OK Another related question. If you are doing a Father/Son 2 x 1, trip is it fully 2x the tip also? My PH implied such at the end of my last Tanzanian buffalo hunt. I figured 1200 for the PH and 600 to divide among the staff. He seemed a bit put out. I ended up buying some parts for the Land Cruiser to boot as it died the day our safari ended. SO how do you figure a 2x1 tip with father/son? Thanks D

7mm,

You can let your Dad shoot your Wildebeest. I have a client going over with me next month, he has never been to Africa, he said he just wants or can just afford a couple of critters. I'm going for Leopard, Giraffi, Waterbuck, bushbuck, grysbok and lots of Baboons! What he wants to shoot is fine with me.

Now next time he goes, he can do the regular Plains Game hunt. I know he'll be back!!

What I do not understand about all of this tipping stuff is that most people do not hesitate to tip 15% for a 1 hour dinner, $20 tip to have your car valet, $5-$10 tip to have food delivered to your room at a hotel, $1 tip to a bar tender every time you order a drink, $10 to a bagage handler at an airport, $5 to a taxi driver etc etc etc etc. which are very quick services which do not take much time, BUT people do not want to tip very much towards a PH and trackers who put their lives on the line

The camp staff work everyday 14-16 hours a day for a client and are at the clients beckon call and try to make them feel like kings. I do not think that it is fair to assume that just because you are in a third world country that people are worth any less than here in the US

I am 100% for tipping according to how a client considers his safari. If the client did not have a good time and did not like the service, then DO NOT tip the staff, and that might open their eyes for the next safari. But if a client has a great safari and liked the service that they got, then tip the staff just like you would anywhere else and show them that you appreciate their friendly and excellent service.

I can not speak for other outfitters, but we do pay our staff very well and they do know that tipping is only a bonus for them. When someone gets tipped, they are being told that they did a great job and that you appreciate their hard work, and it is confidence booster no matter where you are in the world. As a PH myself, and if comes down to it, I do not need a tip, but a tip is something that I look forward to as it tells me that my client enjoyed his or her hunt and they are satisfied with the job that I did. I have had a few clients not tip me in the past because they said I was the owner and did not need a tip. They were right in a way that I did not need it to get paid, but it really is demoralizing as you then wonder what you did wrong Your client shot a very big lion and everythinbng else and I did not get tipped because I was the owner? That is not the point of tipping is it? You tip because you are satisfied and like the service you got and a way to say thank you for your hard work well done

Did not mean to go on rampage here, but hope that my simple opinion makes some sense from the other side of the fence.

D Hunter sounds like you have done like a guy I heard in a resturant did he ordered one beer paid his two dollars for it left a dollar tip.
The guy working the bar ask him is that all you are going to leave? He said no picked up his dollar and stuck it in his pocket.
You tipped for a service and it sounded fair to me. Next time hunt with someone who is glad to have your money.

Adam and Steve,

I certainly appreciate your viewpoints, but neither of you gave any guidelines regarding how much to tip.

Why not? Certainly, based on the hundreds of safaris you guys have guided you can offer some guidelines.

I mean, take out the rich guys who tip over the top and take out the cheap guys who tip little or nothing and give us an average range.

How much to tip the staff on a plainsgame only hunt and on a DG hunt? How much to tip the PH on a plains game only hunt and on a DG hunt? Just give us a range or all you comments regarding tipping have no empirical value.

What do you tell your clients when they ask, "How much should I tip?"

Regards,

Terry

Adam,

Do you think the $100 per day figure for tipping the PH applies equally to a $700/day buff hunt as well as to a $1500/day lion hunt, and to a $2K/day 85 pound elephant hunt in a hot elephant area?

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Tipping is a confusing and ill defined element of the safari experience. I wish it were not that way.....

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
I personally have a problem with the statement that the guy that doesn't pay enough should stay home.

Double Amen! If this was the case they would be mandatory and included on the safari quotation.


I really wish the USA would clean up its labour laws and remove the master / slave relationships and antagonism. Then the rest of the world would drop it too.

