My head hurts.

Oi, I don't understand the reason for bringing up the FBI/ USFW /BTAF. I clearly state NOTHING is exported. Is that a warning or a threat.

Now, quickly to get back to your questions Mr. My hunting areas is none of your concern. I don't ask you your areas. I advertised Meluco area on this website which makes the other irrelevant.

Second, according to you quota is issued on sustainabitlity. I find that very interresting, you explained to the people on AR how Mozambique goes about allocating hunting quota. Please explain to me how I get Bluewildebeest on a National Quota and nowhere in a hundred miles around my areas are any signs of Bluewildebeest. I know what Bluewildebeest look like. National Geographic did a documentary on my farm on one of my bluewildebeest. I worked with a bluewildebeest everyday of my life for years, so don't tell me I don't know what they look like.

Mr, don't even try to sell bluewildebeest, there are not any. You must realise and try and get it in your head, not everything you see on paper in Mozambique is what it looks like.

I get National and provincial quota which is also none of your bussiness, the Documents are online for everybody to see.

From the law 10/99 of 7th July
ARTICLE 69
Competent entities

1) Those competent to carry out the type of hunting referred to above in defence of people and goods are specialised brigades which should comprise inspectors or other functionaries from that sector (SPFFB), community agents assisting the inspectors, professional hunters and community hunters

Good point, I do not destroy a problem animal with a client, please get the point now: THIS IS NOT RELLEVANT.

I get a hunting license
I get a Elephant license
I get a client
I shoot an Elephant
I produce the passport of US client + rifle license + pictures of rifles and and. If it was illegal how do I get the licenses. I can not bribe a government, provincial director, administrador and who ever involved to earn just us$ 375.00 per day.
IT IS LEGAL

Then

I export a elephant trophy to America- That is illegal. You will not get the documentation to export.

Mr, have you ever encountered a community that says they will leave their country of birth because the government fails to protect their families against rogue KILLER (Not crop raiders)
elephant and lion. I submitted a proposal to the government, it clearly states.

*Identify the problem
*Analyze (Cause)
*Solution
*Implement

Reaction (depends on damage)

Damage

Scale 1 Minimum Damage
Scale 2 Common visitor in Mashamba's
Scale 3 Commonly known animal, Extensive
damage on aregular basis, Threat
to human life, cause of death of a
person/human.

Action according to scale

Scale 1 Observe
Chase of technique

Scale 2 Chase of technique


If

Any animal pose a threat to a person/human

Destroy

Scale 3 Eliminate or destroy

The proposal is in total 59 pages. I will not publish it. It is attached to my company papers.

From here I will follow the legal route to get a license to hunt down this animal.

Now Mr, my dad phoned me this morning from Pemba, he says if you feel so confident in your case, please feel free to take legal action against Muangaza and publish the documentation here. In the meantime you will get some papers within 2 to 3 weeks fdrom the government and provincial directors which will include the Governor of Cabo Delgado, the minister of Agriculture and more. Now if Saeed will be genourous and make it possible for me I will load the documents on the website.

Thanks yet again for wasting my time, I will get the government to sort out this issue for me.

One last thing Mr, my properties is called Fazenda do Bravio, it is private farms, not Coutada's.

I think I am thick (?) One poster says a non Moz non PH cannot hunt PAC- period. Another says it can be done and is selling this type of hunt. Still don't know which is correct...

I am also curious- WBS, you wrote there are two types of Afrikaners - can you define them so I will know when I meet them which one I am dealing with?

WBS- if I may say, I think it is beneficial, and fair, to ask which areas you hunt and/or control. It gives potential hunters a greater feeling of confidence in you (and BTW you don't have to own or control ANY- many don't).

But in the world of the internet and paying thousands of dollars and traveling to a foreign country, people naturally want to know something about who they are dealing with.

