Ladies and Gentlemen,

We have had the subject of tips come up quite frequently, and rightly so as there is no hard and fast rule that governs it.

I would like to get feedback from both outfitters, professional hunters, and clients of their experience with this subject.

I would prefer it if you let me know by PM, as my intention is to compile a complete list and post it on our African Reference Forum for our members to refer to.

I would appreciate your response.

Saeed - why dont you just copy the survey that the Hunting Report did, way back when. Do an updated version.

Matt,

That is my intention, without attributing any details to anyone in particular.

I have received a few messages, many thanks for those who have sent an answer.

Please keep them coming.

Saeed,

I think that is a great idea!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Matt,

That is my intention, without attributing any details to anyone in particular.

I have received a few messages, many thanks for those who have sent an answer.

Please keep them coming.

Link to the 2004 tipping survey

http://www.huntingreport.com/h..._details.cfm?id=1260

Thanks to those who have already sent PMs, great information from both clients and those in the business.

Keep them coming.

PM sent

PM sent

Just as I suspected, I am getting information members might have hesitated on posting on an open forum.

I appreciate all the straight answers from everyone who has sent a PM.

The identity of source will not be published.

Keep them coming.

PM sent. I hope I did it correctly.
Cal

Thanks to all who have taken the time and sent me a PM on their thoughts on tips.

I am just trying to see what would the best form that I post the results.

But, I have a question for those who are in the safari business.

You are welcome to answer by PM if you prefer.

Many of the answers I got seems to suggest between $100-$150 per day as tip for the PH.

I have also heard that PHs get paid about that amount per day as a salary.

Would someone please enlighten us as the normal wages a PH gets for both PG and DG safaris?

Saeed,

I outfit and P.H. in both South Africa and Mozambique.

Fees currently looks like follow:

South Africa:
$100.00 per day includes P.H. and vehicle for Plains Game
$150.00 per day includes P.H. and vehicle for
Dangerous Game

Outfitter to cover all fuel cost.

Of course this amount differs with the age and experience of the P.H.

My P.H.'s expects about $200.00 per Plains Game Safari of 7 days.

Most P.H.s expects about $500-$700.00 on a D.G. Safari, depending of course what and where they are hunting.

In Mozambique the P.H.'s get $150-$200.00 per hunting day. Again depending on experience and age. This also includes own vehicle, outfitter to pay for fuel.

We have a standing GUIDLINE to our clients off $400.00 per 10 day visit to us in South Africa for all the staff.

As they bond with the guide and tracker, and depending on the success of the hunt and the quality of the trophies, I always advise hunters to tip the P.H. and tracker above and beyond the $400.00 guideline.

So the $400.00 is received and distributed along the pecking order from the lodge manager.
The PH and tracker is tipped separately from that to the client's own discretion.

As far as Mozambique goes, we follow the same principal, but the amount to be distributed is more as we have more staff there.

When discussing tips with clients or potential clients, I am always sensitive to use the words:" I advise the following, but it is up to your own discretion". Maybe diplomatic, but as I always remind my staff, it is a gratuity not a right.

My tipping depends on the service provided/given, that includes all staff (PH, tracker, cook, etc.)

In addition I always leave shoes and clothes for the trackers and camp staff. Usually go home with an empty suitcase.

Thank you very much gentlemen.

I have been asked in PMs, and I will post the question here for any feedback.

Why is it that the client is expected to pay the PH roughly his daily wage as tip?

Most clients seem to suggest that paying up to 10% of the daily rate is plenty enough.

Others have suggested up to 15% of the daily rate.

A few have suggested a 10% of the total safari cost.

The suggested tip to the PH, many believe, is much higher than anticipated, or expected.

The way I suggest to the clients is the following. I consider all my staff equal except PH And Cook, So what ever amount he gives I divide equally to the staff. I also make notes on all the final invoices from clients on what they tipped, how many days they hunted and animals shot, to give the next client A reference point if he needs one.

Most of the times A PH get between $400 and $800, depending on how many days and animals hunted Cook about $250 to $400 and staff between $65 and $100. I am based in South Africa so we do not have that many on staff as you would see in other African Countries. Tips is up to the client and is never A given my guys know that. However I never had A client not tip my guys at least something. This not A suggestion just they way I have been doing it over the last 11 years.

