Collared for research and conservation!!
WTF?

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/...397_1479172778_n.jpg

Simple, the cat is dead.

She-e-e-e-e-s-s Back!!! And she doesn't realize this pic is in the USA and NOT in africa. Wrong forum

Do these antis realize what they're doing posting this stupidity?
Game Trails online was bombarded by antis last week. For all their complaining, name calling, and threats they gave us 20K hits! Thanks for ranking us higher in Google anti hunters!

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Collared for research and conservation!!
WTF?

They are collared for research, the data is used to direct conservation.

The research is to provide data on how the animals live and die. With regulated sport hunting being part of the life, and sometimes death, of these animals it makes sense that some of the collared animals are killed by sport hunters.

If hunters pass up collared animals simply because they are collared the results are skewed.

Jason,

Please don't confuse the emotion with facts.

They don't like it.

It frightens them into logical thinking.

And that leads to the one thing they detest
.
.
.

Conservative voting.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Collared for research and conservation!!
WTF?

They are collared for research, the data is used to direct conservation.

The research is to provide data on how the animals live and die. With regulated sport hunting being part of the life, and sometimes death, of these animals it makes sense that some of the collared animals are killed by sport hunters.

If hunters pass up collared animals simply because they are collared the results are skewed.

Jo - The above is EXACTLY correct!!! E-mail Paula White, ask her what she says about shooting collared animals?? Any "real" scientist is looking for true/exact data on the particular animal they have collared, and different types of mortality is part of that scientific data. When a collared animal lives in or travels into a hunting area, mortality from hunting can be part of that factual info about how a particular animal lived/died, etc. I know you and your buddies don't like to hear it - but they ALL die somehow!!! Not shooting collared animals, simply because they are collared - is SKEWING the REAL data.

In 2002 I personally shot a collared lion along the border of Hwange Park in Zimbabwe. He was in fact collared in the park, he was in fact in a legal hunting area (when shot) and his mane was so big/full that we honestly did not see the collar until we approached the dead lion. Frankly, I would have shot him anyway - but we honestly did not see the collar prior to doing so. The Ph simply called the scientist (he knew him) - told him we had his collar, he came over, asked us about the hunt/where the lion was shot, and thanked us for returning his expensive collar. He too agreed - hunting mortality was part of his factual findings, and was glad to know the details.

You must learn to separate emotion from fact/science - we've talked about this before!!!!

it's a fucking mountain lion, you idiot! if you are going to post a stupid comment, at least post it where it belongs- in the North American hunting forum... i doubt that cougar has a passport and immigrated to Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Collared for research and conservation!!
WTF?

They are collared for research, the data is used to direct conservation.

The research is to provide data on how the animals live and die. With regulated sport hunting being part of the life, and sometimes death, of these animals it makes sense that some of the collared animals are killed by sport hunters.

If hunters pass up collared animals simply because they are collared the results are skewed.

Spot on Jason!

Hello Jo,

Can you please explain to us why your lot on Lionaid ban everyone who posts real facts on their web page?

What a bunch of utter hypocrites!

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Collared for research and conservation!!
WTF?

They are collared for research, the data is used to direct conservation.

The research is to provide data on how the animals live and die. With regulated sport hunting being part of the life, and sometimes death, of these animals it makes sense that some of the collared animals are killed by sport hunters.

If hunters pass up collared animals simply because they are collared the results are skewed.

+5

Firstly apologies for posting this in the wrong forum. In my shock at seeing this pic i did not indeed realise it was a mountain lion.

Jbrown,
Thank you for your response, i appreciate it.

Aaron,
Thank you Aaron. May i ask if it is a requirement when you shoot a collared lion that you let whomever collared it know or is that just a courtesy? Also are collared lions taken into account when quotas are set?

For the rest of you i came here to ask this question as i like to have both sides of the story. Yes this picture was posted somewhere in disgust but i didnt take that at face value i came here to ask why this happened.

Contrary to popular belief i am capable of keeping my emotions in check.

Saeed,
I am more than happy to discuss your questions with you but you just seem to want to go over old ground time and time again.
For the record i will state once more that i do not have any control over what lion aid do and do not do. Perhaps you should contact them, their email address is on their webpage.
If you wish to discuss irrelevant things to my posts with me perhaps you should private message me or email me. Im more than happy to give you my email address.

