http://www.kambakosafaris.com/mozambique/home.htm

I'm out. Go to town boys......and girls.

Brett

I forgot to post the link to Kambako's website. If you look at the lion charge video on their website you'll see they followed it up with a truck. ozhunter posted the report of a 100 pounder taken in Mozambique with Kambako and a couple people went on Kambako's website saw the video and started an ethics debate on the elephant thread. I'm creating a place for them to talk about it so they can leave the elephant thread to the elephant.

Brett

Good move, Brett.

I might get some flack from this, but I really do not see anything wrong with following a wounded lion in a truck, especially in high grass or thick bush.

I agree completely.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I might get some flack from this, but I really do not see anything wrong with following a wounded lion in a truck, especially in high grass or thick bush.

Me neither. It's faster and safer and I'd bet that most people who are against it would rapidly change their minds if they were actually in the position of having to go in there and pull the animal out of the thick stuff by his tail.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I might get some flack from this, but I really do not see anything wrong with following a wounded lion in a truck, especially in high grass or thick bush.

Me neither. It's faster and safer and I'd bet that most people who are against it would rapidly change their minds if they were actually in the position of having to go in there and pull the animal out of the thick stuff by his tail.

Flak jackets on?

1.

You have a wounded Lion in the Kilombero valley, there is no vehicle because you are obliged to hunt the area by boat and on foot.

There are many other areas with similar conditions.

2.

You are in the boulder strewn thickets of Kitiangare or Lobo where not even the Maasai cattle can venture, let alone a L/C.
The wounded Lion or Buffalo is somewhere in the middle of that crap.

"Dear Mr. Client, Pole Sana, wounded and lost"?

you then man up and follow it up....and pray.

troy

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
"Dear Mr. Client, Pole Sana, wounded and lost"?

Damn but that made me laugh!

If only it were that easy huh!

Brett,
This vid has already been discussed here a couple of times.

Fujo,
Why not waive a $1000 "ticket" to the GS and go try for another?

We have just returned from a safari, and amongst the things we talked about was following wounded animals.

We have ALWAYS followed whatever we have shot immediately, no matter what animal it is, no matter where it had gone.

We have followed a shot lion, where we had no idea whether he is dead, or just lying in wait. Into a rocky river bed where one can get to within arm reach to a lion and not see it.

In fact, both me and Roy passed by it dead between rocks without seeing it.

The trackers behind us saw it.

We have followed wounded buffalo into very thick grass. And we have followed wounded buffalo into very thick bush.

Early this month, on Mount Gelai, we got to within 5 yards of a buffalo lying in thick bush without seeing him - despite the fact that we knew he was there.

He took off, and all we could see was the branches moving.

Having said all that, if we knew there is a wounded animal in thick stuff, and a truck IS available, we would not hesitate to use it.

One time I shot a leopard. And as fell off the tree he started walking as if nothing is wrong with him at all. There was no chance of another shot.

It was just as the sun went down. And as usually happen with leopards, the truck came as soon as they heard the shot.

It was getting hard to see because darkness is approaching, and we found a few spots of blood.

Both me and my PH sat on the hood of the truck, and we followed where we thought he had gone.

We found him lying in the grass about 50 yards from where he was shot. He was still alive, but had no strength to move. We both fired at him.

It is OK for an arm chair safari dreamer to claim he is not going to use any means he has at his disposal to protect himself in following wounded animals.

It is a different matter when you are faced with this fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

It is OK for an arm chair safari dreamer to claim he is not going to use any means he has at his disposal to protect himself in following wounded animals.

It is a different matter when you are faced with this fact.

Ain't that the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

It is OK for an arm chair safari dreamer to claim he is not going to use any means he has at his disposal to protect himself in following wounded animals.

It is a different matter when you are faced with this fact.

and the Ph's life to because in the end he is the one responsible for your safety while your hunting with him


SAEED
hit them right on the nose
The armchair dreamers have know Idea what africa is really like or how fast a wounded Lion, Buffalo, Elephant, Leopard etc. can ruin your day and possibly the rest of your life if you survive.

Ditto what Saeed and Steve said

earlier this year we had an incident where a wounded buffalo went into 8 ft tall grass, im 6ft5 but aint no cowboy - we called the vehicle in and with it in lowrange we managed to close the distance which enabled us to finish the animal from the top of the vehicle. i learnt two things that day - not even a 500gr bullet place slightly above the brain will kill a buff, it knocked it down but he was up in a flash and secondly that i wouldnt attempt that on foot. let alone with a lion, kinda like going after a wounded lion into a sugar cane field - you are asking for an asskicking of note

+1 +1
using the truck and living to talk about it beats Bravado and being dead every time.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Fujo,
Why not waive a $1000 "ticket" to the GS and go try for another?

