Any progress yet?

No word back yet...

No word back??

Are you ever going to post his name so nobody else get's screwed by this clown??

correct no word back. His last email said he was going to be in the field for two weeks.

McKay,

Not trying to pile on, but your PH definitely should have had those permits in advance. We do lots of leopard hunts with hounds in Namibia and we had all our permits for the season well in advance.

I hope you get your refund.

mr mckay - i believe you are a dealing with this matter in the way a gentleman should, however you are dealing with a scoundral

McKay:
I really appreciate how you've protected your friend's hunt. Loyalty for a buddy is a great virtue. I hope no P.H. would ever stoop so low, but by not yet making demands, you've given the P.H. no excuse (however lame or uncalled for) to get back at you through another. Thumbs up!

If he is a PH in Namibia there is no way that he is away from a phone for 2 weeks unless he is in the Caprivi. He is full of shit and I still can't understand why you won't expose him here...as I said in a past reply, "He can't make this right, he has already screwed you royally!". Don't you get it??

It bothers me to see this happening to you.

Leopardtrack- You are correct about phone service.I was there last year and traveled from Windhoek through Katima Mullilo on up to Salambala Conservancy and Kasika. The only time I lost cell coverage on my regular AT&T cell phone was for a short time in Kasika.

From north to south and at almost all points in between I could reach home with no trouble. This guy is avoiding because he does not want to deal with the client.

I think it is time to contact NAPHA and ask for help.

Doc,
I don't know why McKay is pussy-footing around this guy

Wolfgar, back up.

It's McKays money, his friend in the field and his call.

You're right, but I just feel sorry for the guy.

McKay, I owe you an apology for the rhetoric in a few of my reply's here.
You are being a gentleman for the way you are handling yourself in this situation and I wish you luck. I hope you know that my comments were directed at your PH and not to you.
I have dealt with alot of PH's and I can tell you that, to the good ones, their reputation is everything to them. They live or die on their good name, and won't last long in the business if they screw their clients. Their business grows by building a base of loyal clients who won't hunt with anyone else. This is how they survive in the long run.
That said, again I wish you luck and hope that you get your deposit back and can enjoy your leopard hunt elsewhere.

Take Care!

Yes his email said that he was leaving on the 29th to the Caprivi for two weeks. My friend that is in the hunting camps now will be back one week from today. I am anxious to hear the details of his hunt and what comments he has heard about my cancellation so I know how to proceed. And yes Leopardtrack I do understand that he has screwed me royaly. I will wait for the outfitter to get back with me and give then another oportunity to make it right. If what he comes back with is not right I will definetly expose who he is, and yes they do come to the Reno show and I think possibly the Dallas show as well. If he does not make this right I think I would rather expose him to make sure that no one here gets tied up with him than get my money back.

McKay:

A measured and reasonable approach, me thinks.

Dang, that is a tough situation.

For what it is worth, more than one ph got caught without Leopard permits this year. I have heard stories of a couple others. These are good guys who just didn't get the permit very far ahead of time.

How they handled it afterward is how you should judge them, not the fact that they waited to get a permit then got caught with no notice at all that the season was shut down.

I know one of the ph's refunded all the money and still had to pay his ph because he scheduled him to hunt.

Good luck McKay.

In all actuality I am not that mad they did not have the permit. They have not closed Leopard like this in the past so how where they to know. I am however mad because of a few reasons, they want to charge me for the PH and the baiting, and then they told me in an email that they could not apply for the permit until 4-6 weeks prior to the hunt because of ministry requirements, which is obviously not true and they are trying to cover their ass. Then just the simple fact that none of this was my fault that the hunt was cancelled, how in their right mind could they think that I should in some way be responsible for a lost deposit is beyond me.

Just wondering how you made out with your PH?

Sorry to hear about your issues.

Just a word of warning, if you post the PH's name, it is about 100% certainty that you will be attacked as this and that by his friends, and maybe even attacked by the PH as an oddball or cross-dresser....

Good luck with NAPHA - I eventually- 2 years - received a refund from a PH I had an issue with.

I can't imagine any way he can assert you lose your deposit- I hope he didn't spend the money already-!

Best of luck and we are all pulling for a good outcome.