The real story the cat stole the collar from one of the dogs chasing him. They , the dogs and hunters caught up with him and kicked his ass.

Just saw this on Wild Justice. about California game wardens. They had a collared cat, collar told them it was dead, not moving, exact location of GPS inside collar, and knew exact location where cat was killed. The tracking collars tell alot. Land owner would not admit to it. Finally did when told if it was preying on his livestock legal to harvest.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Collared for research and conservation!!
WTF?

They are collared for research, the data is used to direct conservation.

The research is to provide data on how the animals live and die. With regulated sport hunting being part of the life, and sometimes death, of these animals it makes sense that some of the collared animals are killed by sport hunters.

If hunters pass up collared animals simply because they are collared the results are skewed.

quote:

Thank you Aaron. May i ask if it is a requirement when you shoot a collared lion that you let whomever collared it know or is that just a courtesy? Also are collared lions taken into account when quotas are set?

Jolo,

Yes it is required by law that if you shoot a collared animal that you notify the game department so that the data of that kill can be entered into their study. It's actually quite common.

It is expected that legally hunted collared animals will be harvested. After all the reason lions are hunted is that game managers depend on a certain number of legal kills. This is how they project and keep in line with desired population numbers.

This is known as conservation. As you apparently were not aware of by your initial post. But the good news is that you have a great opportunity to learn here and should take advantage of it so that you don't look so stupid and uniformed, and emotional in the future.

I understand people getting their knickers in a twist about things they simply do not understand. That is the case with most anti hunting groups.

The problem with that situation is, these people vote laws in that hinder the scientifically set of quotas! The California mountain lion is a good example of that situation. The California lion is now over populated to the extent it is invading cities killing live stock,other wildlife and pets, and in several cases Hikers. This is because the cats have lost their natural fear of humans, because of the hunting ban, rather than a quota system that not only assures the continued existence of the lion, but also protects livestock, pets and PEOPLE!

These quotas insure a continued existence of a viable species population of the particular species, which does not allow exceeding the birth rate, or over population in relation to available habitat.

However I have found over several years of trying to deal intelligently with anti hunting people, that they will not be swayed by facts, their minds are made up.

That my fine friend is a sad affair indeed, and the animals will suffer from the ignorance of real facts! Emotion solves nothing but to cloud the real facts!

........................................................................

Jo,

Whether shooting a collared animal affects the research study is dependent on two factors (at least two anyway). The first is what exactly are the objectives of the study? If it is a behavioral study to determine home range, habitat preferences or migration routes then killing one of the marked animal may hurt the study if it isn't accounted for. But no more so than any other type of mortality. Researchers will typically estimate expected mortality rates and increase their sample size of marked animals to compensate for expected mortality from all causes.

Determining mortality rates or causes from radio-collared animals can be very difficult and inaccurate. Unfortunately, the radio collar it self may cause added or lessened mortality over what occurs naturally. Hunters may avoid shooting a radio-collared animal or select it because it has one. This bias can skew results. The researcher must take that potential bias into consideration in study analysis and design.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Firstly apologies for posting this in the wrong forum. In my shock at seeing this pic i did not indeed realise it was a mountain lion.

Jbrown,
Thank you for your response, i appreciate it.

Aaron,
Thank you Aaron. May i ask if it is a requirement when you shoot a collared lion that you let whomever collared it know or is that just a courtesy? Also are collared lions taken into account when quotas are set?

For the rest of you i came here to ask this question as i like to have both sides of the story. Yes this picture was posted somewhere in disgust but i didnt take that at face value i came here to ask why this happened.

Contrary to popular belief i am capable of keeping my emotions in check.

Saeed,
I am more than happy to discuss your questions with you but you just seem to want to go over old ground time and time again.
For the record i will state once more that i do not have any control over what lion aid do and do not do. Perhaps you should contact them, their email address is on their webpage.
If you wish to discuss irrelevant things to my posts with me perhaps you should private message me or email me. Im more than happy to give you my email address.

if you can't tell a mountain lion from an African lion within 2 seconds of seeing the picture, you are really stupid/naive. the habitat in the background should have been your first clue. not too many pine trees in Africa lion country

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Firstly apologies for posting this in the wrong forum. In my shock at seeing this pic i did not indeed realise it was a mountain lion

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
.........................................