Bwanamich:

" Waive" is the correct word - ain't no GS going to get $1000 from any client of mine - though it might be the trend in your neck of the woods

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We have just returned from a safari, and amongst the things we talked about was following wounded animals.

We have ALWAYS followed whatever we have shot immediately, no matter what animal it is, no matter where it had gone.

We have followed a shot lion, where we had no idea whether he is dead, or just lying in wait. Into a rocky river bed where one can get to within arm reach to a lion and not see it.

In fact, both me and Roy passed by it dead between rocks without seeing it.

The trackers behind us saw it.

We have followed wounded buffalo into very thick grass. And we have followed wounded buffalo into very thick bush.

Early this month, on Mount Gelai, we got to within 5 yards of a buffalo lying in thick bush without seeing him - despite the fact that we knew he was there.

He took off, and all we could see was the branches moving.

Having said all that, if we knew there is a wounded animal in thick stuff, and a truck IS available, we would not hesitate to use it.

One time I shot a leopard. And as fell off the tree he started walking as if nothing is wrong with him at all. There was no chance of another shot.

It was just as the sun went down. And as usually happen with leopards, the truck came as soon as they heard the shot.

It was getting hard to see because darkness is approaching, and we found a few spots of blood.

Both me and my PH sat on the hood of the truck, and we followed where we thought he had gone.

We found him lying in the grass about 50 yards from where he was shot. He was still alive, but had no strength to move. We both fired at him.

It is OK for an arm chair safari dreamer to claim he is not going to use any means he has at his disposal to protect himself in following wounded animals.

It is a different matter when you are faced with this fact.

Fine to speculate about certain areas of TZ. This didn't happen in TZ.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Fine to speculate about certain areas of TZ. This didn't happen in TZ.

Larry,

Mate, I don't understand your point. Surely a wounded DG animal, a truck and the rules of safety remain the same wherever it's happening?

Or am I missing something?

The sporting ethical thing to do is find and finish the wounded animal as expitiously as possible. Once it is wounded things change.
to those of you who feel this is unethical here is a sharp stick and a rock. The rest of us will call it cleaning up the gene pool.

I normally put things as an opinion or a personal preference but this dicussion is stupid and ridiculous.

"nuff said"

SSR

Steve:

Kamboko's issue was in Mozambique. That is what the discussion was initially about. Then speculation arose about certain areas of TZ. What the law is for a particular area of TZ has no application to Kamboko.

Wouldn't it be safer to just stay home and watch the video here? And a lot easier and cheaper to boot.

Why would you hunt DG in the first place if there were a chance of getting hurt?

Rich

Larry,

Sorry mate. I still don't understand.

The game laws of both and indeed most other countries are all similar and all more or less say that a wounded animal shall be followed up and finished as soon as is practicably possible.

I haven't trawled all the way through the other thread but assume the debate is basically about whether one should use a vehicle to follow up a wounded DG animal?

In which case, surely, the country it's happening in, isn't as important as whether a vehicle should be used or not?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Wouldn't it be safer to just stay home and watch the video here? And a lot easier and cheaper to boot.

Why would you hunt DG in the first place if there were a chance of getting hurt?

Rich

Ummmm ISS sorry i think your statement lacks depth at all levels... once and if you have experienced a situation where you know your arse is on the line for real your outlook is sure to change... should i be hunting with a PH and wound a DG animal and we are in a position to use a vehicle to safely recover the animal without anybody getting hurt(see besides maybe two or three guns, there are chaps who are essential to a safari and i would hate to see them killed because we were trying to get a gunho hunter his thrills) i would do so without a heartbeat.

just two months ago we followed a wounded buffalo through some thick shit for 4 days because the clients shot was way to high and couldnt leave that animal to take out revenge on unsuspecting locals - i do not wish to do that again.

to read about a horror mauling is one thing but i do not wish to experience it nor wish it on anybody especially if it is out of stupidity.... there was a story a couple of years ago - maybe two in African Sporting Gazette where a PH and a client followed a wounded lion into a sugar cane field - they both got chewed on.

