quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Guys
All this says, is it will be 'suspended indefinitely " NOT rescinded, ended,or abolished.
They could get our convention donations, money or hunts, then gear right back up."Our" stance will be to stand our ground until SCI comes out (in writing) that this bit of stupidity will never see the light of day. Taking the foot off the gas at this point is exactly what they want, and what we should not do. This is a bandaid, not am amputation boys!!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
An old saying the value of what you get is what it costs you. I am not the highly experienced venutrer that many here are, but in my limited ventures I have never met anyone that (unless they post here) has ever heard of AR and that includes many PH's and operators in Africa.

I am sure this site feeds your ego Saeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Saeed
But the SCI cheering section, to their credit, has been very silent on this issue thus far.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
DSC is an inclusive group who puts their substantial financial muscle where their mouth and mission statement is. Ask around on AR and you will get a good feel for how DSC is perceived when compared to SCI. A lot of proud and active members here on AR. Proud to say, anytime, anywhere that I am a LIFE MEMBER OF DSC.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
If we could start over from scratch

quote:

Originally posted by Gayne C. Young:
Since 1972, Dallas Safari Club has been the gathering point for hunters, conservationists and wildlife enthusiasts. An international organization, we offer members a world of options: Annual conventions and expositions, Annual sporting clay events, Monthly meetings and other member activities, World class publications and a Grant in aid program that contributes hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to programs and projects promoting our mission to conserve wildlife and wilderness lands, to educate youth and the general public and to promote and protect the rights and interests of hunters worldwide.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
I am admittedly not a very social person--the only "social "organization I ever belonged to is Army ROTC--

That being said, what would the advantages be to DSC to starting chapters?

I fail to see why you just can't work through the parent organization.

We don't need to go down the same road that has lead to the current situation with SCI.

another example for you---

Boone and Crockett Club
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Boone and Crockett Club is a hunter-conservationist organization founded in the United States in 1887 by Theodore Roosevelt. The club was named in honor of hunter-heroes of the day, Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, whom the club's founders viewed as pioneering men who hunted extensively while opening the frontier, but realized the consequences of overharvesting game. In addition to authoring a famous "fair chase" statement of hunter ethics,[1] the club worked for the expansion and protection of Yellowstone National Park and the establishment of American Conservation in general. The Club and its members were also responsible for the elimination of commercial market hunting, creation of the National Park and National Forest Services, National Wildlife Refuge system, wildlife reserves, and funding mechanisms for conservation, all under the umbrella of what is known today as the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.[2]

Key members of the club have included Theodore Roosevelt, George Bird Grinnell, Madison Grant, Charles Alexander Sheldon, William Tecumseh Sherman, Gifford Pinchot, Frederick Russell Burnham, E. D. Riekens, Jr., Charles Deering and Aldo Leopold.[3] Today the club is known largely for maintaining a (scoring) and data collection system and by which native North American big game animals may be objectively measured and tracked as a gauge of successful wildlife policies and management.

-----

How many think of B&C as a conservation organization now?

The NRA has done a decent job of remaining focused on the priority-yeah they have some problems, but nothing like SCI, and have truly remained a grass-roots organization, so why is that a bad model?

BTW read my sig line--life member of both DSC and the NRA-- in the interest of complete disclosure.

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:
Steve

Thank you for a reasoned response.

I am not advocating either option--I would like to see a reasonable discussion of the pros and cons for both options. We need to be as effective as possible.

we can show both success and failure with each plan--so lets all work together to come up with a position that the maximum number of people can support.

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
All,

SCI Outdoors is dead on arrival. The majority of the EC has no interest in this venture. It was some pretty bad PR, but that's about all it amounted to.

Brett

quote:

I am sure this site feeds your ego Saeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
All,

SCI Outdoors is dead on arrival. The majority of the EC has no interest in this venture. It was some pretty bad PR, but that's about all it amounted to.

Brett

Brett,
I applaud your loyalty and devotion to SCI. The problem isn't over just because they backed down. The problem is, the entire mindset.

It's like a politician returning donations after the fact from dirty donors.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
All,

SCI Outdoors is dead on arrival. The majority of the EC has no interest in this venture. It was some pretty bad PR, but that's about all it amounted to.

Brett

Brett,
I applaud your loyalty and devotion to SCI. The problem isn't over just because they backed down. The problem is, the entire mindset.

It's like a politician returning donations after the fact from dirty donors.

Steve

Steve,

Maybe, just maybe, the tide is starting to turn for SCI.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
All,

SCI Outdoors is dead on arrival. The majority of the EC has no interest in this venture. It was some pretty bad PR, but that's about all it amounted to.