Lastly, at one point in your posts to seemed to say that you are not friends with government people and do not rely on special treatment or favors from them, then later write that when you had some problems you called up government people in the middle of the night and they helped you out. Nothing wrong with having friends in high places- just thought I'd try and get a clear picture of your position on this.

Thank you and best of luck and good hunting either way.

Dear Mr 404WJJeffery

There is Trophy hunting and PAC (Problem Animal Control)

Trophy hunting includes the list of animals listed on your quota for the designated hunting time as stated by the papers every outfitter in Mozambique receives.

1. The foreighn client books with the Outfitter.
2. Following procedures a hunting license, aniaml license, Gun import etc is issued by Mozambican authorities if your paperwork meets their criteria. For example, you can not import a rifle with no animal hunting license.
3. The client flies/drives to Mozambique and then to the hunting area.
4. The client hunt his trophies and later export the trophies to his country.

Thats the basic way it works.

Now if a USA citizen come for a hunt step 1-4 applies but one animal can not be exported, ELEPHANT.

So, now we follow step one two three and four for all animals except for Elephant. In the case of the Elephant I will take out a license. Shoot it legally but:

*It is not exportable.
*I will consult the local communities in my areas to find out where a problem Elephant is.
*We shoot the specific Elephant.

Now on my adds I clearly state minimum 40lbs(Not everybody want to hunt a hundred pounder). I do not hunt young animals or female or so called tuskless cows or any.

In the case of no Problem Animal I still have a legal permit/license to hunt a Elephant, but believe me there are more than one problem Elephant in Cabo Delgado. My properties are very close to the Quirimbas National Park and there is over 3000 Elephants in this reserve not to mention outside. My property is on a major migrating route. If you read the press you will find that there might be another Gamereserve up and coming, it is to prevent these incidents. In a gamepark Elephant are protected, it forces people to move although you can destroy an Elephant within a gamepark if it killed people.

I can do these type of hunts with Lion, hippo, croc and buffalo and in very rare cases with leopard. Please note that no trophy fee is charged, thus no trophy can be exported.I only charge a license fee of Us$ 1750.00 which is refundable. I ussually combine a PAC hunt with a Trophy hunt which makes it possible for a US citizen to hunt a Elephant

Areas I control:

Zambezia: (40 000 ha) Mopeia. (Joint Venture with Mozambican Partner.)
Gaza: Masingir: (30 000 ha) (Joint Venture with Mozambican Partner)
Gaza: Mapai: (30 000 ha) (Joint Venture with Mozambican Partner)
Cabo Delgado: Meluco: (10 000 plus 40 000 ha new) private
Cabo Delgado: Muidumbe (10 000 plus 80 000 ha new) private
Maputo: (45 000 ha) Private
Maputo: (796 ha) Private non hunting gamefarm with Rhino and other game.
Cabo Delgado: Chapa (10 000 ha) Private
Cabo Delgado: Mocimboa Da Praia (10 000 ha) Private
Tete: Tete (10 000ha) Not hunting yet
Sofala: (10 000ha) Not Hunting yet

I can't remeber them all, will check my papers tomorrow.

Special treatment means you get favors, I do not like favors. Favors grow bigger everyday and it will be your end. You give a pinkie, they take your hand. It's a huge no no.

There is a diffrence though, my partner. He is an ex in high places. His dad was a war veteran and knew all the big names. The only difference is, he is Mozambican, he can do and get quicker. He is recognised and does not use his influence or money to get where he want to, he use simple practise, respect. It paves your way forward. One big rule in Mozambique, do not bribe, do not lie!!!

Gordon Bruce Cormack always said to his clients

"All the Elephant I shot im my life was over hundred (100) pounds."

Then he would keep quiet for a while and make you think......

His reply...... 'some of them even weight six tons'

Without wanting to get involved in this.

I met my old buddy Jason Van Aarde today and this subject came up in conversation.

