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Picture of LionHunter
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I've hunted Mozambique twice and sent clients on safari there with my legitimate outfitter. After reading three pages in this thread I know one thing for sure; I would never book a hunt with WBS nor with his operation. To do otherwise would be simply foolish.


Mike
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Posts: 3575 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of 404WJJeffery
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by WBS:
I have the following hunts on special:

10 Day PAC hunts. Problem Animal Control

Daily Rate us$700.00 per day 1x1

Lion Us$ 1750.00 refundable if not hunted
Elephant us$ 1750.00 refundable if not hunted
Buffalo Us$ 1750.00 refundable if not hunted
Hippo us$ 1750.00 refundable if not hunted
Croc us$ 1750.00 refundable if not hunted

Trophy Hunting:

1 x Cites Elephant us$ 25 000.00
2 x Cites Leopard us$ 11 000.00
1 x Lion us$ 20 000.00

Plainsgame available

www.whitebuffalosafaris.com


Here it is, your website as your signature.

The last thing I would wish to see is being questioned and detained while on a hunt.


So what I don't get is this:

Why didn't WBS just post, for example-

"I have leftover elephant quota available for this year, due to the economy, etc, as follows

elephant 10 days $8750 (his 10 day rate, 700x10, plus the previously advertised $1750 "PAC trophy fee) but based on this low price, it will be non-exportable ivory- for non US clients, and of course, not exportable in any event to US clients.


This would have been much more straightforward, and a lot less wiggling around.

Kinda says something about how someone operates, some people lay it out straight, others are always trying to wheel and deal....


______________________________

"Are you gonna pull them pistols,...or whistle Dixie??"

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Posts: 1487 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Vanderhoef
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Joel, I agree completely.

I still don't completely understand what he is trying to say and I'm coming to the conclusion that that is his intention.

Based on how many times he's "responded" and said basically nothing I'm afraid he's missed his true calling---politics


"....but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not of soundness of heart."
Theodore Roosevelt
 
Posts: 464 | Location: Just west of Cleo, TX | Registered: 20 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Leftover Quota means you can shoot any Elephant, in that case if I was the hunter I will go for the biggest Elephant.You are entitled to it if the hunt is sold as leftover quota.

I charge less than us$ 10 000.00 for an Elephant which is non trophy. Like I said, you will most likely be shooting a problem animal, hence PAC hunt, it is not a trophy hunt and not a non trophy hunt. You as a client hunts a problem animal if there is one. If there is not one, you the lucky client that gets an alternative Elephant.
 
Posts: 57 | Location: Pemba/Maputo | Registered: 30 July 2009Reply With Quote
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JACO = Just Another Crooked (SA) Operator

Apologies to the honest ones ....


Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
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Posts: 2625 | Location: Texas | Registered: 07 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of slimtim
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Wow! What a thread. I am glad I am member.

tim
 
Posts: 129 | Location: Maine | Registered: 03 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Safaris Botswana Bound
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This is the reason we in the hunting vocation and (some ) of our sport hunters so often become our sports worst enemies. There is seldom any hunting deal that is to good to be true , and hunting being such a complicated land use issue - it should be apparent that any confusion should ring very LOUD alarm bells.
Hunting throughout the African continent is plagued by rogue outfitters allways cutting some or other deal , misleading our sporting friends that there is some kind of short cut and discount to a big game safari. Have you noticed a discount from a legitimate sound reputation outfitter seldom comes across as a steal, and the very big outfitters with sound reputations dont ever offer a deal.
Legitimate Bussiness in africa is expensive, there are no short cuts or cheap way , in fact my experience is that doing everything the right and legal way is extremely expensive and these expences are carried by the cost of the safari - but this guarentees the safety of the sportsman and his trophies

Over on this side in Botswana which is one of the worlds least corrupt countries and Africa's least corrupt country , hunting is facing closure to some degree due to a large part of rogue outfitters. To this day the Botswana Wildlife Managment Association (BWMA) strongly advises hunters to only book with registerd outfitters and PH's.

