Reminds me of a lot of threads on AR, folks are long on chatter and short on action:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Saeed, there are not "many" people here only a miniscule few of the world wide hunters.

My guess is the population on AR is a statistically significant sample, and therefore an accurate depiction of the feeling among all hunters.

In all sincerity I think you are sadly mistaken. From a statistical perspective, not only is the AR data set small (particularly in terms of those that opine on these issues) but the data set is skewed. Sort of like running a political poll that relies solely on the opinions of active political bloggers. You cannot extrapolate those results. At the next SCI convention, stand at the door and ask everyone entering whether they have heard of AR or spent more than 30 minutes on AR in the last twelve months. I would be surprised if you break single digits.

Certainly if you poll SCI members, I would agree. But I stand by my statement (and my five patents using statistical techniques) that AR is probably a representative sample of the general feelings of hunters - on any issue. Put it this way: there is no outpouring of love for SCI on AR or any other website that I can find. DSC and the NRA certainly seem to have more "cyber love."

Saeed, I have only me Mr Craig Kauffman one time when he was a volunteer regional rep for Western Pa. He was a young man in the banking industry. He went to public school in Pa and a state college. He worked his way up thru the ranks. I don't think he is in the financial realm you would think. He came from humble beginnings unlike some posting here.

Whoever he is, if he is running SCI he is doing a very poor job of it!

Saeed, I am sure your could do better with all your hands on experience.

Darn sure could not do any worse!

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
All,

SCI Outdoors is dead on arrival. The majority of the EC has no interest in this venture. It was some pretty bad PR, but that's about all it amounted to.

Brett

A sincerely worded letter of apology to their members and exhibitors would be in order and a promise to not do that again. This ranks up there with "New Coke" for PR train wrecks.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I guess we do have something in common my opinion of AR is the same as your opinion of SCI, nothing more or nothing less.

Bloody hell Ed,

With my attitude towards SCI, if they had a forum, I can assure you, you would not see ME there

Really! If you hold AR and it's posters in such contempt why in hell would you post here? You're a frigging hypocrite, and that makes you the perfect SCI whore.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Saeed, I have only me Mr Craig Kauffman one time when he was a volunteer regional rep for Western Pa. He was a young man in the banking industry. He went to public school in Pa and a state college. He worked his way up thru the ranks. I don't think he is in the financial realm you would think. He came from humble beginnings unlike some posting here.

What the hell are you trying to say?

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Darn sure could not do any worse!

The sad fact is SCI has had a long history of screwing things up.

It seems all the wrong people gravitate to the top of that organization!

What is that saying of certain things tend to float to the top of the water?

Here is a word to the wise from one of the significant negotiators to KILL SCI Outdoors has to say today-

"I would love to believe SCi Outdoors is completely dead, but I have word this morning there might be a move afoot to bring this up again next year and try and sneak it through. You along with every one you know that belongs to SCI need to send letters or emails to each EC member, Craig Kaufman and Phil Delone what you think about the idea. "

So keep your letters and comments going to Pres, EC and CEO Phil Delone. Larry Shores posted EC e-mail addresses, here is Phil Delone,CEO- Phil@safariclub.org

Better yet, make sure that every Chapter President is made aware of your dissatisfaction, each one of them is on the Board of Directors. Frankly, I would include Larry Shores letter/AR Post to each Chapter Pres, if Larry is good with that!! They need to know what "the World" is thinking about SCI vs living with blinders!!

This last go was buried in a 100 page Budget Doc, just like Congress does by attaching a controversial bill to one that is going to get passed and signed, typically a funding bill!!

Keep your eyes open....this AIN'T OVER YET!!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Saeed, I have only me Mr Craig Kauffman one time when he was a volunteer regional rep for Western Pa. He was a young man in the banking industry. He went to public school in Pa and a state college. He worked his way up thru the ranks. I don't think he is in the financial realm you would think. He came from humble beginnings unlike some posting here.

I deleted your PM as it did not warrant a reply.

470:

I hope you are wrong. It would not surprise me at all if you weren't.

Trust me, the EC is being bombarded. I am quite confident that they are hearing things that are no doubt shocking to them.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
470:

I hope you are wrong. It would not surprise me at all if you weren't.

