Any news on the alleged 100lber just shot with M Pieters as PH?

A 75 pounder with Jannie Meyer this week is all I have seen.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:
A 75 pounder with Jannie Meyer this week is all I have seen.

seen that one also but apparently a collard 100lber was taken near Gona

Adam,
You are 100% correct. Due to some of the circumstances nobody is speaking too much about it. I was copied the pics of it and the names of hunters but will not share at this time. I believe 100% legal but...

I have said this before.

I will never knowingly shoot a collared animal.

Regardless of how big it is.

Doing so is just plain stupid.

Especially today.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have said this before.

I will never knowingly shoot a collared animal.

Regardless of how big it is.

Doing so is just plain stupid.

Especially today.

+1 and don't complain about whatever grief may come your way as a result either.

The sad thing here was that Frankurt Zoological knew where he was and called the hunters to ask them not to shoot him.

. . . and folks say ethics are not a legitimate consideration in setting hunting standards. If that is true Lane, it is a pitiful commentary on the hunting community.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The sad thing here was that Frankurt Zoological knew where he was and called the hunters to ask them not to shoot him.

Bloody hell!

Would be interesting to know how this worked out.

How did the Zoological know they were hunting elephants?

How did they contact them?

Several anti-hunting Facebook sites have posted photos of the "alleged" collared, 100-pounder.

Convicted felons killing collared, iconic lions adjacent to National Parks, other trophy hunters killing collared, iconic elephants adjacent to world renown National Parks including both Matusadona and Gonorozhou, etc.

Wow! What a public relations nightmare. I suspect that the killing of another iconic animal adjacent to a national park will really help the safari hunting community win over hearts and minds of the undecided masses (when it comes to trophy hunting in Southern Africa).

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Does this prequalified the PH for an SCI award?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The sad thing here was that Frankurt Zoological knew where he was and called the hunters to ask them not to shoot him.

Bloody hell!

Would be interesting to know how this worked out.

How did the Zoological know they were hunting elephants?

How did they contact them?

Frankfort Zoological manages Gonarezhou. They knew the ele was in the hunting block from his tracking collar coordinates. Someone from the park made comms with the camp and let them know...hoping with that knowledge they would look close for a collar and let the collared ele walk.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . and folks say ethics are not a legitimate consideration in setting hunting standards. If that is true Lane, it is a pitiful commentary on the hunting community.

The PH posts here from time to time and it has been done a week. I suspect thats the reason for the hush hush here.

I have been waiting to see if it was ever mentioned here.

Anyone likes to bet this will be worse than Cecil?

Mike mentioned ethics, and I am one of those who keep saying I do not want anyone to expect me to follow their ethics.

But, this is just plane, utterly stupid thing to do after they have been informed about it.

If that is true and the camp communicated the same to the PH and hunter and they went ahead anyway, as hunters we deserve a bloody nose and are likely to get one. For example, so much for imports reopening. This is not a situation apparently where they were collaring elephants willy nilly to just protect them, sounds like the bull was collared for a good reason.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The sad thing here was that Frankurt Zoological knew where he was and called the hunters to ask them not to shoot him.

Bloody hell!

Would be interesting to know how this worked out.

How did the Zoological know they were hunting elephants?

How did they contact them?

Frankfort Zoological manages Gonarezhou. They knew the ele was in the hunting block from his tracking collar coordinates. Someone from the park made comms with the camp and let them know...hoping with that knowledge they would look close for a collar and let the collared ele walk.

Sounds like they used the call to locate it.

Using information from a collar to locate an animal like that and then kill the animal removes any semblance of fair chase. No doubt they went straight to him. That PH should have his license pulled under those circumstances.

What a sorry state of affairs.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The sad thing here was that Frankurt Zoological knew where he was and called the hunters to ask them not to shoot him.

Bloody hell!

Would be interesting to know how this worked out.

How did the Zoological know they were hunting elephants?

How did they contact them?

Frankfort Zoological manages Gonarezhou. They knew the ele was in the hunting block from his tracking collar coordinates. Someone from the park made comms with the camp and let them know...hoping with that knowledge they would look close for a collar and let the collared ele walk.

Sounds like they used the call to locate it.

If that is the case, I hope whoever the PH is should have his license revoked!

I am just hoping that the truth is different to what we are all assuming right now!

What an utter disaster.

