For those interested, here is the staff breakdown on my recent safari with Swainson's.

CAMP:
6 Camp Staff (cook, cook's assistant, laundry, skinner and 2 others - not sure of their exact job titles).


HUNTING PARTY:
2 Trackers (Swainson's employees. The PH did not have any Private Trackers).

1 Camp Manager (who also happened to be studying to be a PH, so he went along with us on all the hunting). Note: we did not have a Learner PH.

1 Learner Tracker/Water Boy.

1 Game Scout.

1 Driver (the driver was the PH's guy, he also works on the PH's farm).

I tipped the Camp Staff one amount, the PH said they would divide it among themselves based on their pecking order.

I tipped the Hunting Party individually based on their pecking order as spelled out by the PH.

The Catering Manageress was a new one on me. She worked out of the main camp, which we did not stay in. Initially, I was reluctant to tip for this, but after meeting her, I did give her a tip (but not as generous as the tip sheet recommended).

Regards,

Terry

quote:

The Catering Manageress was a new one on me. She worked out of the main camp, which we did not stay in. Initially, I was reluctant to tip for this, but after meeting her, I did give her a tip (but not as generous as the tip sheet recommended).

Just another way to milk us,IMO

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Am I crazy (don't answer that ) to think that we could come up with a broad general guideline regarding tipping? I mean something that would give us a ball park figure to use when planning a safari?

I used to think that the 10% of the Daily Rate rule was pretty good, but with some RSA outfitters charging $550/day for plains game and the Daily Rates in places like Tanzania and Zambia now in excess of $1,500/day, I think that the 10% rule is not a good rule anymore.

How about this?


Plains Game Safari:
1. Staff Tip - $20-$30 per day.
2. PH Tip - $30-$50 per day.

Dangerous Game:
1. Staff Tip - $30-$50 per day.
2. PH Tip - $70-$100 per day.

Exception to above: Full bag 21-28 days safaris in Tanzania, Zambia and Botswana may require a higher level of tipping than those stated above.

Staff Tip to be divided among the staff according to directions from your PH.

Is the above a reasonable and workable set of guidelines? Given the fact that there will always be ones who can tip much more and ones who can tip less.

Regards,

Terry

Let's see how those Guidelines (from Page 2 of this topic) work when compared to Swainson's suggested tips.

First, let me say, I am NOT telling anyone how/when/why to tip. I am just opening up a discussion on this topic. Don't take it personally, this is not me against you. This is the f*cking internet, so keep things in perspective. I posted the information I received from Swainson's because I thought it would add some real world numbers to an often discussed but seldom quantified topic.

************************************************************************

Let's use a 10 Day Buffalo/Plains Game safari

Guidelines:
Staff Tip: $300-$500
PH Tip: $700-$1,000

Swainson's:
Staff Tip: $400-$550
PH Tip: $1,000-$1,200

or (if we double the tip for the trackers, since it wasn't clear whether Swainson's was talking about total or for each, assume two trackers)
Staff Tip: $450-$630
PH Tip: $1,000-$1,200

So it turns out:
Staff Tip: $300-$500 v. $400-$630
PH Tip: $700-$1,000 v. $1,000-$1,200

Let's do the same with a 14 Day Buffalo/Leopard
Staff Tip: $420-$700 v. $620-$850
PH Tip: $980-$1,400 v. $1,400-$1,600

Regards,

Terry

Just for comparison, from Swanepoel & Scandrol:

What are the recommended gratuities?
In general, on all safaris, we have established a guideline of $500 per week to cover all the camp staff/trackers. For the government game scouts we work on $100 per week. For the professional hunters, it varies widely, but over the years, the average seems to work out to an average of $100 per day. For the “Meet and Greet†staff member we suggest $50 per person, covering arrival and departure. It must be noted that the above are only suggestions and all gratuities are totally at the discretion of the client.


For my part, I asked my booking agent about PH tips and got the recommendation from the PH for staff tips, then adjusted based on my feelings after the hunt.

