quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Bambazonke, so what you are saying because of his last name that makes him South African?? bloody hell care to explain that one to us all??it was clearly stated that he belong the ZPHGA?? OR DID I MISS READ??

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I don't know this guy but I have heard his name before. I think he has been around a while.

Hunting on seized land is bothersome. If the client was an American, that might well be a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Bambazonke, so what you are saying because of his last name that makes him South African?? bloody hell care to explain that one to us all??it was clearly stated that he belong the ZPHGA?? OR DID I MISS READ??

Why waste your breath on this group of perfect people. Your a SA ph so you must be a crook or not able to hunt like some of the guys from other countries.

I just find it funny how SA guys get taken apart on stuff and now something in zim happens and it is Sa guys who still get brought up. Some guys need to get a clue and get over themselves about stuff that happened in the past. This thread just shows how bad things happen in each country and by people from in that country.
I sure do which I could have been around all these perfect people growing up they sure could have stopped me from making the mistakes I have done in my life.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Bambazonke, so what you are saying because of his last name that makes him South African?? bloody hell care to explain that one to us all??it was clearly stated that he belong the ZPHGA?? OR DID I MISS READ??

Why waste your breath on this group of perfect people. Your a SA ph so you must be a crook or not able to hunt like some of the guys from other countries.

I just find it funny how SA guys get taken apart on stuff and now something in zim happens and it is Sa guys who still get brought up. Some guys need to get a clue and get over themselves about stuff that happened in the past. This thread just shows how bad things happen in each country and by people from in that country.
I sure do which I could have been around all these perfect people growing up they sure could have stopped me from making the mistakes I have done in my life.

If you wish to offer a differing opinion, it is best to arm your self with facts and not emotion. I am sorry but in the likelyhood of dodgy behaviour involving Zimbabwe hunting, the FACTS bear out that a majority of the time a South African operator is involved. I am sorry that hurts your feelings.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cal pappas:
In 2008 I hunted near Matetsi in a camp run by Theo. Gary Hopkins was the PH. Any more info needed? If so, just ask.
Cal[/QUOTE
Please tell us Cal.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Bambazonke, so what you are saying because of his last name that makes him South African?? bloody hell care to explain that one to us all??it was clearly stated that he belong the ZPHGA?? OR DID I MISS READ??

Why waste your breath on this group of perfect people. Your a SA ph so you must be a crook or not able to hunt like some of the guys from other countries.

I just find it funny how SA guys get taken apart on stuff and now something in zim happens and it is Sa guys who still get brought up. Some guys need to get a clue and get over themselves about stuff that happened in the past. This thread just shows how bad things happen in each country and by people from in that country.
I sure do which I could have been around all these perfect people growing up they sure could have stopped me from making the mistakes I have done in my life.

If you wish to offer a differing opinion, it is best to arm your self with facts and not emotion. I am sorry but in the likelyhood of dodgy behaviour involving Zimbabwe hunting, the FACTS bear out that a majority of the time a South African operator is involved. I am sorry that hurts your feelings.

Jeff

I would rather look at the facts about each hunt.Not just finger point because of past things that someone read about. funny how there is almost always a crook zim ph standing next to that SA ph but it is always the sa guys fault.
I would rather read and form a opinion on facts then the emotion of thinking badly or wrongly about someone no matter were they come from. So best to arm ones self with facts and stop acting like everyone else is perfect other the SA ph's.

quote:

Originally posted by tradewinds:
An update on the killing of Cecil, the famed Hwange lion.

The PH, Theo Bronkhurst, and the concession “owner”, one Honest Mpofu, were arrested and appeared in Hwange Magistrate court on the charge of illegally killing a lion. According to sources, there was no permit for lion on their hunt, and the concession area (Antionette) does not have any lion on quota. They have been remanded out of custody until August 6th. so Parks can continue their investigations.
Cecil was shot at night, no doubt after being blinded with a spotlight, undoubtedly over a bait which would have been dragged along the Parks boundary (supposedly for a leopard!) - indicative of the poor ethics and the poor quality hunter that we see too often these days. Undoubtedly, the PH intended to do a “quota transfer” where Cecil would have been recorded as shot in another area which had a quota and permit – the satellite collar blew the plan ( although Bronkhurst apparently tried to destroy the collar and all evidence of the dead Cecil). Had this lion not been collared, Bronkhurst probably would have got away with this crime, and I very much doubt this is the first dodgy episode in his hunting career.
Lets hope that corruption does not prevail and the full force of the law falls on both these characters – we do not need these types operating in Zimbabwe.
I will keep posts up when the trial commences in Hwange Magistrates court.


Bhejane Trust

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Bambazonke, so what you are saying because of his last name that makes him South African?? bloody hell care to explain that one to us all??it was clearly stated that he belong the ZPHGA?? OR DID I MISS READ??

