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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting A standardGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| Administrator |
Sending a PM to another hunter to complain about HIS hunt is the lowest of the low. | |||
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One of Us |
AMEN!!! I hope to someday be able to afford a Cape Buffalo hunt. I have been saving and keep driving that 10 year old Chevy pickup instead of buying a new one so that I can afford to hunt SA. Maybe I should get a peer review before of my buffalo to see if it's worthy to post here. Actually, I am in my sixties and I will start to care what people think when they start paying my bills. DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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One of Us |
As ethical hunters it is our responsibility to call out the charlatans and criminals. Not so much the uninformed hunters themselves but rather the unscrupulous outfitters and PHs that know better. Would someone please post the picture of the  JUVENILE ELEPHANT  that was posted on AR along with a glowing hunt report sometime back. That is exactly why we must be able to call out the crooks! Apparently some here need to be informed or reminded of what our concern really is.  Perhaps it takes more than a couple hunts in RSA to understand the dynamic.  I support Andrew's intent 100%!  Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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| One of Us |
Yup. The problems was with the PH not the client. | |||
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| One of Us |
No the problem is judging other hunters. It was a buff cow hunt and to those hunters it was a trophy hunt for them. You may have what trophys mean to you in your head but we all look at that differently. The outfitter did nothing wrong and did a post about some happy hunters he had. He did a legal hunt in SA that does not meet what some of you think is a trophy hunt. Well get over yourselves and let hunters hunt what they wish and call it what it means to them. One day we will be at a point of no return with less people hunting and people wanting to stop hunting. But some still just like to attack other hunters because they don't see the same thing in the hunt done. Time to grow up and stop bad mouthing legal hunts or calling them bad because the word trophy is used in a way you dont like. | |||
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Have not read every post but I looked at the pics and thought they were cows. Was I mistaking? I can understand if they were young bulls taken from a free range herd. I myself wouldn't want too hunt buffalo under a fence. But these were ranch buffalo and that was stated so I don't understand the problem. We as hunters need too stand together not bickering back and forth. We will be our own downfall if we don't stand together. | |||
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Just curious bcap. Do you have any financial interest in any buff cow hunts? Booking agent, operator, etc? I have shot plenty of cows ( on purpose for bait, rations, etc.). I see no problem with it. The only problem I see if that the operator filed a report like it was some fantastic trophy hunt. If he had initially referred to it as a cow cull hunt, I would not have thought twice about it. | |||
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I had nothing to do with the cow hunt. I do help a SA outfitter out but not sure what that has to do with this at all. Again because you or anyone else does not think of this hunt as a trophy hunt its not because some think that. I guess it does not matter that the hunter who did the hunt thought it was. Again how hunters judging other hunters help anything is beyond me but I guess since I help a SA outfitter some can make there idea right now. Lets divide up more as hunters and make this about guys who like SA and those that don't it will help us all as hunters. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think one of the greatest threats to hunting is declining numbers of hunters. Those that want to call out PH's and outfitters need to find a way to do it that doesn't crush the new hunter in the process. I distinctly remember my first whitetail buck as having the greatest high and lows within minutes. When I got him back to camp a couple of old cusses started making comments about him being young and I should have let him walk. The land owner (who I had just met earlier that day) walks over puts his hand on my shoulder, congratulates me, and said that he beats his first buck. If he had not stepped in I may have turned away from hunting. DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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One of Us |
I must have missed reading some of the posts, but I had trouble deciding if it was the SA outfitter in the original post and two other PH's working for the same company talking up the hunt or if two of the PH's working for the outfitters company were two of the hunters? In any event it looked to me like both the outfitter and the other two immediately after were obviously pumping what a good time the three buff cows in three days had been as marketing hype........ whether they were the PH's on the hunt or they were actually harvesting the cows from the fenced concession. Like I said, maybe I missed something? ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think you have it wrong. I am happy for the hunters. I made no comment about the hunters. My issue is the way the PH portrayed it which amounts to nothing more than a marketing ploy. If I wanted to hound the hunters, I would have done so on the other site. I posted nothing there. Nor do I intend to. You say you help an outfitter from the RSA. Are cow hunts involved? Just curious. | |||
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One of Us |
Are personal trophies now up for debate? If the situation isn't up to your standards, or doesn't reach the inches you so require, then generally it's best to be quiet or congratulate, and consider yourself that much more fortunate than some others. | |||
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They do cow hunts as needed and take a few each year. Hell I may even have my son hunt one next trip because that is what I can afford. Not sure your point on this other they trying to say that I am only posting so for that reason. I speak for me and get sick of seeing guys jump on other guys reports like they did something wrong. That's why I posted here and on the thread there that started it all. Not sure why it is a big deal who started the thread on AH and for what reason. They did a legal hunt and hurt no one posting about it. What good comes from hunters talking shit about other hunters. Maybe it was for marketing and telling about hunts that guys enjoyed is a good way to do that. Then hunters can pick if a cow buff may work for them or not. Now maybe you should ask the same questions to the guy who started the post here. He have a reason for taking cheap shoots at SA outfits. Like maybe being a outfitter in another country. Now I already know the answer but wanted to show your point coming at me is a use less point. I was not making my comments only to you and did realize you did not put the hunters down but again putting down any part of a legal hunt does not help anyone but the anti hunters. Not sure why some people can not get past we all don't hunt the same or even need to agree on everything. But trashing legal hunting looks bad on us all so sometime saying nothing is best for all are rights as hunters. | |||