In Australia I really like going to a restaurant and paying the bill and pocketing the change. And getting a cheery thankyou not a grumpy insult. Or going to a pub and paying for a beer with the correct money and not have to pay over the top so the bar man can earn a decent living. He gets it in wages. Porters at hotels just carry your bags - for free! unless you have an American accent. Taxi drivers try to steal your change but it is theft and the good ones don't expect anything even if they load up your luggage for you. And most of these fellows all have a nice house in a nice suburb off their wages which pay for their living. What a paradise!

***

This subject comes up every month which really says something to me about the subject. To me a tip is a gift and only that.

Also I can never reconcile the word "Professional" as in "Professional Hunter" with the word "tip". To me they are a contradiction in terms and standards. I never have tipped a "professional accountant" or a "professional engineer". Not even a "professional lawyer" event though they always have their hand out. What I have done and had done for me as well is an occasional nominal gift like a nice restaurant meal or a bottle of wine.

I think I will do a phone around some Aussie safari hunters and find out what the real world does.

I have always paid the workers cash tips (but never substitute wages) as they are poor in comparison but never a "Professional" Hunter and never an outfitter whose lifestyles usually easily exceed mine. I think physical gifts are nice for PHs as long as they aren't too bulky.

That's my opinion even if it contary to 99% of the posters here and will not change a thing.

7mm.Guy,

If your Father is going along as a non hunting observer you would have to ask your PH if he will be allowed to shoot the wildebeest - but I would be suprised if he said no.

Terry,

I did quote suggested minimum figures for a 7 day Tanzanian hunt of US$50/40/30 per person. (For the 3 grades) I didn't mention PH tips however as I didn't think it appropriate........but if I were pushed to suggest a figure for a tip to one of our other PHs (on the same 7 day basis) I would say that something around US$400-500 should be considered the minimum.

I think that many clients don't know if they should tip the company owner or not and can fully understand that and I don't have a problem either way. It's their money - and all I hope is that they have had a good enough hunt to want to book with us again ........and pretty much all of them do......

At the end of the day if a client only has enough money to take all the animals on the licence and not give a tip or take all but one or two and save the money for tips I would prefer him to take all the animals, If money is not a problem then it's his decision.

We cover this subject (amongst many others) in our "Handy Little Hunting Book" which we give to our clients when they book with us and in this we largely (with his kind permission) quote Craig Boddington's "The Safari Experience".......and this book makes great reading for anyone considering a safari.

Just to add to the confusion; what if the PH is the outfitter hunting his own land? The type of ranch hunting situation in Namibia and RSA.

Would a tip be insulting to him? You don't offer tips to the restaurant owner.

Gentlemen,

I honestly think this tipping business is getting out of hand, especially when it is stepulated that you SHOULD tip!

Tipping is to be a show of appreciation for doing something beyond what was expected.

And a reasonable effort by the PH and his staff is EXPECTED by the client for the hunt he has already paid for.

Some of us who can afford to go hunt every year can also afford to tip generously, but, what about the hunter who saves - probably for a number of years - and shops around to find a hunt that fits his pocket?

Is he expected to cough up the figures mentioned above?

If the answer is yes, then I think we are heading the way hotels and restaurants are, where they add that 15% service charge for a service they hardly ever deliver.

We would then end up with some situation where the client will refuse to pay this service charge - just as some of us have done in so called 5-star hotels.

Imagine the arguments that will insue then.

Saeed,

I'm glad you said it, as I get tired of repeating myself!

Tips are still tips to me. It is not a guaranteed payment or any set amount.

In one of the posts above I see a $500 tip for the PH for a 7-day plainsgame hunt, minimum. Ha! Keep dreaming.

In a well setup homestead like camp with chalets, swimming pool and lovely gardens, I always wonder what the appropriate tip is for the assistant gardener? Afterall I enjoy the green well cut lawns, the lovely flowers on the borders of the walks, the bamboo stands and palm trees. Really quite delightful. I only wish he would come and work for me at home.


***


Saeed, very well said.


***


BTW on my last safari I offered to give the outfitter a reasonable sum of money to give to his staff. Not as a tip but because they had all just been illegally turned off the property and in effect were unemployed, possibly homeless and facing starvation I thought a few $$$ might be the proper thing to do.