You must learn to separate emotion from fact/science - we've talked about this before!!!!

Sure we have talked about this before. Sure the antis have heard and ignored it before! Sure as hell the antis will now again ignore the facts/science and resort to emotional non-arguments!

Although we all know that we are wasting our time showing the antis the true facts/science - as they have and always will ignore the good advice - it at least gives us [certainly me] a good warm feeling of being right!

In good hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
it's a fucking mountain lion, you idiot! if you are going to post a stupid comment, at least post it where it belongs- in the North American hunting forum... i doubt that cougar has a passport and immigrated to Africa.

But if they do have passports, I bet they get through TSA without any hassles.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:
Firstly apologies for posting this in the wrong forum. In my shock at seeing this pic i did not indeed realise it was a mountain lion.

Jbrown,
Thank you for your response, i appreciate it.

Aaron,
Thank you Aaron. May i ask if it is a requirement when you shoot a collared lion that you let whomever collared it know or is that just a courtesy? Also are collared lions taken into account when quotas are set?

For the rest of you i came here to ask this question as i like to have both sides of the story. Yes this picture was posted somewhere in disgust but i didnt take that at face value i came here to ask why this happened.

Contrary to popular belief i am capable of keeping my emotions in check.

Saeed,
I am more than happy to discuss your questions with you but you just seem to want to go over old ground time and time again.
For the record i will state once more that i do not have any control over what lion aid do and do not do. Perhaps you should contact them, their email address is on their webpage.
If you wish to discuss irrelevant things to my posts with me perhaps you should private message me or email me. Im more than happy to give you my email address.

It is alright Jo,

We understand people like you cannot make much of a difference between a mountain lion and an African lion.

It actually is the least of our worries.

We just like your lot to see reality for what it is.

It is called LIFE and DEATH.

And they go hand in hand, one follows the other.

But, it is pointless of us trying to make you and your lot understand common sense.

You are very happy feeding yourself on meat from animals killed by proxy for you.

But you frown on other doing it for themselves.

Please look in the dictionary for the meaning of the words;

HYPOCRITE and HYPOCRACY!

It might explain it to you much better than I can.

First, of course, your lot need to get your collective heads out of that hole you so conveniently stuck your heads into.

I met an ecologist that said that if the animal is wearing a Collar and it fits the criteria required for legal taking of the animal that it was fine to kill it. Smart non hypocritical professionals they are. And doing a splendid job unlike some so called Conservation groups.

Hey Jo,

Can you tell us what kind of lion this is

May be you should tell your friends at lionaid to start a new campaign to save it!

What with the nitwits who pay them, I am sure they will succeed!

At the risk of getting in a urinary decathalon on this issue, I provide a trail cam picture of a collared leopard that fed on a bait we had hung on day 4 of a 14 day hunt last September. We didn't take this cat, but we fed him a pile of bait for the next 10 days.

He was collared in March and weighed 120 pounds at the time. He was 7'4" long and was 4 years old. How do we know all of that? The Cambridge researcher who collared him was able to provide all of that information.

We were hunting the Bubye Conservancy. I hope, Jo, you've watched with an open mind the video about the mission and goals of the BVC that's posted on this forum. The BVC is an exemplary private conservation project that's funded entirely from sport hunting. The lions and leopards there are thriving. Both are hunted and both are conserved. Not a contradiction in terms.

The researchers who were on the BVC for 4 years, were considering all factors in their conservation study - including sustainable offtake from sport hunting. Hunters are, therefore, not encouraged to avoid collared animals simply because of the collar. Several have been taken and those animals have factored into the overall data marshalled by the researchers.

As sport hunters in the BVC and in most other conservation areas in Southern Africa provide the lion's share (pun intended) of the research funding, isn't it logical that their impact on the various species should be considered?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
At the risk of getting in a urinary decathalon on this issue, I provide a trail cam picture of a collared leopard that fed on a bait we had hung on day 4 of a 14 day hunt last September. We didn't take this cat, but we fed him a pile of bait for the next 10 days.

He was collared in March and weighed 120 pounds at the time. He was 7'4" long and was 4 years old. How do we know all of that? The Cambridge researcher who collared him was able to provide all of that information.