Thanks, Terry. That's the most helpful post yet - and, the guideline I'll be using.
Dave

Thanks Charles,

Guidelines v. Swainson's v. Swanepoel & Scandrol

10 Day Buffalo/Plains Game Safari:

Staff Tip: $300-$500 v. $400-$630 v. $900
PH Tip: $700-$1,000 v. $1,000-$1,200 v. $1,000

14 Day Buffalo/Leopard Safari:

Staff Tip: $420-$700 v. $620-$850 v. $1,250
PH Tip: $980-$1,400 v. $1,400-$1,600 v. $1,400

Regards,

Terry

For Africa...

Subtlely find out what the PH's wife and kids like. Bring them something. Music CDs and electronic games for the kids appropriate for their age. Brought the wife a laptop computer.

Indirectly find out what the PH would like. One wanted a Colt SAA 44 Special, Gene Autry CD, and a set of American Civil War Confederate officer spurs.

Hand out the gifts on the second night in camp around the fire.

Hunt always goes well when "tips" are known early.

These gift tips do not replace cash tips at the end of the hunt.

Hammer

Are these recommendations wages masquerading as "tips" ?

Look like it to me.

You know, looking at the Guidelines and Swainson's suggested tip amounts, the Staff Tip works out to about one-half of the PH's tip. Might not be a bad little memory rule: "Staff = 1/2 of a PH".

Regards,

Terry

I forgot to mention this (it's included in the notes to Swainson's tip sheet),

Observers +/- 10% of total daily rate.

I assume the daily rate they are talking about is the Observer Rate and not the Daily Rate for the hunting. Personally, I would never tip for an observer. I think $175/day more than covers any direct/indirect expenses associated with an observer and it also provides a rather nice profit. With me, tipping for the observer is never going to happen.

Regards,

Terry

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I hate to say it again, but I think this is getting sillier and sillier.

Hunters come from all walks of life. There is the man who saves his pennies over a period of several years to be able to afford a hunt in Africa, and then he has to factor in a sizeable amount just for tips!?

Tips, as I understand them, are a show of gratitude for a job very well done. Over and above what is is expected for what you have already paid for.

Even then, we are talking 4 figures here as total tips, and this can have an effect on the hunter.

I expect it might not be long before so called "tips" are included in the hunt price, which is fine. But, what happens when one does not get the service he has already paid for originally anyway?

Does one ask for his tips to be returned?

The hotels have followed that example, and I am sorry to say I have noticed a marked decrease in "service" one gets.

How much do you have to tip if you bring a Marlin LA .45/70 loaded with hard cast flat 'point' bullets on a 7 days Cape Buffalo hunt ?

Saeed is right again. We pay the ever increasing asking price for a hunt, in advance, and then a tip for delivering what was agreed upon?

Maybe I'm leaving money on the table. Should I expect a tip when I work on someone's expensive rifle? It hasn't happened yet.

It would appear that tips have become a form of bribe to entice PHs, waiters, barbers, paperboys, pizza delivery people, etc. to perform the service agreed upon.

When tipping comes to the point that the safari outfitter just ads it to the bill we will all suffer. Leave what you want and dont agonize over it. I also think it is bad form for a PH to make un asked for suggestions.

Sounds like on a ten day hunt you better kill all the game on the first day because it's going to take the next nine days to give out tips properly.

I think this thread went way past goofy about four pages ago.

If I took all this sh** seriously the fun of going hunting would be lost entirely. I will not be playing Santa Claus in Camo. Please notify the entire population of Zambia so they can have time to recover from the shock and disappointment.

As I recently posted on the "bonus tips for spotting game" thread, I got the following advice from my PH while hunting tuskless elephant for 8 days a few weeks ago in Zim:

quote:

$50 for the nr 1 tracker, $40 for the nr 2 tracker and the same for the gamescout, and finally $100 to be given to the "communal pot" which is devided up between all the camp staff.

In other words, a fair bit less than what many hunters consider a decent tip. But when considering the real costs of living for a black african, these "average" tips are a lot of money actually.