Jason was unaware he is pictured on the WBS site and he asked me to point out that neither Jason Van Aarde nor Tony Tomkinson have (or want) anything to do with White Buffalo Safaris and neither Jason or Tony have granted permission for their photographs to be used on this site.

quote:

Without wanting to get involved in this.

Where is Jason or Tony's picture. Go to the websites first and make sure. It is cached, so even if I delete the pictures it will still be on Googles Database.

Ok, to get to the point, Is Jason van Aarde still sour about the agent saga. He could not use the same agent as me, it is conflict of interrest. My agent phoned me about Jason's plans.

The outcome, well, we all can see. Jason canvassed my client from Australia, another huge no no in the Hunting industry.

You want the prove where Tony and Jason acknowledge it. I will paste the e-mail right here.

*Mr Shakari, I don't leave my clients at a airport and leave the country while the client do not even know where his rifles are.

*I do not blame my mistakes on somebody else.

Let Jason and Tony fight their own battles.

Again I state their is NO pictures of either Tony or Jason on my websites. Do not accuse me if you do not have the facts. My company is not related to them.

My my.....the Lions are Hungry......but they do not always get the Buffalo.....

I think you need to take a relaxative sunshine.

My computer isn't caching at all. You still have pics of Jason on your site. I don't give a flying fuck about that but he does and all I'm doing is passing the message on.

You tried to get me involved in this with 3 separate emails and I told you then I'm not interested and the same still applies.

Go bark somewhere else.

I'll second that, Steve. Maybe this post should just fade away.



Dutch

Funny how people challenge me on the internet,trying to make a fool of me. I'm tired of defending myself. Accusation after accusation, how much must I take. I came here in good faith, and I am not leaving. It started with PAC hunts, then my company and now it is pictures.

Like I stated way back in my threat

"Tony and Tony and whoever is involved, leave me alone!!!"

I beg to differ, why not ask your buddy if he ever hunted Zimbabwe with my dad, and he must tell me where that picture was taken and who is standing next to him and who the client is.

If you don't want to get involved, why continue the discussion?

I need to say nothing more. Tell Jason he must go look in a mirror and see what he looks like.

What happened to Tony's photo on my website now?

Get your facts before you accuse!

I just want to know, is all new people treated like this when they join AR. I thought this is a Proffesional Website. I starting to feel victimized.

Yet again I'm not leaving.

no we are just victimising you, we had a secret meeting at exactly 00:01 under a fool moon, with the wind blowing at 5km North East, after eating a some trout pate with some crackerbread, followed by some some goats blood, we decided that you will be our next victim, i mean we do this for fun,

Good one, but I do not fall for that.I don't mind being victimized, I guess thats the price you pay for being highly succesfull at the age of 34.

Dear Sir

You do not know my history. I started a bussiness 5 years ago. It started growing. I took on partners but as bussines goes, a partnership is a sinking ship. I had a LOT of respect for my partner up until one day, something happened and it changed my mind. All the investment was withdrawn and my family was left with 2 vehicles. I was not to fail myself and with no money, food or house I kept on negotiating, working. Slept in the bush because I had no money for a us$ 15.00 motel room.

I was not suppose to succeed, but I did. My company grew into a huge concern both South Africa and Mozambique. I never delt with American clients and I thought it might be interresting to see what happens here. I deal with Europe, Polish and Russian clients most of the time.

Nway, everybody had a fair share of the cake but some wanted it all, greedy! I put a stop to it and they turned sour because they could not have it all.

If I need to type here my facts you will read for a day to get the story, so I will rather not do it.

As I said, it started with PAC, then my properties and now pictures that does not exist. They are reaching their objectives most probably, but I am not backing off, I have nothing to hide.

please Saeed, KILL THIS THREAD!!!

Dear Mr jdollar

I asked Saeed to kill the thread. I am forwarding him the url now.

Before I damage peoples reputations

I am happy and respect your success in life (34 years young), but NEVER open a dicussion about "money" on a public forum - it is called arrogance.