Brett

Brett,
I applaud your loyalty and devotion to SCI. The problem isn't over just because they backed down. The problem is, the entire mindset.

It's like a politician returning donations after the fact from dirty donors.

Steve

Steve,

Maybe, just maybe, the tide is starting to turn for SCI.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:
All,

SCI Outdoors is dead on arrival. The majority of the EC has no interest in this venture. It was some pretty bad PR, but that's about all it amounted to.

Brett

Brett,
I applaud your loyalty and devotion to SCI. The problem isn't over just because they backed down. The problem is, the entire mindset.

It's like a politician returning donations after the fact from dirty donors.

Steve

Steve,

Maybe, just maybe, the tide is starting to turn for SCI.

Jeff

Perhaps you are right Jeff. When the EC receives e mails like the one below, someone has to start thinking.

Here it is:

SCI - EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEMBERS:

First off, I would like to thank you for your role in the decision to suspend SCI OUTDOORS! A decision that most definitely was the right move, and one that should immediately be made permanent as we all know.

However, I think this ill-conceived idea is but a fraction of what has grown to be a systemic problem with SCI - and those who wield the wand of power! Never did I, or all of those who are copied on this message (along with many more whom I have corresponded with) expect SCI to stoop to such a level. A level to which those in power thought was acceptable to not only compete directly with many of its long-standing members/exhibitors/donors - but to arrogantly dismiss the concerns of some of its highest ranking members, as we all saw in the response letters to the complaints made by Mr. Kern and Mrs. Wunderlich!!! Shocking to say the very least, to think outstanding, generous, members like this would be so nonchalantly dismissed???

Over the years its become extremely obvious to every single member/exhibitor/donor, that SCI has completely lost touch with those that have contributed tremendously to the organization's success! If ever there was an example of that, SCI OUTDOORS was it!! Reading the responses to Mr. Kern, Mrs. Wunderlich and others, was the glaring fact that SCI had taken the position that an acceptable loss of membership/support was "OK", as the responses stated clearly - it was known some would be unhappy with this new venture! Frankly, a slap in the face - done so with knowledge/intent! The arrogance and reckless dis-regard at the top of the food chain, has finally reached critical mass!

Is it any wonder why an organization like DSC, and several others have continued a long, steady growth of members/supporters, while SCI has failed in comparison to keep up with the same rate of growth? To those members that exhibit/support/donate to both organizations - the comparison regarding respect, support, care and concern - is NOT even a comparison!! SCI takes the position that "we need SCI", where as others such as DSC take the position that "they need their members, all of them". Understanding, listening to and caring for your customer - is the key to all business success. Somewhere along the line - that philosophy went out the window with SCI, while greed, money, good ole boy club mentality, and self-serving interests have become the norm.

Bottom line, its time for a complete changing of the guard at SCI!!!! First off, those responsible for initiating the worst idea in the history of "SCI/Conservation Organizations" (SCI Outdoors) should be immediately terminated!!! Secondly, a complete over-haul of customer relations should be implemented - including a complete questionnaire mailed to ALL members (exhibitor/donors too) asking for opinions as to what's needed to get SCI back on track, and a return to the world's leading Conservation Organization! Third, an additional questionnaire should be sent to every member/exhibitor asking for advice on needed changes to the National convention, as well as local events.

Its also high time SCI recognizes its intended role - which is to serve its members, and the worthwhile wildlife/conservation needs throughout the world. Instead, SCI has become a group of elites - who have come to believe the members are here to serve their personal interests, and from the look of SCI Outdoors, to finance those personal/self-serving interests as well??? Without the members, and exhibitor/members too - SCI is finished. What's the quote we've all heard? "Evil prevails when good men (and women) do nothing"! Well in this case, good people rallied together to fight back against tyranny - and they prevailed!!! Its a lesson that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Make no mistake, I don't wish to see SCI abolished - not in the least! I also believe a lot of good people are within, and at the top of SCI, but a few bad apples are spoiling the bunch. We ALL need a strong SCI, the same SCI that was once considered by ALL to be the world's leading advocate for hunters and wildlife. Sadly, that reputation has sunk like the Titanic in recent years. Now, its up to those steering the ship to bring it back to its once prominent position. I for one sincerely hope you all can do so, but unless across the board, drastic changes are implemented immediately - I am afraid the path ahead for SCI's future, is abysmal.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
In this case I see SCI like the criminal who is "deeply sorry", only because he got caught. The motive by SCI was clear as gin, they got called on the carpet by their members, then it was suspended. What a surprise.

