quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
No progress.....have not heard nothing back from NAPHA yet......

Mac

I have no intention of running down NAPHA at all. I do know that PHASA as an organization would, if approached under similar conditions, in the first instance take the stance of protecting their member, the "PH" in PHASA!

Not knowing what to expect from NAPHA, I went to their Home Page and tried to see what they are all about. Here a quote from their Mission Statement:

quote:

The Hunting Professional is at all times encouraged to act responsibly towards nature, wildlife and the local population.

The client is conspicuously absent - as he is obviously not a member of the local population! If NAPHA's own Mission Statement leaves the client out of the list of things & people towards which a PH should act responsibly – what do you expect NAPHA to do now about the (mis?)conduct their member Boet Nel?

I know what the PHASA of a few years ago would do under the saame circumstances. For your sake I do hope that NAPHA has a different attitude!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Mckay: Any news ?

Saeed
Had you ever considered having a dedicated Black list section with links to potential bad eggs and the stories that follow them.
Even if it just brought together the reports, with the said offender having the opportunity to defend their practice, in order for things not to get lost in cyberspace. I just find it unacceptable that if these guys keep quiet long enough it goes away and they get to hunt again and screw others.
Ian

When did you do your booking, Leopard hunting was cancelled fairly early last year, we had the Napha meeting in July and by that time it was already cancelled, that means that no body could book leopard hunts because non of us new when they would open it again, also as an outfitter you cannot take a permit for the following year in Namibia, the best you can do is to go early in the year and apply for your permits for the rest of the year but I can't take a permit this year for a client for 2011.

I believe you should get your money back,all the outfitters in Namibia new about the future of Leopard hunting in Namibia, it's important to see when you have booked.

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions or need help to get in touch with the right people.

I am in the same boat; had a leopard hunt booked in Namibia for 2010. Booked directly with the PH. Put down 3K. No insurance.

Leopard hunting was cancelled before I left for Tanz in Sep. My Namibia operator said he would let me defer the hunt if I was unsuccessful, or refund it if I shot a leopard in Tanz.

I still have not received my refund, but I am confident I will. I think this change has everyone in Namibia scrambling. Maybe I should just go leopard hunting in 2011, huh?

You know, the internet has anonymity, but at the same time often allows incredible transparency. I don't think this is the day and age when you want to piss off customers.

If I were you I would take someone on a plains game hunt, your son or a close friend, get your moneys worth and then book a leopard hunt with someone else in Zim or else where. Whats saying they don't do it again.

I booked Feb 9th of 2008. Timmot, there is absolutely no way that I will give this outfitter one more red cent. I met up with him and Reno and we exchanged words. He is insistent that I changed my changed my hunt to a Leopard/Plainsgame hunt. What I did tell him after the booking was that I was interested in hunting plainsgame after we were successful on a Leopard. This was clearly booked as a Leopard hunt. I have no interest in going all the way to Namibia or Africa for that matter if Dangerous Game is not on the menu. I enjoy plainsgame hunting, but in my opinion it is only secondary to good tracking hunt for dangerous game.

I spoke with a member of the ethics committee of SCI while I was out there. They said there was nothing they could do as “They do not get involved in contractual matters”. Still not sure what their place is if they don’t look into matters considering breach of contracts. I would think contract matters would be the easiest for them to look into.

Also tried catching up with someone in the NAPHA booth. However I don’t think the gal they had in the booth each time I walked by even knew what booth she was in. She was completely useless and clueless.

And the few emails I have sent to Volker Grellmann the executive secretary of NAPHA have gone un-answered.

The few times I was around Boet’s booth I made sure to try and speak with anyone that walked away from his booth to tell them to stay away. Most were very interested in what problems I had so I let them know. A few even wanted to see a copy of my contract and the correspondence I had with Boet. I had copies of all of this in my bag and obliged anyone that asked.

Mac

As I posted earlier, another added to my "no hunt list".