We were hunting the Bubye Conservancy. I hope, Jo, you've watched with an open mind the video about the mission and goals of the BVC that's posted on this forum. The BVC is an exemplary private conservation project that's funded entirely from sport hunting. The lions and leopards there are thriving. Both are hunted and both are conserved. Not a contradiction in terms.

The researchers who were on the BVC for 4 years, were considering all factors in their conservation study - including sustainable offtake from sport hunting. Hunters are, therefore, not encouraged to avoid collared animals simply because of the collar. Several have been taken and those animals have factored into the overall data marshalled by the researchers.

As sport hunters in the BVC and in most other conservation areas in Southern Africa provide the lion's share (pun intended) of the research funding, isn't it logical that their impact on the various species should be considered?

Bwana,

How DARE you bring logic into Jo's arguments!

Don't you know that as far as her and her lot are concerned NO ANIMALS SHOULD BE KILLED.

They believe that one should get his meat from the supermarket WHERE NO ANIMALS ARE HURT!

quote:

Bwana,

How DARE you bring logic into Jo's arguments!

Don't you know that as far as her and her lot are concerned NO ANIMALS SHOULD BE KILLED.

They believe that one should get his meat from the supermarket WHERE NO ANIMALS ARE HURT!

I know. Hence my concern about getting into a urinary decathalon. I frequently argue with judges who don't want to be logical, and I have learned after many years it's generally like "urinating in the wind"

Thank you very much to those of you who have answered my questions about the hunting of collared animals.

For those of you quibbling over the lion, well it appears that hunting collared animals is not just the domain of the USA, so whilst perhaps daft of me not to notice that it was a mountain lion, the actual question about hunting of collared animals is just as relevant here as anywhere else.

Saeed,

quote:

We understand people like you cannot make much of a difference between a mountain lion and an African lion.

This makes no sense whatsoever. I shall make the assumption you mean that you understand people like me cannot tell the difference between a mopuntain lion and an african lion.
If you actually meant make much of a difference between them, no you're right i can't. I'd even go as far as to say noone can, nature decided their differences a long time ago or God depending on whether you believe in that stuff.

However i feel or don't feel about hunting i do wish you would not try to kid yourself or me about your reasons for hunting. The primary purpose is not for meat as you so often try to claim it is, it is about the thrill of the hunt and the trophy. At least be honest.

Chewbacca is lovely and unfortunately for you fictional otherwise i'm sure you would have hunted him by now :-)

quote:

How DARE you bring logic into Jo's arguments!

Oh Saeed, the only person you are arguing with is yourself. I have made no comment on any of the posts regarding collared animal hunts. I have just taken on board what is being said to me.
It is only you and a select few who choose to chew around the same arguments over and over again despite having my answers so many, many times.
I really appreciate you allowing me to post here, i've learnt loads of things and have taken them on board and have gone away with them to weigh up against other stuff.
I do however wish you would stop with the pathetic same old drivel when you have no sensible conversation.

So, Jo, have your passed on the valid reasons we have given you to your friends/colleagues that you got the picture from?

quote:

However i feel or don't feel about hunting i do wish you would not try to kid yourself or me about your reasons for hunting. The primary purpose is not for meat as you so often try to claim it is, it is about the thrill of the hunt and the trophy. At least be honest.

Jo let me S P E A K V E R Y S L O W L Y. because you don't seem to have any comprehension skills at all. Properly regulated legal hunting is the most important type of C O N S E R V A T I O N wildlife M A N A G E M E N T that is available.

If there is one animal of a species left you can look at it and take pictures until it's gone. Hunting management by it's definition requires an excess population.

No hunting quickly equals no animals outside of reserves and parks especially in a place such as Africa. Your lion aid will do nothing but crash any remaining wild populations if successful. Just take a look at Kenya and what has happened to free roaming wildlife populations outside of parks. They have been D E C I M A T E D! No value = no place and they are killed off. When animals rights organizations win, wildlife losses.

Carry on, just know that you my dear with your emotionality and self serving views are the true enemy of wildlife.

quote:

Originally posted by StormsGSP:
So, Jo, have your passed on the valid reasons we have given you to your friends/colleagues that you got the picture from?