Overtipping can easily create greed, and incorrect expectations of what they will then expect from the next client IMO. A dangerous, evil circle...

Tips a gift, whatever you tip is fine with us....

I have seen some weird things in my career...I have seen some poor boy who saved all his life for one trip tip over the top, and people who could buy Ft. Knox tip so little it ridiculas..I have seen folks that got the best hunt imaginable tip little, and folks that had a tough hunt with less success tip a lot...

You never know, and its not something we even bother to worry about, whatever the PH and staff get is fine...If you overtip that is much appreciated, if you undertip then that also is appreciated...

Some say 10 to 15% of the cost of the hunt is recommended and that is a very good tip IMO and pretty close to what we receive on average....but less is acceptable and the quality of the hunt has to play into this scenario also....

I would have to suggest is do whatever you wish and let it go at that...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Tips a gift, whatever you tip is fine with us....

That is the best attitude about tipping that I have heard so far.

Sounds like Ray just came up with a decent tipping policy. Lets consider it the official policy of accurate reloading members. Lets see leave a little and thats good or leave alot and thats also good. I would just add for those who dont tip thats good too.

I plan to spend most of my time thinking about hunting.

IMHO tipping is up to you and there should not be a set formula. If you give what you can afford for what you think is good service and give it in a respectfull way I think that means alot.

I don't make a lot of money, (about $55,000 before taxes) and I have a wife who is a full time mom. HOWEVER I have done without a lot of things so I could do more hunting, my only real hobby.

I have been to Africa 2x. First was to Zim in 2001 for a 10 day plains game hunt then in 2003 I went to Tanzania for 16 days for Buffalo and a load of plains game.

I am going back in 2007 for 21 days, Elephant, Leopard, Sable, Eland, Blue Wildabeast
and as many Buff as I can.

I thimk a PH should get between $500 to $1000 for a safari like this. The staff should get between $10 to $50 depending on how and what they did for you and how "out of their way" they did or did not go. LETS ALSO REMEMBER THAT IN A CAMP LIKE THIS YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE ABOUT 15 to 20 PEOPLE TO TIPP !!!!! On a plains game safari out of a ranch house it is easier as you have less than half as many people. Unless someone treated me badly or failed to do their job I would never leave any member of the staff out. I am also a big fan of gifts for the staff, everything from clothes to knives and sunglasses along with at least some $$$

I think something should be said about the Game Scouts. When you pay a conservation fee to the goverment, be it Tanzania, Zim or Botswana you are paying HIS salary. If all he does for the safari is tagg along and make sure the PH and I do not illegally shoot game then I feel no need to tip him. If he helps out, spots game or contributes in any way other than just taking up space then I will take care of him.

REMEMBER it is up to you! Every PH I know will tell you that there are clients, mostly europeans that never tip regardless how good or bad the safari was.

I usually tip the PH 15% and shoot the staff.

Honkey

If you have done that much African hunting and are planning more on $55,000 a year you are a dedicated man. Good show! I absolutely agree with you about the Game Scout. Unless he actively involves himself in the success of my safari I see no reason to tip him. In my experience the Scouts have figured this out and jumped right in often being very involved in the hunt and as useful as the trackers.

Mark

My PH, Neil Barnard of NB Safaris, RSA, asked I not tip his workers either. He said to bring gifts for them. They have 100 multi tools each, 200 hats, tee shirts, etc. I am taking them sunglasses, soccer balls, socks, and Neil said if I wanted to, I could give him $500 that he will spread out to the guys over time, so he doesn't lose his workers to town with cash. He would accept nothing as a tip. This is for a 10 day hunt. He said, and I quote "You pay me well and I pay them well" How refreshingly honest !!
I leave in July and am counting the days for my first safari.

Trophyman

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Tips a gift, whatever you tip is fine with us....

That is the best attitude about tipping that I have heard so far.

Agree completely. And with Saeed's comments.

Though Dan, as you suggested in an earlier post what happens to repeat hunters who are lousy tippers??? Do they get less opportunities?

