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404-375 Now with pics!
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I'm in......Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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What will he charge for dies?

Two or three die set?

Two reamer set is a must IMHO

Would you bring it to Africa?

If so maybe you can visit your friend Ganyana who like the cart too Big Grin


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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This says a lot. Dave has seen a lot of wildcats and for him to give this a thumbs up is a huge deal.

quote:
I spoke with Dave at CH4D today. He thinks the cartridge is a winner.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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It could go with me in 2011...

I like to think of it as an excuse to return next year, like I really need one.

I'll check on the cost and let you know.

Rich
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Cool Big Grin
What do you think of the advantages of a 2 or 3 die set?

Anyone?

Do you think a 2 die set is all that is needed?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I would like a 3 die set,a sizer,expander & seat/crimp. I want the dedicated expander for cast bullets,makes it much easier to put a nice flare to the mouth for seating.

Another aspect you might like is that with a lubri-sizer and a .423 die it is very easy to squeeze down .429" bullets for cheap & general practice.

All the big bullet companies make some nice 300 gr. bullets that would be great for plinking and possibly respectable White Tail bullets. Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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At 25 cents a pop these resized bullets will be good hog thumpers and plinkers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewP...productNumber=284212



577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Rich,

Some where earlier in this thread someone had spoken to Qual Cart (boom, was that you?) And they said 404- could be added to their 375 H&H brass for a rather small premium.

I really wish I could commit to a rifle for rebore THAT fast but I just couldn't. However I am ready and willing to commit to splitting reamer costs. I think someone else also spoke to Pacific and were qouted like 145 for reamers and not long of a wait.

Man if I could sell off my 25 wssm quick enough I might be able to jump on a 798 375 if CDNN has any left. Really would rather have the m70 but we shall see. I have also been VERY tempted on a 375 SS Rug No.1 that's just under 1k locally. Would be interesting to have a single shot done to add to our mix! That could easily be rechambered later to 404 Jeff for resale if need be I suppose.


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2201 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
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May I suggest the CZ 375 six shooter?
Not hard to find.

I don't see a reason for going with a # 1 since the qualities that make the cart great are feeding and lower recoil and the #1 are not good for that.

But to each his own.

I can ask Qual-Cart what they would charge for a stamp on a case.

quote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Rich,

Some where earlier in this thread someone had spoken to Qual Cart (boom, was that you?) And they said 404- could be added to their 375 H&H brass for a rather small premium.

I really wish I could commit to a rifle for rebore THAT fast but I just couldn't. However I am ready and willing to commit to splitting reamer costs. I think someone else also spoke to Pacific and were qouted like 145 for reamers and not long of a wait.

Man if I could sell off my 25 wssm quick enough I might be able to jump on a 798 375 if CDNN has any left. Really would rather have the m70 but we shall see. I have also been VERY tempted on a 375 SS Rug No.1 that's just under 1k locally. Would be interesting to have a single shot done to add to our mix! That could easily be rechambered later to 404 Jeff for resale if need be I suppose.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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It was just a thought as it was available with layaway and I get treated very well at that store. If only they would have a CRF 375 run through I would be set!


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2201 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Crossing my fingers for ya!

I guess right now we can focus on dies and reamers since that is the bridge to cross right now.

Who wants dies?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Talking case capacity...

The Lott is 108 grains
the 416 Rem mag is 106 grains
Can someone measure 404-375 cases @ 2.85"

I think it would be depending on brass manufacturer once fired cases would be about 102 grains if starting out at 99 grains that the Win 375 HH seems to be.

so we are talking about 3 or 4 grains diff between the 416 and the 404-375 2.85"

With a slightly larger bullet I do not see why 400 @ 2300 will not be a great load for this cart.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Well classic 2150 for SURE won't be a problem! Once it hit that mark I'd probably be loading more for accuracy then speed.

How much are we talking to for dies?

PS thanks for the finger crossing Boomy Wink I think I might call CDNN tomorrow and see if they have any 798's left. Also need to check with the LGS and see if they can order me one, they HAD a bunch of "normal" calibers in stock just a month ago.


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2201 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Boom Stick I just loaded a few 425 express's today,400gr Mt Baldy over 50.5 imr 4895 for 1800fps. Easy shooter and dead on at 100yds with a 2 1/2" high sighting for 350 Woodleighs. Will be my plinking and yard load.


I tend to use more than enough gun
 
Posts: 1249 | Location: lake iliamna alaska | Registered: 10 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Great round, this is the first wildcat I have ever considered.

Have you guys considered naming the cartridge the "404 H&H American"?