I aint no chicken but as they say in Afrikaans "liewers bang jan as dooie jan"

The only place I have a problem with shooting game from the hunting car is for the first shot on anything other that camp meat, or baits!

Once a trophy animal is wounded and out of sight, I see absolutely nothing wrong in shooting followed up wounded game from the back of the hunting car where the vision is better, and clearer shots are presented to finish the job.

As long as the game is hunted, and shot for the first shot standing on your own two feet, you have done the hunt the ethical way IMO! For follow-up it is only unethical to let the animal suffer unnecessarily, and/or risk getting someone killed by an already wounded animal.

When I saw the clip and realized they had shot this lion from the top of the truck, with no explanation of it being a follow-up of a wounded lion, it ticked me off as well. This is the problem of filming hunts without proper notification of circumstances. It leaves the viewer to process only what he sees. This is a case where a narrator should have set the up seen to avoid any misunderstanding.

YAAA what he said some accuse me of trying to shoot out of the hunting car!!!!!!!!! but they lie I was out of the car both feet where on the ground

Both feet?

When this happens to me I strip off my shirt grab a knife between my teeth and charge in. No need for caution I am an internet ninja.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
When this happens to me I strip off my shirt grab a knife between my teeth and charge in. No need for caution I am an internet ninja.

Now we just need Dave there to film you!

OK OK foot a$$hole happy now!!!!!!!

+1 to what Saeed, and every other sane, reasonable and rational person agreeing with him, has said above.

I think my wife might prefer to follow or hunt all Bushbuck's from a vehicle now.

Anyone here, give me two reasons to pay from $35K USD to over $50K USD to hunt Lion.

Here's one:
1. Because it is dangerous.

2. You tell me.

That is the basic reason y'all pay lots of $$$ to hunt Dangerous Game. Because, it's dangerous! The ever present element of danger is what makes the hunt irresistible. If you mess up, it could be your last ever one.
The truck totally eliminates that adrenaline rush producing element of danger. It's just an expensive road hunt.

Don't castigate me; because it's the message, not the messenger. I want you to justify you personally doing this.

regards,

Rich

You might be a little low on the cost brother.

Rich mate, no-one is saying you can't walk if you prefer not to ride........ me, I'll be in the truck if there's the option.....

More seriously, there's more than enough danger in hunting lion without allowing a degree of dumbness to increase it needlessly.

Lions can hurt you even if you're on the truck.
Sometimes the truck would not even be an option.
There sure could could be times where one might wish to let the lion "stiffin-up" a bit before the follow-up.

Saeed nailed it.

Having gone in pursuit of a shot lion - we didn't know if it was a fatal shot or not - IN THE DARK with no moon- he was shot at last light and we waited in the tree machan a reasonable period of time. I was the shooter and knew I hit him in the vitals with a .458Lott, but I was in recoil and neither I nor the PH saw his reaction.

I assure you my sphincter muscles were in full contraction as we started out with flashlight and rifle. We knew there were other Lions in the immediate area; a pride most likely. After moving perhaps 20 yards, verrrrry slowly, we decided to return to our tree and call in the truck and trackers. After mounting the truck with all hands we saw many eyes reflecting the light of our flashlights back towards us. There were a lot of Lions in that pride and they seemed to be disinclined to vacate the area. Hunting had returned less than a year following a multi-year closure. We decided it was too dangerous, even in the truck, and decided to return at first light with more shooters and all trackers and game scouts.

Found him immediately at first light, stone dead, 45 yards from where I shot him. Fortunately no Hyenas got to him. He was old and very large. He is pictured in my avatar.

So, would I use a truck to follow-up a wounded Lion? I have done and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. This was without a doubt, the most concerned I have ever been in Africa, including Buff at 10 feet in the jess on foot and charter planes running out of runway, snakes falling from trees into my lap while riding through long grass, being chased by pissed Hippo and tracking wounded Buff in thick Mozambique forest.

For ISS - Rich, once again you speak of that which you have no knowledge. Go hunt your first Lion and then come tell us there is no adrenaline rush on follow-up in a truck. A wounded Lion can get into the truck with you whenever he wants. Oh, and they don't need NVGs to see in the dark.

Lion in 2001 Tanzania = $50K
Lion in 2004 Zambia $50K
Lion in 2011 Anywhere $MORE

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Anyone here, give me two reasons to pay from $35K USD to over $50K USD to hunt Lion.

regards,

Rich

Feel free to point me towards a real lion hunt in that price range. I'm researching now and you are way light!!