Record book are fund raising tools, just as the auctions are!! They are more effective than asking for money all the time like NRA!!

It seems to me that there is a whole bunch of people who like to watch competition and admire winners!! Think football, baseball, basketball... I can't own a team, but we all go to games!! Think NASCAR, and Reno Sir Races, we are all drivers and many pilots and we drive and fly stuff... but we don't compete, but we sure go watch!! This is all the rich guys and their sponsors showing their stuff... and people pay to enjoy!!

How is SCI and hunting any different?? Then there is The Weatherby Awards, Boone and Crockett...on and on!! I am not jealous...but envious!!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by James Woodward:
I am only an NRA member to support the cause, but I can't stand Wayne LaPierre

Same for SCI because of the "Awards" which make me sick. The richest members can afford the hunts required, but the average member cannot

Not a good look

The only way for either one of these organizations to effect change, is for them to hit rock bottom as it were.

If the rank and file keeps funding their failures, we can only expect more of the same.

Empowering their incompetent greed is insanity.

I've worked far to hard for my money to throw it into a black hole of stupidity.

I did 11 years on the BOD of an SCI chapter. I saw first hand the elitism and favoritism shown to and by the executive committee. It's nothing more than a rich boys club, of those at the top. Problem is, it's funded by the working man.

Steve, EXACTLY!! A Club for the "cool" rich kids. It's SO OFF-PUTTING. I always hated those snobby Country Club types, and I do everything possible to avoid them and their phony conversations, and stupid banter.

I say the above, and I am far from being poor....so imagine what the average deer hunter thinks of these brats.

I can't stand them

Christ... it's making me sick... Utterly stupid the whole thing...

Morten

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Steve

I too served on the boards of 3 different SCI Chapters, and was President of one for 3 terms in the 80s where there was severe turmoil in the ranks and in leadership. This was not fun, it is selfish and destructive, and that's when Dallas and Houston peeled off as well.

Nevertheless, as international hunters need strong representation, and the more, the better!! Dues don't pay the bills!! The Awards and Record book are fund raising tools, just as the auctions are!! They are more effective than asking for money all the time like NRA!!

It seems to me that there is a whole bunch of people who like to watch competition and admire winners!! Think football, baseball, basketball... I can't own a team, but we all go to games!! Think NASCAR, and Reno Sir Races, we are all drivers and many pilots and we drive and fly stuff... but we don't compete, but we sure go watch!! This is all the rich guys and their sponsors showing their stuff... and people pay to enjoy!!

How is SCI and hunting any different?? Then there is The Weatherby Awards, Boone and Crockett...on and on!! I am not jealous...but envious!!

The answer appears to be to change the awards particularly the scoring system as was being discussed for Buffalo back in the 2000s that better services conservation.

Seems we can tie this funding tools to outfitters who disclose how much of each dollar generated from a trophy fee/ price of hint goes from company, staff, community, habitat prevention/anti poaching. Thus, celebrating those outfitters who demonstrate true economic positive impact to the work. If you want animals from your area/operation to be submitted one must show how the money from sport hunting in that area generates tangible, positive em affects for wildlife for example 10k of this Elephant bought these wells that supply this water.

Maybe a minimum score, but no ranking other than date taken and no special prizes. Thus, the SCI book becomes less about where an animal places and more a scientific recording of the species with the ability to submit things like weight and height measurements not just the trophy score.

I understand, I am insane.

That is a BRILLIANT IDEA.... kinda like the Rigby OLD DAGGA BOY contest?? That said, how many outfitters could/would participate in this kind of presentation?? And, then how would SCI make money for Protecting our Hunting Rights around the World??....
We've gotta do something to toot our own horns infront of the Anti's... they are gaining ground on our territory... even right at home with more trophy import restrictions...

CHEERZ,

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
That is a BRILLIANT IDEA.... kinda like the Rigby OLD DAGGA BOY contest?? That said, how many outfitters could/would participate in this kind of presentation?? And, then how would SCI make money for Protecting our Hunting Rights around the World??....
We've gotta do something to toot our own horns infront of the Anti's... they are gaining ground on our territory... even right at home with more trophy import restrictions...

CHEERZ,

Old Dagga Boy contest? Bit like predictive text.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
That is a BRILLIANT IDEA.... kinda like the Rigby OLD DAGGA BOY contest?? That said, how many outfitters could/would participate in this kind of presentation?? And, then how would SCI make money for Protecting our Hunting Rights around the World??....
We've gotta do something to toot our own horns infront of the Anti's... they are gaining ground on our territory... even right at home with more trophy import restrictions...

CHEERZ,

Things I would do to make it better or work to what I stated above as the goal are;

Rework all scoring to put as much emphasis on age as possible;

Maybe remove the hunter’s name and just report the animal;

If we have to keep names with the animal (The fact that folks have to have this self promotion does bother me), then the only award is the animals in the book which you pay to submit;

I do not know to the top of my head how to monetize this, but we need outfitter award for the Outfitter that is most transparent or demonstrates the funds from hunting back to habitat, community, anti poaching, shoeing the true dollar for dollar accounting for the value the animal. Then promote to the moon those outfitters and the math they proved. We need hard numbers and not just talking points. You could break down those areas and assign a numerical figure to those areas and add yo get the winner. You could do two awards. One fir the most money and one for the highest percentage that goes to those categories.

Thst is the best I can do 470.

It is not practical for every outfitter to age animal taken on the tooth to get age. However, it may cause more to do so if we set an age 4 year old for deer, 8/9/10 whatever we can agree on for Buffalo etc, 15 years for bear (for example), then rank these animals based on age which the hunter pays to enter snd at the convention give awards for the oldest of each category submitted (that would come with a fee.

I would suggest you share this concept with Laird Hamberlain, CEO SCI and the present appointed Chairman of the Records Book Committee. Seems like a great concept, I agree on difficulty of monetizing it?? I wonder if most outfitters are prepared and capable of accomplishing this relationship?? This might be a difficult process, however if mastered, it sure would be valuable in fighting the ANTI's when they would have to fight the FACTS THAT HUNTERS PAY FOR CONSERVATION AND COMMUNITY PROJECTS!! I think this deserves some additional pursuit!!