There does appear to be a preponderance of Southern influence on the hunting shows and I have no problem with it. The music, graphics, drawls etc. all indicate the 'down home' way and feel of hunting which points to the South. The American South has been romanticized by writers ever since our civil war days, and now I clearly see it's influence in safari hunting television.

Why though does this style seem to offend so many? As hunters we should all be about making our passion more inclusive. I'm not a redneck, but I've hunted with them. I'm not a hick, but I've hunted with them too.

Yes they're a little different than me, especially after a successful kill shot. But if they're hunting legally and respecting wildlife, why does their style seem to offend so many?

Whether you're a Southern Boy, Hick or Redneck it shouldn't matter, if he's a gentlemanly hunter.

The general perception is that folks from the South are ignorant buffoons and anything they do, they do ass backward. Being born and bred in the South and now residing in SEattle, I experience this first hand; these people thing Southerners are idiots and have no problems stating such, especially when they think I;m from here as I do not have a drawl (until I get back to cackilackey ands Virginny)) I think for the hunting shows, when Johnny backwoods shows up with the drawl and jacked-up truck, folks cringe because people do not want hunting (an activity people are proud and protective of) to be associated with a people they consider idiots; they feel it just adds to the fire of anti-hunting.

I agree and I have to admit I find myself criticizing their approach on occasion.

In my case I think it is often more of a generational gap in lieu of a Redneck / Southern Boy / Hick thing..

I grew up in PA, now live in Ohio but lived in Arkansas, Nevada, Maine (military). My son is 18, drives a lifted 4x4, wears boots and a cowboy hat, and loves the new hunting shows with the younger hosts and the wild music. I prefer Craig Boddington, your videos, Dave Watson, etc..

As my political views are staunchly conservative I tend to migrate towards the "Southern Lifestyle" as I see it being more conservative in general.

In my opinion it important that we, as hunters, do not eat our young - as you stated: "if they're hunting legally and respecting wildlife, why does their style seem to offend so many?"

It should not offend any of us - maybe we just need to remember we were young once.... :-)

See you in Reno!

Baxter - You have a point.. We are sensitive to anything that could have a negative influence on hunting and rightfully so. Are we at times maybe too sensitive? A catch-22.......

I had no idea there was such a preponderance, and I watch the cable outdoor channel (223 in the Mid-South) all the time.

I do strongly agree with those who take exception to the "yucking it up" approach after a kill, and the "high fiving" and laughing all around scene, assuming that's what you meant. It's plain distasteful and disrespectful to the game. And it sure doesn't help our image any with the general public, many of whom frankly just tolerate hunting.

But, understand something. This is NOT Southern. Not at all.

My family has lived here since the 1830s and I've been heavily involved in every kind of hunting regionally possible since the 1960s and know real well what kind of folks my fellow hunters are. We're not like that. And "redneck" doesn't strictly mean Southern either. I've had countless close hunting friends and partners who didn't finish high school and others that have advanced college degrees, and I promise none of them "whoop it up" after a kill.

Many of the ones without high school degrees have more class in their little fingers than the ones on TV ever thought about having.

In other words, that's just not the way it really is.

I think what you're talking about is an odd phenomenon caused by trying to act the part for a TV show. They THINK they're supposed to do that on camera. In essence people who do these shows many times are horrible actors. But I doubt that most are from the South or came by that here.

That said, I agree otherwise and wish those playing at the part on TV would try to show some class.

I was born and raised in central Louisiana so I'm Southern and a "country hick". Because of my age I don't hoop and holler like some of the younger guys do, but that doesn't bother me as much as the hunters that don't seem to have any emotion. Every kill to me is emotional. I feel a mix of elation and sadness.

btw, not all country hicks are from the south. I met my share living in California, Chicago, and Detroit.

I think the post-kill hilarity that often is portrayed is seen as disrespectful and 'proof' that hunters just like to kill. PRoblem is that post-kill elation after a good hunt is something only a hunter can experience and by its very nature will be a foreign idea to non-hunters who we all know are xenophobic. :-)

It's a complicated situation.. Let's face it, if we were hunting strictly to survive it would probably be a non-emotional routine event - like mowing the grass.

I get excited - always have and always will, it shows in my pictures and any video I take - I just don't put it on national television!

Times are changing - I don't know what else to say..

quote:

I do strongly agree with those who take exception to the "yucking it up" approach after a kill, and the "high fiving" and laughing all around scene, assuming that's what you meant. It's plain distasteful and disrespectful to the game. And it sure doesn't help our image any with the general public, many of whom frankly just tolerate hunting.