Hunting by its nature will allways attract the hunter - be it of big racks , big tusks or big adventures or cheap hunts - its the nature of the hunter to hunt - I am not saying this is a illegal or not legitimate hunt but the confusion and many angles smack of the "The Problem with Africa" - read the book , and please book with only registered outfitters - be it with PHASA, BWMA , NAPHA , etc
Graeme Pollock
Safaris Botswana Bound
Safaris East Africa Bound
Mozambique Big Game Safaris
Sable Conservancy
 
Posts: 472 | Location: Botswana | Registered: 29 October 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mark DeWet
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I have tried to follow this story, and figure out what exactly it is this guy is trying to say,honestly it gets more and more confusing everytime he responds !
Stay away from WBS (Whatta Bull Sh...r)IT SOUNDS LIKE NOTHING BUT TROUBLE !!
I agree with Graeme Pollocks response - its not cheap to operate as a legal professional outfitter in Africa - be you a landowner or not - especially in remote areas, and a third world country with vague wildlife laws and regulations. Once again another dodgy South African PH / Outfitter tarnishing the reputation of the good ones - when is this crap going to stop ??


Mark



Mark DeWet
Mark DeWet Safaris - Africa
E-mail: marksafex@icon.co.za


... purveyors of traditional African safaris
 
Posts: 86 | Location: Southern Africa | Registered: 25 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of jdollar
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seems WBS dropped out of sight over 2 weeks ago. wonder why( maybe off jacklighting an elephant???)
 
Posts: 8776 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of DuggaBoye
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What a thread,

just read it all for the first time,
from what I know
(and read here and hear from those I trust) ,
if and when I go back to Moz I'd stick with
(alphabetcally:


Enslin
http://www.kwansafaris.com/team.html

Freischuetz (name?)
(web site)(feel free to help with this)

Strasheim
http://www.bahati.co.za/adventures/Contact.html

Tomkinson/Van Aarde
http://www.tomkinsonafricansafaris.com/guides.html


JM2C


DuggaBoye-O
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Posts: 3266 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mark DeWet
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I was one of the first PH's to hunt in Mocambique way back in 1994.I hunted with Anton Marais and Zambezi Delta Safaris (Coutada 11 Sofala Province) - as far as I am aware we were the only Safari Outfitter in that area at the time.
The only other PH/Outfitters that I knew of who were operating in Mocambique at that time was Pete Hougard (from Zim ) who had a concession up near Caborra Bassa, and the late Philip Nel who leased the hunting areas from the Madal Company near Quilimane.
Zambezi Delta Safaris is still operating in Sofala - as a partnership between Anton Marais and Mark Haldane - and with out a doubt is one of the best Coutadas / Outfitters in that area.
Zambezi Delta Safaris is probably the oldest (moden day) safari company in Mocambique at present - and has definitely been around longer (in Moc.) than any of the Safari Outfits mentioned in the above response.


Mark



Mark DeWet
Mark DeWet Safaris - Africa
E-mail: marksafex@icon.co.za


... purveyors of traditional African safaris
 
Posts: 86 | Location: Southern Africa | Registered: 25 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of shakari
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Mark,

I was up there in the (very) early 90s as well. That was in the days that Piet's camp didn't even have doors on the grass hut client accommodation if you remember?

It wasn't by any chance you that I bumped into on an elephant path one day was it?


Steve "Shakari" Robinson
www.shakariconnection.com

How To Become A Professional Hunter In Africa
eBook | Hardcover Book

http://centralportugalapartmentrental.weebly.com/



 
Posts: 12410 | Location: Retired from the Professional Hunting field in Africa and now taken the gap from South Africa and emigrated to peaceful Portugal  | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of SGraves155
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Piet's camp still didn't have doors in 2004!!
Got a good elephant on a PAC tag in those days;


Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
Tanzania 06
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Moz04
Moz 09
 
Posts: 8086 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mark DeWet
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Steve
I never did hunt in Pete's area, however I did hunt close by on Sandy McDonalds Cabborra Bassa area in 06.
I spent most of my time in Coutada 11 back in 94, the area was wild, unexplored and new - so every day was an adventure - ALL of our buffalo hunts were done in the Marromau swamps - on foot - no luxury swamp buggies (and cell phone towers) like they have today - damn I hate it when wild hunting areas get too civilised !!
Why can modern man not accept that sometimes things just shouldn't change,to accommodate our candy ass whims !


Mark



Mark DeWet
Mark DeWet Safaris - Africa
E-mail: marksafex@icon.co.za


... purveyors of traditional African safaris
 
Posts: 86 | Location: Southern Africa | Registered: 25 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of shakari
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Mark,

OK, it wasn't you then.......

