quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
So does there need to be a slot limit like they do for some fisheries. Elephants from 40lbs to 60lbs. Sounds like a nightmare to me if I were a PH.

How would it effect hunting elephants if one knew one couldn't shoot a large one, since now we need to ensure someone can take a photo.

Make elephant hunting so complicated as to make it impractical. No thanks.

Allowing a collar to be a "thing" is only the beginning. Next all those elephants being photographed whether collared or not will also get a name I imagine and therefore will also be off limits.

It certainly is not rocket science, but it does require rational/logical argument. Although the equation showing the benefits of elephant hunting compared to elephant tourism might be enlightening. Aren't there elephants to photograph because of hunters?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
We have plenty of laws . . . what we have a shortage of is good judgment. But rest assured if we continue to exercise poor judgment, then the laws will change and the result is likely to be more draconian than if we had simply done a better job of just acting responsibly in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Check this pic & note not only the dart in his arse but also the fact the pic was taken in good light

BS ... its just your imagination - there ain't no collar nor a dart on its arse.

You sure you haven't been at the green pipe again?

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
So does there need to be a slot limit like they do for some fisheries. Elephants from 40lbs to 60lbs. Sounds like a nightmare to me if I were a PH.

How would it effect hunting elephants if one knew one couldn't shoot a large one, since now we need to ensure someone can take a photo.

Make elephant hunting so complicated as to make it impractical. No thanks.

Allowing a collar to be a "thing" is only the beginning. Next all those elephants being photographed whether collared or not will also get a name I imagine and therefore will also be off limits.

It certainly is not rocket science, but it does require rational/logical argument. Although the equation showing the benefits of elephant hunting compared to elephant tourism might be enlightening. Aren't there elephants to photograph because of hunters?

quote:

Originally posted by crane:
I'm pretty certain Saeed mentioned his group has not seen a shootable ele bull for 10 plus years now in Tanzania. So at least there another issue is at play.

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
Thanks Todd for one of the only posts that makes any sense among all of the rumor spreaders and hypocrites.
shane

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Like I said, the public apparently understands the distinction between hunting collared animals on national park boundaries and pen raised lions versus hunting female animals

We all know and agree the general public is grossly misinformed or simply uninformed as to the conservation benefits of hunting.

Within that context, and the context of the EMOTIONAL underpinnings of the general public's opinion on the subject of hunting in general, anyone who believes the masses object more to the shooting of a collared animal over the shooting of a PREGNANT FEMALE is in serious denial!

And the "can't see the forrest for the trees" message here is that the guy who has probably shot more tuskless cows than anyone on the forum, remembering they are all pregnant or else nursing dependent calves, is oblivious to the fact he is living in a glass house on the ethics issue due to this very topic.

I argue that a conservation message can also be made for shooting a collared bull near a park. That argument being the reason for hunting blocks surrounding the park in the first place being a construct for off take of animals in excess of the carrying capacity of the park. As has been stated here and other places on this forum when discussing the collaring and studying of animals, the fact that the animal moved into a hunting block and was taken by legal hunting means should be nothing more than a data point in the research study ... that is unless the reason for placing the collar had other motivations than pure research in the first place.

I know well the conservation argument for shooting tuskless cows, which are all pregnant. I can make that very strong argument as well if given the opportunity. But I'll guarantee you that when placing the Pregnant Female vs Collared Bull topics placed side by side, the shooting of Pregnant Female elephants will rate far higher on the public's scale of offensiveness! I'd go so far as to say it isn't even a close comparison.

Just to be clear, I've shot a few tuskless cow elephants, which are all pregnant. I will probably do so again as I fully understand the conservation narrative. But then again, I'm not the guy here telling others that my ethics are superior to everyone else's and that you will either conform to MY standards or watch your hunting rights disappear completely.

Carry on. I'm out!!

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:
It is being reported that a second collared elephant bull has been shot adjacent to Gonarezhou National Park.

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Frankfurt Zoological Society Statement

. . . sad when one considers that only approximately twenty elephants in Gonarezhou were even collared.

quote:

Woodmnctry

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:
It is being reported that a second collared elephant bull has been shot adjacent to Gonarezhou National Park.

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Martin working on a Hat Trick?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:
It is being reported that a second collared elephant bull has been shot adjacent to Gonarezhou National Park.

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Martin working on a Hat Trick?

It is not Martin this time.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Frankfurt Zoological Society Statement

. . . sad when one considers that only approximately twenty elephants in Gonarezhou were even collared.

Quite depressing that these actions may seal the fate of elephant hunting in Zimbabwe. But then again you make your bed and you lie in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Frankfurt Zoological Society Statement

. . . sad when one considers that only approximately twenty elephants in Gonarezhou were even collared.

Quite depressing that these actions may seal the fate of elephant hunting in Zimbabwe. But then again you make your bed and you lie in it.

I wish it was that easy Andrew.

Sadly, it is not.

Martin Peters has proven - to me at least - that all he cares about is himself. I am getting messages that he is getting involved in all sorts of shady practices.

I have searched the net, and found many elephants with collars.

Anyone claiming that they have not seen one on an elephant they have shot are most certainly NOT telling the truth.

I have hunted elephants for years, and shot quite a few, and know exactly what is involved.

So that little lie that "we did not see the collar" does not hold any water.

This latest one is exactly the same.

By the actions of selfish clients and crooked PHs, they are making sure that elephant hunting is under the spotlight, and by extension making it extremely difficult for the rest of us to be able to hunt elephants in the future.

How stupid can they get?

Especially after all the outcry after the one before.

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
What "outcry"? This is not a "Cecil" type event. Hunting elephants will not be ended by a collared elephant being shot. Making a huge deal out of shooting a collard elephant will just end it sooner. Correction just make legal hunting of elephants end sooner.

The good people of AR have put more of a spotlight on the collared elephants than any other media could. I'm sure some are thankful.

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:
It is being reported that a second collared elephant bull has been shot adjacent to Gonarezhou National Park.

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Martin working on a Hat Trick?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:
It is being reported that a second collared elephant bull has been shot adjacent to Gonarezhou National Park.

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Martin working on a Hat Trick?

Must be gunning for SCI PH of the Year award.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Not Martin, but the same operator that did the hunt when Martin shot the collared bull. Going to make the "we did not know there were collared bulls around" excuse a little tougher.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
A Facebook page goes nuts when a single collared Elephant goes down.

Can someone point me to the Facebook page that is currently going nuts every time an Elephant hits the ground where the ivory from that calf or cow Elephant winds up on the streets of Hong Kong or Beijing?

I didn't think so.

The inmates are running the asylum.

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
A Facebook page goes nuts when a single collared Elephant goes down.

Can someone point me to the Facebook page that is currently going nuts every time an Elephant hits the ground where the ivory from that calf or cow Elephant winds up on the streets of Hong Kong or Beijing?

I didn't think so.

The inmates are running the asylum.