I truly sympathize with your plight. While there is the disappointment of having your hunt go south, the dollar loss has to be of concern. While some here would write it off as a learning experience I would hammer this guy until I received some satisfaction.

As a member of SCI I am very concerned by their reaction.

"I spoke with a member of the ethics committee of SCI while I was out there. They said there was nothing they could do as “They do not get involved in contractual matters”. Still not sure what their place is if they don’t look into matters considering breach of contracts. I would think contract matters would be the easiest for them to look into".

Looking back at the OOA fiasco, I have to ask what is really going on at SCI.

Good luck, I hope you get some satisfaction on this. I wonder if Boet Nel has a clue about his potential loss?

I think we should all start corresponding with “Boet Nel Hunting Safaris” about booking a hunt. String him along for a few months. Then say we received some unfavorable information about him and we are taking our business elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
...And the few emails I have sent to Volker Grellmann the executive secretary of NAPHA have gone un-answered...

Mac

This is disturbing indeed. What then is the purpose of NAPHA? I've heard that several years ago NAPHA lost a lawsuit with a former member who it kicked out for some reason or another. Is NAPHA now too afraid to pursue complaints of unscrupulous members? Is this the first complaint they have heard about Boet Nel?

If NAPHA is not willing to step up to the plate and deal with members such as this (and this is not the first time they have failed to act on legitimate complaints), then they are nothing more than the Namibian safari industry's chamber of commerce tasked with painting the industry in a good light and ignoring or masking its pitfalls.

Correction, it was brought to my attention Mr. Grellman is the NAPHA Ombudsman, not the executive secretary.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
Correction, it was brought to my attention Mr. Grellman is the NAPHA Ombudsman, not the executive secretary.

Thank you for clearing that up. It should be a comfort to all that you're emails were ignored by precisely the person tasked with dealing with such complaints. Below is taken directly from NAPHA's web site at this link:

The Benefit of Hunting with a NAPHA Member (according to NAPHA )

quote:

From NAPHA's site:
...
Ombudsman
Due to the fact that NAPHA considers YOU, the trophy hunter as important as you consider your mounted trophy, NAPHA certificate and medals, so has NAPHA appointed an Ombudsman to handle all written complaints against NAPHA-members. Complaints could vary from:

Unethical hunting aspects
Impairment of human rights
Unlawful hunting practices
Violation of a contract / written, mutual agreement or malpractice.
Ombudsman : Volker Grellmann, Tel + 264 62 540423, Email : anvo@mweb.com.na

Procedure for Lodging complaints
It is your right as a trophy hunter to Namibia to lodge complaints with NAPHA (relating to aspects of your hunt), which have occurred during the duration of your hunting excursion in Namibia. Unfortunately NAPHA can only deal with written complaints against NAPHA MEMBERS.
After a written complaint has been lodged, the Ombudsman will conduct an investigation, after which feedback will be provided to the complainant.

Of course it says the complaint must be in writing and considering that the only contact provided to respond in writing is to his email address, I can only conclude you took the proper course. It's sad that the Ombudsman of an organization that holds itself in such high esteem would ignore your complaint. I guess I have to ask this question again, what purpose does NAPHA really serve?

I think I have stated in this thread before (maybe not) that I have not been completely ignored by NAPHA. I did recieve one email from them that they sent on October 2, 2009 saying that they were investigating the matter and would get back with me. I have not recieved any more emails from them and have asked for an update on thier investigation several times now.
Mac