"You actually went one step back and two steps forw... sorry, nowhere else...with this PAC discounted package"

Dear mr Bushwack

Thankyou very much for your reply. I will take your advice. I had a choice and maybe I just took the wrong decision at that time, I'm never to old to learn and maybe I learned something or a lesson from this.

Regards

Jaco

quote:

Originally posted by WBS:
Dear Mr jdollar

I asked Saeed to kill the thread. I am forwarding him the url now.

I am afraid I see no reason to kill this thread, as I am not sure we have gotten to the bottom of this yet.

A PAC hunt was offered, and then we get others posting that PAC hunts in Mozambique are illegal.

So what is the truth?

I think it might be best for the benefit of everyone who might be considering this type of hunt to know what the real facts are.

Legal Papers/Laws/Regulations/Rules and whatever you may call it has been with us for many thousands of years. The objective of these papers is to tell us as the Public/Bussinessowners/Endusers or which way ever you want to interpret it what we are not allowed to do, in other words what is illegal or breaking the law.

In South Africa there is new strict smoking Laws. You are for example not allowed to smoke in a Restaurant. This law states not that you are not allowed to smoke in your motorhome, on your boat, in your garden, in you house, in your garage or where ever you want to smoke.

To make it very simple, the law tells you to the point not what to do. As long as you do not do the same to the point there is no illegal or break the law.

I missed a point there.

The South African law states you are not allowed to smoke in a restaurant.

If you tell me its illegal to smoke in a Restaurant in South Africa I will beg to differ because it is legal as long as you smoke in a designated area which is also stipulated by the law.

What I want to say in this message, people do not use laws/regulations or rules to your advantage if you do not understand or show people the full page/law or rules. In this case I showed you that I can make anything illegal to people that are not aware.

quote:

Originally posted by WBS:
I missed a point there.

The South African law states you are not allowed to smoke in a restaurant.

If you tell me its illegal to smoke in a Restaurant in South Africa I will beg to differ because it is legal as long as you smoke in a designated area which is also stipulated by the law.

What I want to say in this message, people do not use laws/regulations or rules to your advantage if you do not understand or show people the full page/law or rules. In this case I showed you that I can make anything illegal to people that are not aware.

Is this supposed to mean that there is a law against these hunts, but you have found a loophole?

quote:

Is this supposed to mean that there is a law against these hunts, but you have found a loophole?

How many times have we seen people been charged with crimes and they get away with it. How do they get away? We all get so upset when this happens.

Any law/contract/agreement or rule do have a loophole. These people are clever enough to spot those loopholes and make use of them to their full advantage.

I think earlier in this post I mentioned my way of operating (PAC) is my secret and I will not share my recipe. Yes sir, there is a loophole in the law and up until the day the law change in Mozambique, what I do is considered legal. I made my intentions very clear to all the relevant departments in Mozambique and by doing this they could not stop me. They can only give me a stamp. My partner is in Pemba as from tomorrow to get this all on paper from Administradors level to Provincial and government level as I mentioned earlier on in this post.

Then again, I am not doing the PAC hunting the way or in the context the law states or classifies it, I changed a couple of things that made it legal. I tested it, it worked. There is licenses and importation papers and Hunting licenses as the law requires, just one change that I spotted that made the difference.

You as a client is a legal Hunter, licenses etc. Just have to settle for pictures, no trophy.

My trophy hunting operation in Mozambique is the same as any other company in Mozambique. I obide by the laws of the country and that is why my clients are all returning safe back to their homes and countries.nt In South Africa I operate accordingly and hunt from Private farms to Kruger National Park Elephant and Buffalo.

Good observations sir, you saw the MO.



"Be carefull what you say, listen to what other people are saying" (Biggest rule in Life)

quote:

I think earlier in this post I mentioned my way of operating (PAC) is my secret and I will not share my recipe

There is no way in hell I would hunt with anyone who has a "secret" of how to do things which are not legal.