Clients thanks for being so generous!

I'd like to hear the expectations that PHs and outfitter have depending on where the hunter is coming from. I can't help but think that people from countries where tipping is expected are expected to pay more for their hunts when tips are included.

"I consider all my staff equal except PH And Cook, So what ever amount he gives I divide equally to the staff"

I think this practice is great.

Having said this, for an Outfitter to except a certain amount in a tip, such as a certain percentage is out of line. How is a client supposed to know? I have never seen an Outfitter give suggesting tipping amounts in a brochure or website. There needs to be more clarification (I would suggest fixed percentages or nothing).

I have a friend in RSA who is a PH. If memory serves me, His plains game daily salary is $120
a day.

I always ask the PH what is the normal rate for tips for the staff and trackers. I then modify that either up or down depending on how good the service was. If one of the staff is especially helpful, I will add some $$ directly to him on the side. Typically, my starting tip to the trackers is $200 for a 14 day DG hunt. It also can go up or down depending on how good a job they do. The game scout gets the same but if the scout takes an active participation in the tracking and animal recovery he will get a little more. If he just stands around twiddling his thumbs and looks bored he may get significantly less.

465H&H

What are the wages for trackers, cooks, maids, skinner ... Per day?
Zim, Namibia, SA ...

The trackers should rate in the PH/Cook category in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by dla69:
I'd like to hear the expectations that PHs and outfitter have depending on where the hunter is coming from. I can't help but think that people from countries where tipping is expected are expected to pay more for their hunts when tips are included.

And so they should, that helps out those that come from countries that don't normally tip.

Saeed, if you do not mind why do you not tell us what you personally tip when of safari.

I am interested in the outcome of this survey - becase I live in a country where tipping is not part of our culture.

quote:

Originally posted by spear:
Saeed, if you do not mind why do you not tell us what you personally tip when of safari.

He just buys Roy's next years quota, + 10%.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
I am interested in the outcome of this survey - becase I live in a country where tipping is not part of our culture.

I have worked here and have never gotten a dime, for a job well done.

I dought if any of the hunters ever got a tip for their work/job, either.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:

quote:

Originally posted by spear:
Saeed, if you do not mind why do you not tell us what you personally tip when of safari.

He just buys Roy's next years quota, + 10%.

Keith

My situation is different than others.

On some occasions when I hunted in both South Africa and Tanzania, I asked the PH for his recommendations and followed them..

When I hunt with either Roy or Alan Vincent - whom I have known for over 30 years, and consider ourselves family members, the question of "tips" does not come into the equation.

The same thing goes to payment for the safari cost.

There is no question of either side not meeting his obligations, and I pay the bill as soon as I get it. There is no formal agreement.

We have been hunting together since 1982, and we always look forward to the whole family coming to visit us in Dubai in the off season.

I have photos of Alan sitting on my first elephant when he was a little boy.

I have photos of my daughter Hessa driving Alan in her gold cart and him shooting iguanas in our backyard.

The funny part is, it does not matter how much we leave as tip, I always feel it was well worth it.

Not really an answer to the original question but still on topic I believe...

One of the biggest tips (financially) I was ever given was $2,500 that a client gave me on his second hunting trip with me. I refused to accept that tip for reasons known between the client and myself... This happened in 2009...

That same client not only turned into a repeat customer but also a very good friend who has visited us every year since then and whom we have also visited on our trips abroad...

Two years ago he connived with my wife and gave me a $2,500 rifle as birthday present. In addition; he has left multiple rounds of ammo, scopes, binos, and other hunting gear during his visits...

In two and a half weeks time we'll be hunting buffalo together again (not the pen-raised variety (I don't really do that contrary to popular belief)... I'm very much looking forward to this hunt in Greater Kruger!

But the biggest "tip" he ever could have given me was his friendship and acting as reference to other potential clients - and this he sure has done... multiple times!

I have several other clients who have "tipped" me the same way... Actually I really like this form of "tipping"!

