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One of Us |
Besides 4457's, it seems that in April new requirements will go into force when you travel from the U.S. with firearms and ammunition. With less than 3 firearms or 1,000 rounds of ammunition, there is an export license exception, but you will now be required to file electronic export information. There is an online quizz that you can take to help you determine whether an export license or an exemption applies. See: https://www.ice.gov/exec/ice-gov/cpiquiz.htm And, here are some FAQ's that should shed more light on the topic: https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq | ||
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One of Us |
So last time I left the US, I didn't have any contact with Customs so how do you do this: Prior to departing the U.S., you MUST verbally declare the items to U.S. Customs and Border Protection and provide confirmation that the electronic export information was submitted into AESDirect. | |||
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One of Us |
That is the "Catch 22" that seems to be built into the new regulation. Make it very difficult, if not impossible, to comply. You will have to take your guns to CBP BEFORE you check them in. I have done film shoots all over the world and traveled with "carnets" ... like passports for the production equipment ... the equipment has to be inspected by Customs and the carnet stamped BEFORE it is checked in with the airline. Now, you will have to basically do the same thing when you travel with guns and ammo. | |||
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One of Us |
Assholes! Absolute assholes!!! Another bureaucratic black hole ran by more useless government employees... "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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Are you sure this is actually for hunters going abroad and not for actual exports of weapons? ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Administrator |
According to the following, it would appear it applies to everyone??!! Any time a person departs the United States by any means or method of transportation, and is traveling with firearms and/or ammunition in their possession, the person must comply with all applicable laws and regulations governing the lawful exportation of these controlled items. All persons who intend to travel from the United States to a foreign country with firearms and/or ammunition are reminded that both the permanent and temporary exportation of these items are subject to federal export licensing regulations. The export regulations for handguns, rifles, associated parts and components, and related ammunition are found in the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) administered by the Department of State’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC). The export regulations for sporting shotguns (barrel length of 18 inches or more), muzzle loading firearms, associated parts and components, and related ammunition are found in the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) administered by the Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS). Export regulations require that prior to traveling outside the United States with firearms and/or ammunition all departing persons must obtain a valid and appropriate DDTC or BIS export license or qualify for a valid DDTC license exemption under 22 C.F.R. 123.17 - 123.18 or a valid BIS license exception under 15 C.F.R. 740.14(e). Before exporting any firearms and/or ammunition with a valid DDTC or BIS export license or a qualifying license exemption, the traveler, or an agent acting on the traveler’s behalf, must file the Electronic Export Information (EEI) using the Automated Export System (AES) or the Internet-based system AESDirectwhich is publicly availableand free of charge. In addition to filing the EEI in AES or AESDirect prior to export, all firearms, ammunition and additional mandatory documentation (e.g., certifications, foreign import permits, proof of AES filing; such as the Internal Transaction Number) must be presented to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) authorities for visual inspection at the port of departure from the United States. Homeland Security Investigations (HSI) is the primary federal law enforcement agency responsible for investigating international smuggling operations and enforcing U.S. export control laws. Failure to comply with the federal regulations governing the temporary and permanent export of firearms and/or ammunition from the United States (including the proper filing of EEI) may result in the detention, seizure, and forfeiture of improperly declared firearms and ammunition and could further subject the traveler to arrest and criminal prosecution by HSI special agents for violation of federal export and/or arms smuggling laws. | |||
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Nice of them to do this a week before I leave. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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One of Us |
If Saeeds information is the official version, saying " Any time a person departs the United States...." would this apply to US citizens only...? Having read the statement I am concerned. I am hunting in Idaho this year, bringing my own rifle and ammo and am sure I am compliant with official requirements that allows this. But, when it's time to return to NZ, with same rifle and remaining ammo, will I have to adhere to these new rules even though I am not a US citizen...? I should look further into this I think. Where should I direct enquiries to obtain sensible answers...? Working through the Quiz Link above told me I need an Export License. BUT, info in the FAQ's Link refers to " Guidance for US Persons..." I might have answered my own questions... hopefully ? If anyone disagrees with my conclusions please let me know. Feel for you US hunters / travelers though. This is just unbelievable ! Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing. | |||
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One of Us |
The pleasure to hassel ratio is decreasing to the point is decreasing to the point it is becoming unattractive to travel out of the U.S.A. for hunting. Lets see, buy an airline ticket and pay extra if you wish to be comfortable and even that isn't that comfortable. Then spend 16 hours traveling over the big pond. Add to that fileing forms for their convinience and not much else. I'm glad I went when I did but probably won't go again. | |||
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One of Us |
More and more guys are going to end up borrowing or renting firearms at the other end, quite a few already do. I am going to look at this option myself when the level of big brother gets to be more than I want to put up with and I know before hand that the operator has decent equipment. I hate doing it but I won't quit hunting elsewhere when money permits as there is only one trip around the block. I already have clients asking about this, as they are considering it in the future. They get so fed up with paperwork and running into customs types who are increasingly anal retentive. Every time our governments, at departure or arrival points, institute another layer of bureaucratic bullshit a certain number of hunters drop out of the international hunting crowd. Slowly but surely they are getting exactly what they want. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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One of Us |
