I don't have the link handy but I got an email from SCI early this morning saying SCI will no longer accept canned lion hunting trophies as legitimate and will not allow exhibitors to advertise them, effective date is right after this convention ends.

Anyone else get this?

Yep, got it just this morning!

Wow. I am impressed. I didn't think SCI had the backbone.

Hmmm...sounds like SCI just closed the barn door long after the horses were gone.

Here is the mail from this morning:

Contact: S. Comus
Email: scomus@safariclub.org

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


SCI Adopts Policy On Captive Bred Lions
Considering that the practice of the captive breeding of lions for the purpose of hunting has doubtful value to the conservation of lions in the wild, and considering that such hunting is not consistent with SCI's criteria for estate hunting, the SCI Board has adopted the following policy:

• SCI opposes the hunting of African lions bred in captivity.
• This policy takes effect on February 4, 2018 and applies to hunts taking place after adoption of this policy and to any Record Book entry related to such hunts.
• SCI will not accept advertising from any operator for any such hunts, nor will SCI allow operators to sell hunts for lions bred in captivity at the SCI Annual Hunters' Convention.

Safari Club International - First For Hunters is the leader in protecting the freedom to hunt and in promoting wildlife conservation worldwide. SCI's approximately 200 Chapters represent all 50 of the United States as well as 106 other countries. SCI's proactive leadership in a host of cooperative wildlife conservation, outdoor education and humanitarian programs, with the SCI Foundation and other conservation groups, research institutions and government agencies, empowers sportsmen to be contributing community members and participants in sound wildlife management and conservation. Visit the home page www.SafariClub.org, or call (520) 620-1220 for more information.
International Headquarters Tucson, Arizona · Washington, District of Columbia · Ottawa, Canada
www.SafariClub.org

###

Just walked by TAM booth - they are selling canned lion hunts at SCI.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Just walked by TAM booth - they are selling canned lion hunts at SCI.



Mike

“Policy takes effect on Feb. 4”

Does this mean ALL High Fence Hunting will be Banned by S.C.I. in the future?

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
Does this mean ALL High Fence Hunting will be Banned by S.C.I. in the future?

Canned lion shooting, and high fence hunting are very different issues.

I think we made a difference. An open dialogue, judged by the market place of ideas still works; sometimes.

Now whoever got them to do this, get them to adopt Dr. Lane's huntable lion definition. Never too late to do the righy thing.

Now, time to really put your money where your principles are. Do not allow those who sell such shoots on the convention floor.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

Now, time to really put your money where your principles are. Do not allow those who sell such shoots on the convention floor.

+1

Mixed emotions on this. 100% against canned unethical hunting of any kind and my best outlook was for the industry and organizations to give a clear definition of canned hunting, put the requirements into place and be heavily inspected and enforced. Looks like we are beyond that now.

As I read all captive bred lion hunting is being considered canned hunting. I don’t think I can agree on that if one is telling me a lion ranging on 2,000 plus acres of fenced property with sufficient amount of cover and escape is canned hunting. So when is it not, 5,000 acres, 10,000? If the answer is never then what has happened is the door has now been opened for all hunting of all animals on captive fenced areas.

Some will say a lion is different but to an anti person their goal is to end all and they will use the same arguements for plains animals and now we have shot our own selves in the foot by setting this precedent.

No concessions should have been made between wild lions or captive bred lions. The focus should have been on the acceptable size of range, cover and hunting method. Then enforce the regulations and hold a few unethical outfitters accountable.

quote:

Originally posted by Sniper:
Mixed emotions on this. 100% against canned unethical hunting of any kind and my best outlook was for the industry and organizations to give a clear definition of canned hunting, put the requirements into place and be heavily inspected and enforced. Looks like we are beyond that now.

As I read all captive bred lion hunting is being considered canned hunting. I don’t think I can agree on that if one is telling me a lion ranging on 2,000 plus acres of fenced property with sufficient amount of cover and escape is canned hunting. So when is it not, 5,000 acres, 10,000? If the answer is never then what has happened is the door has now been opened for all hunting of all animals on captive fenced areas.

Some will say a lion is different but to an anti person their goal is to end all and they will use the same arguements for plains animals and now we have shot our own selves in the foot by setting this precedent.

No concessions should have been made between wild lions or captive bred lions. The focus should have been on the acceptable size of range, cover and hunting method. Then enforce the regulations and hold a few unethical outfitters accountable.