I Recieved an email from Volker Grellmann this morning. Attached was the letter they sent to Boet Nel on 12/2/09. It lists an account of the correspondence they received from boet. (I assume this is where it came from, it appears to be basically our emails) After the account of events the letter states, "This office requests you to set up a list of expenses you had, due to the cancelled plains game hunt and pass this by this office for verification on reasonability. This is to happen within the next 30 days." There were some inaccuracies in their account of the events and correspondence which I replied back to today. These inaccuracies could have been incorrect information received from Boet. I forwarded them the emails I had to back up my claim of the inaccuracies. Most of my corrections had to deal with the claimed cancelled plainsgame hunt. I found out yesterday that Boet has been claiming that my hunt originally started out as a plainsgame hunt then was changed to a Leopard hunt. This is complete BS, I have the contract and all the emails to back it up. So we will see how it goes.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:
Saeed
Had you ever considered having a dedicated Black list section with links to potential bad eggs and the stories that follow them.
Even if it just brought together the reports, with the said offender having the opportunity to defend their practice, in order for things not to get lost in cyberspace. I just find it unacceptable that if these guys keep quiet long enough it goes away and they get to hunt again and screw others.
Ian

Vlam

I doubt this will ever happen, for the same reason NAPHA is very slow and inefficient in their responses.

I posted on AR about my problems with Boet Nel, and a few of his supporters here basically portrayed me as a

moron
whiner
malcontent

and "Boet" as a grand fellow.

NAPHA did very little, but I eventually received back about $500 out of $1800 ot so.

I have also posted about issues I had with on Chris Troskie- and again I was portrayed as a

moron
cross dresser
malcontent
whiner

It is only a matter of time before, in my opinion, another AR member has problems with Troskie, and I will sit here and say "I told you so".

For the record, I have, in addition to Boet Nel and Chris Troskie, hunted with 6 other PHs (on 8 other hunts) with complete satisfaction and no issues.

I also think it won't happen because there is I believe an inclination to believe the PH because the average guy tends to look up to them, but all you have to do is read AR for a bit to see that there are many that are not- and many clients who are not so great either.


McKay- good for you for confronting him at SCI! Way to go! Keep us posted, please.

McKay,

Tell him to stick the money up his backside and I will deduct the same amount off a Leopard hunt on my property in Zambia.

And don't worry about a deposit either we can sort that out over a cold beer on the banks of the Luangwa

Send me a PM if this interests you.

Cheers

Andrew

McKay,

I was sure hoping that Boet would settle this with you. I can only imagine that Reno got a little hot.

A touch of class in a sad affair. Hat off to you, Andrew.

Recieved this today, I requested some updated information on this a couple of days ago. Looks like this is the best I will end up seeing.....Said I did not agree completely but would accept the offer.

Thanks
Mac


From: V. Grellmann [mailto:vgrellmann@mweb.com.na]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 5:33 AM
To: Mac Jenkins
Cc: Marsofine Kynauw
Subject: case 13-09-09 Leopard Hunt Deposit

Dear Mr. Mac Jenkins

Kindly accept my apologies for having delayed this answer but as promised last time I wanted to discuss my decision with Board Members and the Disciplinary Committee.

I did this in the meantime before the CEO and President of NAPHA as well as the full Disciplinary Committee for further guidance. The following was then decided:
1. That the full deposit paid by Mac Jenkins to Boet Nel to the amount of U$ 4580-00 (9.2.2008) be repaid by Mr. Nel to Mr. Mac Jenkins.
2. That Mr. Nel is to reasonably be compensated for the shortterm cancellation expenses he incurred.
3. Should no conciliation be achieved the case is to be transferred to the Disciplinary Committee.
Explaination to 1): It is neither the mistake of Mr. Mac Jenkins nor Mr. Nel that the booked Leopard hunt could not take place. Also Mr. Nel cannot be blaimed for not having taken out the permit at an earlier date. The term "not refundable deposit" is only applicable when client cancels the hunt which was not the case. Therefore the full deposit payment should be returned to the client. It is rather unfortunate that the Ministry hat to install the shortterm moratorium but there were many other outfitters that suffered the same fait. Also it is costumary to only apply 4-6 weeks before a client arrives, for a permint. Kindly note that in future this procedure has changed dramatically in adaptation to the problems that had occured.

