Sincerely, I don't understand why so much hassle with the tip issue, is just a guft, an extra income and nothing more, nobody will work harder thinking in a better tip at the end of the hunt. A happy client doesn't means a good tip, it means more work for everybody in the future due to good reccomandations.

Sometimes a tip makes the difference to people who work in smaller or newer companies, because to get clients atention they must offer their services at lower prices, so at the end of the day a good tip helps but nobody should expect it, is not fair with the client!!

Saying that, I think that in a dangerous game hunt in Africa, where other persons give their best and take some risks, I will be happy to help them with their income with a tip inside my possibilities, NOT thinking if three or four dollars in Africa is too much money or not!!

L

The one thing we haven't really discussed on this thread is how the tip is given......which in some countries is at least as important as how much the tip is.......in some countries it's considered a lot more important.

Most "westerners" might not realise it, but many (perhaps most?) Africans consider us impolite to say the least.......How a tip is given is vitally important in some countries. (Especially for the PH who might be there for the entire season). Do it right and both he and you will gain enormous respect.....do it wrong and you're just another crass visitor. sure you'll still get treated really well but if you want them to go the extra mile when the shit hits the fan the only way to do it is to have the FULL respect of the staff.

So guys next time you want to give a tip please try to consider how it should be done and if necessary take the PHs advice on this......although I've gotta say that some PH's don't have much idea either.

What about a tip for the booking agent?

Fair is fair, after all.

why not just give me some $$ for going on the safari in the first place?
Seems fair enough considering some of the SA 1 season wonders I've had the misfortune to hunt with.

quote:

How a tip is given is vitally important in some countries

So, how do you do it properly?

Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
The one thing we haven't really discussed on this thread is how the tip is given......which in some countries is at least as important as how much the tip is.......in some countries it's considered a lot more important.

Most "westerners" might not realise it, but many (perhaps most?) Africans consider us impolite to say the least.......How a tip is given is vitally important in some countries. (Especially for the PH who might be there for the entire season). Do it right and both he and you will gain enormous respect.....do it wrong and you're just another crass visitor. sure you'll still get treated really well but if you want them to go the extra mile when the shit hits the fan the only way to do it is to have the FULL respect of the staff.

So guys next time you want to give a tip please try to consider how it should be done and if necessary take the PHs advice on this......although I've gotta say that some PH's don't have much idea either.

You wrong quite a few words and really said nothing about the subject you raise. Given the fact the entire issue of tips "sucks", what are your "recommendations" on how to do it? I am not talking quantity either!

I mentioned it in a previous post on this thread......but will do so again. A lot depends on which country you're hunting but as most of this thread has been about Tanzania I'll use that as an example.

The last night in camp you should sit down with your PH and compile a list of the staff YOU want to tip....and of course how much. Then you call each staff member forward one at a time.....starting with whoever you consider the most important.....ie - top tracker then gunbearer/2nd tracker followed by driver followed by head skinner then asst skinner and so on.

As each one comes forward you will shake him by the hand using the African handshake & greet him by name. Then thank him for his help and tell him how important his role has been in your hunt. If he can't speak English then ask the PH to translate your little speech. While this is going on you put the tip money in the palm of your right hand and at the end of the speech you give him a European handshake and he takes the money during that handshake.

All this takes a long time but Africans don't judge time the way we do and your politeness will be very much appreciated.

Tips to the PH & Game guard should be done seperatly & privately......either earlier on or on your morning of departure.

On the subject of the GG, the tip should very much reflect the help he's (or she's) given you during the hunt. some are really good and others are just a nightmare. I once had a (lady) GG decide she needed an urgent visit to the ladies room just as we were a couple of seconds behind a big tusker!........basically she just lost her courage!......I left her to it and carried on hunting - but needless to say she lost the hunting team's (including my) goodwill and as it turned out her tip as well.

These procedures are not so important in RSA & Mozambique but in East African countries and Botswana etc it is considered to be the correct way of doing things.

hope that helps guys.

quote:

While this is going on you put the tip money in the palm of your right hand and at the end of the speech you give him a European handshake and he takes the money during that handshake.

Steve,
It sounds very much like tipping the 'Keeper at the ends of a days driven pheasant shooting!

As an aside, I have a friend who is a keeper and he can tell what denomination the folded note is as it is being passed to him during the handshake...I did not believe this but we tested him one night and he got it right four out of four times, don't ask me how...

Regards,

Pete

quote:

hope that helps guys.

It does, thanks.