I know what you mean about man's unending desire to civilise the wild places...... sadly, that desire ain't gonna stop. Confused


Steve "Shakari" Robinson
www.shakariconnection.com

How To Become A Professional Hunter In Africa
eBook | Hardcover Book

http://centralportugalapartmentrental.weebly.com/



 
Posts: 12410 | Location: Retired from the Professional Hunting field in Africa and now taken the gap from South Africa and emigrated to peaceful Portugal  | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Hello All

I know the bloody feeling, they ( ?) decided too put a cell tower up close too our camp, well too damn close, apparently we will now have cell signal by election time @#$@#@#%$#$%$%^&

So the good old days are numbered , I know the wife will love it, but I preffered the non communocation for a week or three, and just HF radio too check in on


Walter Enslin
kwansafaris@mweb.co.za
DRSS- 500NE Sabatti
450 Rigby
416 Rigby
 
Posts: 512 | Location: South Africa, Mozambique, USA,  | Registered: 09 November 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of shakari
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time to reach for the angle grinder mate. jumping


Steve "Shakari" Robinson
www.shakariconnection.com

How To Become A Professional Hunter In Africa
eBook | Hardcover Book

http://centralportugalapartmentrental.weebly.com/



 
Posts: 12410 | Location: Retired from the Professional Hunting field in Africa and now taken the gap from South Africa and emigrated to peaceful Portugal  | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of jdollar
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwan:
Hello All

I know the bloody feeling, they ( ?) decided too put a cell tower up close too our camp, well too damn close, apparently we will now have cell signal by election time @#$@#@#%$#$%$%^&

So the good old days are numbered , I know the wife will love it, but I preffered the non communocation for a week or three, and just HF radio too check in on
Hey Walter, you didn't show us the cell tower when we were there 2 weeks ago- and i am damn glad you didn't. couldn't help but notice the game scout had a cell phone though that he lived to pull out and take trophy pictures. is the politician putting in the cell tower the same one who wanted a hippo shot for his campaign election braii?
 
Posts: 8776 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Old but still valid info on PAC hunting in Mozambique same law same problem different operators 2009

follow this link reg. Moz PAC!

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...zUTA&feat=directlink
 
Posts: 395 | Location: Mozambique | Registered: 08 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Hello Jerry

Yeah, it is the same , they are trying too get all their promises for the elections,

Tower was not up then, but the guys are working24/7, obviously South African contractors

SO progress we have !@#@@#%#%^$%&

Freicheutz, how are things on your side, in the valley it is hotter than hades at the moment


Walter Enslin
kwansafaris@mweb.co.za
DRSS- 500NE Sabatti
450 Rigby
416 Rigby
 
Posts: 512 | Location: South Africa, Mozambique, USA,  | Registered: 09 November 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of shakari
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Walter,

Don't know if the same there but the cell phone masts in this area are now made to look like very tall trees.

Frankly, it ain't an improvement as they look like they were designed by a 6 year old! rotflmo


Steve "Shakari" Robinson
www.shakariconnection.com

How To Become A Professional Hunter In Africa
eBook | Hardcover Book

http://centralportugalapartmentrental.weebly.com/



 
Posts: 12410 | Location: Retired from the Professional Hunting field in Africa and now taken the gap from South Africa and emigrated to peaceful Portugal  | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of ozhunter
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Could be worse. Ive had three previous hunting farms sign up for huge power generating wind turbines. One farm has over fifty of these huge monstrosity's on it that can be seen from miles away.
 
Posts: 5875 | Location: Sydney,Australia  | Registered: 03 July 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwan:

Freicheutz, how are things on your side, in the valley it is hotter than hades at the moment


Walter
At least we get some air from the ocean Big Grin so up to 10 in the morning is OK midday is hot late afternoon it gets acceptable and you can hunt again. Good thing is we normally get a lot of cloud cover which helps some.

For your guys in Tete good news is that next year the hunting season will be most properly from the 1st of April till 30th of November at least on that we got agreement from the Nat. Director in the last week's meeting and hopefully the Minister will sign it! Other things hopefully are going to change for the better. We been working on it for the best part of the year! Let's see who is who after the @#$%^&*^% election. bewildered
 
Posts: 395 | Location: Mozambique | Registered: 08 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Yes,I think there is going too be a fair shakeup here in the North as well, a couple of nervous fellows out here, are trying too protect thier little empires as well.