And if a bloke has saved his arse off for the trip of a lifetime; well he should tell the PH and give what he can.

I've found that if you are a good bloke, lend a hand whenever and don't carry on like a princess then the PH etc will go the extra mile for you....................

I remember hearing about a client who arse shot a kudu, his PH chased the bloody thing for miles, put it down and when the client walked up he sneeringly remarked it was too small after all

I believe that there was nearly a "hunting accident"

I looked in the serch for this Topic. I just came back from a 10 day Hunt in the cape. I am one of the working men who saves and scrimps to go to africa. I gave as a tip what I could because I set a Budget for my self. we flew from the cape to Johanasburg and was met by the Outfitter and my friend . I could tell that something was wrong , I said to my fiance that something is up. while waiting for the saps to check my guns , My friend cornered me and said you shorted the skinner boy and the Ph. I said you can't tell me what and how much to tip. I said I paid for this trip and I was on a Budget and thats all I had . He said this is not 2004
you have to tip more I will lend you money. I said that I was on a Budget and I did not want to borrow any money. I also said that I told the PH I would send him some stuff we had talked about all hunt long. I found out it ws the PH that complained about my Tips. Well i say he cut his nose off to spite his face on that one. Send Him What nothing!!!!!!!!!!! I say if the Ph has to rely on tips to servive I think they are in the wrong job. I work Hard for my Money and in 27 yrs my all time high for a one time tip is $50 that was for spending extra time to repair a car after Hours so the customer had a ride for the next day.
So I say tip what you can , to each his own and if they don't like it tough.

The five pages on this thread have really provided some good information for my long dreamed of safari to Africa. I already have a grey beard so only need the big fat red suit as my safari clothes and forget about an airline ticket, the reindeer and sleigh will provide cheap transport. Oh of course mustn't forget the sack for the laptops, computer games, perfume, shoes, t-shirts, caps and all. Hope they have their little red socks out ready for stuffing with all the goodies. What size are the chimneys in Africa?

Nearly forgot to get a gun safe built into the sleigh for those Weatherbys and Colt 44s and other little give aways. Perhaps a liquor cabinet built in too for the 25 year old whiskeys and bourbons to keep the tone of the safari raised. Last but not least that big red suit will be just fine to hide the over-sized money belt containing the wads of cash in all currencies and denominations just to be sure I don't miss anyone out or offend them with the wrong type of palm greasing.

Thinking about I might just take the 7mm, renew my free permit to hunt anywhere on public land in my country, and go and knock over a few tahr, chamois or deer, maybe throw a few shots at the chopper that comes near with a bloated rich dickhead who hangs out the side with his fancy rifle taking potshots at game (I'm sure he tips well though).

Na, maybe I just call it a day and sit quietly with a nice whiskey and dream of how we used to work for a fair wage and experience the pleasure and joy of the outdoors with our fellow hunters without a thought or a worry of whether we were giving enough money or material things and whether we were being perceived as stingy bastards or someone that had to be treated like royalty because of the big fat wallet hovering in view.
Now I've gone and got depressed!!!!!

Blaser93, I agree with you. A tip is the perogative of the Client and PHs and staff should understand that ANY tip is a BONUS. Personally if any of our PHs confronted a client about his tip, his ears would ring for weeks!!!!

Having said all of the above, PHs and even more so ,Camp staff, do rely heavily on tips as part of their earnings and for the most part they are extremely grateful for anything received.This is fact and short of pushing daily rates up, there is not much that can be done about it. I do however agree with Mark Youngs comment earlier in this thread, that staff(PHs included) must learn that a tip is most certainly not compulsory.

I beleive that every client should be treated exactly the same and receive the same level of service irrespective of their tipping history, however I suppose it is human nature to do a bit extra for those who have tipped generously on previous visits. I doubt we will ever get around that.

Hope your next trip to Africa is enjoyable and your PH and staff appreciate anything and everything they receive as a tip.