We can say good by to that promising committee formed in the US.

quote:

. . . and folks say ethics are not a legitimate consideration in setting hunting standards. If that is true Lane, it is a pitiful commentary on the hunting community.

But Mike, as to some people's adamant opinions, if it's legal its fair game and ethics be damned!
One cannot fight stupidity, its like trying to control the weather.

Just curious why we should not post a pic of an elephant that appears to be posted on facebook?

apparently the collar was not seen untill down and to be honest could you imagine seeing those tusks amongst the early season bush. I doubt many would have paused to enjoy the scenery.
And how on earth would the Scientific group know of a safari in his area???
Lots of assumptions

What is so difficult in when the national park mangers calling the adjacent concession holder and saying, “Look guys we have our prized bull for either tourism or research collard. The GPS says he has crossed into your block. Could you extend us a professional curtesy and not shoot him?”

At that point if I am the hunter on the ground, I say Ok Boys that 100 pounder is off limits show me the next oldest bull we can find.”

To my mind it is professional curtesy, neighborly, and hunting conservation minded.

What good can come from picking a Second fight with another research group from a national park. Some folks just do not care or engage in foresight thinking. It is not like we have all not been hammered by the lion fiasco. It is like it did not hurt enough the first time. Let us do it again.

Let me put things to bed be BEFORE the majority of you run with speculation from Facebook and heresay.
The bull was shot in Naivasha communal land adjacent to Gonerezhou, approx. 5km into the communal area
No one was aware of the collared elephant in the concession.
No one and I repeat no one reported the elephant to the camp and or the PH and or the operator, in fact the management of FZS who run the park knew the bull had been active in the hunting area for over a month by its GPS collar and refrained or decided not to inform the hunting company despite having comms daily with the safari operator and having a national parks ranger with a radio from their unit on the vehicle.
Elephant was 81/83
Have a good day and stay off Facebook.

I was gonna say something like that what Martin said
Tons of speculations just to get stirred anti hunting people
And bunch of you guys fell for you it, just like with Cecilius

I hope that is all correct . . . and that the collar was not seen.

There are always at least two sides to every story.

Shame on those of you that jumped to conclusions before taking the time to listen to the "other side" before passing judgement on a fellow hunter.

We are, as always, our own worst enemy.

I choose to believe Martin.


Shane

quote:

Originally posted by martin pieters:
Let me put things to bed be BEFORE the majority of you run with speculation from Facebook and heresay.
The bull was shot in Naivasha communal land adjacent to Gonerezhou, approx. 5km into the communal area
No one was aware of the collared elephant in the concession.
No one and I repeat no one reported the elephant to the camp and or the PH and or the operator, in fact the management of FZS who run the park knew the bull had been active in the hunting area for over a month by its GPS collar and refrained or decided not to inform the hunting company despite having comms daily with the safari operator and having a national parks ranger with a radio from their unit on the vehicle.
Elephant was 81/83
Have a good day and stay off Facebook.

Thanks for the update Martin.

Who cares about the facts?

Nice to see that some of us still do.

I hope what Martin Pieters says is true. If he is confirmed, I retract everything I said and will delete the post. However, let’s not forget the last time he posted here he was changing areas on elephant hunting clients without prior approval from the clients.

News (and fake news) comes from all sides, not just two. And most news is unreliable.

Fair minded people must withhold placing blame unless and until enough facts are reported and sifted and known to permit one to render a sound judgment.

Just my humble two cents.

Who do we believe now??

The truth can be proven with records.

Do they exist?

Who has them?