X2

Did they provide a definition?

quote:

Canned lion shooting, and high fence hunting are very different issues

Not to The Anti's.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:

quote:

Canned lion shooting, and high fence hunting are very different issues

Not to The Anti's.

Ummm, maybe a little. But overall I would agree with that!

I would say if the high fence area has a self sustaining population it would make a difference, especially to those who are ambivalent about hunting in general. To HSUS, no. But remember, after they take away our hunting their next mission will be to take away your steak. Then everyone will be asking "Where is the beef?"

Let's face it, raising an animal to be released and shot a few days later is not likely to garner much support. We talk about hunting as being so much more than the kill, but canned hunting is really only about the kill.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Just walked by TAM booth - they are selling canned lion hunts at SCI.

Mike

What a bloody joke!

SCI is instrumental in creating these sick "circles"!

Where most animals entered in there are shot in a small enclosure after they have been captured and moved by crooked criminals pretending to be professional hunters.

All one has to do is look at the enormous number of top entries into the SCI record book from some of these in South Africa.

Those of us who have been hunting all our lives, know that top trophies do not grow on trees!

The South African crooks deliver these to order, for the uncouth idiots to glorify themselves in one or more of these SCI "circles"!

I have absolutely no faith in SCI any more.

And as has been mentioned, what are they going to do with other hunts on small farms?

Both in South Africa and the US??

Just curious. How will this be enforced? A hunter comes back with a signed and noratrized statement from the PH in South Africa that the lion was free ranging. Who can prove otherwise? There will be ways around this and, as SCI puts SCI frist (and money) they will allow this in a quiet manner so they can continue their revenue intake and also look politically correct in the public's eyes.
Cal

I think if the lions would be living in a 50000 hectare pen as part of a reasonable self-sustaining pride, then it could be compared to deer, elk or kudu estate hunting.

But I struggle with a lion being released into a pen and shot by some “hero” the next day.
Is it just the fact that if someone can’t afford to hunt a free range lion this would be a “good 2nd option” so the shooter can say he killed a lion.
Why would you want to claim a record book entry in such case anyway, it really does not mean much.
The experience of hunting a free range lion can never be compared with shooting one in a pen.

By all means, still do it but don’t claim record book status for this.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Slider:

quote:Canned lion shooting, and high fence hunting are very different issues


Not to The Anti's.

It will be great when hunters understand that the true anti's feel the exact same way about ALL HUNTING!

Does not matter to them if iot is 5 acres or 5 million acres, they want it all stopped!

All that is being accomplished with these little concessions on the part of hunters, is merely delaying the inevitable.

It is hard to believe that peope in this day and time honestly believe that if they make concessions like this, the forces that oppose them will cut them some slack and allow them to keep doing something the anti's oppose.

How many honestly believe the anti's will stop trying to get all lion hunting of any kind stopped, simply because a couple of hunting organizations have condemmed one specific type of hunting?

All the actions of DSC and SCI is going to accomplish is to strengthen the anti's efforts, they have been shown quite clearly that hunters will give ground in an attempt to hold on to what they believe will placate the anti's.

quote:

Originally posted by GunsCore:
I don't have the link handy but I got an email from SCI early this morning saying SCI will no longer accept canned lion hunting trophies as legitimate and will not allow exhibitors to advertise them, effective date is right after this convention ends.
Anyone else get this?

That SCI will no longer accept any canned entries is immaterial - pen-raised Lions will continue being raised and continue being shot and the anti-crowd will still cry foul (and its them that one needs to worry about more than SCI).

SCI were aware of their announcement well before the Convention (certainly wasn't hatched overnight) and had they been serious with their intentions, would/should have released this information prior and rejected the canned Lion operators from participating and peddling their goods - same goes for DSC.

For as long as the Lion breeders exist, their industry is far too lucrative for it to fold up and the hunting of pen-raised Lions will remain alive and well through legal loopholes - money talks, BS walks!

Watch the space for a sudden increase in "High-fenced free-ranging Lion hunts".