I agree with the distaste of the above mentioned events. But I always thought that it was the northern ("Yankee") influence showing up!!! Or an effort to include city folks.

You can't get anymore southern than South Texas in US (unless your hunting Key Deer) and I have never witnessed anyone acting like that when hunting in Texas. Been doing it all my life. Especially "real" country folks!!!

Great topic Moja, and one that will bring many views and opinions. I'm Southern born but having been around the block, "hicks, rednecks, bumpkins and just plain ignorant assholes" live all over the world. The only difference is their accent. I too believe it's the over celebration that most of us "mature" hunters dislike. What CharlesL said sums it up very well for me: "Every kill to me is emotional. I feel a mix of elation and sadness."
You just take into consideration that "Bubba's" come from all over the world. LDK

Accents & manner of speech mean absolutely except where one was raised.

I have a friend in the deep south that adopted a Chinese baby. Guess what, she sounds just like they do.

This all reminds me of recent business presentation, the speaker had a southern drawl and his counterpart apparently has an English accent as he is British. He joked that he gets docked 20 IQ points for his accent and his counterpart gains 20! The room erupted in laughter because, like it or not, people think this way.

I can also assure you that in the eyes of the antis the redneck hillbilly killer image is what comes to mind while the bird hunting English gentlemen image gets a pass.

In life you can act how you want, dress how you want but this does not me there are not implications to these actions.

I have met many Southern Gentlemen but I can't help but think they are a dying breed. It is almost as if the past couple generations think they can borrow this image and hard work from previous generations while not maintaining the standard themselves.

I'd also like to take a second to discuss the term "Yankee". This term should only include those in New England and possibly the North East. Someone from Michigan, for example, is NOT a true Yankee. The term also carries absolutley no negative connotation around here, it is actually something to be proud of.

I also don't believe "Southern" is an accurate discription. South East seems more fitting as those from Texas and the South West seem to honor the Gentlemen Sportsman ideal to a much greater degree.

SableTrail,

They offend so many because "so many" are so different in their physical respect for nature, for the chase and for the fur fish and game we pursue.

The principle is that each person is correct in "how" they hunt. So if my hunting style is more respectful than yours, I see you as a slob hunter. If your style is more respectful than mine I see you as a purist snob hunter.

It is just human nature I guess. Another example of a possible flawed design in man.

I have to admit, it is hard to understand wht they are speaking about sometimes.

Mike

Marc

I think that lots of un-Southern folks think it is all being put on. In Texas we tend to think that because lots of non-Texans sound off about us, people in general ought to just leave one another alone about these differences and concentrate on what there is to enjoy together.

Whining about how things are done down South gets old. The idea is to put forward something GOOD about your own area without having to put down another. For my own part, if Babe Winkelman and Al Lindner were all there were to listen to in the fishing world, I'd just have to pass. Yankee style ain't mine, but I'm glad they have success before an appreciative audience. Hoping they get more "Texan" or Southern would just be wrong, which is obviously how I see the "problem" with hunting shows.

BTW, I'm glad you do NOT have a Chicago accent.

Nope I could never speak with a Chicago accent. I just claim it now as my current home. I like Chicago people but I actually lived in Texas myself for many years. That's probably where I developed my cowboy mentality!

Oddly, I am more bothered listening to a guy with a Brooklyn accent on a hunting show than a Southerner. And as others have mentioned, the general hilarity and giddiness when an animals has been killed strike me as disrespectful and offensive. My natural inclination when I kill an animal is to treat it more like the elk in the opening scene of "Last of the Mohicans," with a mixture of reverence, sadness and gratitude.
The other obnoxious constant in most of the hunting shows is the g.d. electric guitar, er, GIT-tar music. The shows segue from their crappy rock tracks to even louder crappy rock tracks for the commercials. It is so tiring.

What makes me turn off the television is the combination of jumping high fives, head to toe camo and hearing the words "tough hunt" as the star climbs out of a blind.

I have a Southern (or maybe hick accent to some), but I have a Master's degree, know how to write (get paid for it a few dozen times a year), and can even find my way through multiple airports in a day. I get the redneck jokes all the time, but I am used to it, and it really doesn't bother me these days.

I agree with everyone that a bunch of laughing and dancing around after a kill is pretty tacky, and there are some guys out there who seem to strive to redneck up their shows or DVDs, but let me throw this out...

If you and a friend are hunting together, make a long stalk, crawl the final 100 yards, wait 30 minutes for your animal to give you the right shot, and finally one of you makes the perfect clean kill - what would your reaction be? I think mine would be to slap my buddy on the back, maybe tell him "great shot" in possibly a loud voice, and congatulate him. I would be grinning ear to ear. If I made the shot, I think I would let out a big breath, have a big smile, and want to shake hands with all involved...then go see the animal, admire him for what he is...but there would be emotion and excitement. If there isn't emotion and excitement, I don't want to hunt.