Trust me, the EC is being bombarded. I am quite confident that they are hearing things that are no doubt shocking to them.

About time THEY were at the receiving end of some shocking things.

As I have been saying all along, the WHOLE, SILLY culture that has permeated the top of SCI for years now need to change.

This might be the time for all of us to exert enough pressure until they do.

There's a few things in life that puzzle me and one of the biggest puzzles is why the hell do the pro SCI guys always react like a scalded cat whenever the organisation is criticised?

Most, if not all react by hurling irrelevant & usually inaccurate personal insults & innuendo etc every time the subject comes up.

C'mon guys, can't you all just debate politely instead of lowering yourself in such ways?

If I was Saeed, I'd be waving the banning stick at some of you guys.

Gayne,

What is DSC doing on the importation ban? Thanks.

Thanks. I saw the note in Game Trails but it really does not articulate what DSC is actually doing to lift the ban, engage its members to intervene, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gayne,

What is DSC doing on the importation ban? Thanks.

And what is DSC doing with regards to allowing this thief to participate in the DSC convention, and buying advertising in your DSC magazine?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/9951024791

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gayne,

What is DSC doing on the importation ban? Thanks.

And what is DSC doing with regards to allowing this thief to participate in the DSC convention, and buying advertising in your DSC magazine?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/9951024791

Great question.

Not sure why Gayne decided to delete his posts. Would be nice to use the Game Trails vehicle to let folks know what DSC is doing on the importation ban, seek the engagement of members, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gayne,

What is DSC doing on the importation ban? Thanks.

And what is DSC doing with regards to allowing this thief to participate in the DSC convention, and buying advertising in your DSC magazine?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/9951024791

Great question.

Mike: As discussed in PM's, DSC is still working on the elephant ban.

JGRaider: I checked and there have been no ethics complaints against this outfitter submitted to DSC. If you or any other hunter feel like they were cheated by this outfitter and is a member of DSC, please feel free to come forward and file an ethics complaint. Having said that, there will be no donation from this outfitter at our next convention.

Karl

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gayne,

What is DSC doing on the importation ban? Thanks.

And what is DSC doing with regards to allowing this thief to participate in the DSC convention, and buying advertising in your DSC magazine?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/9951024791

Great question.

Mike: As discussed in PM's, DSC is still working on the elephant ban.

JGRaider: I checked and there have been no ethics complaints against this outfitter submitted to DSC. If you or any other hunter feel like they were cheated by this outfitter and is a member of DSC, please feel free to come forward and file an ethics complaint. Having said that, there will be no donation from this outfitter at our next convention.

Karl

Karl:

Have you seen the articles about this guy in the Hunting Report? They are eye opening.

Karl, I know (or more accurately, feel certain or sincerely hope) that DSC is working on the issue but the DSC members do not have any insights into what has been done or is being done, what DSC is focused on, why DSC is approaching the issue in the manner it is, whether DSC is coordinating with SCI or not, how the members can assist in the DSC's efforts, etc. We can see what SCI is doing and has done, e.g., the lobby day activities, the Congressional letter, the litigation, facilitating the dialogue and data collection process with groups on the ground in Africa, and the like. That was the point I was trying to make to Gayne before he pulled his posts. Not trying to be critical, just trying to understand.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
All,

SCI Outdoors is dead on arrival. The majority of the EC has no interest in this venture. It was some pretty bad PR, but that's about all it amounted to.

Brett

A sincerely worded letter of apology to their members and exhibitors would be in order and a promise to not do that again. This ranks up there with "New Coke" for PR train wrecks.

Agreed on the PR train wreck. SCI Outdoors is in fact no more, but the official death certificate can't be filled out until the August board meeting since it was voted on and approved by the board.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Gayne,

What is DSC doing on the importation ban? Thanks.

And what is DSC doing with regards to allowing this thief to participate in the DSC convention, and buying advertising in your DSC magazine?

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/9951024791

Great question.

Mike: As discussed in PM's, DSC is still working on the elephant ban.

JGRaider: I checked and there have been no ethics complaints against this outfitter submitted to DSC. If you or any other hunter feel like they were cheated by this outfitter and is a member of DSC, please feel free to come forward and file an ethics complaint. Having said that, there will be no donation from this outfitter at our next convention.