The outfitter said it wasn't necessary as he would still be employing them as he hoped to get back on. I did give what he recommended as his standard staff weekly "tip" of US$200 even though it sounds very suspiciously like wages to me. Some of these guys are probably homeless and unemployed now.

NitroX,

I agree with you also. Many PH/outfitters cry poor mouth but live better than I, and I am suppose to be tipping them?!

And in my opinion there is so much money being made in Tanz that it seems absurd to tip anyone.

And when the PH or outfitter suggests a tip amount, it's wages not tips.

I am just a working guy who has a dream of hunting dangerous game in Tanzania. To do so, I am on, and have been on, a steady savings plan. I am denying myself considerable in the way of discretionary spending. And, I work all the overtime I can get. Usually 10-15 hours a week. As such, it has taken me and is continuing to take me several years before I can pay for my safari.

As such, it is terribly difficult to pay the type of gratuities listed here, especially when hunting dangerous game. The cost of the daily rate on a dangerous game safari is already 4 times the cost of a plains game safari, even though we will spend many days hunting plains game. Then, the suggested protocol is to double the tip and give the PH a minimum of $2,100? I think not. I appreciate the suggestions made, but I truly hope that my PH understands how hard I have work just to get there and that my personal financial condition does not reflect how much I appreciate his dedication and hard work. I'll tip what I can, but the suggestions here are just too high for men of my financial standing.

I will be going to RSA next month for 14 days of plains game hunting and marlin fishing. My intention was to tip the PH about $700, and to give him an additional $400 to distribute among his staff. Is this sufficient or will I be considered a cheapskate?

Terry,
Since tipping is just anexpected part of hunting why don't we see it (a guideline or chart) on the company's price list? If it is just factored in as part of their salaries, be up front about it & eliminate putting clients in an uncomfortable spot.

I tip what I can, I guess judging by the quantity of hunting "friends" that seem to frequent our home when they come state side, the sincerity of the gratuity given must carry some weight also instead of just the quantity, I think I have cultivated friendships, not just bought their time.

I personally find "tipping time" to be uncomfortable & would much rather have it listed right out in the open as an "added cost", than to get caught short in comparison to more wealthy & capable clients.

I could go on and on ... no one tips me for doing my job.. bla bla bla...(grumbling & muttering off into the sunset wryly with tongue in cheek)


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by patrkyhntr:
I will be going to RSA next month for 14 days of plains game hunting and marlin fishing. My intention was to tip the PH about $700, and to give him an additional $400 to distribute among his staff. Is this sufficient or will I be considered a cheapskate?

Just my opinion, but that sounds like a nice tip for a plains game safari. It works out to be $50/day for the PH and $28.50/day for the staff. My personal general guidelines on plains game safaris are 10% of the Daily Rate to the PH and $20-$30/day for the staff. Personally, I would probably never tip a PH more than $40/day for a plains game hunt in South Africa (because I think the Daily Rates there are sometimes over priced - but that is just me).

Regards,

Terry

Saeed I agree with you and Nitrox.

quote:

Originally posted by ibexebi:
Terry,
Since tipping is just anexpected part of hunting why don't we see it (a guideline or chart) on the company's price list? If it is just factored in as part of their salaries, be up front about it & eliminate putting clients in an uncomfortable spot.

I tip what I can, I guess judging by the quantity of hunting "friends" that seem to frequent our home when they come state side, the sincerity of the gratuity given must carry some weight also instead of just the quantity, I think I have cultivated friendships, not just bought their time.

I personally find "tipping time" to be uncomfortable & would much rather have it listed right out in the open as an "added cost", than to get caught short in comparison to more wealthy & capable clients.

I could go on and on ... no one tips me for doing my job.. bla bla bla...(grumbling & muttering off into the sunset wryly with tongue in cheek)


Mike

Mike,

I agree, why not get this out in the open? Because, if every outfitter set a suggested list of tips on their website, it might mean that those rich clients wouldn't give them outrageous tips. And it might mean that it would scare off those clients who are on a tight budget.

Any good oufitter should give a general guideline before you book a safari, if you ask.

I wonder how this tipping all started?