Anyone who can't see that has blinders on.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
In this case I see SCI like the criminal who is "deeply sorry", only because he got caught.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
In this case I see SCI like the criminal who is "deeply sorry", only because he got caught. The motive by SCI was clear as gin, they got called on the carpet by their members, then it was suspended. What a surprise.

Anyone who can't see that has blinders on.

They never listened before.

But, I think the reduction in income from memberships has finally hit home.

And the news that all those silly circle are loosing interest is good news too.

Let us hope for the change we all want to see.

An organization that supports hunting.

In all its forms.

Rather than giving the lion's share to glorification of so called hunters one has to really stretch the point to even remotely call them such.

When so called hunting become a holly grail of beating so and so because he is in such and such a circle, it becomes totally irrelevant.

And leads to those so called "hunters" going as far as to break all sorts of laws just to have their names in a book!

We need an organization that supports HUNTERS.

Varmints hunters, rabbit hunters, deer hunters and elephant hunters.

having a record book is great, as long as we keep to HUNTING.

Not COLLECTING!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:


Anyone has a copy of SCI's answer to this?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
In this case I see SCI like the criminal who is "deeply sorry", only because he got caught. The motive by SCI was clear as gin, they got called on the carpet by their members, then it was suspended. What a surprise.

Anyone who can't see that has blinders on.

They never listened before.

But, I think the reduction in income from memberships has finally hit home.

And the news that all those silly circle are loosing interest is good news too.

Let us hope for the change we all want to see.

An organization that supports hunting.

In all its forms.

Rather than giving the lion's share to glorification of so called hunters one has to really stretch the point to even remotely call them such.

When so called hunting become a holly grail of beating so and so because he is in such and such a circle, it becomes totally irrelevant.

And leads to those so called "hunters" going as far as to break all sorts of laws just to have their names in a book!

We need an organization that supports HUNTERS.

Varmints hunters, rabbit hunters, deer hunters and elephant hunters.

having a record book is great, as long as we keep to HUNTING.

Not COLLECTING!

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
In this case I see SCI like the criminal who is "deeply sorry", only because he got caught. The motive by SCI was clear as gin, they got called on the carpet by their members, then it was suspended. What a surprise.

Anyone who can't see that has blinders on.

They never listened before.

But, I think the reduction in income from memberships has finally hit home.

And the news that all those silly circle are loosing interest is good news too.

Let us hope for the change we all want to see.

An organization that supports hunting.

In all its forms.

Rather than giving the lion's share to glorification of so called hunters one has to really stretch the point to even remotely call them such.

When so called hunting become a holly grail of beating so and so because he is in such and such a circle, it becomes totally irrelevant.

And leads to those so called "hunters" going as far as to break all sorts of laws just to have their names in a book!

We need an organization that supports HUNTERS.

Varmints hunters, rabbit hunters, deer hunters and elephant hunters.

having a record book is great, as long as we keep to HUNTING.

Not COLLECTING!

Saeed,

We all get your point. I don't disagree with most of them. What I would like to see is you becoming less disagreeable about SCI. They haven't sold me yet, but for the first time in a long time I am seeing signs of life and signs that they want to reach out to all hunters. I will continue to allow hope spring.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
In this case I see SCI like the criminal who is "deeply sorry", only because he got caught. The motive by SCI was clear as gin, they got called on the carpet by their members, then it was suspended. What a surprise.

Anyone who can't see that has blinders on.

They never listened before.

But, I think the reduction in income from memberships has finally hit home.

And the news that all those silly circle are loosing interest is good news too.

Let us hope for the change we all want to see.

An organization that supports hunting.

In all its forms.

Rather than giving the lion's share to glorification of so called hunters one has to really stretch the point to even remotely call them such.

When so called hunting become a holly grail of beating so and so because he is in such and such a circle, it becomes totally irrelevant.

And leads to those so called "hunters" going as far as to break all sorts of laws just to have their names in a book!

We need an organization that supports HUNTERS.

Varmints hunters, rabbit hunters, deer hunters and elephant hunters.

having a record book is great, as long as we keep to HUNTING.

Not COLLECTING!

I happen to agree with you but in the end that is just your opinion and mine. It does not make the opinions of others who happen to enjoy hunting and collecting any less relevant. In the end there needs to be room at the table for both groups and others. That is the problem that has largely gotten us to this point in the first place, hunters looking at issues in a divisive way. The bow hunters vs. the rifle hunters, the high fence hunters vs. the low fence hunters, bird hunters vs. big game hunters, food plot hunters vs. no baiting hunters, . . . , collectors vs. non-collectors. We need to stop focusing on what divides us and start focusing on what unites us.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores: