Good morning gents,

If you wanted to load a 30.06 to the utmost of the cartridge's capabilities, in terms of the size of game rather than speed/pressure, what bullet would you use?

The intended use is for driven moose and camels ( though not on the same hunt obviously )

With thanks,

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
I don't think too many animals would walk away from a stiff loaded 180 gr. premium bullet (I'd personally load a Swift A-Frame) sent through the vitals from an ought 6.. I dare say the only animal I wouldn't hunt with that combo would be elephant.

Todd

Ditto - Except use the 200 Swift-A

I agree with the first two posters. A premium bullet that will not fail. A-Frame, TSX, Partition, et cet. I've gotten over 34" of penetration with a 168 TSX in my .30-06, so I don't think that the bullet weight is as important with the premium bullets. If you do none premium, use a 220 grain Hornady roundnose.

LWD

CEB ESP RAPTOR

Take a look @ this thread; 308 Winchester Photo & 300 Mag Photo.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6711043/m/2581025461

The same .30 Cal Bullet could be loaded in a 30/06 Cartridge.

PAPI

30/06
165 gr bullet
3000 + FPS


http://www.youtube.com/hornady...g#p/u/54/iO3k5t1Xa1Y

On something as large as moose or camel you probably want to stay with the 180gr-200gr for the added penetration. If you can push any premium bullet to about 2800fps MV you should be good to go out to 200 yards.

If your rifle likes 180 grain bullets and you can push them to 2750 or 2800 you have a winner.
At longer ranges (300+) the 180 delivers more energy than the lighter faster or heavier slower bullets.
I've shot a lot of game with a 30/06 and 180 grain bullets never as large as a camel or Moose but killed plenty of elk with it and never felt like I needed a bigger rifle or different bullet.
I wouldn't hesitate to use that combo for any animals you mentioned.

IMO the 200grn premuim and lead core bullet is the best bet for 30-06, in South Afrika you can shoot every citter up to eland, velocity in 2300 - 2400fps range, the -06 wil do every thing the magnums would do!

My first choice would be a 180 TSX as fast as it will shoot accuratly.

My second chouce would be a 180 TSX as fast as it will shoot accuratly.

third I would go with a 165 TSX. I shot 13 animals with it this year including an elk, gemsbok, a haretebeast and it worked beautifully on them.

If you can not shoot a TSX then my next shoice would be a Swift A Frame.

Having pressure tested loads in the '06 you can reach some of the velocities mentioned if you've a 26" barrel and stay at slightly under 63,000 psi. You can go over that in a new modern action and with new cases but you'd better be knowing what you're doing as the case doesn't have the web support that magnum cases have.

I use a 190 gr Hornady SPBT at 2670 fps and 63,000 psi in my newer M70 with 24" barrel for large game. I've always considered Hornady bullets at standard velocities to be "premium" bullets. I've had complete success with that bullet.

Larry Gibson

One of the many virtues of the 30-06 is that you can load anything from 90 gr pistol bullets to 250 gr Woodleighs. With the old Hornady 220 gr steel jacketed solids or the new Woodleighs a carefull hunter can press it into service for any animal on earth.

I'm liking the 30-06 with the 180 TSX for bigger animals more and more. I just killed a big bull elk with an end to end shot. Great penetration and huge tissue damage. I'm sure it would work fine om European moose but I don't know enough about camels to comment.

Mark

A 200 or 220 grn partition and get close.

I like the 180- Nosler Partition, with around 57 Grains of IMR4350. Goes thru a bull elk at 200yds. 6 of them dead right there.

Good Luck

Jerry

My best 30-06 large game load has been the Hornady 190 BTSP Interlock over a max charge of Reloader 22. Velocity approaches 2800 fps, accuracy is around 1" for multiple 3 shot groups, and it kills elk very handily.

The CEB Raptors, no doubt
Makes a Barnes TSX look lame. Massive damage and very deep penetration.

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
Good morning gents,

If you wanted to load a 30.06 to the utmost of the cartridge's capabilities, in terms of the size of game rather than speed/pressure, what bullet would you use?

The intended use is for driven moose and camels ( though not on the same hunt obviously )

With thanks,

I seriously doubt using the 30-06 on moose (elk) or camels will stretch the 30-06's capabilities with any reasonable bullet. My long-time favorite is the 180 Partition.

I have been lurking on this whole non-con bullet thing and there is something that I fail to comprehend:

"Massive damage" ??????????????

Why ?

What reason on earth would justify hunting game for meat or as a trophy using a projectile that causes "massive damage" ?

For years the holy grail of the perfect hunting bullet was a bullet that expanded but kept it together, a bullet that killed effectively without blowing usable meat into blood burger and above all bullets that did not blow fist sized holes on the exit side ruining good trophies?

What has changed?

So far nobody has brought up anything close to streching the capabilities of the 30-06. That is the beauty of the round. So long as the shooter is up to the task it works on anything. elephant cullers in Africa even use it.
I've posted this photo of me with a Brown Bear before but it shows just how far a guy can go with the 30-06 using good bullets. I was using 220 Partitons @ 2500fps

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
The CEB Raptors, no doubt
Makes a Barnes TSX look lame. Massive damage and very deep penetration.

Cheers, John

The raptors are the new top dog.
Raptors out perform the competition by far.
Will take a while for the world to catch up.

quote:

Posted 17 October 2011 08:57 Hide Post
I have been lurking on this whole non-con bullet thing and there is something that I fail to comprehend:

"Massive damage" ??????????????

Why ?

What reason on earth would justify hunting game for meat or as a trophy using a projectile that causes "massive damage" ?

Because damage is what kills and besides having a duty to consume the meat of the game we kill, we also have a duty to kill it ASAP.

Besides, a smart hunter doesn't shoot game animals with tasty meat where the meat is located.

I was taught to hunt by my dad, who said that you always tried to shoot animal half the way up and just behind the front leg. It works, and damages little meat.

Alf
I respect your experience and posts first of all. On a moose or camel with the 130 grain Raptor hollow point broadside shot you should get a pass through and entry and exit wounds not too big but the terminal damage should be better than any other 30 caliber out there. The petals most likely would not exit but do great damage to the vitals. Dan should hopefully have a good report on an elk with the raptors after this weekend. I'll update the thread when that happens.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
I have been lurking on this whole non-con bullet thing and there is something that I fail to comprehend:

"Massive damage" ??????????????

Why ?

What reason on earth would justify hunting game for meat or as a trophy using a projectile that causes "massive damage" ?

For years the holy grail of the perfect hunting bullet was a bullet that expanded but kept it together, a bullet that killed effectively without blowing usable meat into blood burger and above all bullets that did not blow fist sized holes on the exit side ruining good trophies?

What has changed?

If we are talking about stretching capabilities I think the Raptors should be bullet #1. If you look at the tests of the 30 cal Raptor from an anemic 30-30 load it is astonishing. It made the good old 30-30 out perform a magnum premium heavy weight loads. That I "stretching" in an awesome way.

I can not say that I'm stretching the cabilities of the cartridge. I have one load that shoots well in all four of my 06's. Winchester cases, 200 gr Nosler Partitions and a case full of H4831. Does everything I need a rifle to do.

Aaron

quote:

Originally posted by Carolina Man:
I can not say that I'm stretching the cabilities of the cartridge. I have one load that shoots well in all four of my 06's. Winchester cases, 200 gr Nosler Partitions and a case full of H4831. Does everything I need a rifle to do.

Aaron

Cant argue with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

The intended use is for driven moose and camels

SIGN ME UP!!!

quote:

( though not on the same hunt obviously )

On a more serious note;
The .308 is the most common caliber for moose in Finland. According to the gundealers, some 70% of moose rifles in Finland sold today are .308. In view of this, whatever is used in that gun will be a peach in the .30-06.
The second most common is still the .30-06 (although outsold by the 9,3x62 recently) and then there is the ever-lasting 7,62x53R which performance-wise essentially is a flanged .308/.30-06.

Most commonly the Sako factory ammunition is used, whereas other favor Lapua - especially the Naturalis which, in truth, is one of the best monometal bullets ever designed and available today.
The Lapua Mega gets more mixed reviews.
The above is also no ad for Sako ammunition - I would not use Sako Hammerhead or Super Hammerhead on heavy game if I have any reasonable choice. But the majority of our 80,000 to 100,000 moose shot annually fall to them.

Without personal experience of these bullets, using the Swift A-Frame, Nosler Partition, Barnes X or North Fork will yield the most out of any caliber, it appears.

Personally, the old Speer Grand Slam in a .30-06 resulted in one-shot kills only in Zimbabwe where I took half a dozen plains game including zebra and eland. I shot the eland at a lazered 176 meters (199 yds) and it pretty much dropped in its tracks.
It is to be noted that this was the "old" design of the Grand Slam and the views regardng the new design are more reserved.
In Namibia I got phenomenal performance on oryx using the Norma Alaska. Better yet, it seems, is the Norma Oryx also known as the "poor man's premium" bullet.

Weight-wise I'd stick with the 180grs mainly because there is most load data available; and also this weight should suit most modern rifles' barrel twist.
200grs will not be a mistake, but despite what some say ref. the lighter 165grs I'd be hesitant to use that weight. Without wanting to enter into a ravaging war I motivate this by saying that the extra velocity gives you little. From personal experience, albeit limited, with other calibers I do attest to the performance of a slighlty slower bullet.
This said, LWD certainly does have a point ref. weight and premium bullets. On the NitroExpress.com forum we had a discussion about 200 v. 220grs bullets in 8mm caliber, and certainly the consensus was that with today's bullets, weight is less of a factor (within reason).

- Lars/Finland

From Optimum '06 By Craig Boddington

quote:

My pet loads for the .30-06 are, first and foremost--and for 28 years now--56 grains of IMR 4350 behind a 180-grain Nosler Partition. In most rifles this load delivers an honest 2,800 fps (certainly from a 24-inch barrel, sometimes from a 22-inch barrel). The marriage of a 180-grain Nosler Partition to a fast .30-06 load approaches perfection in bullet performance.

Would be great to get you guys all over the world to try these Raptors in your rifles to see how you like them. It's a big change from cup and core and X type bullets but it's rare something new and worthwhile comes on the market that can stretch the performance of non magnum or even magnum carts.

There is no doubt other bullets on the market can work. Other than a good shot the Raptors have exceeded other bullets on the market in tests and can be more deadly and accurate. In some ways the Raptor acts like a Nosler Partition but in a monometal. It blows off the nose and leaves a penetrating base. All this and is more accurate, shoots flatter, farther and more deadly. The only thing to overcome is suspicion of something new.

quote:

Originally posted by Carolina Man:
I can not say that I'm stretching the cabilities of the cartridge. I have one load that shoots well in all four of my 06's. Winchester cases, 200 gr Nosler Partitions and a case full of H4831. Does everything I need a rifle to do.

Aaron

Sorry if my enthusiasm is a bit much. I'll just for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
Good morning gents,

If you wanted to load a 30.06 to the utmost of the cartridge's capabilities, in terms of the size of game rather than speed/pressure, what bullet would you use?

The intended use is for driven moose and camels ( though not on the same hunt obviously )

With thanks,

I lucked into a Browning model 95 30-06. Originally I planned on rebarreling it to 375 Whelen. After shooting it as a 30-06 using 208 grain cast bullets, I'm leaving it alone.
A very hard cast gas checked bullet would deal with either of those critters and be cheaper then the store bought.

Jim

Thank you for all the replies gentlemen.

Please forgive my not replying to specific posters' points as it would double the length of the thread.

The most interesting point made was that my intended quarry do not stretch the capabilities of the 30.06. Thanks in particular to Mr. Shoemaker for his rather reassuring photo.