This is SCI’s definition of estate hunting:

The Record Book Committee of Safari Club International defines an “Estate” category in the Record Book of Big Game Animals as follows:An “Estate” will be any property or area that uses an artificial or unnatural restrictive barrier, in most cases a fence, which restricts or confines the movement of game animals.The restrictive barrier may consist of multiple sides, or only one side.If the artificial barrier is used in conjunction with a natural barrier such as a bluff, canyon, river, lake or other natural barriers, then the enclosed area is also considered an “Estate”. Any game animal taken within the confines of such an “Estate” will be considered for the “Estate Taken” category of that species. Any game animal taken that was raised, or kept for a long period of time, within the confines of an “Estate” and then intentionally or unintentionally releasedoutside of the “Estate” will only be considered for the “Estate Taken” category of that species. If an animal does not fall into this category it will be considered free range. SCI Fair Chase Requirements for Record Book Entries of Estate Animals are as follows. An Estate animal must meet the following criteria in order to be qualified for entry into the Record Book. The animal must have freely resided on the hunted property and the area to be hunted for six months, or longer. The animal must be part of a breeding herd that is resident on the hunted property.The operators of the hunted property must provide freely available and ample amounts of cover, food and water at all times. The hunted property must provide escape cover that allows the animals to elude hunters for extended periods of time and multiple occurrences. Escape cover, in the form of rugged terrain or topography, and/or dense thickets or stands of woods, shall collectively comprise at least 50% of the hunted property. The animal must exhibit its natural flight/ survival instincts. No zoo animal, exhibited animal or tame animal may be considered for entry into the Record Book. Hunting methods employed cannot include driving, herding or chasing the animal to the hunter. SCI supports prevention, management, and research of all wildlife diseases as it pertains to high fenced and non-high fenced hunting areas.

I am glad to see SCI and DSC take a stand on these issues. Surprisingly it is SCI that went a step further than DSC and could possibly take a hit in their pocket book. Now SCI should adopt the criteria for a shootable male lion. Paul Babaz are you listening???

For me none of this has anything to do with anti-hunters. It is about organizations setting standards. If you don’t like it, don’t join or work to change it. Personally I applaud the decision.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:
This is SCI’s definition of estate hunting:

The Record Book Committee of Safari Club International defines an “Estate” category in the Record Book of Big Game Animals as follows:An “Estate” will be any property or area that uses an artificial or unnatural restrictive barrier, in most cases a fence, which restricts or confines the movement of game animals.The restrictive barrier may consist of multiple sides, or only one side.If the artificial barrier is used in conjunction with a natural barrier such as a bluff, canyon, river, lake or other natural barriers, then the enclosed area is also considered an “Estate”. Any game animal taken within the confines of such an “Estate” will be considered for the “Estate Taken” category of that species. Any game animal taken that was raised, or kept for a long period of time, within the confines of an “Estate” and then intentionally or unintentionally releasedoutside of the “Estate” will only be considered for the “Estate Taken” category of that species. If an animal does not fall into this category it will be considered free range. SCI Fair Chase Requirements for Record Book Entries of Estate Animals are as follows. An Estate animal must meet the following criteria in order to be qualified for entry into the Record Book. The animal must have freely resided on the hunted property and the area to be hunted for six months, or longer. The animal must be part of a breeding herd that is resident on the hunted property.The operators of the hunted property must provide freely available and ample amounts of cover, food and water at all times. The hunted property must provide escape cover that allows the animals to elude hunters for extended periods of time and multiple occurrences. Escape cover, in the form of rugged terrain or topography, and/or dense thickets or stands of woods, shall collectively comprise at least 50% of the hunted property. The animal must exhibit its natural flight/ survival instincts. No zoo animal, exhibited animal or tame animal may be considered for entry into the Record Book. Hunting methods employed cannot include driving, herding or chasing the animal to the hunter. SCI supports prevention, management, and research of all wildlife diseases as it pertains to high fenced and non-high fenced hunting areas.

I am glad to see SCI and DSC take a stand on these issues. Surprisingly it is SCI that went a step further than DSC and could possibly take a hit in their pocket book. Now SCI should adopt the criteria for a shootable male lion. Paul Babaz are you listening???

For me none of this has anything to do with anti-hunters. It is about organizations setting standards. If you don’t like it, don’t join or work to change it. Personally I applaud the decision.

I can guarantee you hardly any entry in the record book meets the above criteria!

Professional criminals in South Africa specialize in meeting all these so called criteria and make all the paperwork to make it look legal.

I have absolutely no doubt SCI knows this very well, but they have been turning a blind eye to it!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Slider:

quote:Canned lion shooting, and high fence hunting are very different issues


Not to The Anti's.

It will be great when hunters understand that the true anti's feel the exact same way about ALL HUNTING!