If you make a good shot on Safari, doesn't your PH usually pat you on the back, shake your hand and tell you that you made a good shot?

I remember a clip of a charging ele that Buzz Charlton and a client had bearing down on them. The client makes a great brain shot, the ele crumbles, and Buzz turns where you can see his face. His eyes are wide, he lets out a big breath of relief, priases his client while shaking his hand and has a big smile on his face and laughter in his voice. This is true emotion and obvious relief - no disrespect at all. That is what I want to see in hunters, it shows they love what they are doing and it is a great source of joy. You can have fun and respect the game...isn't that what it's all about?

Sabletrail,

You say you are not a redneck, but you have hunted with them. You also say you are not a hick, but you have hunted with them. Could you please define these categories of hunters so that I can figure out if I am one? In any event, I do appreciate your comments on being inclusive. Also, in my hunting experience I have had to stop a leopard at 8 yards and a really pissed off buffalo at 20. I'm afraid my emotional response to these episodes of self preservation may not have been as respectful to those animals as many on this post would require. Yeah, I vaguely remember loud screams and high fives. I do appreciate this post because I was getting tired of the traditional archery hunters degrading the compound bow hunters who degrade the rifle hunters who generally degrade the lever action rifle hunters who, along with everyone else, degrade the cross bow and pistol hunters. Now we can divide the country into north and south (hell let's go east/west while we're at it)and create a whole new degredation in the hunting community.

I don't necessarily apprecite the displays of excitment shown on some of the hunting shows any more than the childish dispalys shown by professional football players. But, then, I was taught by my parents and reinforced by the army to keep my damn mouth shut and be thought a fool rathr than open it and remove all doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by rxgremlin:
What makes me turn off the television is the combination of jumping high fives, head to toe camo and hearing the words "tough hunt" as the star climbs out of a blind.

+1 wearing head to toe camo and a hunter orange vest while the guide wears blue jeans.

Does anyone know a way to bring this thread to the attention of those who put on shows like what we're talking about?

That way maybe the thinking expressed here won't just ramble off into space in a day or two and not make a difference it could otherwise.

It wouldn't hurt for someone to offer a seminar or course or something on public relations to those doing hunting shows.

Curiously, I see the more objectionable after the kill behavior on hunting rather than fishing shows.

I have to agree that some of the hunting shows are very disrespectful of the animals killed and I think it is a shame. It shows us hunters in a bad light, especially to the non-hunting public. The genuine emotion associated with a hunt is not what bothers me; a high-five or hand shake, some back slapping and congratulations, and a genuine toothy grin are somewhat expected and portray the real deal to me... as long as it is not over done with a lot of fist pumping and B.S. What does bother me is a lot of laughter after the kill... this in my opinion shows disrespect for the animal and reflects badly on hunters.

I do not think it is all confined to us southerners either. I am from Alabama and most folks around these parts (myself included) speak with a heavy southern accent. It is who we are and how we talk... nothing more and nothing less. Most of us do not consider being a redneck a bad thing. Am I a hick or a hillbilly? ... I don't think so. I am college educated and work for a major aerospace company, building space flight hardware for NASA... but you would not know that if you ran into me turkey hunting and struck up a short conversation.

But, lets face it... some of the hunting shows just plain suck. The redneck boys "yucking it up" with their homegrown drawls of course do not help matters when they are disrespectful after the kill.

By the way... if you were raised north of the Mason-Dixon Line you are a Yankee !
A Yankee is a northerner that comes down south, a Damn Yankee is one that comes down and stays..........
Andy

Boy, I tell you what, there are some uptight old bastards around this place. I'm gonna have to go with Tim Herald on this one. You can damn well bet if I make that stalk, that shot and take that trophy animal I've been waiting for all my life, there's gonna be some celebration. If you can't enjoy hunting, and you don't celebrate success, then why bother. Let's face it folks, none of us here are hunting to feed our families. We're damn sure not going to Africa to bring home the proverbial bacon. I understand the deal with the anti's, but apeasement gets you nowhere. Letting the slimy bastards dictate how we express emotion is a step in the wrong direction. What we need to be talking about is what we're gonna do to get kids interested in our heritage and sport. Let me tell you, it ain't crusty old codgers looking down their noses at them. It's guys like Waddell and several of the others that excite kids. It's the music they like, not that damn elevator music I got the feeling some of you may migrate toward. If these folks are what it takes to build our ranks, then damn the torpedoes. Involvement is what will save our sport, not appeasement of the anti's.