Here's a slight curve. What about observers and/or children who may take 2 or 3 animals during your 14 day hunt? Tip per person or percentage of entire package?

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I always ask the PH what is the normal rate for tips for the staff and trackers. I then modify that either up or down depending on how good the service was. If one of the staff is especially helpful, I will add some $$ directly to him on the side. Typically, my starting tip to the trackers is $200 for a 14 day DG hunt. It also can go up or down depending on how good a job they do. The game scout gets the same but if the scout takes an active participation in the tracking and animal recovery he will get a little more. If he just stands around twiddling his thumbs and looks bored he may get significantly less.

465H&H

I pretty much follow 465H&H's program.

I prefer to tip each individual separately given the time, and adjust the PH's suggestion up or down individually if I believe warranted. I have had one or two occasions when I felt a need to go lower, typically I go a bit higher.

For the PH, I start at $100/day for a DG hunt and go up from there, I have gone as high as $200/day when the PH made things happen that significantly improved my hunt, like finding extra elephant or buff quota nearby or from another outfitter in the concession that I can buy. I try not to tip based on results, which can vary, but try to tip on effort and attitude. I have never felt the need to go lower and would be pretty disappointed if I did, likewise the trackers, if I felt I ought to go lower than recommended then something is wrong.

I tip the game scout about half the trackers if he is a good guy with a good attitude and helpful. Substantially more if he actively "joins the team" less if he sits around or has a poor attitude. He will get docked if he is late in the am.

Some make the argument that generous tipping raises the bar for the next guy. I am not concerned about the next guy's inclination or ability to tip. If the safari has gone the way I expect and better, I am going to reward those who made it happen in the manner I see fit and within my ability. I assume I will be back, and want those who made for such a great trip the last time to look forward to the next time.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by txlonghorn:
Here's a slight curve. What about observers and/or children who may take 2 or 3 animals during your 14 day hunt? Tip per person or percentage of entire package?

For whatever it might be worth, here is my take: I am the sponsor of the trip, any tipping will be done by me. The tips I am inclined to give are based on the whole experience. If an added animal here and there taken by a wife or child makes a significant difference, than the tips will be adjusted accordingly, if not, then it is just another aspect of the hunt.

JPK

Martin Pieters has a suggested tipping guide on his website. I bring a copy of that with me and sit down with the PH after the hunt and go over it and ask for his suggestions based on that as a "go by".


BTW, I am glad to see the other suggestions posted here. I do want to tip but find that part of the safari a bit worrisome.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:


BTW, I am glad to see the other suggestions posted here. I do want to tip but find that part of the safari a bit worrisome.

+1

Mike

How do hunters from different countries tip?

Tipping is primarily based on US food service norms. I know for a fact that Europeans, Australians, Asians and consumers everywhere else don't tip the same as US for sit down food service.

Do non US hunters tip the same?

Mike

After reading all this, like Butch said, it's rather worrisome
These hunts cost lot if money and that pays for everyone's wages besides truck, fuel, food, taxes, profits etc. right?
At times the suggested amounts of tipping can be insult to us hunters as well
The problem with tipping is that it is expected and that is why we discuss it here and as far as tipping goes, it is right next to a bribery when it is expected.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
After reading all this, like Butch said, it's rather worrisome
These hunts cost lot if money and that pays for everyone's wages besides truck, fuel, food, taxes, profits etc. right?
At times the suggested amounts of tipping can be insult to us hunters as well
The problem with tipping is that it is expected and that is why we discuss it here and as far as tipping goes, it is right next to a bribery when it is expected.

You know, I don't see it the way you do. For example, for marlin or tuna charter boat fishing along most of the Mid Atlantic Coast the expectation is a 15-20% tip to the mate or mates jointly if more than one. The same hold true in other fishing destinations as diverse as Mexico or the Dominican Republic or Venezuela. Very often, the expectation is published either on the boat's web site or posted on the boat.

And as far as expectations, how about "requirement" like at the bottom of the menu where it reads "A 15% [or 20%] gratuity will be added to the check of parties of six or more," or something similar? Sets the expectation for smaller groups and there is NO choice for larger groups.