Does not matter to them if iot is 5 acres or 5 million acres, they want it all stopped!

All that is being accomplished with these little concessions on the part of hunters, is merely delaying the inevitable.

It is hard to believe that peope in this day and time honestly believe that if they make concessions like this, the forces that oppose them will cut them some slack and allow them to keep doing something the anti's oppose.

How many honestly believe the anti's will stop trying to get all lion hunting of any kind stopped, simply because a couple of hunting organizations have condemmed one specific type of hunting?

All the actions of DSC and SCI is going to accomplish is to strengthen the anti's efforts, they have been shown quite clearly that hunters will give ground in an attempt to hold on to what they believe will placate the anti's.

x2

quote:

The animal must have freely resided on the hunted property and the area to be hunted for six months, or longer. The animal must be part of a breeding herd that is resident on the hunted property.The operators of the hunted property must provide freely available and ample amounts of cover, food and water at all times. The hunted property must provide escape cover that allows the animals to elude hunters for extended periods of time and multiple occurrences. Escape cover, in the form of rugged terrain or topography, and/or dense thickets or stands of woods, shall collectively comprise at least 50% of the hunted property. The animal must exhibit its natural flight/ survival instincts.

The above conditions are related to herbivores. When these rules were established, canned Lion hunting did not exist and was only introduced years later when it was discovered that "coins" were to be made.

If a Lion is pen raised it is hand fed and such an animal is incapable of fending for itself; this is one of the main reasons why these Lions can never be set free into the wild.

So yes, SCI is trying to portray itself as being a true supporter of ethical hunting and a first for hunters, only because the odds have run out.
At the same time, their butts are covered with the jargon regarding the definition of a "Hunting Estate" where the same canned Lions will continue being hunted under the disguise of "free-ranging behind a fence".

"Estate hunting " ??????

The whole of Africa is a damned "Estate" not just South Africa !

There is not a single country in Africa where game has not been confined to "estates" !

Confined to reserves, confined by veterinary fences and artificial boundaries because a simple fact remains !

Man and wildlife cannot coexist naturally because game carry diseases that do and have the capability of decimating the national domestic animal herd.

Africa is in a ongoing and ever present battle of segregating wildlife from interaction with domestic animals and human habitation and for very obvious reason.

Wildlife destroy crops and on the flip side man destroys wildlife habitat !

So now those organizations who have over time made hunting for a reward , a certificate or trophy have actually reached a point of showing us the folly of their actions and in a way have proven the anti's right !

What was done was to reward those who have the ability to buy a large animal to enter into competition ! And now they want to exclude by virtue of further classifying where these animals are bought ! what a joke !

It is time to do away with awarding hunters with awards. Do work to promote hunting and drop the "oscars" of hunting nonsense !

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Just walked by TAM booth - they are selling canned lion hunts at SCI.

Mike

I mean the email posted above says this new policy goes into effect Feb 4, 2018. Clearly after their current show. So I’m not surprised those outfitters are still on the floor.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Just curious. How will this be enforced? A hunter comes back with a signed and noratrized statement from the PH in South Africa that the lion was free ranging. Who can prove otherwise? There will be ways around this and, as SCI puts SCI frist (and money) they will allow this in a quiet manner so they can continue their revenue intake and also look politically correct in the public's eyes.
Cal

Your first clue is that it was taken in South Africa. There are virtually no free rang lions available for hunting in South Africa.

Excellent response Alf, but the one aspect you did not mention is that with lions and leopards it is not just the act of predation on domestic livestock but upon the humans that own that livestock.

I have a hard time seeing where shooting a captive reared lion inside a high fence that has no impact on the wild population of lions is anywhere near as harmful as having whole prides of wild lions poisoned by natives protecting their families and livestock.

One reality that too many folks are unwilling to admit too and it is one that everyone, hunters/non-hunters and anti-hunters, doesn't matter the reason they give, the only reason a person goes to Africa to kill a lion/leopard or elephant is for a trophy.

That cannot be side stepped or glossed over and simply too many folks world wide have developed a bad attitude toward trophy hunting, especially for animals that are dwindling in numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Just curious. How will this be enforced? A hunter comes back with a signed and noratrized statement from the PH in South Africa that the lion was free ranging. Who can prove otherwise? There will be ways around this and, as SCI puts SCI frist (and money) they will allow this in a quiet manner so they can continue their revenue intake and also look politically correct in the public's eyes.
Cal

Your first clue is that it was taken in South Africa. There are virtually no free rang lions available for hunting in South Africa.