And as Gazi said, what's up with all this division? Someone always wants to bring up something like this that divides instead of bringing us together. It's like when I use to shoot trap. The skeet shooters at our club hated us "redneck" trapshooters. I finally had enough and told the old curmudgeons that they needed to wise up, put aside the division, and stand with all their shooting "friends" and show some unity or we'll all be without the "right" to do what we all so dearly love.

Come on folks, keep an open mind and look at the real issues that the hunting community faces. That would be dwindling numbers in our ranks.

Stepping off the soapbox now. Oh, BTW, I am a redneck and a hick. And damned proud to be.

David Walker

I dont know what to say. i was born in the middle east, but have lived most of my life in the mid-ewest. I mean the mid-west USA. Some of my best friends are "southern" and many of my best hunting experiences in the "south". Duck hunting in Alabama, quail in Georgia etc. never an unkind word from anyone, always a gracious welcome for a "northener or 'foreigner', however you want to put it. It would be a privilege for me to be an honorary "southerner"

I would have to raise a point that I've seen.

If you were to attend say the Texas Trophy Hunters convention in San antonio, Houston, or Ft. Worth, I think you would see plenty of hicks and people who fit the description of classic "redneck". (one reason being its low end entrance charge (5-10$ plus open to general public). And there you will see a guy draggin his 8 shoeless kids and pregnant wife in tow.

Now, all SCI events, are considerably more expensive for day passes, and some require memberships, and I have to say, that I only saw one guy at DSC that to me seemed like a backwards redneck (which he proved when stated how dissapointed he was in the show, since he had driven down from arkansas, and then wanted to know why sable only cost 3k in Tanzania and 12k in Namibia? after asking him how much his daily fees in Tanzania would run, and his lack of knowledge, I ended the conversation as quickly as possible...I have very little tolerance for people who choose to ask stupid questions and then want to argue the answer without considering the differences in situations.)

As far as some of the hunting shows... I saw one today that made me sick!

On Wild and Raw on the Outdoor Channel, the ex-navy seal, I dont know his name. And I know he has an amazing story, won the navy cross...is an American Hero. So I don't want any backlash, he's a patriot, but he need to really learn some more about hunting.

But he decides to shoot a scimitar horned oryx, which they have a little promo talking about scimitar horned oryx, and yet they are showing clips of gemsbok oryx.

The thing I have a serious problem about is that he shot a scimitar that could not have been over 2.5 yrs old...and then him and his guide are all, "wow what a trophy". Completely stupid. Now this isn't about the horn size, but it would be the same as someone shooting a whitetail with 2" spikes.

Honestly, what bothers me about many of the hunting shows is the lack of enthusiasm for a great hunt and a great trophy. When I see someone make a kill, pose for the picture, and act like oh well, on to the next hunt, it concerns me. I think anti-hunters can appreciate excitement and enthusiasm a lot more than apathy. If its interesting and exciting, it might be worth looking into and actually making an effort to become educated. I have examples in my own family of this being the case. Finally, if you have to restrain your emotion about achieving lifelong ambitions, you might as well take up golf.

I have to agree with David on anti's. There is not point trying to appease them. If you have ever hunted for meat or trophy, or if you have dead animal heads on the wall they will lump you with the redneck, hillbilly, hicks. They do not care about how you treat the animal after the kill.

Actually I don't think non-hunters are the target audience of those shows. I do wonder sometimes if the producers of those shows aren't trying to target them to what they think that the redneck viewers want. It may be what the younger viewers want. As an aging redneck I can say I prefer shows like Babe's and Csonka's.

I've been called an Alabama redneck most of my life (even by my wife), but I can't stand most of the "Southern" shows. In fact, I can't watch any show, Southern or Yankee, where the schtick has replaced genuine personalities. The shows I enjoy focus on the chase, not the schtick.

BTW, where I was raised the term yankee meant anyone from North of Tennessee. But, someone from Brooklyn or Boston were definitely deemed more yankee than those from Michigan.

Personally, I typically experience relief and joy after a kill. I can't recall ever feeling sad - maybe that will be different after taking a long-aged species like ele.

Does the movie DELIVERANCE resonate with anyone?

quote:

It's the music they like, not that damn elevator music I got the feeling some of you may migrate toward.

What they do in music I could care less about. I've got no problem at all with that. And I was never much into elevator music.

Of course, if we want proper hunting music, given my way it'd be Hank Sr, Hank Snow, Bob Wills, Jimmie Rodgers, Ferlin Husky, Johnny Cash, Johnny Horton, Marty Robbins, Ray Price, Jim Reeves, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, David Allan Coe, etc etc...