Explaination to 2): Mr. Mac Jenkins is correct in stating that the contract was for the Leopard hunt only. However there is ample evidence in the following communications that Mr. Nel offered a plains-game hunt to Mr. Mac Jenkins in the same timeframe together with his friend Mr. Cassel (see coms. June 17, 2009). "However now that I have this time off scheduled and I'm ready to go.....". From further coms. it does not appear that Mr. Nel put any unacceptable obstacles in the way - on the contrary. However the mentioned "last ditch" offer calling for promises which could not be honoured by Mr. Nel under the circumstances was explained to Mr. Mac Jenkins by this office.

Therefore it was decided that the Mac Jenkins' cancellation of the hunt 9 days before the planned hunting date should be seen as a cancelled hunt for which it was felt that Mr. Nel can demand some compensation. This office received a list of amounts from Mr. Nel which was adjusted by this office and should be in this form be acceptable to both sides. The cancellation fee has been set at U$ 2221-00. This is to be subtracted from the paid deposit of U$ 4580-00. Mr. Nel is to refund U$ 2359-00.

Both sides are requested to respond to this proposal within 30 days. If no aimicable solution can be found within that timespan this case will be transferred to the Disciplinary Committee on July 19, 2010.

Mr. Mac Jenkins please also take into consideration that considerable damage was done to Mr. Nel's reputation through various actions (e.g. Internet etc.)

Looking forward to your kind co-operation
Yours faithfully,
Volker Grellmann
Ombudsman NAPHA

I know you're trying to make the best out of a bad situation, Mac.

But it's hard for me to figure out NAPHA's explanation of why Nel is entitled to compensation. I don't understand the logic there.

The references to a PG hunt and "further coms" and "unacceptable obstacles" and "last ditch" offer are way too vague for me to understand. The details of all of this are not spelled out.

Nor do I understand the reference to Nel's "list of amounts" or the implied discounting of those amounts. I would need to see the arithmetic to make sense out of that.

I'm not second-guessing you, Mac. I just don't have the information or the history that you have with this, so it's hard for me to make sense of it.

Clearly, the moratorium on leopard hunting was not Nel's fault. Nor was it yours. If he had been reasonable from the start, I'm sure that you two would have worked something out.

It's a shame that he had to be dragged kicking and whining even to this point.

Good luck with this - especially in collecting from Nel.

MAC,
Their response is halarious to me! I would want to know what his expenses were? And how on earth, the Ph can claim some sort of damages "from the internet" for compensation! The only way he can claim damage is if he can prove people aren't booking with him directly from your story, and if you wrote something on this forum that isn't true!

Which I hope you haven't.

I WOULD TELL THEM, "Lets go to the committee."

Thats ridiculus... MR. BOET NEL..... I hope you starve!

Mac,

I started to reply to your update last night but considering the whiskey or three that I had consumed over the course of the evening, I thought better of it. I have to say, Mr. Grellmann's reasoning’s for not awarding you all your deposit still confuse me. You booked a leopard hunt and a leopard hunt could not be accommodated. I don't buy the statement "it is costumary to only apply 4-6 weeks before a client arrives, for a permit", but let's just accept it for now. I would then put forth the argument that it is customary to refund a client's deposit when an outfitter can't deliver a hunt. While it may have been painful, it was done by other respectable outfitters last year.

As for Mr. Grellmann's final parting words regarding Boet's reputation, what exactly are you suppose to take from that? Give me a break. I'll leave it at that.

I too understand you wanting to put this behind you, but this decision by NAPHA looks to be nothing but a weak compromise.

I can not believe what I am reading here!!! If I am correct the client booked a LEOPARD hunt and not a plains game hunt.... He was forced into a plains game hunt and now he loses 50% of his deposit... This is putting the Namibian hunting industry in real bad light... I have gotten in big trouble with NAPHA for comments I made about them on this site. But this is BAD from them...