The sad thing here in the Eastern Cape is that a number of young PHs are employed conditional to them providing a 4x4 vehicle. They are then remunerated for less than the hire rate of a 4x4. For many of them, tips are the only real income they receive, and that is why, once they marry and settle down they are forced to give up.
The other side of the coin is that American hunters are so popular is because of the tips. Other nationalities are a lot more frugal and tend to jam their hands into their pockets.

With great trepidation I wade into these waters. I must have a demented view of tipping. While I agree that tipping is a personal decision, for me, I have a hard time with the notion of skimping on the tip while paying thousands, if not tens of thousands, of dollars going on a safari. The reality is that if the hunter can afford to go on such a trip in the first place, the dollars represented by the tip typically mean far more to the standard of living of the person receiving the tip than to the tipper. Particularly in a situation where the PH and camp staff have literally baby sat you from the time you land to the time you leave. As for me, I would rather forego a trophy fee to leave room for a tip than to be miserly on the tip. I am not suggesting that tips are always earned, or that one should tip regardless of the caliber of the service, but I suspect that is truly the case only in a distinct minority of cases. I also think it makes a big difference in how you are perceived and viewed by the team in the event you ever intend to hunt with the outfit again. Treat others as you would like to be treated and not only will you make your Mother proud, but it will pay dividends down the line.

I would Like to thank all who posted here for the opions and advice. I am not oposed to big tips , if I were a power Ball winner of millions tips on the high end would be pocket change.

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:
Blaser93, I agree with you. A tip is the perogative of the Client and PHs and staff should understand that ANY tip is a BONUS. Personally if any of our PHs confronted a client about his tip, his ears would ring for weeks!!!!

Having said all of the above, PHs and even more so ,Camp staff, do rely heavily on tips as part of their earnings and for the most part they are extremely grateful for anything received.This is fact and short of pushing daily rates up, there is not much that can be done about it. I do however agree with Mark Youngs comment earlier in this thread, that staff(PHs included) must learn that a tip is most certainly not compulsory.

I beleive that every client should be treated exactly the same and receive the same level of service irrespective of their tipping history, however I suppose it is human nature to do a bit extra for those who have tipped generously on previous visits. I doubt we will ever get around that.

Hope your next trip to Africa is enjoyable and your PH and staff appreciate anything and everything they receive as a tip.

Quite Right! Blaser93's Professional hunter complaining to the other client about his tip was in horrible bad taste!! That should simply not have happened!!!

Over the years, I've had clients tip me so much I was embarassed (one so high ammount that I was sure he made a mistake, and pointed it out to him)....and some clients that should have themselves been embarassed by their very small tip. But like I tell my staff regards tips "that's life!...be happy with whatever gift you get."

As Zimfrosty correctly says: For many PH's this is their main job & scorce of income. Example: in Tanzania, where most hunting safaris are done July to mid November; if a PH did 4 - 21 day safaris (which is quite good in these days) based on salary alone, he would most likely still (I believe) be below poverty level income in America! (assuming his only employment) and I know quite a few PHs who do far less number of safari days per year.

Tip whatever you wish. but unless he's the owner of the company, please remember the PH probably makes a hell of a lot less income than the client, and any tip is really, truly appreciated!

I've commented on this thread before but one of the irksome things I've found is how the subject of tipping is handled by the safari operator.

I think for me the perfect way to handle it would be for the safari operator to not address tipping at all unless the client has brought it up. In reality I understand that some folks just would not tip if they thought that they could get away with it and some clients are just ignorant about tipping.

I have been made to feel that my tip was compulsory and here I think outfitters should take note as that just makes me more likely to tip less.

I think Mokore Safaris handled this the best in my experience. At safari's end I was asked what I thought about a tip for the camp staff and once I agreed that I thought a tip was in order our PH asked if he could make some suggestions. I agreed and made some adjustments to his recommendation as I saw fit. I think in practicality this was an excellent way to handle this. In sharp contrast a very well known outfit in Botswana presented me a list of 23 staff names and their jobs at safari's end and wanted me to fill in amounts. Some of these people had not even seen. My comment to that was "Bullshit".