"The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc....
-----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years-------------------
 
Posts: 1521 | Location: Just about anywhere in Texas | Registered: 26 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the compliment.

A lot of the reason behind the name was simplicity.

Most I assume will rebore and use the same barrel and brass so all you have to do is restamp the 375 with a 404-

Simplicity is important with this idea.

Most big bore shooters know of the 404 but not 423 ( .423" Actual diameter) and the 404-375 is the American cartridge nomenclature that will be easy to understand and convert.

quote:
Originally posted by Rae59:
Great round, this is the first wildcat I have ever considered.

Have you guys considered naming the cartridge the "404 H&H American"?


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I like the flexibility of these carts. With resized pistol bullets and rifle bullets this cart has a similar flexibility of the 458 Lott.

A lot will like the 400 @ 2150 to get a similar recoil to the 375 HH and enough gun for anything.

quote:
Originally posted by waterrat:
Boom Stick I just loaded a few 425 express's today,400gr Mt Baldy over 50.5 imr 4895 for 1800fps. Easy shooter and dead on at 100yds with a 2 1/2" high sighting for 350 Woodleighs. Will be my plinking and yard load.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Hello All,

I received this E-Mail back today from Pacific.


The cost for a finish reamer or resize reamer is $147.00 each. Allow 2 to 4 weeks for production time
If you would like to order we can get you a print.
Regards
Kathleen

This week end I will send a message off with a more detailed description of our desires.

With a conformation from them that there should be no problem with the design I will request a drawing. Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Great!


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2201 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
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$300 for finish and resize reamers is not bad but I wonder what the cost will be for just opening up 375 dies and just using a 404 neck/thraoter to keep initial costs down.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Honestly I wonder if it would really save any money doing it the poor man way we originally discussed. I'm sure most smiths will treat the neck/throat job as a rechamber cost wise, and that's IF they have the stuff to do it on hand. So we are looking at 100-200$ per gun on that, on top of the 220$ rebore. If the smith has to rent the 404 reamer that's another 50$ +/- on top. So 150-250, I think we would be better off splitting the reamer cost between a few folks. That should work out to under 100$ each, and a rebore + rechamber is 295.


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2201 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Some may want to go the cheaper but more hassle route and some may want to go the "Normal" way. Both are good.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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As an after thought I sent an additional E-Mail to Pacific with a link to our thread.

Today I received another E-Mail from Dave Kiff:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Kiff writes

No problem
423 x 375 H&H finisher is $147.00 with a 2 to 3 week production time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am assuming he may have read it and thinks its a go. I will update after I get a reply from the more detailed message I am sending.

Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Question for All,

How much freebore should there be. Remember some bullets have wide driving bands, and we want to keep pressures down with those that wish to use heavy loads occasionally.

Some bullets such as the Barnes banded solid, Woodleigh 450 gr. the flatpoint copper solids with multiple bands and grooves can be extended further out of the case to take advantage of action & magazine length. This will expose a longer shank of the bullet outside the case mouth.

Recommendations wanted. Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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As far as the Reamer/Finisher, for a total of 300.00 if split between a few is not that bad.Then we're done with it.All we have to do is have a gun, a rebore and take care of shipping to & from were ever the set is at.

The only other cost will be dies.We'll already have the reamers. Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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On the freebore issue I am in the camp of generous is good. I think that would be a good question for the big bore board.

As to the poor mans approach you can open up 375 dies or order custom ones. The more people go in on the reamer the more poor mans it gets!

Poor mans does not men lack of class though Wink

I think this cart is classy as hell!

Now where is my monocle Big Grin


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Oscar,

You rock man! I don't know how long it woulda taken us to fet things off the ground without you stepping in and lighting the proverbial fire under the ass!

Free bore eh? Hmm....well we are not going to be pushing weatherby or RUM pressures so I doubt we need a large amount, would half a caliber work out enough?


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2201 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
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I was thinking more like around .5". I would like a little leway for bullets like woody's 450.From crimp to bullet tip it's fairly short and moving it out to use the length of a long action magazine will place more of the bore diameter shank of the bullet above the case mouth.This would limit overall length on alot of bullets with a short freebore.

I really dislike the way my Ruger #1's have no freebore to speak of, it is very irritating.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by oscar:
I was thinking more like around .5". I would like a little leway for bullets like woody's 450.From crimp to bullet tip it's fairly short and moving it out to use the length of a long action magazine will place more of the bore diameter shank of the bullet above the case mouth.This would limit overall length on alot of bullets with a short freebore.