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I think that would be an excellent idea. A buff cow is just as hard a hunt and just as dangerous as any bull. That would be a big thrill for a kid. I know my kids loved their trips to Africa. | |||
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One of Us |
Those with little or no experience at the top tier of African hunting should shut up or just move on so the thick wallet elite can educate the poor on how, what or where they should hunt I hear you loud and clear.....I will move along ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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| Administrator |
Hunt in any form or shape, as long as it legal in that country. And tell anyone who complains to go to hell! | |||
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| One of Us |
hi jan i want to shoot 3 buffalo cows from the back of the cruiser with my 45/70 can you help me please. luan  | |||
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What dynamic are you talking about? | |||
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LOL..... I read the comments on AR and they made me laugh as they made fun of the people on here for the things they said. It is pretty comical. AR folks made fun of the AH guy for shooting immature bulls. The AH guys made fun of AR guys because they can't tell the difference between a bull and a cow. Pretty funny stuff. TV can't even make shows like this. But, it's pretty sad too. I post on both places. No dog in the race. Sometimes when men post on the internet they seem like old women. | |||
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What's wrong with a 45-70? | |||
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A friend of mine made me aware of this forum and that a a fellow PH and Outfitter was “bashing” me - I see that is the case. Andrew - its easy to jump to conclusions without allowing someone to respond. As a professional hunter, how are you not able to identify that they are old cows? Do you not know about sustainable hunting practices? All three are buffalo cows hunted legally with RSA clients in a Big5 reserve of just over 5000 ha near Hoedspruit. When cows get old and they no longer able to produce calves, we get tags to hunt them as it brings some additional income into a reserve rather than just let them just die. The meat was donated to a nearby Wild Dog, Lion and Cheetah Sanctuary that welcomed the meat with open arms. The clients enjoyed the thrill of a more affordable buffalo hunt and the sanctuary benefited from all the meat. Hope it clears it all up..? _____________________________ Adriaan Wepener | PH & Outfitter Professional Hunting Safari Company | |||
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| Administrator |
Adriaan, Welcome to AR. I copied below your post regarding this hunt that you have posted on www.africahunting.com. Anyone reading it - as I did - would get the impression that you were actually conducting a normal hunt, not a meat or cull hunt. The photos with your post are so small, and very hard for anyone to pass judgment on them. I am sure no one has anything against meat or cull hunts, I certainly don't. "...Hi All, we had a very successful long weekend. We had a client who initially booked one buffalo. He brought some of his friends along. We were fortunate to get his buff on day one - with two days sparing, one of his friends also decided he wanted a buff, we got it on the second day. With one more day to go, his other mate also decided he would like a buff. In the three days we managed to get all three buffs. We hunted in a Big5 reserve of 5000ha in size. Well done to the team on a great effort..." | |||
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| One of Us |
Not sure why he should need to spell out what kind of hunt is was. It could have been a meat hunt to the ph but a trophy hunt to the client. Why as hunters must we make stupid comments towards hunt we don't like. Who did the bad post help out or what was the goal of the bad post. If people would stop reading stuff into reports that is not there we as hunters would be better off. Gets old hearing about there just trying to weed out the bad apples from problems that happen a decade ago. Yes there maybe some bad apples in SA yet but I think there is some in zim and moz also along with all the other place. Lets start sticking together and bad mouth the anti's for all the wrong bs they say or do. | |||
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| Administrator |
You are right, of course, that no one is obliged to explain anything. But, if one leave a lot of questions up in the air, questions will be asked, as posting anything on an open Internet forum. | |||
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| One of Us |
What is the cost difference in South Africa to the hunter between a bull buffalo and a cow? As has been pointed out the buffalo hunt is the same. The difference is which animal you select from the herd to kill (exclusive of small area/put & take trigger pulling). | |||
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Do the names Dawie Groenwald or Out of Africa Adventurous Safaris mean anything to Ted Thorn or MD375? What about the immature elephant "trophy" pic? Nobody have it? Saeed? And for those who suffer from a lack of reading comprehension, I said nothing about the hunt mentioned in the OP, however, the comments in the hunt report, as Saeed indicated, are most assuredly misleading at best and purposefully deceitful at worst. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I guess some should read the post again. I did not read anything that said trophy buff hunt or 3 huge buff taken in 3 days. The report was about a fun hunt 3 guys did and some happy PH"S who feel they did a good job on the hunt. why some people have a problem with the report. First it is not a trophy in there eyes so that makes the report wrong. Next it happen in SA so someone must have got screwed or taken advantage of. Then because there was happy hunters with out taking some monster bull it can not be a good hunt. Some of you guys need to get a grip on yourself and realize your thoughts on this means nothing to must people. Learn that taking your cheap shoots does nothing to help hunting. Looking for examples of bad hunts that happen in SA just shows your true motive for trashing on the report. I know all hunts go perfect everywhere else it is just all those SA guys ruining hunting not you perfect people talking bad about hunts you don't like. I am just glad there is only a few of the perfect hunters around to shit on peoples reports or we may lose the right to hunt even faster. Maybe we should all read reports for what they are with out adding what we want to them to make them good or bad. | |||