I tend to tip the people that I know have enhanced my experience by their obvious hard work and attitude a litte more. One outfit told me I could not give these folks anything extra as it would cause discord throughout the camp. Once again "Bullshit". A tip is not part of the crew's wages. It is a gift for extra service that shows the folks tipped that you appreciate that extras service PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!

Mark

I think this tipping system is stupid and safari's should be quoted at what they are. If the PH needs more money...quote it in the price!!! Then...no one is dissapointed.

I am a professional and work in a service industry and am a leader in my field. To date...in ~20 years...no one yet has offered me a tip...nor...is one expected!

So because tipping is not accepted in the medical or other professional fields, that makes it inappropriate in other service industries? I do not buy that.

Mark: +1!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I think this tipping system is stupid and safari's should be quoted at what they are. If the PH needs more money...quote it in the price!!! Then...no one is dissapointed.

I am a professional and work in a service industry and am a leader in my field. To date...in ~20 years...no one yet has offered me a tip...nor...is one expected!

Bloody hell Lane are you expecting me as a PH to tip you? Can you give me a rough idea of how much this is going to cost me?

Agree with MJines it is a service industry and whilst I usually recommend a camp tip it really does depends on the quality of service all round.

But then again a tip is a tip and no where is this compulsory.

I think it's not good for a tip to be expected, but I'm also troubled that some would not include a tip or a tip range as an item on their hunt budget. If it's not deserved, then the hunter can choose not to give it. But what if the hunt goes incredibly well, or the PH goes above and beyond what was contemplated or agreed to, or even saves the hunter's life after the hunter recklessly (i.e., with conscious disregard for the instructions of the PH) screws up a shot and wounds something dangerous? The hunter who hasn't built that flexibility into his budget is left with no option other than to tell himself he doesn't believe in tips, or that the hunt was already very expensive. Again, tipping is a personal choice, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to buy a hunt that stretches one's budget so much that the choice is eliminated. Of course, some people, especially (but not exclusively) from countries other than the US, simply don't believe in tipping. And that's fine, too, albeit unfortunate for the professional hunter and his staff, who generally aren't getting rich in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
The other side of the coin is that American hunters are so popular is because of the tips. Other nationalities are a lot more frugal and tend to jam their hands into their pockets.

You could therefore argue that Americans are buying their popularity

There's nothing about it, its a cultural thing. I notice that when I'm in Spain, tips in restaurants amount to little more than rounding up the bill by a few euros max (cents if its tapas in a bar). Compare that to the UK and its close US influence where 10% might be considered a rule of thumb.

I should maybe add that perhaps the European attitude towards it is to do with having good social welfare, high tax and statutory minimum wages. There are also a great many occupations where no-one would ever expect to receive a tip, despite giving above and beyond' levels of service.

I agree with others, pay a reasonable wage, push up the daily rate if necessary or just accept a smaller margin if you are an outfitter, then the tips will get back to the sentiment of saying thanks rather than being a necessity. It is really down to American wage paying and tipping culture that tips are so widely expected.

quote:

Originally posted by TANZ-PH:
As Zimfrosty correctly says: For many PH's this is their main job & scorce of income. Example: in Tanzania, where most hunting safaris are done July to mid November; if a PH did 4 - 21 day safaris (which is quite good in these days) based on salary alone, he would most likely still (I believe) be below poverty level income in America! (assuming his only employment) and I know quite a few PHs who do far less number of safari days per year.

Tip whatever you wish. but unless he's the owner of the company, please remember the PH probably makes a hell of a lot less income than the client, and any tip is really, truly appreciated!

But still substantially more than the poverty line in whichever African country they choose to live and operate in. It isn't comparable. The cost of living, housing, etc is also substantially less. In other words, an average US wage in Africa would in most cases make you comparatively rich locally.

If it isn't possible to cover costs and make a reasonable/good living, they need to charge more or do something else. Tips shouldn't have to be relied upon...