Canuck

OK, I think I got it.
When I check in with the Outfitter, I will be given a sheet with the "Suggested" amount to tip.
This amount is equal (+-) to a months, normal salary for these folks. I'm expected to "tip" that amount?
I'm kinda out of the loop on this, but I thought a normal tip was 10% to 15% of the bill? So if a PH makes $125 a day, a normal tip would be $12.50+ per day. Thats $125.0+ for a 10 day hunt.
I must then be sure to comply with the accepted method of passing this gratuity to the worker? Your kidding, Right?
How about, "Hey, (Insert proper name here), I appreciate the help you gave me on this hunt, here's a little extra for that. (Look him in the eye, and give him the money.)
Thank You. "
Would that work? Or did I just violate the "Outfitters" code of tipping?
I lead a sheltered life, and I'm having a problem with the above posts. I guess I need help dragging my ass into the 21 Century.
Here's how I look at it. I'm the customer, I'll tip what ever I think is fit, if it isn't enough, tough noogies. Don't book me next year.

Steve,

Why is a game guard different? In my Southern African safaris the game guards have always been treated the same as trackers. They usually did the same job during the safaris too.

I like your idea of handing it out personally to each guy. After all it is for personal service. That is what I did on my first and also my last Zim safari. Except for some of the 'extra' guys on the last one which I hoped the camp manager shared the 'extras' tip with.


PeteE

What is the standard tip for the Gamekeeper on a day's driven pheasant shooting these days?

In my days in England it was a five pound note at the end of the day. Would be interesting to see how the tip for a Gamekeeper in a first world country compares to a tip for a tracker in an improverished third world country.

John,

A GG is an employee of the Government and officially takes no part in the hunt other than as an impartial observer who is there to ensure the hunt doesn't breach the game laws...... As you know - some do exactly that. No more and no less and others play a full part in the hunting team work.

How about we hunters whom discuss and travel to Africa most often start a "new" poilcy....we just don't tip!! Easy enough,shake everyone hand before leaving camp look them in the eye and say, "thank you you helped make my trip here wonderful"
Use the tip $ you saved to buy that pretty girl in the airport lounge a few drinks ;>

I am going to Namibia with Kalahari Hunting Safaris in August. The hunt cost $5000 for ten animals and ten days of hunting.

I had planned on giving about $500 in total tips. Something like $300 for the PH and 200 for the staff?????? How does that sound?

D99 if that is what you are comfortable with fine, do it.
May I suggest an only as a suggestion, that if the $500 is US denomination you may wish to convert $200 to Rands (approx. 1300 Rand) and give that amount to the support team, dispersed as you feel it was merited. The other $300 in US to the PH, which is a a good tip for both the staff an the PH.
This is only my suggestion but is about what I do on my 10 day PG trips to Kamanjab area in Namibia. Wyn

quote:

...hunt cost $5000 for ten animals and ten days of hunting. I had planned on giving about $500 in total tips. Something like $300 for the PH and 200 for the staff?????? How does that sound?

The "effective" day rate for the hunt might be in the neighborhood of $250/day, and following the "10% rule" for plainsgame hunts, $300 is a fine tip. Ditto on the $20/day for the staff.

quote:

Is this sufficient or will I be considered a cheapskate?

Unless you go over the top with your tip, you'll be considered cheap. After all we are all "Rich Americans" in the eyes of African's.

I'm sick of hearing, "that sure is a nice rifle" over and over or "that sure is a nice backpack, I really need to get one like that, where did you get it" over and over seeing what they can get you to leave for them. And then at the end of a hunt getting a list of 15 people, of which I recognize 2 names, with a recommended tip amount associated with each of them.

I have no clue who cooked my meal, I have no clue who did my laundry, I have no clue who boiled my skulls? Why am I tipping them? "Damn nice job boiling that skull, here's $50" LOL! Um, that's your job, there is not above and beyond the call of duty when boiling a skull, is there? Yet we are expected to tip everyone that has been remotely involved in your hunt.

If it was like that in the U.S., I'd be tipping the guy that washed my dishes at the restaurant, tipping, the dry cleaner for doing a good job cleaning my suits, tipping the oil change guy for doing a good job getting the drain plug back in etc...

I was even told once after I tipped the ph $450 for a 7 day plains game hunt that the last persone tipped $1500, what the hell's up with that?

Is it just me, or does every African expect the "Rich American's" can afford to just throw money around?