Karl

Karl:

Have you seen the articles about this guy in the Hunting Report? They are eye opening.

If there are negative reports on this character on the Hunting Report, it might be a good idea for DSC to distance themselves from him.

Not accepting donations from him is great, but allowing him to exhibit and expose others to him is not so great.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Fujo - In Brett's defense, many of the 147 voters were in fact duped to a degree into voting for this debacle! It was NOT discussed at the May 10 meeting, but it was buried in the 110 page budget proposal. So, unless you sat there and read all 110 pages thoroughly - before voting, its very possible one didn't actually know about it. That was the intention of those who came up with this genius idea!!!!!!

Reminds me of another situation in the not too distant past.."Let's pass it and see what's in it"

I've been out of touch 2 weeks . Seems I missed all the fun.

Let me REPEAT- Good input has it that the folks behind SCI OUTDOORS will make another run at this in due time!!

DON'T DORP YOUR GUARD!! KEEP WATCHING, IT WILL SHOW UP SOMEWHERE, IN ANOTHER SURPRISE, JUST LIKE RICH IS STATING!!

Washington Politics in SCI!!

It would be really interesting to know how many folks from AR actually took the time to write the EC to complain about SCI Outdoors. Excluding the outfitters and booking agents that have a vested financial interest in the issue, I would venture a guess that less than twenty-five folks took the time to send a note. I would also venture a guess that some of SCI's most vociferous critics were not in the twenty-five. Would love to be proven wrong but I sincerely doubt it. Leadership is practiced not so much in words as in actions; unfortunately, some want to lead from behind.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Let me REPEAT- Good input has it that the folks behind SCI OUTDOORS will make another run at this in due time!!

DON'T DORP YOUR GUARD!! KEEP WATCHING, IT WILL SHOW UP SOMEWHERE, IN ANOTHER SURPRISE, JUST LIKE RICH IS STATING!!

Washington Politics in SCI!!

ANY responsible management would have given those idiots who came up with this a kick up the rear end out of the door!

Of course, we are not going to hold our breath for anyone from the EC to do anything right!

They are digging a very deep hole for themselves, they might not be able to extricate themselves out of.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
It would be really interesting to know how many folks from AR actually took the time to write the EC to complain about SCI Outdoors.

I wonder how many who did write to the EC actually got some kind of response? I wrote to the email addresses supplied by Mr. Shores and I did not get a single reply.

I received no responses either.

I received two replies.

I rec'd zero responses. Very disappointing.

Mark

Not sure I would regard the lack of a response as disappointing. I am not surprised that each email did not receive an individual response. And in fact there was a response, the EC suspended the effort.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Not sure I would regard the lack of a response as disappointing. I am not surprised that each email did not receive an individual response. And in fact there was a response, the EC suspended the effort.

+1

Desired result achieved. Who cares if individual responses were provided.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Not sure I would regard the lack of a response as disappointing. I am not surprised that each email did not receive an individual response. And in fact there was a response, the EC suspended the effort.

+1

Desired result achieved. Who cares if individual responses were provided.

A blanket response expressing that they understand now why that was a bad idea would go a long way towards perhaps showing they at least marginally "got it".

The most worrying thing is that they ever researched the idea for (by their own admission) no less than 6 months and then made the decision it might be a goes and went ahead and announced it to the world.

Surely any bloody fool would instantly realise the idea was shafting both ordinary members and exhibitors!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Surely any bloody fool would instantly realise the idea was shafting both ordinary members and exhibitors!

I agree, it is amazing that apparently not one member of the EC acknowledged the serious conflict of interest and suggested that it should be shut down.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Surely any bloody fool would instantly realise the idea was shafting both ordinary members and exhibitors!

I agree, it is amazing that apparently not one member of the EC acknowledged the serious conflict of interest and suggested that it should be shut down.

+3....

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Surely any bloody fool would instantly realise the idea was shafting both ordinary members and exhibitors!

I agree, it is amazing that apparently not one member of the EC acknowledged the serious conflict of interest and suggested that it should be shut down.

I have lived long enough to learn that people hear what they want to hear. I think that is what happened here with the approval.