In a 1956 article in Field & Stream, Robert Ruark said that the cost of liquor (for the entire safari), hotel expenses in Nairobi ($6.00 per day including meals), clothes bought in Nairobi and tips should add about $200 to the safari cost. You do not tip your white hunter.

So, somewhere between 1956 and now, it has become expected to tip your PH.

Regards,

Terry

Thanks for the reply, Terry. I do appreciate it.

Saeed is correct, tipping is out of hand world wide. Example restaurant owner lets say nets $250.000 for the year, but his patrons proved part of his labor costs via the tip. As to tiping 15% is outlandish 10% is fine. My first job was bus boy in a restaurant and the tip was 10%. You could get a fine dinner for $2.95 now that dinner could cost say $14.95 before the tip would be $.30 now at 10% $1.50 why 15%. I would never tip the owner acting as my PH he has saved the cost of a PH and you usually have to allow for his time taking care of mgmt projects during the hunt. Oh by the way I am in the service industry and own my practice and I never get tipped and don't exspect to be tipped.`

Adam- I hope your plains game tip suggestions are site specific to Tanz. I did the math and came up with $850 for 7 days. In RSA or Namibia?I have based mine on 10% of daily plus $25 or so for each staff(not the hangers on).

When I have hunted a certain area in Zim that is along the Zambezi north of Chewore South it was "expected" to tip the staff $100. When I questioned that it was explained that "the staff depend on the tips." So tips are wages, pure and simple.

So it depends on whether you want to pay it up front or not. I guess it is easier to sell cheaper hunts with expected big tips!

The PH is on his own. My tip: Don't buy Enron stock!

TIPS: To Insure Prompt Service. That's what I was always told a tip was.

BTW- a baggage handler gets $1 for each bag, not $10 each from me. Yep, I am cheap but hey, if you are taking my item 45 yards on a cart that's easy work. If I have to go up to the bar and order a drink - no tip. If you come and take my order and bring it to me, yep, maybe .50. Drinks are too expensive as it is to warrant a big tip to anyone.

I personally believe as Nitro X does, figure the costs into the safari, pay the employees what they should get and forget tipping. I don't get tips for saving lives and putting criminals away. That's dangerous big game in my book too. Why should anyone else get a tip? I don't even make a reasonable salary as it is and have to work a large share of overtime.

Are any of the professionals on the site willing to tell us how much the PH receives as wages for a typical 10 day plains game and a typical 10 day dangerous game hunt? I realize use of the PH's own vehicle has an influence on the amount. If anyone will respond, I suspect we will be surprised how low that amount might be.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Tipping is out of hand. I don't think the $300-$500 staff tip for a 10 day elephant hunt in Zimbabwe is a "low" tip (based on that PH's recommendations and the guidelines provided to me by HHK for my upcoming hunt, but these are my only reference points). What amount of tips have your PHs recommended on past elephant hunts in Zimbabwe? The $1,000 tip to the PH was generous, but he did an excellent job and went beyond the normal on a couple of occasions, so I decided to reward for him his service. I would have had no problem tipping him $700-$800 (10% of Daily Rate) had he just been "good" versus "excellent". I also would have had no problem giving him no tip had he been a bad PH.

But honestly, if one goes to restaurant and gets good service one should leave a 15% tip. If one can't afford a 15% tip, then one needs to go eat fast food where no tip is expected. On the other hand, I recently ate at a restaurant and had bad food and lousy service, I left no tip and told the manager that his restaurant sucked.

I you have excellent service at a restaurant and can afford it, then leave a 20% tip. If some rich guys wants to leave a 50% tip, then more power to him. But I shouldn't feel bad because I give a 15% tip.

Whether we like it or not, tipping on safari is expected. Just like in a restaurant. It's part of the cost and one should factor that into the budget in advance.

Regards,

Terry

Terry
I'll try and find the lists tonight or tomorrow and post the numbers that were handed to me.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
Tipping is a confusing and ill defined element of the safari experience. I wish it were not that way.....

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
I personally have a problem with the statement that the guy that doesn't pay enough should stay home.

Double Amen! If this was the case they would be mandatory and included on the safari quotation.


I really wish the USA would clean up its labour laws and remove the master / slave relationships and antagonism. Then the rest of the world would drop it too.

