quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I don't understand the reason for a difference between plains and Dg. Staff is staff, washing clothes is washing clother, waiting table is waiting table. Skinning is skinning.

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I honestly think this tipping business is getting out of hand, especially when it is stepulated that you SHOULD tip!

Tipping is to be a show of appreciation for doing something beyond what was expected.

And a reasonable effort by the PH and his staff is EXPECTED by the client for the hunt he has already paid for.

Some of us who can afford to go hunt every year can also afford to tip generously, but, what about the hunter who saves - probably for a number of years - and shops around to find a hunt that fits his pocket?

Is he expected to cough up the figures mentioned above?

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Originally posted by 500grains:
Just out of curiosity, if a client develops a reputation as an excessively frugal tipper, are the staff and PH less enthusiastic about finding him all the animals he wants /the best trophies on his next safari?

Would the safari company refuse to book a hunt for a client if it is known that he is tight with the tips?

In the case of Will's example of a camp in Zim that is north of Chewore South, it sounds like the staff's wages come from tips, not from the safari company. In that case, I feel sorry for the staff. Will should do the right thing and buy each of them a pair of Courtney Selous boots (with the WR label).

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Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

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Originally posted by T.Carr:
Tipping is out of hand. I don't think the $300-$500 staff tip for a 10 day elephant hunt in Zimbabwe is a "low" tip (based on that PH's recommendations and the guidelines provided to me by HHK for my upcoming hunt, but these are my only reference points). What amount of tips have your PHs recommended on past elephant hunts in Zimbabwe? The $1,000 tip to the PH was generous, but he did an excellent job and went beyond the normal on a couple of occasions, so I decided to reward for him his service. I would have had no problem tipping him $700-$800 (10% of Daily Rate) had he just been "good" versus "excellent". I also would have had no problem giving him no tip had he been a bad PH.

But honestly, if one goes to restaurant and gets good service one should leave a 15% tip. If one can't afford a 15% tip, then one needs to go eat fast food where no tip is expected. On the other hand, I recently ate at a restaurant and had bad food and lousy service, I left no tip and told the manager that his restaurant sucked.

I you have excellent service at a restaurant and can afford it, then leave a 20% tip. If some rich guys wants to leave a 50% tip, then more power to him. But I shouldn't feel bad because I give a 15% tip.

Whether we like it or not, tipping on safari is expected. Just like in a restaurant. It's part of the cost and one should factor that into the budget in advance.

Regards,

Terry

Terry
I'll try and find the lists tonight or tomorrow and post the numbers that were handed to me.

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First one the "bill" suggested to be paid was 5 @ $100 each and 2 @$50.00 each. El and 3 plains.

Second in the area Will refers to was 7@100$ + $300 to split amoung the "left outs".

Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns]

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Has any one tipped the staff other than the PH a small amount the day a special trophy is taken such as a cat or buff? This was twice suggested to me by a PH as proper. The suggested amount usually totals about $100.

Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns]

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Originally posted by SBT:
If however, we knew the daily wages the PH was actually makeing, 10% of that would be fine.

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Tanzania is one of the poorest countries in the world.

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If you are supposed to give a bonus when you take an exceptional animal, then what happens if I book a lion hunt and we don't see any lions worth shooting? Can I reduce the PH's tip by 50%? I mean, shouldn't it work both ways? PH benefits when we "hit gold" - PH loses when we "strike out".

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PHs can make anything from around $12,000 to $50,000 for a year or season.

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Originally posted by Ropes:

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PHs can make anything from around $12,000 to $50,000 for a year or season.

Do most of the PH's have a second job or is the cost of living that cheap in Africa?

I ask because that does not appear to be a lot of money, even when you add in the "WoW" effect of such a great job..

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Has any one tipped the staff other than the PH a small amount the day a special trophy is taken such as a cat or buff? This was twice suggested to me by a PH as proper. The suggested amount usually totals about $100.

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Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by SBT:
If however, we knew the daily wages the PH was actually makeing, 10% of that would be fine.

PHs can make anything from around $12,000 to $50,000 for a year or season.

A PH with solid experience in DG who works the full season in Tanzania will make around US$35,000 to US$50,000 for that season (if no cancellations). Considering the tax situation (is there any income taxes?) they are not necessarily bad off at all. PHs in South Africa might be lucky to make between $12,000 and $18,000 a year.

If I am wrongly informed I would be happy for someone directly informed to correct me.


***

My real and actual "tips" ( I hate that word).

1994 - 7 day Zim safari plains game.
Head tracker who worked very hard - Z$80 then about US$8
Other trackers (3 others) - Z$50 each - US$5
Cook and skinner - Z$50
Waiter - Z$10 - he was a complete dill but enthusiastic. This was an enthusiasm "tip" but not a service tip.
PH - nil - I did not even realise it was customary to "tip" a "professional" hunter.

The staff gifts were all based on what the PH recommended. Everyone worked hard. Everyone was happy except for the waiter and the PH. Later I found out why as I was told US$100 was customary by a money grubbing out of work PH which I thought was very excessive and over the top. But I regretted not giving him something as he did work hard.


***

Second safari to South Africa in 2002. I hunted with a friend and while he may have put some margins on the hunt basically it was meant to be at cost. I asked him how much he would have earned in this normal job for the time and then added at least 50% and that was his gift. He was very happy.