From the ICE FAQs: Q. I am going hunting in Africa and plan to take a rifle and rifle ammunition; do I need to obtain an export license? A. No, 22 C.F.R. § 123.17 allows U.S. persons to temporarily export up to three (3) firearms (rifles and/or handguns) and up to 1000 rounds of related ammunition without a license providing that they will be returned to the United States. However, the exporter is still required to make a declaration via the Automated Export System (AES), pursuant to 22 C.F.R. § 123.22(a) and submit the AES Internal Transaction Number (ITN) along with the firearms/ammunition to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) for visual inspection prior to departure from the U.S. NOTE: U.S. persons exporting firearms and ammunition from the United States using a valid license exemption are responsible for knowing and complying with any foreign laws requiring an import permit or advanced authorization prior to transporting or carrying firearms and ammunition into the foreign country. Attempting to bring firearms into a foreign country without prior authorization or permission from the appropriate foreign officials may result in arrest, criminal prosecution, seizure of personally owned firearms and ammunition, and/or denial of entry into the country. Mike | |||
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one of us |
Wonder if the Obamavitch regime is unhappy that their elephant ban isn't having the effect they wanted, i.e.., discouraging us from hunting and visiting countries they don't want us to visit. Now they will have an opportunity to make travel to those countries even more onerous. Big brother is getting BIGGER. Pancho LTC, USA, RET "Participating in a gun buy-back program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids." Clint Eastwood Give me Liberty or give me Corona. | |||
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One of Us |
Does the following controversial United Nations Arms Trade Treaty sound familiar? "The landmark Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), regulating the international trade in conventional arms - from small arms to battle tanks, combat aircraft and warships - entered into force on 24 December 2014." DSC Life Member HSC Life Member NRA Life Member SCI RMEF | |||
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One of Us |
I had the same thought. "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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One of Us |
http://www.africahunting.com/t...the-form-4457.21576/ The above is from the Campfire site. FYI. I have predicted for years we are the last generation to hunt internationally. The war is not lost yet, but more and more battles are being lost. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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One of Us |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ftg767: So last time I left the US, I didn't have any contact with Customs so how do you do this: I have went thru the trouble of getting 4475s for all my trips since 2009. I have never been asked buy any U.S. official to see any of them. The last 2 trips they never even physically looked at my rifle. This will probably be another useless step in the process. I have walked in the foot prints of the elephant, listened to lion roar and met the buffalo on his turf. I shall never be the same. | |||
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One of Us |
Just talked to "border Protection " in Boise, she said "that's new to me, I'll have to get back to you" | |||
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One of Us |
so what is the site that we have to go to to find the form to file electronically? cannot find it | |||
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One of Us |
OK. Here is where it gets interesting. You would think that if you are entitled to the exemption from an export license (and most of us probably would be) then it is a "simple" matter of making the electronic declaration via the government's Automated Export System (AES). Maybe just log on, provide a few details .... hit send .... and bingo-bango .... you get the needed ITN number. WRONG! It doesn't appear to work that way: First, it seems you have to actually establish an AES account by registering, ... to do that ... you have to take another little certification quiz, and then submit an EIN number (apparently not a social security number!) in order to establish the account that enables you to make the mandated declaration via the Automated Export System. See: http://aesdirect.census.gov/ If you don't have an EIN, then you have to apply for one with the IRS ... "Catch 22?" Second, assuming you have done all of that and received your precious ITN number, you are still required to present the ITN number and the firearms/ammo to CBP BEFORE you leave on your trip (and obviously before you check your guns/ammo with the airline). Another power-grab by the government .... | |||
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DSC Life Member HSC Life Member NRA Life Member SCI RMEF | |||
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One of Us |
Just attempted to register for AESDirect have a call into them as well now. | |||
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One of Us |
OK, so here is something SCI can work on for hunters | |||
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one of us |
Had a look at the AESDirect website to learn how to file the EEI form. Would appear that individuals cannot do so. You have to be a company, designate an Account Administrator who cannot file the EEI. For that, the Account Administrator must name a User Manager. Clearly this thing (I checked the date, by the way to be sure we were not at 1 April ) has not been totally thought through/set up. Time to go to a Congressman in the Sportsman's Caucus... Regards | |||
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One of Us |
I just sent a message to Senator Enzi from Wyoming, who is a member of the Sportsmen's Caucus. I encourage all the members here to reach out to their representatives, especially if they are members of the Sportsmen's Caucus. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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One of Us |
Unless there is a showing of tremendous outrage (like proposed AR15 ammo ban) my hunch is that we will probably be stuck with this during the remainder of Comrade Obongo's reign. I suspect (assuming it is possible) that specialist travel agencies (like Travel With Guns) will establish an account and assist in obtaining the necessary exemption number for their customers. We shall see ... | |||