In Australia I really like going to a restaurant and paying the bill and pocketing the change. And getting a cheery thankyou not a grumpy insult. Or going to a pub and paying for a beer with the correct money and not have to pay over the top so the bar man can earn a decent living. He gets it in wages. Porters at hotels just carry your bags - for free! unless you have an American accent. Taxi drivers try to steal your change but it is theft and the good ones don't expect anything even if they load up your luggage for you. And most of these fellows all have a nice house in a nice suburb off their wages which pay for their living. What a paradise!

***

This subject comes up every month which really says something to me about the subject. To me a tip is a gift and only that.

Also I can never reconcile the word "Professional" as in "Professional Hunter" with the word "tip". To me they are a contradiction in terms and standards. I never have tipped a "professional accountant" or a "professional engineer". Not even a "professional lawyer" event though they always have their hand out. What I have done and had done for me as well is an occasional nominal gift like a nice restaurant meal or a bottle of wine.

I think I will do a phone around some Aussie safari hunters and find out what the real world does.

I have always paid the workers cash tips (but never substitute wages) as they are poor in comparison but never a "Professional" Hunter and never an outfitter whose lifestyles usually easily exceed mine. I think physical gifts are nice for PHs as long as they aren't too bulky.

That's my opinion even if it contary to 99% of the posters here and will not change a thing.

I'll give you at least 5 AMENS.!!!!!!

Are any of the professionals out there willing to give us an idea what the PH receives as compensation from the company for a 10 day plains game and a 10 day buffalo hunt? I know whose vehicle is used has an influence on this number.

Ann,

Yes I can't agree more, ex: baggage handlers, hell I'd rather do it myself then spend the dollar or two! I'm by no means cheap! But when you leave on a safari figure all the hands out during your trip, it adds up! I had a "airport attendent" show me, just show me how to find a office, took all of 2 minutes, I thanked him, he stood there with his hand out! I couldn't believe it! I put a dollar in it, he chased after me, giving me hell for not giving him 5 or 10 bucks! OUT OF CONTROL! TIPPING!

I work very hard and alot of extra hours(7 days a week) to go to Africa. I'm performing a service, I don't get any tips, I don't expect them.

Some of you wrote that a tip is for "performing his job" isn't that what I paid for when I booked the safari. I was starting to feel cheap when I read all these tip amounts, then I thought about it, giving a PH a thousand or two thousand for a tip, well call me cheap! I think that's way out of control.

Nitrox, I have never had my hand out to a client for a tip, just for my billing for services and guess what sometimes I don't even get that.

Aspen, question if a tip is to Insure Prompt Service you must return for service another time as the service your are tipping for has taken place, eh.

Adam that is what dicussions are for - finding other opinions. In the end it is all a matter of opinion and the only opinion that counts is your own, eh.

Just out of curiosity, if a client develops a reputation as an excessively frugal tipper, are the staff and PH less enthusiastic about finding him all the animals he wants /the best trophies on his next safari?

Would the safari company refuse to book a hunt for a client if it is known that he is tight with the tips?

In the case of Will's example of a camp in Zim that is north of Chewore South, it sounds like the staff's wages come from tips, not from the safari company. In that case, I feel sorry for the staff. Will should do the right thing and buy each of them a pair of Courtney Selous boots (with the WR label).

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
TIPS: To Insure Prompt Service. That's what I was always told a tip was.

Another one

Temporary Insanity PaymentS

(OK I'd better shut up before I get in trouble again!)

As I recall, from a hunt in the Eastern Cape, RSA the PH got $150 per day out of the daily rate.

[This was a package hunt @$4800 10days/8trophies 1X1]

From that $150day/$1500hunt he provided his own vehicle [fuel, insurance, maintain etc.] paid and fed his own staff of tracker / skinner / driver -2 guys. Leaving him - not too much I think.
And it would seem like if that PH could get 10-12 such hunts in a season he'd be very busy. Not much profit either it would appear - without the tips.

As requested above what do the outfitters here [and the booking agents if they know] pay the PH's out of the daily rate?

[The tracker and driver noted above seemed to appreciate the watch I took off my wrist and the folding knife I took off my belt ALMOST as much as the generous tip I gave them.]