Aren’t there places along Kruger that offer free-range lion hunts...Timbavati for instance?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Aren’t there places along Kruger that offer free-range lion hunts...Timbavati for instance?

It’s possible to hunt a free range lion in SA but as you know it’s extremely limited.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:
This is SCI’s definition of estate hunting:

The Record Book Committee of Safari Club International defines an “Estate” category in the Record Book of Big Game Animals as follows:An “Estate” will be any property or area that uses an artificial or unnatural restrictive barrier, in most cases a fence, which restricts or confines the movement of game animals.The restrictive barrier may consist of multiple sides, or only one side.If the artificial barrier is used in conjunction with a natural barrier such as a bluff, canyon, river, lake or other natural barriers, then the enclosed area is also considered an “Estate”. Any game animal taken within the confines of such an “Estate” will be considered for the “Estate Taken” category of that species. Any game animal taken that was raised, or kept for a long period of time, within the confines of an “Estate” and then intentionally or unintentionally releasedoutside of the “Estate” will only be considered for the “Estate Taken” category of that species. If an animal does not fall into this category it will be considered free range. SCI Fair Chase Requirements for Record Book Entries of Estate Animals are as follows. An Estate animal must meet the following criteria in order to be qualified for entry into the Record Book. The animal must have freely resided on the hunted property and the area to be hunted for six months, or longer. The animal must be part of a breeding herd that is resident on the hunted property.The operators of the hunted property must provide freely available and ample amounts of cover, food and water at all times. The hunted property must provide escape cover that allows the animals to elude hunters for extended periods of time and multiple occurrences. Escape cover, in the form of rugged terrain or topography, and/or dense thickets or stands of woods, shall collectively comprise at least 50% of the hunted property. The animal must exhibit its natural flight/ survival instincts. No zoo animal, exhibited animal or tame animal may be considered for entry into the Record Book. Hunting methods employed cannot include driving, herding or chasing the animal to the hunter. SCI supports prevention, management, and research of all wildlife diseases as it pertains to high fenced and non-high fenced hunting areas.

I am glad to see SCI and DSC take a stand on these issues. Surprisingly it is SCI that went a step further than DSC and could possibly take a hit in their pocket book. Now SCI should adopt the criteria for a shootable male lion. Paul Babaz are you listening???

For me none of this has anything to do with anti-hunters. It is about organizations setting standards. If you don’t like it, don’t join or work to change it. Personally I applaud the decision.

So does this mean that SCI will finally have an office, a staff, and field investigators in South Africa? If so, I applaud their efforts at least. Otherwise this is purely a vacuous PR move.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
"Estate hunting " ??????

The whole of Africa is a damned "Estate" not just South Africa !

There is not a single country in Africa where game has not been confined to "estates" !

Confined to reserves, confined by veterinary fences and artificial boundaries because a simple fact remains !

Man and wildlife cannot coexist naturally because game carry diseases that do and have the capability of decimating the national domestic animal herd.

Africa is in a ongoing and ever present battle of segregating wildlife from interaction with domestic animals and human habitation and for very obvious reason.

Wildlife destroy crops and on the flip side man destroys wildlife habitat !

So now those organizations who have over time made hunting for a reward , a certificate or trophy have actually reached a point of showing us the folly of their actions and in a way have proven the anti's right !

What was done was to reward those who have the ability to buy a large animal to enter into competition ! And now they want to exclude by virtue of further classifying where these animals are bought ! what a joke !

It is time to do away with awarding hunters with awards. Do work to promote hunting and drop the "oscars" of hunting nonsense !

What would the Wall Street crooks masquerading as “hunters” do with all their ill gotten “trophies” delivered to order by the Crooked PHs in South Africa do then??

quote:

One reality that too many folks are unwilling to admit too and it is one that everyone, hunters/non-hunters and anti-hunters, doesn't matter the reason they give, the only reason a person goes to Africa to kill a lion/leopard or elephant is for a trophy.

Wrong again. I hunt in Africa not for the trophy but for the overall experience and the thrill of the hunt. I also believe in conservation through hunting by supporting operators that that are good stewards of the wildlife on their concessions. The trophy is way down on the list.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:
[QUOTE]One reality that too many folks are unwilling to admit too and it is one that everyone, hunters/non-hunters and anti-hunters, doesn't matter the reason they give, the only reason a person goes to Africa to kill a lion/leopard or elephant

Wrong again. I hunt in Africa not for the trophy but for the overall experience and the thrill of the hunt. I also believe in conservation through hunting by supporting operators that that are good stewards of the wildlife on their concessions. The trophy is way down on the list.