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One of Us |
I checked the website there a bit and it looks like an EIN for an individual is to eliminate using your SSAN. It says it will be issued immediately via the Internet. A few years ago I had to get a new retired US Army ID card that had an ID number instead of my SSAN. I am wondering if this is my EIN number or just an internal Army issued ID number? Now my big question: How am I going to return with my ammunition that I shot? How does that work? I hope this is all ironed out by my July trip. I'd hate to not take my own guns to South Africa for my first hunt there! PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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One of Us |
The concern I would have is when do you have to clear through Customs, at the airport or in advance. If in advance I guess it is a pain but certainly doable . . . just like getting the 4457 forms. If at the airport that works for airports like Houston where international arrivals and departures are at adjoining terminals and going to Customs when checking in is not a huge undertaking (I had to do that on my last trip). But in some airports not sure where Customs for arrivals and departures would be in terms of proximity to one another. Mike | |||
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One of Us |
I just got off the phone with a Customs agent in the Denver Airport. She said that they just learned of this new rule/requirement in February. The new process is not up and running as of yet and right now, it is business as usual. There is no way to access the system yet, at least according to her, and that if you are planning a trip, to keep checking the website or call your nearest Customs office to stay on top of it. Apparently, this is going to be the new normal procedure after it is up and running. | |||
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One of Us |
On my trip in February, I was subjected to a hybrid process. When I checked in at Emirates to leave Houston I was told that I needed to take my rifles to Customs for clearance. I took the rifles to Customs, presented my 4457 forms, they scribbled some initials and the date on the forms (in addition to the normal signatures and dates) then sent me back to Emirates to check in the rifles (and go through the TSA process). They never asked me for any export number or registration . . . just the 4457 forms. First time Customs has ever checked my rifles outbound. Mike | |||
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One of Us |
If you can do the clearance in advance it is a minor inconvenience however if it must be done at the airport on the day of departure it gets more complicated or possibly impossible depending on the airport and day of travel if on the weekend. | |||
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One of Us |
I don't believe you'd need to jump through the hoops as you'd be exporting the rifle and ammunition that you temporarily imported into the U.S. The customs website has the following language in it: "(d) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit a foreign person to export without a license such firearms in Category I(a) of §121.1 of this subchapter and ammunition therefor as the foreign person brought into the United States under the provisions of 27 CFR 478.115(d). (The latter provision specifically excludes from the definition of importation the bringing into the United States of firearms and ammunition by certain foreign persons for specified purposes.) " Customs Website | |||
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One of Us |
One of my hunting buddies was hit with this in Jan coming back from our Mexico deer lease at the Columbia bridge on the Texas border. Held him at bay for 3 hours because he didn't have his export permit to bring it back in the country. So now you see how the government will take away our right to hunt without us having to give up our guns. | |||
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One of Us |
So, if your flight originates in a US airport that is not a port of entry (and therefore doesn't HAVE Customs personnel on site) can you no longer check your rifle case through to your destination, as I have always done in the past? Now you have to set up your trip so that you have enough time in say, Dulles, to retrieve your bags, go visit Customs somewhere and then go see TSA again before boarding? At the very least it will make booking flights trickier than it was. I would appreciate hearing from those of you flying out these next few months to see how this works in practice. | |||
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One of Us |
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. I also looked at the AESDirect website and it does not look like it's set up to deal with those of us exempt from an export license, but who must still register our guns and ammo with Customs prior to leaving. Hopefully they get the bugs worked out of this before I take my son to Zim next year! | |||
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One of Us |
Assuming that your initial flight is from an airport that is a "port of entry" where they have CBP available. If not ... see below:
You hit the nail right on the head. Our rights are being eroded ... drip ... drip ... drip. | |||
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One of Us |
"anonymously" called he Customs and border protection office in Anchorage and talked with the Assistant Direction.... 1) He didn't know what a 4457 was. 2) He asked me if my guns were "registered" 3) He said, "If you aren't buying a gun or ammo abroad I don't see where there is a problem". Essentially, I'm not sure what date this new statute went into effect but I suspect the Border folks mostly don't know about it yet and thus you are at the mercy of individual whim and luck of the draw. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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One of Us |
Jim: Supposedly it goes into effect on April 3, 2015. Or at least that is the date I have seen. | |||
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One of Us |
Well just be politically complacent and this is what you get. I think Cal is correct. We not only will be denied the right to hunt but we will lose essentially every constitutional right that we grew up with. :madhat I would like to see is every hunter in the US stop hunting for one year and put every penny they would have spent to use supporting pro second amendment politicians. That would change the trajectory of this train wreck. | |||
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One of Us |
Exactly... I always fly out of Dulles and I don't even know where the CBP offices are except in the arrivals area... I am hoping I can do it at the local CBP office near my home. "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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One of Us |
Yep - we are screwed! "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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