This is clearly a very bad deal. The leopard closure was a big surprise, but it probably shouldn't have been; Namibia's leopard quota has been filling up earlier and earlier, requiring them to dip into the next year's quota in order to export leopards taken the previous year. My guess is they were issuing permits without counting them against their CITES quota of 250--but there are more leopards and more good leopard hunters, but still a fixed export quota. This doesn't make it easier for guys like McKay who got caught. There are still permits out there that were issued well in advance; buddy of mine has a permit in hand for a hunt in October. Perhaps some operators saw it coming, perhaps some are quicker at the paperwork than others (probably both). Like everybody else, I'd love to know who this guy is (hope he isn't someone I know!!), but I think McKay is playing a good hand so far. I do recommend he contact NAPHA to seek resolution. They're a good group.
McKay, I sure wish you luck. As you have generously stated, the lack of the permit isn't the issue; it's how your guy is dealing with it.

OK I have given Boet Nel Hunting Safaris enough time to make this right. He agrees that it sounds like the future of hunting Leopard over hounds in Namibia does not look good. He maintains that I should have still come on the hunt and hunted in an area that I did not book and should have just came and hunted plainsgame. When I booked the hunt with him and afterwards also there was talk of potential other plainsgame available. As I stated earlier in this thread and to him I was only interested in hunting plainsgame secondary to my primary Leopard hunt. He is still saying that I should come hunt Buffalo or something else with them to use up my deposit. Also the PH fee that he wants to charge me for was for him, he was to be my PH. So with much regret that this could not have turned out differently I felt obligated to the community to post their names. I feel I have been extremley patient in dealing with him. I have been dealing with Boet Nel and his wife Karen. He says that it is up to me to sell the hunt to someone else if I choose. I would assume less his Pre-bait and PH salary he wants to deduct. I know others on here have had good hunts and I have read favorable reviews and one bad. I hope that I have all the facts correct with my posts and have not made a mistake, and I understand that there are two sides to every story but to me the situation is just ridiculous. However this is my experience, so if needed I suppose let the flames begin.

Mac

I fail to understand why you should get less than a full refund. I'm reminded of one of my favorite lines from Big Trouble in Little China.

quote:

As a few of you may have read in the other post in regards to Leopard being shut down in Naminia for the season I was schedueled to go on a Leopard hunt leaving this Wednesday the 24th of June. My contract with the outfitter is written as a Leopard with Hounds hunt with no plainsgame mentioed on it. I put down about a $4500 deposit on this hunt. Now that Leopard is off the menu the outfitter is saying that they cannot give me my deposit back and that I should come hunt plainsgame instead. I'm am really not interested in hunting plainsgame only. The contract says there is a 40% non-refundable deposit. However I would think this should be non-refundable if I cancelled the hunt not because of the circumstances. Please let me know your opinions on this......Thanks

From the above I would understand that you are correct.

That if YOU cancelled, you have to pay 40% of your deposit.

In this case, you did NOT cancel, but he altered the conditions of the hunt.

You should get a full refund without any question.

Need to get ahold of NAPHA right away and state your case. I agree with those that are saying you are entitled to a full refund. You did not cancel your hunt. It was canceled WITHOUT YOU HAVING ANY SAY IN THE MATTER.

This is at least the second time this outfitter has had a problem on this board. Does anyone see a pattern developing?

Sent off an email to NAPHA to see if there is anything that they can do. I gave them just a brief description of the situation to see if they can help.....

Mac

Good luck, McKay.

This really stinks. No way would I ever consider hunting w/Boet now.

Please continue to keep us posted.

Regards,
Scott

McKay

You have handled yourself in this matter in a manner above reproach.

As you know I had quite a problem with Boet Nel, and took a lickin' from his fans here.

I recovered some money, not all I was due, and will never be compensated for the hell he put my wife through- first time is Africa, treated rudely, and threatened to be left alone in camp in the middle of Namibia unless we paid his crazy demands.

Itis true that several members of the board here hunted with him and were satisfied, which is great, because we all want our fellow hunters to enjoy their trips, but when things go wrong consistently with someone.....

I found him to be slippery and in my opinion less than first rate in his business dealings.

I think all here should avoid this guy, and warn others, and show support for McKay in this matter.