I would not, under any cicumstances, do anything during my hunt which is not clearly spelled out in my hunting license

If this is really legal, how come no other outfitter is offering it?

I hope you will clarify this point for us.

And anyone else in Mozambique who knows about this, please enlighten us.

"I took Trophy Hunting and named it PAC. That is no crime and it is not illegal in Mozambique"

WBS, please explain the above for me.

Am I to understand that a hunter can shoot a trophy elephant - valued US$25,000 - and you can actually put that down as a PAC hunt for US$1750?

and again the hole gets deeper, ask freisheutz how legal PAC hunts are in Moz. ill even send you the law, point is PAC animals cannot be hunted by "Tourist" hunters, it needs to be a OFFICIAL (not made officail from back hand deals!!!!!!) government personell or assigned/designated (registerd) Hunters (Proffesional in this case, or a Fisçal- game warden type) Official, meaning it has to be a hunted in a perscribed manner by AUTHORISED PEOPLE, theese hunts CANNOT be SOLD!!!! PERIOD!!!, MR WBS, please Go BS some other people, we are able to see this for what it is(a bunch of NONSENSE with the potential to put you and more impotantly the CLIENT in trouble...) please you may be gaining a bit of money now, but if your clients get cought while on one of theese hunts it will ruin there lives, so pleese find another manner of conducting business...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
"I took Trophy Hunting and named it PAC. That is no crime and it is not illegal in Mozambique"

WBS, please explain the above for me.

Am I to understand that a hunter can shoot a trophy elephant - valued US$25,000 - and you can actually put that down as a PAC hunt for US$1750?

i really really want to hear this explination

oh, i have treid to stay out of this... but we have a persistent BS`er here, please be very aware of whatever you do here, i would hate MOZ getting worse rep than what it allready has, i love my home, and would hate it to get an even worse rep if someone gets cought doing this. please ladies and gentlemen, tread with the aeir of caution when dealing with something sceptical.

quote:

Originally posted by WBS:

quote:

Is this supposed to mean that there is a law against these hunts, but you have found a loophole?

How many times have we seen people been charged with crimes and they get away with it. How do they get away? We all get so upset when this happens.

Any law/contract/agreement or rule do have a loophole. These people are clever enough to spot those loopholes and make use of them to their full advantage.

I think earlier in this post I mentioned my way of operating (PAC) is my secret and I will not share my recipe. Yes sir, there is a loophole in the law and up until the day the law change in Mozambique, what I do is considered legal. I made my intentions very clear to all the relevant departments in Mozambique and by doing this they could not stop me. They can only give me a stamp. My partner is in Pemba as from tomorrow to get this all on paper from Administradors level to Provincial and government level as I mentioned earlier on in this post.

Then again, I am not doing the PAC hunting the way or in the context the law states or classifies it, I changed a couple of things that made it legal. I tested it, it worked. There is licenses and importation papers and Hunting licenses as the law requires, just one change that I spotted that made the difference.

You as a client is a legal Hunter, licenses etc. Just have to settle for pictures, no trophy.

My trophy hunting operation in Mozambique is the same as any other company in Mozambique. I obide by the laws of the country and that is why my clients are all returning safe back to their homes and countries.nt In South Africa I operate accordingly and hunt from Private farms to Kruger National Park Elephant and Buffalo.

Good observations sir, you saw the MO.



"Be carefull what you say, listen to what other people are saying" (Biggest rule in Life)

very very fishy... oh and contradictory... please state facts, to anybody intrested there is an invaluable rescource availible to anybody intrested in the legal structure in MOZ, or for that matter intrested in investing in MOZ, it is: http://www.acisofala.com/

WBS thank you for the response. I don't mean this as an insult, but, given your responses, there is no way in Hell I would book one of your "maybe it is maybe it isn't" hunts.

A $5k elephant is not worth a $400k Lacey Act penalty.