The tracker I gave maybe $20 too. Maybe less, as I aimed for the low side with him. While he was a good enough tracker he never did anything extra and often carried next to nothing when working back to the bakkie after a hunt or always had the lightist thing eg the shooting sticks. He wouldn't even carry water without being asked to do so every hunt.

The camp manager was a nice guy whom we gave a hard time (with jokes) because he said silly things (something about school girls which we twisted the wrong way ). I gave him a $50 in compensation for our entertainment and for a holiday back home after my safari. He was also the cook and very very good at it.

The waiters were funny, hard working and good guys, probably R100 each (about $15).

Everyone (surprise !) was very happy with these tips.


***

In 2002 in Zimbabwe (two different safaris):

Safari 1
The safari was interrupted by warvets. I did not tip anyone while there and as I had to buy a new safari (less refunds) I had no discretionary cash left. I later sent US$200 for the owner to handout as I felt sorry for these guys whom might be out of work from that day.

It was funny enough, in the middle of the mess I went to the hunting vehicle to retrieve something out of its glove box and met one of the staff (waiter?) who was a nice guy. I went to shake his hand and say thank you and good-bye. He was expecting cash to be in my hand! You have to be joking, there were ffffing apes running around with drugged out eyes and police protecting the monkeys with automatic rifles. BTW when retrieving my rifle from the bakkie I very gingerly took it making sure it was open and held non threatening. I was very closely watched by the police armed with FN-FALs. The same warvets tried to "confiscate" all the outfitters firearms for "safekeeping" so maybe I am lucky to have mine.

The second safari I paid probably around $20 to $30 to the tracker and gov't game scout each. Left another $50 in total for everyone else for the camp manager to hand out. I'm sure most of it got pocketed by him.

As for letting some manager "hand out" the tips for you. My experience is NEVER. I learned that lesson in Kenya on a game tour. We got together and worked out a tip for the staff. Put it all together, say $50 in total. It was given to the headman. I watched him and the bastard peeled off a $5 (equiv) and handed it to his assistant and kept $45 for himself. The poor guy looked really sad so I got together with some others and gave the poor sod a few dollars more. In third world countries the boss gets 95% of everything and the workers the crumbs. (Hell I'm becoming John-the-Greek ).

I didn't tip the PH as he was the owner and in reality part of the safari was a bit of a disaster even though it wasn't within his control. I would have handed him a considerable sum of money if he needed it to live on the other hand. I offered to help out if he needed to shift countries. But he said he was setup OK and he was. His wife did get an expensive bottle of perfume though which I brought over with me.


***

A tip of $50 a week for basic unskilled labour services ???

Lets look at this logically.

Per the CIA Fact book

quote:

Tanzania is one of the poorest countries in the world.

The average per capita income is $600 per year (on a purchasing parity basis).

Lets say the staff in a camp are paid some wages and tips do not form 100% of their wages. A season will run say 20 weeks or 140 days. Lets say their wages are between $1 and $2 per day by the outfitter. At 20 weeks that is say $280 wages in total (assuming he doesn't only get paid when clients are in camp).

In Tanzania lets say the employment rate (note employment rate not unemployment) is 30%. The average worker is luck to have any job at all.

Lets say a suggested tip is $50 per week. That is say for a client season say of 17 weeks $850.

So suggested "tips" are $850 compared to wages of $240.

On a 21 day safari the outfitter is paying say $42 wages and suggesting a $150 "tip". A 10% tip off $42 should be $4.20 to me, not 150 bucks.

I would probably give such a guy if it was personal service (you don't tip people you never meet) a $20 to $50 bill (for 3 weeks). I think they would still be happy as it is at least their wages again on top.

I might be very very wrong with my estimates but again someone with direct experience can easily correct me. Maybe my info and estimates are way out of date in the "new" and "modern" black Africa (?) If so I will retract.

What is a tracker or cook in Tanzania paid? In cash per day? What is a waiter paid in cash per day?

Another problem with percentage "tips" is while safaris are rocketed up in price year after year, the local workers and population's wages are not doing the same. Something to do with supply and demand I think. Excessive demand for safaris and endless supply of labour.


***

Someone mentioned a "guilt" trip over a PH getting killed. We all choose our careers so any risk is one's own. No one has to do it and last I saw it was still a popular profession with supply exceeding demand.

If a PH was killed where I was the client I would probably try to help in some way BTW. As that is proper.

***

OK now I am definitely in trouble having upset all the outfitters, but in the first world I am a capitalist. In the third world a socialist and humanist (at least only in thought) when you see the disparities in wealth and working conditions .

In the end it is - a Gift. You have paid the asked for price for the safari and anything on top is a gift. Makes it really really simple if you look at it that way, a gift. I actually like to give gifts too.

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
[
BTW, one suggestion I got from a Zim PH I asked a while ago was US$300 in total for 10 days of tuskless cow ele hunting. This would be devided for the 2 trackers, game scout, and the rest of the staff.

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"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

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Plains Game Safari:
1. Staff Tip - $20-$30 per day.
2. PH Tip - $30-$50 per day.

Dangerous Game:
1. Staff Tip - $30-$50 per day.
2. PH Tip - $70-$100 per day.

Exception to above: Full bag 21-28 days safaris in Tanzania, Zambia and Botswana may require a higher level of tipping than those stated above.

Staff Tip to be divided among the staff according to directions from your PH.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeh416Rigby:
Saeed, in this case, the elephant was hunted, but luck just wasn't with the hunter when it came to seeing a shootable bull. The same amount of work went into the hunt. I don't feel that a reduction in daily rate is justified.