Why waste your breath on this group of perfect people. Your a SA ph so you must be a crook or not able to hunt like some of the guys from other countries.

I just find it funny how SA guys get taken apart on stuff and now something in zim happens and it is Sa guys who still get brought up. Some guys need to get a clue and get over themselves about stuff that happened in the past. This thread just shows how bad things happen in each country and by people from in that country.
I sure do which I could have been around all these perfect people growing up they sure could have stopped me from making the mistakes I have done in my life.

If you wish to offer a differing opinion, it is best to arm your self with facts and not emotion. I am sorry but in the likelyhood of dodgy behaviour involving Zimbabwe hunting, the FACTS bear out that a majority of the time a South African operator is involved. I am sorry that hurts your feelings.

Jeff

I would rather look at the facts about each hunt.Not just finger point because of past things that someone read about. funny how there is almost always a crook zim ph standing next to that SA ph but it is always the sa guys fault.
I would rather read and form a opinion on facts then the emotion of thinking badly or wrongly about someone no matter were they come from. So best to arm ones self with facts and stop acting like everyone else is perfect other the SA ph's.

If you find AR such an unworthy site full of elitists why do you spend time here?

I am serious with that question.

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
http://www.theguardian.com/wor...lling-cecil-the-lion



Zimbabwean authorities hunt Spaniard accused of killing Cecil the lion

European allegedly paid €50k for chance to kill tourist attraction, who was found headless after being shot with a bow and arrow and then tracked for 40 hours

Stephen Burgen in Barcelona
Sunday 26 July 2015 07.01 EDT Last modified on Sunday 26 July 2015 09.01 EDT



Authorities in Zimbabwe are trying track down a Spaniard who allegedly paid park guides €50,000 (£35,000) for the chance to kill Cecil, one of Africa’s most famous lions, who was the star attraction at the Hwange national park. The creature was found skinned and headless on the outskirts of the park.

The 13-year-old lion was wearing a GPS collar as part of a research project carried out by Oxford University, making it possible to trace its last movements when it was tricked into leaving the park and shot with a bow and arrow. The hunters then tracked the dying animal for 40 hours before they killed it with a rifle.

Bait, in the form of a freshly killed animal, was used to tempt Cecil out of the park, a technique commonly used so that hunters can “legally” kill protected lions.

“Cecil’s death is a tragedy, not only because he was a symbol of Zimbabwe but because now we have to give up for dead his six cubs, as a new male won’t allow them to live so as to encourage Cecil’s three females to mate,” said Johnny Rodrigues, head of the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force. “The two people who accompanied the hunter have been arrested but we haven’t yet tracked down the hunter, who is Spanish.”

The Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association admitted that its members were involved and that the case was being investigated. It claims it was a private safari and therefore not illegal, but the government insists that the lion lived on the reserve and came under its protection.

The Oxford University study was looking into the impact of sports hunting on lions living in the safari area surrounding the national park. The research found that 34 of 62 tagged lions died during the study period. 24 were shot by sport hunters. Sport hunters in the safari areas surrounding the park killed 72% of tagged adult males from the study area.



Dr Andrew Loveridge, one of the principal researchers on the project, said that “hunting predators on the boundaries of national parks such as Hwange causes significant disturbance and knock-on effects” such as infanticide when new males enter the prides.

Police are seeking the lion’s remains among the country’s taxidermists. The Spanish conservation organisation Chelui4lions has written to Cites de España, the body that oversees the import of endangered species, asking it to prevent the importing of Cecil’s head as a trophy.

“From 2007 to 2012 Spain was the country that imported the most lion trophies from South Africa. During this period it imported 450 heads, compared to 100 in Germany. Europe needs to ban these lion hunting trophies altogether,” said Luis Muñoz, a Chelui4lions spokesman.

“What hunter, what sort of demented person, would want to kill a magnificent adult lion, known to and photographed by all the park’s visitors?” Muñoz said. “We’re ashamed of the fact that in Spain there are rich madmen who pay for the pleasure of killing wild animals such as lions.”

Bryan Orford, a professional wildlife guide who has worked in Hwange and filmed Cecil many times, told National Geographic that the lion was the park’s “biggest tourist attraction”. Orford calculates that with tourists from just one nearby lodge collectively paying €8,000 per day, Zimbabwe would have brought in more in just five days by having Cecil’s photograph taken rather than being shot by someone paying a one-off fee of €50,000.

The incident, which occurred earlier this month and has only just come to light, has caused outrage in Zimbabwe, coming only days after the ZCTF revealed that 23 elephant cubs had been separated from their herds in Hwange and exported to zoos in China and the United Arab Emirates. The Zimbabwean government insists the trade is legal and measures are in place to guarantee the animals’ wellbeing.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

If not then they were legal hunters and "one of us".

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:

If not then they were legal hunters and "one of us".