Les

Some people are well off and some are not. Some in both categories are generous, and others in both categories are cheap. I sometimes think it's genetic.

We've all seen rich guys who are stingy bastards when it comes to tipping, and I know I've known poor folks who would always find a way to pay what was an appropriate tip, even at the cost of much personal sacrifice.

Some of the best tippers I've ever known were relatively low paid workers in service businesses, such as doormen, waiters, bell hops and others who know how important a well-earned tip can be.

As for the rest of us, in the old days it was a gentleman's duty to know the circumstances where a tip was appropriate and how much to tip under those circumstances.

Even now, in these less genteel times, most people don't like to be thought of as cheap or as ingrates, and that's why we all need to get a feel for what level of tipping is right in any given situation.

Still, no one should fall into the trap of tipping for its own sake. A tip isn't an entitlement; rather, it should reflect a judgment as to the quality of service provided. In my view, even when a tip is generally "appropriate," no tip, or a lesser tip, should be provided for bad or subpar service. Under those circumstances, one must also complain to the service provider, to make it clear that it was poor or deficient service, and not cheapness, that led to the absent or small tip.

By the same token, in a context where tipping is traditional and important to the recipient, no one should begrudge anyone an apprpriate or generous tip for a job well done. It's just bad form to complain that tipping in general is somehow wrong or insidious. It's a fact of life throughout the world (apparently excepting Australia--could it be a reaction against marsupials and their many pockets?).

Just find out what's appropriate and be a gentleman about it.

Adam, I hunt Tanzania 21 days every year and the tips you suggest add up to $5360.00 a little much. The camp staff numbers 18 people, 5 of which go on the cruiser with me each day. what do the other 13 people do in camp the 14 to 16 hours you claim they are working hard on my behalf. I know they wash my clothes every day and make my bed, but does that take 13 people 16 hours? Actually their efforts are spent on maintaining the camp which is grossly overstaffed. I also feel the driver works much harder than the waiter. Driveing the cruiser 14 hours a day is very hard and dangerous work. The waiter serves you a meal twice a day, what does he do for the other 14 hours of the day? In a country where people earn at best 2 or 3 dollars a day I think expected tipping is getting way out of hand and that Hunting Operaters are paying their staff far less than they should and are putting pressure on their clients to make up this shortfall CHEERS

MZEE, thank you, agree with you.

quote:

Originally posted by MZEE:
In a country where people earn at best 2 or 3 dollars a day I think expected tipping is getting way out of hand

A very good point IMO. I've said it before and I'll say it again; US$10-20 goes a long way in most african countrys for a local black family.

The level of tipping as stated by some guys above is way higher then it should be IMHO. But then we don't have this "tipping culture" here in Norway. At least not to the same degree as in the US, although it is getting more common here too.

BTW, one suggestion I got from a Zim PH I asked a while ago was US$300 in total for 10 days of tuskless cow ele hunting. This would be devided for the 2 trackers, game scout, and the rest of the staff.

Am I crazy (don't answer that ) to think that we could come up with a broad general guideline regarding tipping? I mean something that would give us a ball park figure to use when planning a safari?

I used to think that the 10% of the Daily Rate rule was pretty good, but with some RSA outfitters charging $550/day for plains game and the Daily Rates in places like Tanzania and Zambia now in excess of $1,500/day, I think that the 10% rule is not a good rule anymore.

How about this?


Plains Game Safari:
1. Staff Tip - $20-$30 per day.
2. PH Tip - $30-$50 per day.

Dangerous Game:
1. Staff Tip - $30-$50 per day.
2. PH Tip - $70-$100 per day.

Exception to above: Full bag 21-28 days safaris in Tanzania, Zambia and Botswana may require a higher level of tipping than those stated above.

Staff Tip to be divided among the staff according to directions from your PH.

Is the above a reasonable and workable set of guidelines? Given the fact that there will always be ones who can tip much more and ones who can tip less.

Regards,

Terry

I don't understand the reason for a difference between plains and Dg. Staff is staff, washing clothes is washing clother, waiting table is waiting table. Skinning is skinning. I am sure PH's get better rate for DG than PG but sometimes I think I am paying DG rates for PG.