NAPHA I know you read this but you need to make sure this man gets his money back, this is what NAPHA told all outfitters in a newsletter... I bet if it was me that did this it would be a different outcome????

Corne Kruger
Omujeve Hunting Safaris

quote:

Originally posted by corne Omujeve:
I can not believe what I am reading here!!! If I am correct the client booked a LEOPARD hunt and not a plains game hunt.... He was forced into a plains game hunt and now he loses 50% of his deposit... This is putting the Namibian hunting industry in real bad light...

You are absolutly right that is a shame and puts a very very bad light on Napha.

NAPHA seems to be run by people who should not be in charge of any orgenization.

THis, and the previous screw up about reporting foreign clients to their governments!!?

Sadly, their action has a bad effect on PHs operating in Namibia.

Why don't the members of NAPHA do something about this?

The logic of their response made no sense to me.

Its really starting to sound like NAPHA is run by a bunch of anti-hunters, they are trying to run all the hunters off with all the decisions they make.

quote:

Mr. Mac Jenkins please also take into consideration that considerable damage was done to Mr. Nel's reputation through various actions (e.g. Internet etc.)

Makes you wonder whether these "damages" found their way into Nel's reimbursible expenses.

quote:

NAPHA seems to be run by people who should not be in charge of any orgenization.

THis, and the previous screw up about reporting foreign clients to their governments!!?

Sadly, their action has a bad effect on PHs operating in Namibia.

Why don't the members of NAPHA do something about this?

A year or two ago I put Boet Nel on my list of a purveyor of hunts never to use after I read about a very bad experience with him on Accurate Reloading. A search probably would have pulled up that thread. Also, before I would book with anyone, I would have to hear some recommendations on one of the forums before I would lay out a bunch of money.

I was seriously thinking about hunting in Namibia next year but it seems their prices are up, there is the leopard fiasco and you can't use handguns; South Africa again is looking better and better.

I am a NAPHA member.

We like to call and sell ourselves among others as 'professionals', 'ambassadors of Namibia and our association', 'honest businessmen' and 'gentlemen'.
Now when I do business with a 'gentleman' and he can not deliver the goods, because the supplier has problems, he will offer me another product obviously because he does't want to disappoint me. Should I decline because I am only interrested in the originale goods, he will refund me in full and apologize for the inconvenience.
This is plain and simple what a 'gentleman' would do !

I have not read the whole thread. It seems to have ballooned pretty quickly! Has no one mentioned that the lack of the leopard hunt was outside the control of the outfitter?
Peter

Peter,
Yeah thats been brought up...however, Mac said fine, give me my money back, not, I'm going to sue you because I can't have a leopard. I'm sure he lost money on flights/time off etc.

The outfitter can't deliver the hunt, he's in breach of the contract, not the other way around!

I WOULD NOT ACCEPT. I WOULD TAKE IT TO THE COMMITTEE. RIGHT IS RIGHT.

A leopard hunt was booked and appears the outfitter cannot provide it. The client should be fully refunded and not forced into a hunt he did not intend to book.

I believe NAPHA's response casts an unwarrented pall upon all Namibian outfitters as a result. How unfortunate, there are many good outfits there who will perhaps suffer as a result.

quote:

Originally posted by Helgaard van der Vyver:
I am a NAPHA member.

We like to call and sell ourselves among others as 'professionals', 'ambassadors of Namibia and our association', 'honest businessmen' and 'gentlemen'.
Now when I do business with a 'gentleman' and he can not deliver the goods, because the supplier has problems, he will offer me another product obviously because he does't want to disappoint me. Should I decline because I am only interrested in the originale goods, he will refund me in full and apologize for the inconvenience.
This is plain and simple what a 'gentleman' would do !

Worded like a person I would want to do business with.....

i have hunted RSA(3 times), Moz.(twice),Tz. Zim, Bots. was considering a Namibian hunt next year-FORGET IT!!! if this is the best NAPHA can do in protecting paying customers-ain't no way.