Boet Nel just receives a gushing, glowing, butt licking promotion in the Hunting Report received today, written by Barbara Crown. Who'd a thunk it?

McKay- You have been given great advice on NAPHA. I'm quite sure they will treat you in a satifactory manner. I do know a couple of folks there and they take their association seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
Boet Nel just receives a gushing, glowing, butt licking promotion in the Hunting Report received today, written by Barbara Crown. Who'd a thunk it?

When everything goes well a glowing report seems to be the norm. It's when things go south we see the true person. I have added his name to my list of people I will not consider for anything.

I must add that I booked a Tanzanian hunt with a PH/Outfitter I had previously had a great hunt with. As things turned out the hunt could not be put together as planned. My deposit was returned without my requesting it. Guess who I will be booking with

Will never be doing business with boet nel

the old saying is "fool me once-shame on you. fool me twice-shame on me". 2 extremely negative experiences with the same guy= look elsewhere. if you can't fulfill a contract, REFUND THE MONEY.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:

When everything goes well a glowing report seems to be the norm. It's when things go south we see the true person.

In the two hunts that went belly-up with this outfitter it seems that he tried to more or less retain the expected profit. I would really like to hear him defend his position on this.

When I asked them how they thought this was rigtht to not give me a refund based on they were not able to provide the hunt that was agreed upon, he just came back and said that the Hunters agreement clearly stated that the deposit was non-refundable. So I would assume with this thinking they would feel that it is right to take dozens of deposits from hunters and never provide any of the hunts and keep the deposits.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
When I asked them how they thought this was rigtht to not give me a refund based on they were not able to provide the hunt that was agreed upon, he just came back and said that the Hunters agreement clearly stated that the deposit was non-refundable. So I would assume with this thinking they would feel that it is right to take dozens of deposits from hunters and never provide any of the hunts and keep the deposits.

The deposit is non-refundable if he performs or is capable of performing the contract. I am not a Namibian lawyer, but his interpretation seems unsupportable.

This is not legal advice. You shoud consult a licensed professional.

Nel is behaving like a crook who takes money under false pretenses.

Thanks for letting us know his name, McKay, and good luck recovering your deposit.

I have a suggestion, maybe use some, all or none.

Some real African hunting heavyweights have already posted on this thread and are aware of the situation, and every member here is a potential client and center of influence to other Africa hunters.

For everyone that believes McKay is being treated unfairly, why don't you write to Boet Nel, tell him who you are, and as appropriate, that you hunt regularly, refer people, etc., and that you are aware of the current situation (and may want to mention my previous issues with him ie two strikes) and say you are spreading the word to avoid him to all your hunt friends, SCI friends, Dallas Safari Club friends etc., and that he can really needs to do the proper thing and refund McKay's $$$$$$.

You may want to mention that you will see him at SCI/Dallas and spread the word that he should be avoided.

His email:

boetnel@iway.na

You may also want to cc NAPHA and/or write to NAPHA seperately (I am forwarding my email to Boet Nel to them with a statement) that this is the second issue you have heard of from Boet Nel from the hunting community, and that you implore NAPHA to take some action to protect McKay, future clients, and the reputation of Namibian hunting.

Their email:

napha@mweb.com.na

You may also want to request the email of the Ombudsman, Volker Grellman and that of the MET Director, Ben Beytell, and write to them as well.

I think we really need to back up McKay, he has been patient, let Boet Nel sandbag him with "being away to the Caprivi" for two weeks, and even telling McKay to find someone else to sell his hunt to. The only way this Boet Nel will respond is with maximum pressure.

I would like to know f anyone is writing, maybe you can let us know.

If it's not to late, make sure your friend leaves him nothing for a tip and tell him why.

Then let him know that you plan on standing outside his booth at the SCI convention and telling every prospective client how he failed to deliver the hunt you booked then refused to refund your deposit.

It would also be great if every AR member who attends the SCI or Dallas show stopped by his table and told him that you will never book with him and how you've told all your hunting friends that he's a crook.

McKay- any progress?

Let us know.

Damn, I just got caught up with this little situation. I hope things work out in your favor McKay.

Scratch another off the list!!!

No progress.....have not heard nothing back from NAPHA yet......

Mac