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There's crooks in all countries.... Not just RSA... There was absolutely nothing deceitful about the post... To YOU and a few others a cow buff hunt may not mean anything but to a local SA client it is considered a hunt. Just because some of our guys don't have the cash to play in the big league does not make the hunt less valuable. A trophy is not only a male animal.... Each person has their own perspective of what a trophy means to them. So to say the outfitter misled the clients is pure and utter nonsense. All he said was they had a successful weekend. | |||
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Just to help me out. I'd like to know the answer to the question I saw posted about why PH's who are supposed to be experts at identifying animals and had the gall to jump to conclusions to condemn someone else's hunt, couldn't identify that these "bulls" were indeed "cows"???? that's the funniest thing about this silly thread. | |||
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| One of Us |
He states his clients hunted buffalo..Whats misleading? | |||
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| One of Us |
It's unfortunately, simply the way the AH post was written as well as a bit of "profiling" on practices that sometimes occur in South Africa. Right or wrong... Thankfully, the details support a jump to conclusions and this was indeed a meat hunt etc that almost all would agree are fantastic, fun, and result in fun for all. Myself, like others have shot cows either for bait (Lion) or for meat or fun. I think we all should support any legal proper hunting as we have enough challenges from Anti's... But lets also be honest and say we see all sorts of BS at times in South Africa that could at best be called dubious and misleading. Anything else would be disingenuous. One could absolutely mistake those pictures ( two especially ) for immature bulls. In retrospect the jump to judgement was misplaced in this instance...But was founded reasonably on many many past incidences that would be valid. Knowing that..most who posted might have simply clarified a bit for that reason. Lets not pretend that, unfortunately, deceptive marketing practices are not regularly employed in South Africa and PARTICULARLY in relation to "Dangerous Game" That is the root of the misunderstanding. | |||
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Hey Poyntman, I agree with what you posted. But, It is very sad that the folks who posted the negative slams against this hunt posted their silly drivel without knowing the details before doing so. It shows a level of childishness that gentlemen hunters should not stoop to. It also reveals that these "experts" aren't all that expert, doesn't it? Should these PH's go back to PH school so they could learn to identify the sex of animal? Now, is it not time for everyone that made these posts to be made fun of in the mean spirit in which they made their posts? Is it not time for each of them to apologize SINCERELY, instead of making "little boy" apologies where they merely acknowledge a "mistake" and try to, in a silly manner, insinuate that their own remarks were not their own fault, but the fault of South African PH's in general because all of them offer only canned hunts? GROW UP people. Quit being children on a forum that is about grownup cultured Gentleman's Safari hunting. I don't even know the guys that were being chided, I don't really know if I can identify female buffs from immature male buffs, but, then, I'm not an "expert PH", am I? I do know, though, that if I was to attack someone or purposefully humiliate someone, I'd have the balls to "man up" and sincerely apologize without making excuses when I am made aware that I was wrong...... especially if I came out looking as silly as the people making the accusations on this thread. blessings, rphguy | |||
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| Administrator |
I went over and read the original thread again, and at no time was it mentioned that it was anything but a proper buffalo hunt - in which case Lionhunter is right. It was misleading, and I think from the threats Andrew got for bringing the subject up, it might have been misleading on purpose to make it look, like a trophy hunt. PHs from South Africa who are complaining about this, and telling some to grow up, might take that advice themselves, and stop giving the South African hunting industry a bad name. Again, hunt in any shape or form you wish, as long as it is legal. But say so. Telling it as it is. Do not try to make it what it was most definitely not. This is no difference than farm bread lion "hunts" portrayed as wild lion hunts. I have nothing against farm bread lion hunts - in fact, I support them - as long as they are sold as such. Nothing makes laugh more than someone posting a report saying he was hunting in South Africa, when he was asked if he wanted to shoot a lion that is terrorizing the neighbours - and our intrepid hunter had to come to the rescue and shoot that dangerous lion to save them  | |||
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| One of Us |
3 pictures with 3 hunters posing with Buff cows shows that this PH needs to work a lot harder on his misrepresentation and misleading skills. He will never pull off a proper hood winking unless he does a better job hiding his tracks. This post is Hilarious! Too many members jump on line with too many Scotches, methinks. | |||
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Moderator |
In all fairness, the photos posted are so small it is hard to make out any detail at all. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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then why did they not ask a question rather than shooting their mouths off? I've heard it many times that "it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt." the OP and many others made mean-spirited posts, the least they can do is make a real apology. | |||
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| One of Us |
It's what a gentleman would do when he makes a mistake. | |||
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| Administrator |
Why would he make an apology?? Andrew has not done anything wrong. He raised a point which could have been avoided if the original poster did not make this meat hunt as a trophy hunt!! The original post is posted above, read it, what do you understand?? | |||
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