I wonder how many people just in this treat alone has said they will not hunt Namibia because of this, THANKS NAPHA for protecting your members...

jdollar,

It is unfortunate that you will never experience Namibia... It is a fantastic hunting destination.

Well said Helgaard!!! That is what a true gentlemen would do...

When they closed leopard hunting last year I refunded ALL my future leopard hunters... We had to wait and see what happens and it would not be right to keep the clients hanging while they could go somewhere else to hunt a leopard!!

quote:

Originally posted by corne Omujeve:
Well said Helgaard!!! That is what a true gentlemen would do...

When they closed leopard hunting last year I refunded ALL my future leopard hunters... We had to wait and see what happens and it would not be right to keep the clients hanging while they could go somewhere else to hunt a leopard!!

I am glad to hear that you did the right thing. It is too bad that NAPHA did not direct all their PH to do this.

This is now twice that Mr. Neil's name has been involved in a negative thread. Both times it has been clear that he has a real problem letting go of money that he believed would be coming into his pocket.

He seems to have a feeling of entitlement to his clients money.

It appears that some would like brief a re-cap on what has gone on. I will try to quickly give a rundown of what went on.

Feb 9th 2008 Book hunt with short written contract for a Leopard Hunt with Hounds (no plainsgame contracted) . $4580 Deposit. Hunt to Start June 27th 2009 through July 10th 2009.

Have some other communications with them in the mean time about adding plainsgame to the Leopard hunt. Told no need to contract anything on the plains game. And that they could just add it on my hunt once successful on the leopard. Did send emails asking to verify what trophy fees would be and what possible packages there are on plainsgame.

Plan Flights in the mean time.

June 15th-16th 2009 (11 to 12 days before hunt starts) I read on AR about the Leopard Moritorium. Call and email Boet Nel to confirm that they did indeed have my permit. Replied back to me that they have not heard of the Moritorium.

June 17th 2009 Received email from them that Leopard application did not go through. They sent it in on the 12th they said in an email.
Obviously at this point I am little devastated by this. Flight is less than one week away. Decide at last the minute to try and make a new deal to go with my buddy that is going on his first Africa trip. Also learn at this time that Boet Nel had lost his tribal concession where the hunt was to take place because of a contract squabble he recently had with the local government. (One of the main reasons we booked with him, my friend was adamant that he did not want to hunt ranches.) Unable to strike a deal that will work for the both of us.

June 18th 2009 Send email because we can’t come to a last ditch try at making a deal on a hunt I indicate I need to bow out. I ask that he please credit my down payment to my buddy. We also have a phone call at this time and he says that he can roll over my credit to a hunt next year when they open the hunting again. He said he is going to send me an email with what he proposes.

June 22nd 2009 Receive email from Boet with some pricing for a may 2010 Leopard hunt. See some small increases in price but that is to be somewhat to be expected. He does include my full $4580 as a deposit on the hunt

June 22nd 2009 About 2 hours later I receive an updated email saying he forgot to deduct some costs from my cancelled hunt. He is deducting $400 for pre-baiting. (Yes pre-baiting he said he did on a Leopard that he was unable to obtain a permit for just 2 weeks before my hunt, please also keep in mind he had my deposit for 15 months. He said you could not get a permit more than 4 to 6 weeks before the hunt, which I later find out is not correct) and $1875 in PH salary. He was to be my PH, he did not hunt my friend, he used a free lance for my buddy and he went off to set up a new concession he just received in auction to prepare for some upcoming clients

So essentially things start to head down hill from here. He says it is my duty to sell the remainder of my deposit if I wish. I meet up with him in Reno and we exchange some words. Thanks to a few here on AR they help push the issue through NAPHA. Not that they are to expedient in anything they have done for me but I think they are putting some pressure on Boet Nel.

Let me know if any would like some more detail.
Thanks,
Mac