I really dislike the way my Ruger #1's have no freebore to speak of, it is very irritating.
Oscar,

Tell Dave Kiff that you want this:
Length of Freebore + Neck Chamfer = 0.5"
Length from Neck Chamfer to Bore Diameter: 0.710"
computed into the reamer shop print. Dave will take care of that for you and you'll be good with heavy RN and FN bullets.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Thanks Capo!

Those 450 Woodleighs with an SD of .360 will be a hammer. What velocities? I was thinking they should go 2,200-2,250

quote:
Originally posted by capoward:
quote:
Originally posted by oscar:
I was thinking more like around .5". I would like a little leway for bullets like woody's 450.From crimp to bullet tip it's fairly short and moving it out to use the length of a long action magazine will place more of the bore diameter shank of the bullet above the case mouth.This would limit overall length on alot of bullets with a short freebore.

I really dislike the way my Ruger #1's have no freebore to speak of, it is very irritating.
Oscar,

Tell Dave Kiff that you want this:
Length of Freebore + Neck Chamfer = 0.5"
Length from Neck Chamfer to Bore Diameter: 0.710"
computed into the reamer shop print. Dave will take care of that for you and you'll be good with heavy RN and FN bullets.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Capoward, Thankyou Sir,

That sounds perfect.I will copy & paste your note onto the message I send. Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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SD of .360?? WOW! Those things will go through tanks lol. It'll be interesting to see what Oscar can do with those. I think I am more interested on working with the 347/350/340's and 380's. Even loaded easy they should be zipping along pretty well.


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2201 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Boomstick,

Those 450's look wonderful.I am hoping we can get up to 2250 with them,but that may only be possible within reasonable pressures if we can get the crimp groove moved down.Those soft points at 2200-2250 should penetrate in soft tissue until the next day!

I think we may be able to seat the 400 Barnes banded solid into the second groove giving it some more space in the case and I like the way the FN copper solids have the multiple grooves,they can be crimped to the best length easily.I am thinking we should be able to get 2350-2400 out of a 24" barrel.

I know it would be long for caliber,what I would really like is a 425-450 gr. FN copper solid. We could adjust its length to its maximum.Imagine with that SD at 2200-2250....Wow! Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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MileHighShooter,

Thats what makes this round so great in my opinion, the light bullets at reasonably high velocity are the second half of the equation.

You have a round that is so close to being a true big bore,its practically kissing .450 Bore, with bullet weights leaning to 500 grs. for the heavy stuff and 300-350 gr. bullets on the other end with decent BC's & SD's that make it act more like the .416's.

All that in a gun that was a run of the mill .375 you can get at your local sporting goods store.

Whats not to love!!!! Oscar
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Boomy & Oscar,

Probably should have asked first before giving recommendation. The CIP standard for the 404 Jeff is 3.530"/89.66mm so bullet crimp for 450gr Woodleigh will be set for .655"/16.64mm bullet protrusion from case - if that is of any concern.

What magazine length does the rifle have that you're using and what cartridge OAL are you shooting for?


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Hey Guys,

OK…just decided to run some different scenarios using a cylinder shaped FN with a very short ogive length and a 70% metaplat. Here is the recomputed the data for a PT&G reamer shop print:
1) Standard length - Cartridge OAL: 3.530”
Length of Freebore + Neck Chamfer = 0.410"
Length from Neck Chamfer to Bore Diameter: 0.620"
Throat Angle: 1º30’
2) Long length - Cartridge OAL: 3.630”
Length of Freebore + Neck Chamfer = 0.5"
Length from Neck Chamfer to Bore Diameter: 0.710"
Throat Angle: 1º30’
2) Magnum length - Cartridge OAL: 3.830”
Length of Freebore + Neck Chamfer = 0.6"
Length from Neck Chamfer to Bore Diameter: 0.810"
Throat Angle: 1º30’

The standard-length OAL dimensions can be utilized even for the long-length OAL cartridge if you stay with a nose shape that is no shorter and less rounded than Michael’s SST/Lehigh bullets; GSC, North Fork, and Barnes BND SLD will also be fine.

Hope this didn't cause any problems.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4953 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Capoward,

Thankyou very much Sir.

I have to apologize,I am writing this from a friends computer.Mine crashed over the week end and will be 1-2 weeks in repair or I may have to purchase a new one.

So I will not be able to log on or send & recieve E-mails for the time being.

Hope to be back soon. Oscar.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Pittsburgh PA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the good info Capo =) beer


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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waveHello,

Back again.Sorry for the delay,E-Mail to Dave Kiff has been sent today with everyone's suggestions and just waiting for a reply.

Oscar
 
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Go team 404-375! BOOM


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
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