Where are my tips??? I get paid the same whether I work 40hrs or 60hrs, I get paid to do my job, whatever it takes on a give week. Yet, if a PH does his job and get's you your animals, he has somehow went above and beyond and needs a tip. Um, if you need to tip because he got you your animals, what were you paying him for in the first place?

Just, quote me a total price so I can pay it and not worry that somehow I slighted anyone.

Well said GMaxson, I agree!

GMaxson:
I agree. The PH we hunted with in Namabia refused a tip, he also advised against giving a tip to the owner of the farm where we hunted. He did say $100US each, to his two trackers/drivers was fine. We killed 14 animals and paid tips amounting to $200US for two hunters.
We never felt pressured to tip a certain amount. Maybe you need to hunt with someone else?

quote:

Originally posted by GMaxson:
I'm sick of hearing, "that sure is a nice rifle" over and over or "that sure is a nice backpack, I really need to get one like that, where did you get it" over and over seeing what they can get you to leave for them.

I consider such comments grossly rude.

This is what I would do.

"Hey mate, you really like this back pack? Tell you what I will do, I will send you one over from home. I'll just knock the price off the safari cost and we will be square."

And I wouldn't hunt with that company again in any case if they badgered me for tips. All the guys I have hunted with have been fine and not mentioned tips till I asked them what was reasonable. Then if you don't like what they say, its your own problem. Do what you want anyway.

Pretty f$$king arrogant, Terry. A tip is for great or extraordinary service. Not a percentage "tax" on an already inflated price. It shouldn't be expected-it should be a nice surpprize.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Tipping is a confusing and ill defined element of the safari experience. I wish it were not that way. Many are hesitant to provide advice regarding tipping. I am not, I will tell you my opinion (based on limited experience). But it is just my opinion, nothing more.

A tip should be based on three things:

1. Guidelines provided by the outfitter/PH. They should give you a range (as my PH did in Zimbabwe, "for the staff, between $300 and $500 for a ten day elephant hunt").

2. The level of service you received.

3. Your ability to pay. If the PH says "between $300 and $500" and one can only afford $300 and one guy can afford $500, then you shouldn't feel bad because you can only afford $300. Some guy might tip the staff a $1,000 under the same circumstances, just because he can afford it.

Regards,

Terry

P.S.
Just because you cut your budget too short is no reason to tip poorly. If you planned this safari, then you should have planned a reasonable amount for tips into the budget. If you can't pay a reasonable tip, then you need to stay home until you can save enough money to adequately pay all the costs of safari.

The thing that deserves to be mentioned is the tipping of XX %. Who decides the percentage? Of course a waiter wants the biggest percentage he can get. I often never give more than 10 % unless the service is surpurb which is rarely the case and and won't add
more than 25$$$ to the bill. That is a far cry from a $2000.00 tip that could ultimately be a deal breaker. Do they want to sell a hunt or not-it comes down to that. If your more interested in the tip, you are on the wrong end of the business.
This year I am going to give one tip to the PH with instructionsto divide it as he sees appropriate. I will tell the staff that I have left their tips with the PH. Let him get the headache of sorting it out.
What I do not understand about all of this tipping stuff is that most people do not hesitate to tip 15% for a 1 hour dinner, $20 tip to have your car valet, $5-$10 tip to have food delivered to your room at a hotel, $1 tip to a bar tender every time you order a drink, $10 to a bagage handler at an airport, $5 to a taxi driver etc etc etc etc. which are very quick services which do not take much time, BUT people do not want to tip very much towards a PH and trackers who put their lives on the line

The camp staff work everyday 14-16 hours a day for a client and are at the clients beckon call and try to make them feel like kings. I do not think that it is fair to assume that just because you are in a third world country that people are worth any less than here in the US

I am 100% for tipping according to how a client considers his safari. If the client did not have a good time and did not like the service, then DO NOT tip the staff, and that might open their eyes for the next safari. But if a client has a great safari and liked the service that they got, then tip the staff just like you would anywhere else and show them that you appreciate their friendly and excellent service.