There are more American safari hunters than all other nationalities combined, or so I have been told by PH's and operators, so our customs and practices dominate.

I like the custom and practice of tipping, and I use it. If the service I receive is above and beyond then the tip will reflect that. If it is substandard, it will reflect that as well. Reward and punishment are the linch pins of capitalism.

JPK

quote:

How do hunters from different countries tip?

Tipping is primarily based on US food service norms. I know for a fact that Europeans, Australians, Asians and consumers everywhere else don't tip the same as US for sit down food service.

Do non US hunters tip the same?

I can't speak for all non-US hunters, but my German friends do not tip as a rule. The Austrians and Swiss may tip but rarely, as for the others, it really comes own to a personal preference and how much drink one has consumed.

If one were to leave a small amount for someone, it would be far less than the amounts mentioned here. I think tipping is a great incentive, but it is not universally accepted. I know I have rarely received tips on guided hunts in Germany, though I have been tipped for providing tracking dog services to hunters.

quote:

Some make the argument that generous tipping raises the bar for the next guy. I am not concerned about the next guy's inclination or ability to tip. If the safari has gone the way I expect and better, I am going to reward those who made it happen in the manner I see fit and within my ability. I assume I will be back, and want those who made for such a great trip the last time to look forward to the next time.

Interesting comment, but I wonder just how many folks don't go on hunts regardless of the destination because of the tipping issue? Some folks are talking about tips, that will or has "Raised The Bar" to a point where a perspective hunter is looking at a couple of thousand dollars or so extra for a hunt.

A person has to wonder just a little at what point tipping or the amount of tips expected is or will become the deciding factor in booking a hunt.

At what point in time will the concept of showing appreciation for a job well done become a process of diminishing returns?

quote:

Originally posted by Macs B:

quote:

How do hunters from different countries tip?

Tipping is primarily based on US food service norms. I know for a fact that Europeans, Australians, Asians and consumers everywhere else don't tip the same as US for sit down food service.

Do non US hunters tip the same?

I can't speak for all non-US hunters, but my German friends do not tip as a rule. The Austrians and Swiss may tip but rarely, as for the others, it really comes own to a personal preference and how much drink one has consumed.

If one were to leave a small amount for someone, it would be far less than the amounts mentioned here. I think tipping is a great incentive, but it is not universally accepted. I know I have rarely received tips on guided hunts in Germany, though I have been tipped for providing tracking dog services to hunters.

My issue is I do not see two different rates - a tip or service charge included and tipping/no service charge daily hunting rate.

If non-us hunters don't tip as part of their culture/local business practice. I don't expect them to go on hunting in Africa and all of sudden start tipping cause US hunters tip.

I just hunted in a French colony and was provided a tipping schedule that no French man in his right mind would ever tip.

I am just wondering if we have taken an American practice of restaurant tipping where staff is paid less than the minimum wage on firm expectations of tip moved it to a $25-$100K hunt.

The other question is as we go on hunts where the daily rate approaches $1000 and above what is included in the daily rate. Is the outfitter not paying fair economic wages to staff. In the US restaurant model wait staff is not paid an fair economic wage (and I don't mean minium wage by that) but they choose to work there on expectation that majority of their income is received from tips.

I just find this whole tipping thing troublesome where I am supposed to tip everyone from camp gardener to the game ranger on government job. What does my daily rate cover ?

Mike

Tipping should be up to the individual as to amount. On the two trips to RSA I tipped the PH $100 per day for all services to be distributed by him as he saw necessary. I/we also brought gifts and lent a hand to retrieve animals, help the kitchen and wait staff, help with the skinning and etc. BTW, I like to help with the skinning and preparation of the animals due to the fact that it gives me additional info about their make up. This aids in shot placement. Not to get off topic. Tipping is for a satisfactory hunt, adventure and all around good trip. The PH/outfitter that we have hunted with on two trips never in any way suggested a tip or gratuity in any way. He was more than helpful and a great PH all around. I tipped him for all days we were accompanied by him, not just the hunt days. This has paid dividends in the long run as I/we consider him to be our friend and he has responded as such in kind. My .02 cents. MTG

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Macs B:

quote:

How do hunters from different countries tip?