Exactly. It is a byproduct of the hunt and a way to honor the animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Excellent response Alf, but the one aspect you did not mention is that with lions and leopards it is not just the act of predation on domestic livestock but upon the humans that own that livestock.

I have a hard time seeing where shooting a captive reared lion inside a high fence that has no impact on the wild population of lions is anywhere near as harmful as having whole prides of wild lions poisoned by natives protecting their families and livestock.

One reality that too many folks are unwilling to admit too and it is one that everyone, hunters/non-hunters and anti-hunters, doesn't matter the reason they give, the only reason a person goes to Africa to kill a lion/leopard or elephant is for a trophy.

That cannot be side stepped or glossed over and simply too many folks world wide have developed a bad attitude toward trophy hunting, especially for animals that are dwindling in numbers.

The above statement is not true across the board...at least not for me. I go for the experience...solely. Yes...I bring trophies home...but they are immaterial to ‘why’ I go. I have bought expensive hunts knowing full well I would likely never be able to bring a trophy home...and I am in the process of buying another.

For me...trophies are a tribute to the animal. I like animals and thus display them throughout my home.

But make no mistake about it...I hunt because I am a hunter...it is all about the experience.

As I was saying, does not matter the reasons or excuses or justifications the hunter gives, more and more people including hunters only see the hunting and killing of those animals as nothing more or less than aquiring a trophy and stroking ones ego.

The anti's do not care what a hunters reasons are, they want all hunting stopped even if they have to do it one species at a time.

Non hunters even those that have no problem with others that do hunt, are changing their attitudes es[pecially when it comes to species such as lion and elephant.

quote:

But make no mistake about it...I hunt because I am a hunter...it is all about the experience.

Lane I have probably been a hunter about as long as you have, possibly a day or two longer and I agree 100%, I am a hunter, I was born a hunter and will die a hunter and it IS all about the experience and not the kill/not the trophy.

But in case you and others have not been looking at the world around you hunting and hunters have became persona non gratta in many peoples point of view.

No matter our own justifications for WHY we hunt, world wide, more and more people are questioning the place hunting, especially of species such as lion and elephant has in our modern world.

It appears on the surface that includes our President.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:

quote:

One reality that too many folks are unwilling to admit too and it is one that everyone, hunters/non-hunters and anti-hunters, doesn't matter the reason they give, the only reason a person goes to Africa to kill a lion/leopard or elephant is for a trophy.

Wrong again. I hunt in Africa not for the trophy but for the overall experience and the thrill of the hunt. I also believe in conservation through hunting by supporting operators that that are good stewards of the wildlife on their concessions. The trophy is way down on the list.

Mike, not trying to flame anyone here, but have you ever asked just exactly how much of your money went into conservation work?

As a community, we need to start asking a lot more direct questions like:

How much of my hunting fees are directed to boots on the ground conservation work?

How much of my hunting fees are directed to the local community - outside of the farm staff?

How much of the meat from my hunt will be shared with the local community - outside of the farm staff?

If you are on a farm - How many animals did you purchased this year and what percentage do you replace each year?

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:

quote:

Originally posted by MikeBurke:

quote:

One reality that too many folks are unwilling to admit too and it is one that everyone, hunters/non-hunters and anti-hunters, doesn't matter the reason they give, the only reason a person goes to Africa to kill a lion/leopard or elephant is for a trophy.

Wrong again. I hunt in Africa not for the trophy but for the overall experience and the thrill of the hunt. I also believe in conservation through hunting by supporting operators that that are good stewards of the wildlife on their concessions. The trophy is way down on the list.

Mike, not trying to flame anyone here, but have you ever asked just exactly how much of your money went into conservation work?

As a community, we need to start asking a lot more direct questions like:

How much of my hunting fees are directed to boots on the ground conservation work?

How much of my hunting fees are directed to the local community - outside of the farm staff?

How much of the meat from my hunt will be shared with the local community - outside of the farm staff?

If you are on a farm - How many animals did you purchased this year and what percentage do you replace each year?

Bloody hell!

I go to hunt.

Not to be an inquisitor of what my money is spent!