From gonarezhou national park Facebook page, just trying to load it onto here

21 March 2018
Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association (ZPHGA) Mukuvisi Woodlands
Hillside Rd / Glenara Ave South
Harare
Tel : +263 4 779792
Internal statement to members, associations and associated conservation groups on shooting of collared elephant in Naivasha C.A.M.P.F.I.R.E. area:
Background: For those members not familiar with the Gonarezhou region - Naivasha is a community conservancy of just over 100 000 acres that shares approximately 60km of boundary with Gonarezhou National Park.
Events as recounted to us through interviews and statements: The PH, Martin Pieters, a ZPHGA member, was conducting a 14 day elephant safari in the Naivasha. He was accompanied by his Russian client, a non-hunting observer, two trackers, a Gonarezhou Parks and Wildlife Ranger and a Chiredzi Rural District Council representative.
He was not informed of any collared elephant in the communal area although this bull had been mostly resident in the area since the 20th February this year.
On the 6th day of the safari, 7th March 2018, the tracks of this elephant were found and followed. The elephant was eventually located, approximately 5km from the park boundary. Due to thick bush at this time of year, the bull was not visible in it’s entirety. The PH was, however, able to ascertain that the elephant was carrying substantial ivory, and instructed the client to shoot. It was only after approaching the elephant on the ground that the collar was noticed. It was removed and returned to the Mbalahuta Parks offices and a full statement made to the Senior Wildlife Officer.
Current finding: After interviewing the PH in charge of the safari and communications with authorities from Gonarezhou, it is unfortunate that neither the PH, Ranger or RDC representative where notified by the Authorities that the collored bull had been in the hunting area since the 20th of February, nor had any of them attempted to establish if a bull of significance was in or near the hunting area. The EXCO concludes that, while a tragedy, based on information provided by the PH, the Gonarezhou ranger and the authorities in Gonarezhou this was a genuine mistake due to a lack of communication.
Comment: The population of elephants in Gonarezhou has steadily increased to 11000(2 elephants/ km2) due to the incredible conservation efforts by the successful partnership between Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority and Frankfurt Zoological Society.
Conservation success stories as in the case of Gonarezhou and other National Parks in Zimbabwe, have the inevitable consequence of an increased overflow of key species to adjacent areas. We urge our members to communicate with local and appropriate authorities on movements of any animals of significance, and not assume you will be notified.
James Rosenfels
Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association

http://i1369.photobucket.com/a...ge-1_zpsihmjbpb9.jpg

National Parks has confirmed that there has been no offence committed.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Any news on the alleged 100lber just shot with M Pieters as PH?

If the post is correct, would it not be an opportunity for a respected organization like FZS to make a statement saying that while the death of the collared elephant is not ideal, it was part of the larger scheme of elephant conservation in the area; one that has resulted in an increase in this key species and one that will be continued for the long-term interest of elephant conservation?

While I am certain that all was 100% legal in this case...

...I am going to make this one statement based on our recent conversations here.

If we are to preserve hunting of species like ele, the onus is on us to prevent these things from happening. They can be prevented. If we don’t, the privilege of hunting these areas will be removed.

Superb, go hunting. Don't let fear of the anti's make us doubt what we know to be good...and stay off Facebook. They are friend to no one.

Well then, my bad! Thanks for sharing the details associated with this hunt conducted adjacent to a world renown national park. Apparently, it was not only a "legal" hunt but an "ethical" hunt as well (according to a few posts).

Congrats to everyone involved in this successful hunt and especially for killing one of the very few remaining tuskers in Southern Africa. Leading conservationist have estimated that there are less than 50 remaining tuskers in all of Africa. Photos please.

The non-hunting folks that will determine the future (or lack thereof) of "trophy" hunting couldn't give a shit less whether the bull elephant was resting in thick brush with it's research collar hidden by mopane brush, laying in a river with only his head showing thus hiding it's research collar, or strutting around the conservancy wearing a balaclava covering it's research collar. In addition, they couldn't give a shit less that his presence within the adjacent conservancy or communal area was known or unknown.

With or without photos on social media, the non-hunting folks will be appalled and disgusted that one of the few remaining 100-pound plus tuskers has been killed. Just another nail in the "trophy" hunting coffin. Please carry on gentlemen.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
If the post is correct, would it not be an opportunity for a respected organization like FZS to make a statement saying that while the death of the collared elephant is not ideal, it was part of the larger scheme of elephant conservation in the area; one that has resulted in an increase in this key species and one that will be continued for the long-term interest of elephant conservation?

.....because its not in their best financial interests.

quote:

Originally posted by Neil-PH:

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
If the post is correct, would it not be an opportunity for a respected organization like FZS to make a statement saying that while the death of the collared elephant is not ideal, it was part of the larger scheme of elephant conservation in the area; one that has resulted in an increase in this key species and one that will be continued for the long-term interest of elephant conservation?

.....because its not in their best financial interests.

That’s the 800 lb gorilla; are they in it for the elephant, or the $$$? If they have scientific data showing their success, well, don’t we trust the scientist?

I am getting all sorts of contradictory reports.

Not sure who is telling the truth and who is not.