Tipping is primarily based on US food service norms. I know for a fact that Europeans, Australians, Asians and consumers everywhere else don't tip the same as US for sit down food service.

Do non US hunters tip the same?

I can't speak for all non-US hunters, but my German friends do not tip as a rule. The Austrians and Swiss may tip but rarely, as for the others, it really comes own to a personal preference and how much drink one has consumed.

If one were to leave a small amount for someone, it would be far less than the amounts mentioned here. I think tipping is a great incentive, but it is not universally accepted. I know I have rarely received tips on guided hunts in Germany, though I have been tipped for providing tracking dog services to hunters.

My issue is I do not see two different rates - a tip or service charge included and tipping/no service charge daily hunting rate.

If non-us hunters don't tip as part of their culture/local business practice. I don't expect them to go on hunting in Africa and all of sudden start tipping cause US hunters tip.

I just hunted in a French colony and was provided a tipping schedule that no French man in his right mind would ever tip.

I am just wondering if we have taken an American practice of restaurant tipping where staff is paid less than the minimum wage on firm expectations of tip moved it to a $25-$100K hunt.

The other question is as we go on hunts where the daily rate approaches $1000 and above what is included in the daily rate. Is the outfitter not paying fair economic wages to staff. In the US restaurant model wait staff is not paid an fair economic wage (and I don't mean minium wage by that) but they choose to work there on expectation that majority of their income is received from tips.

I just find this whole tipping thing troublesome where I am supposed to tip everyone from camp gardener to the game ranger on government job. What does my daily rate cover ?

Mike

Everything else!

On income earned by PH's in Zim, I had a long and detailed conversation with a PH with whom I've hunted quite a bit. These numbers are circa 2007 or so.

His total income for the year averaged around $45k or the equivalent. During a good season he might be paid for 100 days of hunting a better one maybe 120 days. He was paid $150/day by one outfit and I think $200 by another for DG hunts. A DG hunt included not only those days actually spent pursuing DG but the whole length of the safari, even if the safari transferred to a non-DG location for more plentiful plains game opportunities.

The math reveals that through a pretty good season he might hunt 110 paid days at an average of about $175. That is about $20k.

He also made some money on the transfer charges charged hunters for transportation from Harare to whatever concession. And this was a welcome boost since he had to drive there with his truck and trackers in any event, usually at his own costs.

He was not paid for days spent preparing for a hunt, i.e. prepping his truck, picking up supplies heading to camp, etc., or for the day spent traveling to a hunt or from a hunt, though if the safari included a transfer from one area to another he was paid for that day - and the hunter was charged for the day as well, as if it were a hunting day.

He was not paid extra for the use of his truck and repairs and maintenance were at his own expense. Fuel used during the hunt was paid for by the operators. Fuel for the trip to the concession was at his expense, but the fuel for the trip back to Harare at the operators' expense.

about 40% of his income from hunting was derived from tips.

Out of his income, he had to pay his trackers, and to keep them he had to pay them year round. However, the lions share of the trackers' compensation came in the way of tips. I know that if a hunter did not tip the trackers after a hunt, he made up for it out of his own pocket, though not to the extent of the average tip they might have received.

During the season when not in camp, he provided food and lodging to his trackers, during the off season they went home until it was time to begin prepping for the next season.

He made some money during the off season doing odd jobs, like welding up bull bars for safari trucks, but not much because much of the work was short term, on demand and intermittent. He was generally not able to find steady work in the off season because eight month of the year he was hunting and he could not make a longer term commitment to an employer.

I could go into greater detail on his living arrangements but won't for fear of providing enough information for someone to perhaps guess his identity.

I'll note that a fellow could live decently well in Zim on $45k/yr, partly because of the very low cost of indigenous labor. This PH employed a full time gardener/security guard and a near full time house keeper/cook.

This PH said that his situation was similar to most of the DG PH's he was familiar with.

I'll leave to everyone individually to decide for themselves whether a full time DG PH (really 9+ months a year including prep time and post season repairs, etc.) is worth about $45k/yr in 2007 or 8 dollars, and whether tips ought to be just included in safari pricing.

JPK