I can not speak for other outfitters, but we do pay our staff very well and they do know that tipping is only a bonus for them. When someone gets tipped, they are being told that they did a great job and that you appreciate their hard work, and it is confidence booster no matter where you are in the world. As a PH myself, and if comes down to it, I do not need a tip, but a tip is something that I look forward to as it tells me that my client enjoyed his or her hunt and they are satisfied with the job that I did. I have had a few clients not tip me in the past because they said I was the owner and did not need a tip. They were right in a way that I did not need it to get paid, but it really is demoralizing as you then wonder what you did wrong Your client shot a very big lion and everythinbng else and I did not get tipped because I was the owner? That is not the point of tipping is it? You tip because you are satisfied and like the service you got and a way to say thank you for your hard work well done

Did not mean to go on rampage here, but hope that my simple opinion makes some sense from the other side of the fence.[/QUOTE]

lb404,

It's no different than going to a restaurant. If you only have $5, then don't order the $5 hamburger and leave nothing as a tip for the waitress.

Tipping is expected in the safari business, it's not my rule, it is just the way the system works.

Regards,

Terry

Terry you said a gem I wonder how many other caught it,too. "...tipping is expected..." IMHO that is the root of the problem. No one suggestes T. Carr is the founder of that expectation an only the weak minded would believe you are the cause of it!
Sure I know when I go to a resturant an order a $5 burger it is assumed I will not forget a tip for good (even mediocore) service but at most burger barns it is not listed as a add on to the cost of the burger.
I seriously doubt anyone doesn't leave some amount of tip on a safari. Wyn

Boy, you guys have sure given me a lot to think about. Rant to follow...
My first thought was "10% of the cost of this safari is a lot of friggin' $$$$, but, if that's how it's done, Okie-doke!". Then, after reading all of these o-p-i-n-i-o-n-s I'm no less confused than I was before reading them.
I really liked GMaxson's point - I also get paid the same (very well, but, nonetheless, the same) to get the job done no matter how many hours/days it takes, without a tip/bonus. That was the agreement I made (my contract) with my employer. And he doesn't give a crap that it costs me nearly double to put gas in my car as it did 6-8 months ago.
Second, I'm paying one t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d dollars per day to one guy, who, admittedly, is placing his life on the line to protect me - if it comes to that, to guide me, plus more fees than a New York Congressman could come up with for a total bill of 12-15 grand for 7 days. Then, I'm "expected" to pay at least another $1200 on top of that or I will be thought ill of? I had a guy build me a garage for $23 grand and I didn't feel the need to tip/pay HIM an extra 10%. His profit margin was built in to his quote.
As far as "if you can't pay a reasonable tip, stay home"...that would be laughable if the writer weren't serious. That implies that, like some sub-minimum wage waitress, that these people (PH, Skinner, driver) depend on tips to make ends meet and that it's my fault for wanting to spend a huge sum of money with their business. I find that hard to believe. Am I wrong?
I've read here that the PH "went beyond the normal"...what the hell does that mean?? We're on a dangerous game hunt here, "normal" on a DG hunt would seem to be in the extreme. Also, that a PH "seemed pleased" with a $1000 tip. I hope to Jeezus he was. If any of you "big tippers" want to give me a thousand bucks I'll show you what "pleased" looks like.
I'm leaning towards Ballbuster's suggestion that "we just don't tip!!"
Thank you for letting me share.

After that rant I had to go watch the opening scene to "Resevoir Dogs".

Dave

The situation is that it has been done for so long, that it is pretty much expected - just like the guy who insists on carrying your bags a few feet at a nice hotel. If you are going to be a part of the "hunting community" you might as well bite the bullet and take a few hundred (or few thousand as the case may be)along for tips. If it is a one time thing - "the hunt of a lifetime", I guess you could get by alright without tipping. You may never see the guy again. But the non-tipper is gonna bear a stingma thereafter, and they do remember. Just a cost of doing business with PH's. And, yes I think it has gotten out of hand, but I don't see it changing.

I think you need to decide before you leave what you will tip if everything goes well. After the safari give it to your ph and ask him to distribute it according to his best judgement. If thats not good enough go somewhere else next time.

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:
....... But the non-tipper is gonna bear a stingma thereafter

Only if one CHOOSES to bear it.
Dave

Why should I care what some PH in Africa thinks of me. I think a tip should be some thing you give to reward for a good job.
I am a poor working stiff we went to SA on a plains game hunt we ask what to tip and followed the owners guide lines. It was 250 for the PH and 50 US for the staff. We stayed at two other lodges a couple of nights I tipped them we had great service.
The biggest danger the PH faced was driving to the hunt area and I was in the truck with him. They all did a great job I feel like I treated them well they returned it if they feel like I was cheap so be it. I sure am not going to worry about that also I am not going to leave a big tip to try and buddy up with them.
Sounds like to me some hunting consults and Safria operators dont want the poor guys like me coming thats ok just say that up front I dont have a problem staying home.