I mut admit the season from 1 April does not bother me, I start 1 June in any case


Walter Enslin
kwansafaris@mweb.co.za
DRSS- 500NE Sabatti
450 Rigby
416 Rigby
 
Posts: 512 | Location: South Africa, Mozambique, USA,  | Registered: 09 November 2003Reply With Quote
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After a one month absence of WBS I can declare by KO...Freischuets!! And the other voices of reason.

He was outgunned from the beginning!


Alex Beasley

Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die


"Men don't change. The only thing that should surprise a man in his life is the history he doesn't know." Harry Truman
 
Posts: 442 | Location: West Coast of Florida | Registered: 23 June 2006Reply With Quote
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rotflmo
i think you could say that rotflmo
 
Posts: 17 | Location: its not hell...but you can see it from here. | Registered: 29 July 2006Reply With Quote
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+1 for Mark and Lion Hunter. Mozambique is a fine hunting destination when done with a reputable PH. I know there are several. I hunted with the Haldane brothers of Zambezi Delta Safaris in Coutada 11 last year and had the time of my life. Two different groups of hunters that I know hunted with them last month and had a great time.

Don't write of Moz because of this guy.

405wcf
 
Posts: 117 | Registered: 12 July 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of jdollar
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thank God, WBS took his con game and moved elsewhere. Moz is a wonderful country for a big game hunt.
 
Posts: 8776 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 28 October 2006Reply With Quote
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After asking some people questions I did not receive any explanation or reasonable answers. Why must I post any replies. I was in Mozambique for a couple of days as well.

Now, people tend to point fingers and when you ask them direct questions they ignore the point. Good strategy, but it does not work with me.
 
Posts: 57 | Location: Pemba/Maputo | Registered: 30 July 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
jdollar


Dear Mr, if I conned anybody I believe they will take action against false promises or empty promises. If any client feels he was treated unfairly by me or anybody linked to my company I will not fight it.

yet again all my paperwork is in place and double checked.
 
Posts: 57 | Location: Pemba/Maputo | Registered: 30 July 2009Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mark DeWet:
I was one of the first PH's to hunt in Mocambique way back in 1994.I hunted with Anton Marais and Zambezi Delta Safaris (Coutada 11 Sofala Province) - as far as I am aware we were the only Safari Outfitter in that area at the time.
The only other PH/Outfitters that I knew of who were operating in Mocambique at that time was Pete Hougard (from Zim ) who had a concession up near Caborra Bassa, and the late Philip Nel who leased the hunting areas from the Madal Company near Quilimane.
Zambezi Delta Safaris is still operating in Sofala - as a partnership between Anton Marais and Mark Haldane - and with out a doubt is one of the best Coutadas / Outfitters in that area.
Zambezi Delta Safaris is probably the oldest (moden day) safari company in Mocambique at present - and has definitely been around longer (in Moc.) than any of the Safari Outfits mentioned in the above response.


Mark no offense but i am in Moz. since 1993!
 
Posts: 395 | Location: Mozambique | Registered: 08 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mark DeWet
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When I first started in this business, many years ago,I was fortunate to have met Harry Manners - he was working at Skukuza Airport in the KNP as a PRO behind the information desk.I was a young ranger then working for Mala Mala, so would often be at the airport to collect guests coming off the Jhb flight. I would make a point of getting to the airport early just so that I could have some time to chat with Harry ( I must admit that at that time I was not aware of the great mans reputation as an ivory hunter )he was very humble, and never once told me about his exploits as a hunter - we would just chat generally about the bush, and his keen interest in Africa and its wildlife.He did however tell me once that he "spent some time on safari " in the old Portuguese East Africa, and would tell me about some of the places he "liked to visit and spend time " I mentioned to him that I would have loved to be able to go to these wild places he had visited and to this day I regret that I was not more perceptive to press him for more details - and probably too naive at the time to realise that here I was in the presence of one of the true gentleman legends of Africa.
I only realised much later (when I read his book "Khambaku" )who he was - by that time Harry had left the KNP, and I lost touch with him. To this day I still have regrets about my missed oppurtunities of being able to sit down and really chat to him.He was one of the true gentlemen that left a lasting impression on me.
I wonder what he would say about the present fiasco and dodgy operators and PH's plying their trade in his beloved back yard ! ?
RIP Bwana - I wish I could have walked in your footsteps !


Mark



Mark DeWet
Mark DeWet Safaris - Africa
E-mail: marksafex@icon.co.za


... purveyors of traditional African safaris
 
Posts: 86 | Location: Southern Africa | Registered: 25 August 2009Reply With Quote
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