Saeed
Please end this this is stupid and getting people upset that is not the purpose of this forum. CUT IT OFF

I will clarify it point for point. I think people are confused here. People please I can see clearly that there is a big misunderstanding here. I do not sell Problem Animal Control. I am selling a problem animal which is a non trophy hunt. Instead of shooting a hundred pound Elephant, the hunter shoots a killer Elephant/Lion which is not exportable. Plain and simple as that.

I am dealing with this and if people will be so genourous to wait I will give you one answer in short step for step. I do not get the chance to do so because I am on and of the track with other accusations.

quote:

Originally posted by WBS:
I will clarify it point for point. I think people are confused here. People please I can see clearly that there is a big misunderstanding here. I do not sell Problem Animal Control. I am selling a problem animal which is a non trophy hunt. Instead of shooting a hundred pound Elephant, the hunter shoots a killer Elephant/Lion which is not exportable. Plain and simple as that.

I am dealing with this and if people will be so genourous to wait I will give you one answer in short step for step. I do not get the chance to do so because I am on and of the track with other accusations.

Thank for for telling us this.

But, several posted seem to say PAC animals are NOT allowed to be shot by a client??!!

How do you get over this problem?

quote:

freisheutz

He is plain forward trying to stop me from hunting. If he feel so confident like I said before, he does have all my details, go ahead and stop me.

I'm not upset, I'm trying to explain something and other people are getting frustrated.

I described my way of operating to a person and I will work until we get the answer and show it here.

I will not give up until it is clear and everybody understands. Maybe I am wording it wrong because english is not my first language.

I will work on it till it makes sense.


'Does anybody know Kentucky Fried Chickens recipe'

Do I understand correctly that you are actually hunting as you would any trophy animal, but rather than looking in rangeland herds etc you are finding out from villages whether you can help out by brining your paying client to shoot a problem animal, rather than one that is not causing problems?

If so does the client have a choice in the matter. How does this work with regards to the law

Saeed

PAC hunting is illegal with a client. I will quickly point out the differences between PAC hunts and my hunt I'm offering.

In Problem Animal Control there is no license fee. In other words the government asks you as the outfitter/PH to sort out the problem. You can say yes or no but it is actually a duty. Only PH's can do this. This is the General argument which is true.

What happens is Outfitters will make use of these oppertunities to hunt Lion/Elephant with clients and charge the client. THis is illegal because the law states if you hunt an Elephant as a hunter you must be in possesion of a hunting and animal license at the time of the hunt. In other words the us$5000.00 fee that must be paid to the goverment is skipped.

I do PAC hunts as follows and this is my argument:

US Citizens can not export Elephant products.

I change a couple of things. I will offer any US citizen a Elephant on the following condition hence PAC/Trophy hunt. In most cases its a combo.

*Non trophy Elepant (I do not charge Trohy fees)
*I made another change, I offer a problem Animal. this limits your tusks to a minimum of 40 lbs and you need to shoot a resident bull that raids mashambas or in a few cases killed somebody in my areas.

Ontop of that I offer

Buffalo (Trophy)
Lion (Trophy)
Leopard (Trophy)

Sable antelope
Zebra
and the list goes on.

Now if you book a Elephant at this price most hunters will book a Lion or buffalo as a trophy animal and the list keeps on growing. In some cases I get a 2x1 safari and at the end of the day if it meets my criteria I will accept and I will start importing the rifles, get the hunting license and all relevant animal licenses.

It is totally different!

Dear Vlam

I posted a reply just now and you are quite correct. If I get authorization and a request from the authorities I will do so but I must have an available license. Once my licenses are used I can not do it anymore for the season.

I must also have authorization from Provincial and district level on a paper.

In other words I need the following papers.

Hunting License
Animal License
and Most important Authorization letter from provicial level.

If you take a client to hunt any Elephant outside your area with one of these papers missing you will have big trouble.