The antis or whatever (I call them militant vegetarians because it's what they are) aren't going to like it no mattter what. So who cares about that. I wouldn't do squat different for them. I'd do it mainly for us, and on some level for the general non-hunting public.

The yucking it up on every shot be it deer or ducks gets too predictable and staged looking as if on cue. Some of it's not far from Three Stooges material. You can see it coming before they even pull the trigger. And I'm pretty sure they've been told to do it to make the show entertaining (like some of the arguments you see on the reality shows). It just gets old, contrived, embarassing and lacks class. I think that's all we're talking about here. There's no reason they can't make it more realistic than that and still be interesting.

Anyway, several here have already mentioned their heritage. As far as that goes, my great great grandfather was a horse cavalryman who rode with the old Wizard Of The Saddle, Gen. Forrest. I'm quite proud of that. He fought in skirmishes close to where I now live.

When one has just taken Life for one's own pleasure, a little respect is due to the animal. Whoopin' and hollerin' and bullshit don't convey much respect, and most of us Southerners wouldn't condone it in our children.

You'll want to turn your speakers up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrUlb3G-b6E

you know the first time I saw that I actually thought it was a joke... in point of fact, i still do, but in a different way...

Having my fathers side of the family from Appalacian Kentucky and my mother's side from the north central portion of Pennslyvania, I suppose I am a mix of both --- a "HillYankee"?
I think there are good folks from everywhere, I don't care about your accent or your dress or education. All I do care about is that you are safe in the field, an ethical hunter and having an appreciation for (all of) our hunting heritage. I'm not big on the hunting shows, as they generally focus on bow or muzzleloading which I really have limited interest in and they seem to be hour long commercials for the products the pros are using. There are 'personalities' I like and those I don't, but the bottom line is, the hunting videos are what personalties do to feed the family and I hope some of the fellas I don't like onscreen are better folks in person. I just wish I was as smart as some of them to invent a product that I could make a living manufacturing and the product gave me the chance to go hunting and get paid for it!

I don't think that the whooping it up and "gratuitous celebration" are a southern thing either. I suspect its a younger generation thing. I'm not that old, and the behavior you see on these shows are typical of athletics as they are played now, and when I was in high school, doing most of this would have gotten you suspended from the team.

The southern influence I see on these shows is more based on the fact that these guys need to be in the field in order to produce shows, and with the shorter seasons in the north (generally) and the much lower bag limits it is mostly restricted to the south for a shoestring budget show to start. Once they have gained some experience, and a following, they start to graduate to national exposure, and then some African hunting.

I doubt that Craig Boddington started out as an African hunting expert. Similarly, most of us don't have the national media experience that Mr. Watts brings. Cszonka was a national name before he decided to do TV.

I think this is also why most shows seem to predominate with bowhunting. To me, this is like watching paint dry, but to each his own- and the fact that a bowshot animal runs off with a blood trail is not real conductive to the bunny huggers loving it either. I will say that given the shooting range of bowhunting, it does improve the camera work, especially with less than great cameramen.

In any case, with the dramatic increase of cable channels and networks, expect to see much more marginal "outdoor entertainment".

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
You'll want to turn your speakers up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrUlb3G-b6E

OK.. I admit it's not my style either but like x2mosg said: "It's guys like Waddell and several of the others that excite kids."

My son got to hang out with with Chris Brackett of Arrow Affliction (http://www.brackettoutdoors.com/cbhome.htm) and loved it. Chris's exploits with a bow are impressive and motivated my boy to double his archery practice sessions.

I don't know what the average age is of the posters in this thread but I'm betting most of us are every bit of 50.
There is no doubt the show producers have analyzed their target audience - and it AIN'T US..

Ted Nugent might just be right - no apologies!

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
There does appear to be a preponderance of Southern influence on the hunting shows and I have no problem with it. The music, graphics, drawls etc. all indicate the 'down home' way and feel of hunting which points to the South. The American South has been romanticized by writers ever since our civil war days, and now I clearly see it's influence in safari hunting television.

Why though does this style seem to offend so many? As hunters we should all be about making our passion more inclusive. I'm not a redneck, but I've hunted with them. I'm not a hick, but I've hunted with them too.

Yes they're a little different than me, especially after a successful kill shot. But if they're hunting legally and respecting wildlife, why does their style seem to offend so many?

Whether you're a Southern Boy, Hick or Redneck it shouldn't matter, if he's a gentlemanly hunter.

Agreed.

There are only two kinds of people, just as there are only two kinds of music or anything else.

Good and bad.

Life is all about learning to tell the difference.