Sorry, maybe they are "one of you" but they are not "one of me". For someone to shoot a collared lion that is well known to the local outfitting and guiding community as a lion from a National Park, and not just any lion but a lion is that is iconic in Zimbabwe, that is not a hunter I aspire to be associated with. Apparently ZPHGA agrees:

"ZPHGA confirms the Professional Hunter in charge of the Safari is a member of ZPHGA. Therefore ZPHGA can make a ruling on the aspect of ethics and his membership at this time. ZPHGA in the follow up of the investigation concludes that in regarding the responsibility of his membership, the PH was is in violation of the ethics of ZPHGA. ZPHGA therefore with immediate effect, suspend his membership indefinitely."

I see no reason to or purpose served by standing with someone that acts irresponsibly. How can that possibly be good for the sport?

quote:

The hunters then tracked the dying animal for 40 hours before they killed it with a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

The hunters then tracked the dying animal for 40 hours before they killed it with a rifle.

For ZPHGA reacting in this manner means there is more to the story than what has so far been exposed.

Could it possibly mean that according to the association's code of ethics, known Park animals should be left alone, particularly those wearing a collar?
Most National Parks usually have a 1 mile buffer zone to reduce incidents of this nature and if it is true that this animal was purposely targeted and lured out of the park the public outcry is well warranted.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
when you lost 90%of your gun rights, it was because of people just like you who said why should we stand up for people who want semi auto or hand guns,etc,etc....i don't hunt with weapons like that we have to police ourselves..blah blah blah..next thing you know you can barely own a pellet gun. good luck with your strategy

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
We still have 99.9% of our gun rights. All we lost were handguns and automatic centre fire weapons which were of no use for sporting purposes in any case. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good swing in the dark.

[QUOTE]

Oh!!! Excuse me you "only lost hand guns and semi autos".
You still have "99%". Lmfao.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Help those of us out that are obviously confused, how exactly does this Spanish hunter shooting Cecil, a National Park lion, help to advance and preserve sport hunting? In your view, does it do sport hunting more good than harm? If it does more harm than good, than why shouldn't it be condemned?

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
What you don't seem to understand is that almost no-one in the UK held handguns or automatic weapons in the first place. There was, and is, no use for them whatsoever.

I have been shooting for 40 years and have more guns and more opportunity to use them now than when I started.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
We still have 99.9% of our gun rights. All we lost were handguns and automatic centre fire weapons which were of no use for sporting purposes in any case. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good swing in the dark.

[QUOTE]

Oh!!! Excuse me you "only lost hand guns and semi autos".
You still have "99%". Lmfao.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
What you don't seem to understand is that almost no-one in the UK held handguns or automatic weapons in the first place. There was, and is, no use for them whatsoever.

I have been shooting for 40 years and have more guns and more opportunity to use them now than when I started.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
We still have 99.9% of our gun rights. All we lost were handguns and automatic centre fire weapons which were of no use for sporting purposes in any case. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good swing in the dark.

[QUOTE]

Oh!!! Excuse me you "only lost hand guns and semi autos".
You still have "99%". Lmfao.

Pardon my off topic comment as this isn't related to shooting Cecil, but to the statement in bold, ARE YOU FNG KIDDING ME? Here in the states, we have this little thing we like to call: The Right to Self Defense!



Back to the lion story now!

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
What you don't seem to understand is that almost no-one in the UK held handguns or automatic weapons in the first place. There was, and is, no use for them whatsoever.

I have been shooting for 40 years and have more guns and more opportunity to use them now than when I started.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
We still have 99.9% of our gun rights. All we lost were handguns and automatic centre fire weapons which were of no use for sporting purposes in any case. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good swing in the dark.

[QUOTE]

Oh!!! Excuse me you "only lost hand guns and semi autos".
You still have "99%". Lmfao.

Pardon my off topic comment as this isn't related to shooting Cecil, but to the statement in bold, ARE YOU FNG KIDDING ME? Here in the states, we have this little thing we like to call: The Right to Self Defense!



Back to the lion story now!

They were never used for that purpose over here. So, no, I'm not kidding you.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do.

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do.

Eloquently put. Should be a guiding principle for every action and behavior, not just hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do.

Eloquently put. Should be a guiding principle for every action and behavior, not just hunting.

And like it or not everyone looks at that differently. Right or wrong that is a person right to have the ethics they believe in.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by bcap:

quote:

Originally posted by vvreddy:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do.

Eloquently put. Should be a guiding principle for every action and behavior, not just hunting.

And like it or not everyone looks at that differently. Right or wrong that is a person right to have the ethics they believe in.

Is that what you teach your children? That everyone looks at right and wrong differently? That so long as you believe that what you are doing is right it is okay?

[vvreddy, wish I could claim that statement but it was actually made by a former Supreme Court justice.]

quote:

Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
I have yet to see a news story on it or anyone talking about it. It's a non story in the world of mass shootings and terrorism.