I gave my PH a tip!!! Pierre, only hunt the rich guys!

For those who are old enough to remember the old Las Vegas showrooms, back before they had assigned seating, you slipped the guy who seated you a little "gratuity" and you got a better seat. Slip him enough and you and your girl set center front row. Money talks.

What does "PH" stand for?

quote:

Originally posted by Monticello:
What does "PH" stand for?

Professional Hunter

Not tipping a waitress means she will not earn enough money to pay her rent (if it happens enough). Not tipping a PH means essentially the same thing. These fellows are underpaid and are paid in the local currency which in some countries is of questionable value. Often the only way they can get ahead at all is through tips. Sad but true. I waste more money in a year eating out for lunch than we are talking about in tips, so what the heck.

Ray is probably the best example of all as far as tips are concerned, because he said he is giving his double rifle to his PH in his will.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Some new information regarding tipping. Below is the information from a printed sheet as given to me by Swainson's Safari.

GUIDELINE TO GRATUITIES:

NOTE:

• Camp Staff includes all Company Skinners, Cooks, Waiters and General Staff.
• Private Trackers are those employed by solely by the respective PH. Please speak to your PH as to who are his private Trackers.
• The suggested amounts are merely intended as a guideline and can be applied at your discretion.
  
• This guideline is per hunting client.
  
• Observers +/- 10% of total daily rate.
  
• When considering gratuities, please consider the number of days and the number of camps utilized.

7 Day Buffalo

Camp Staff $100-$140
Trackers/Skinners $30-$60
Catering Manageress $70-$100
Learner PH $70-$80
PH $700-$800

10 Day Buffalo/Plains Game

Camp Staff $150-$200
Trackers/Skinners $50-$80
Catering Manageress $100-$150
Learner PH $100-$120
PH $1,000-$1,200

12 Day Elephant

Camp Staff $150-$200
Trackers/Skinners $60-$90
Catering Manageress $120-$160
Learner PH $120-$140
PH $1,200-$1,400

14 Day Buffalo/Sable

Camp Staff $200-$230
Trackers/Skinners $70-$90
Catering Manageress $140-$180
Learner PH $140-$150
PH $1,400-$1,500

14 Day Buffalo/Leopard

Camp Staff $250-$300
Trackers/Skinners $80-$100
Catering Manageress $150-$190
Learner PH $140-$160
PH $1,400-$1,600

15 Day elephant/Buffalo

Camp Staff $250-$300
Trackers/Skinners $80-$110
Catering Manageress $150-$190
Learner PH $140-$170
PH $1,500-$1,700

18 Day Lion/Buffalo

Camp Staff $300-$350
Trackers/Skinners $100-$130
Catering Manageress $200-$250
Learner PH $180-$200
PH $1,800-$2,000

21 Day Elephant/Leopard/Buffalo

Camp Staff $300-$400
Trackers/Skinners $120-$150
Catering Manageress $210-$300
Learner PH $210-$250
PH $2,100-$2,500

Regards,

Terry

I dont think a safari company has any right to publish a list to help anybody with tipping. They should answer questions when asked and otherwise the subject shouldnt be raised by them as it is downright rude. Remember some european customers dont tip and thats fine and dandy.

When you visit a country, do you follow the customs in that country or do you follow the customs in your own country?

They don't tip in Australian restaurants, so when I go to Australia, I won't tip. When an Australian comes to the US, I would think they would want to tip in an American restaurant. It is customary to tip in an American restaurant, just because you normally don't tip in your own country is no reason not to follow the customs in the country you are visiting.

I talked to several PHs in ZIM about this very issue. They have heard it before. "It's an American thing to tip, we don't tip in our country." They said it is NOT an American thing, it is an African thing and in every African country it is customary to tip when on safari.

Personally, I don't care whether you tip, just letting you know how some PHs feel about.

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

quote:

21 Day Elephant/Leopard/Buffalo

Camp Staff $300-$400
Trackers/Skinners $120-$150
Catering Manageress $210-$300
Learner PH $210-$250
PH $2,100-$2,500

Is that $300 to $400 per camp staff person, or divided among them?

$120 to $150 per tracker, or to be divided among them?

It's not clear from the document, but I would guess Total (to be divided among them) for the camp staff. Not sure about the Trackers/Skinnners either, I guess it would depend on whether the PH has his own trackers. But to me, it looks like the amount you would tip the top two trackers individually. Also, no mention of the Game Scout, who usually gets something.

Regards,

Terry