Who would you like me to pass it on to?
I asked this question to understand for MYSELF not because anyone else queried hunting collared animals.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

However i feel or don't feel about hunting i do wish you would not try to kid yourself or me about your reasons for hunting. The primary purpose is not for meat as you so often try to claim it is, it is about the thrill of the hunt and the trophy. At least be honest.

Jo let me S P E A K V E R Y S L O W L Y. because you don't seem to have any comprehension skills at all. Properly regulated legal hunting is the most important type of C O N S E R V A T I O N wildlife M A N A G E M E N T that is available.

If there is one animal of a species left you can look at it and take pictures until it's gone. Hunting management by it's definition requires an excess population.

No hunting quickly equals no animals outside of reserves and parks especially in a place such as Africa. Your lion aid will do nothing but crash any remaining wild populations if successful. Just take a look at Kenya and what has happened to free roaming wildlife populations outside of parks. They have been D E C I M A T E D! No value = no place and they are killed off. When animals rights organizations win, wildlife losses.

Carry on, just know that you my dear with your emotionality and self serving views are the true enemy of wildlife.

Ok one of two things is occuring here.
1. You are trying to tell me that your (generic) primary reason for hunting is conservation. I do not believe this for a minute.

OR

2. You are stupid! Where in the quote you have quoted did i say what i felt about hunting? Where did i say that hunting has no place in conservation?

I'm asking questions and have been for quite a while here so i can form a well rounded informed opinion. If you want questions answered you go to those in the know and if you guys know anything, its hunting and arguments for it.

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:

quote:

Originally posted by jolouburn:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

However i feel or don't feel about hunting i do wish you would not try to kid yourself or me about your reasons for hunting. The primary purpose is not for meat as you so often try to claim it is, it is about the thrill of the hunt and the trophy. At least be honest.

Jo let me S P E A K V E R Y S L O W L Y. because you don't seem to have any comprehension skills at all. Properly regulated legal hunting is the most important type of C O N S E R V A T I O N wildlife M A N A G E M E N T that is available.

If there is one animal of a species left you can look at it and take pictures until it's gone. Hunting management by it's definition requires an excess population.

No hunting quickly equals no animals outside of reserves and parks especially in a place such as Africa. Your lion aid will do nothing but crash any remaining wild populations if successful. Just take a look at Kenya and what has happened to free roaming wildlife populations outside of parks. They have been D E C I M A T E D! No value = no place and they are killed off. When animals rights organizations win, wildlife losses.

Carry on, just know that you my dear with your emotionality and self serving views are the true enemy of wildlife.

Ok one of two things is occuring here.
1. You are trying to tell me that your (generic) primary reason for hunting is conservation. I do not believe this for a minute.

OR

2. You are stupid! Where in the quote you have quoted did i say what i felt about hunting? Where did i say that hunting has no place in conservation?

I'm asking questions and have been for quite a while here so i can form a well rounded informed opinion. If you want questions answered you go to those in the know and if you guys know anything, its hunting and arguments for it.

JOLO what you seem unable to realize is, we have been dealing with animal rights folks for many years, and they have always come on hunting websites with a hidden agenda. It should be no surprise that we are skittish of anyone from that side of the track.

Because we explain the benefit of hunting in the assurance of a continued existence of game animals being the most successful tool in conservation, is because all animal rights folks seem to believe that hunting wipes out the game animals, and the opposite is true.

That is not telling you our reason for hunting is only conservation. Certainly our main reason is because we are simply practicing what has been mans natural participation has been from the beginning of time. The fact that the quotas also maintain viable populations of the GAME animals also preserves habitat for all wild animals in the process.

The fact that some animals hunted are not eaten by the hunter means nothing. The fact is the meat from those animals is utilized by other wildlife if left in the field, and if in the case of Africa, where it is illegal to bring meat back into the USA, that meat is not wasted, but what is not consumed in camp, is utilized by the local people who are starved for protein. This not only furnishes much needed meat to hungry people, but also gives the animals in their area a value so the locals report poachers who kill any and everything that walks, crawls or flies regardless of the fact that may be a truly endangered species!

The regulated hunting places more money in the game departments to fight the illegal over harvesting of all animals, not just the animals we hunt, and maintain habitat for all animal. If you want to know who does the most harm to wildlife, it is people who encroach on habitat for ski lodges, and building a home with a beautiful view, the want the deer and bear removed to protect their trees, and kids. Those who profess that people are not supposed to eat meat,(Vegans) are the cause thousands upon thousands of acres of habitat to be cleared to make vegetable farms where no animal is tolerated. The cattle industry creates ranches where lots of animals live, and hunting concessions do the same for all wild life.

NO Jolo, we do not hunt for only the reason that it supplies US with meat and trophies, nor do we only hunt because it is the best method to insure that game animals will continue to be there for generations to come. However it is our responsibility to tell those facts to those who do not know that hunting is the best friend all wildlife has, and when hunting is outlawed in any place on Earth, shortly there after there is no wild life left there, because if the animals that share the habitat and compete with humans for space, and resources will be systematically removed. How many deer have you seen in a 500 acre shopping center where most animal rights do their shopping for their leather shoes and belts?

.......................................................................

if you are too stupid to know the difference between a mountain lion and an African lion, you are not entitled to an opinion- you are simply another uninformed fool.

Jolo said

quote:

...... For the record i will state once more that i do not have any control over what lion aid do and do not do. Perhaps you should contact them, their email address is on their webpage.

Ok, here is the challenge, if you are genuinely open minded, honest and fair in discussing conservation. How about you posting on Lion Aid site criticising them for banning all people who post counter arguments. How about you showing AR as an example where open discussion and debate takes place? How about you condemning the emotional, prejudiced rants on that site?

That is a challenge to your integrity!

Jolo said

quote:

..... 1. You are trying to tell me that your (generic) primary reason for hunting is conservation. I do not believe this for a minute.

Check you fact before you get ridiculed around the world.

Every single national park and tiger reserve in India was a former hunting preserve. What does that tell you? This is proof that effective conservation of endangered species in true wilderness areas is successful when it is controlled & managed by ethical hunting.

Yes some of the old Maharajas did not practice ethical hunting all the time, but the current preserves are a result of their efforts.

Every hunting area in Africa with sustainable population of Lion has an effective anti-poaching program supported and run by the hunting industry. Conversely, many non hunting areas are poached out of game because the conservation program is ineffective without the hunting industry's involvement.

Another fact - the anti-hunting group has no track record of having achieved any major conservation success in any true wilderness area that is not fenced or is not an urban park.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Hello Jo,

Can you please explain to us why your lot on Lionaid ban everyone who posts real facts on their web page?

What a bunch of utter hypocrites!

Jo,
Saeed is correct.

Pieter wrote a blog about me, Aaron, the Lion Conservation Task Force, and our reply to USF&W in regards to the potential uplisting of lion to endangered under the US ESA.

He had some things out of context and some things just plain wrong. I tried to reply and it never showed up on the website.

Why don't you work on getting Dr. Kat to be open and forthright before you come on here and ask WTF???

i've seen instances where conservation offices have requested hunters to shoot collared animals. many hunters see the collar and pass on the animal.

collars are required to be returned to fish and game.

this requirement is the same with fish. ( before someone gets their knickers in a twist. ) tagged fish are also allowed as part of a creel limit if that particular species is allowed.

i've caght catfish,trout and salmon all with tags and returned them for scientific study. nowadays they implant salmon and fish personnel scan your fish as u get off the boat to retrieve the data.

most times when collared and tagged game is taken, those who do the study send u info a to your particular animal. same when submitting bear teeth and tags from fish.

interesting little souvenir. i keep mine !

Logic & female, now there's an oxymoron...

quote:

Ok one of two things is occuring here.
1. You are trying to tell me that your (generic) primary reason for hunting is conservation. I do not believe this for a minute.

OR

2. You are stupid! Where in the quote you have quoted did i say what i felt about hunting? Where did i say that hunting has no place in conservation?

This about the level of pig headed ignorance I thought I'd get from you sugar pants.

The primary reason I hunt is because I enjoy it and I do it well. Conservation is a secondary yet all encompassing and important benefit from my hunting dollars.

Secondly you come on here calling a Mt Lion and African lion and you have the nerve to call me stupid? Wow! One thing I've noticed about you animals rights types is that universally you guys don't know shit about animals.

I very succinctly explained to you how the collared game thing goes down and how it's relevant and in no way an ethical issue above and you ignored it.

You know what they say. You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think!