I think I'll take a wander down to the reloading supply shop and see what they have in the way of 180-220 grain bullets.

Thank you all for the recommendations and insights.

Boomstick, I don't mind you advertising your products but would have been more interested in your product if there was a chance of me getting them.

You can get them. CEB has an importer they are working with.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
You can get them. CEB has an importer they are working with.

Well, who is it?

I have used my 30-06 in Africa several times but only on game such as Kudu and Wildebeest, and those with perfect success. I used 220gr Nosler Partitions and would use them again to take anything under Dangerous Game in Africa given the opportunity.

While moose are larger, most people who have hunted both tend to think elk (wapiti) the tougher of the two. I'm not sure how to compare either to camels, however .

And while there's nothing wrong with the heavier bullets, I've found 180 grain Partitions to provide through-and-through penetration on large game. Therefore, the slower, heavier bullets don't add anything in the way of trauma and do detract something in the way of trajectory and range.

Insofar as comparisons with larger .30's, the 180 grain Partition (and several similar bullets) out of a .30-06 will yield the same results that the same bullet out of a .300 Ultramag will, but just 100 yards closer. In other words, a .30-06 at 200 yards strikes with about the same authority that a .300 Ultramag (or Win Mag or WBY mag) does at 300 yards.

Bottom line: If you can kill it with a .300 Magnum at 400 yards, you can kill it with a .30-06 at 300 yards, and it will be easier to hit.

Secondary bottom line: A 180 grain premium bullet will provide all the penetration you need for non-dangerous game, so why burden yourself with the more curved trajectory of a heavier bullet? The exception might be if you're confident that shots will be relatively close, in which case the heavier bullet will do as well and may provide a little perceived insurance of penetration on very large game.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
You can get them. CEB has an importer they are working with.

Well, who is it?

08/10/2011

Reloading International is now set up to export our bullets to many different countries. Their fees are very reasonable and their charge is 10% over the retail price to cover the cost of the necessary paperwork. Please visit their web site at www.reloadinginternational.com or call at 541-404-2262 for details. You can also email Mike Gregg at mike@reloadinginternational.com. Until they get our product lines on their web site orders will have to be placed by phone or email. It takes approximately 2 weeks for the permits to go through so please keep that in mind. All bullets will be shipped priority mail and the shipping cost is roughly $35.00 to Canada and $53.00 to other countries.

quote:

Secondary bottom line: A 180 grain premium bullet will provide all the penetration you need for non-dangerous game, so why burden yourself with the more curved trajectory of a heavier bullet? The exception might be if you're confident that shots will be relatively close, in which case the heavier bullet will do as well and may provide a little perceived insurance of penetration on very large game.

That's the thing that's been bugging me. Would driven moose be shot at relativly close range? I haven't a clue on what range one would be shooting at a camel so I won't comment.
Lately I've been experimenting with heavy for caliber bullets. Right now it's the 175 gr. round nose Hornady in my 7x57. After all, thet was the bullet that cartridge built it's reputation on.
I've been thinking of the 220 gr. round nose in the 30-06 as well just for spits and grins. There was an interesting article by the late Finn Aagaard where he as shooting (cull hunt?) several Whitetail Deer with 220 gr. RN bullets from a 30-06 with some very interesting results. I forget which brand of bullet he used but the exit holes were a lot larger than I expected. My guess would be 2 to 3 inches across. Interesting.
Paul B.

quote:

I haven't a clue on what range one would be shooting at a camel so I won't comment.

I imagine they could be hunted in some wide open country, so I'd choose a load with good legs. For a multi-continent load, I would start with a good 180gr spitzer style, such as the 180gr Accubond, and go from there.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
While moose are larger, most people who have hunted both tend to think elk (wapiti) the tougher of the two. I'm not sure how to compare either to camels, however .

And while there's nothing wrong with the heavier bullets, I've found 180 grain Partitions to provide through-and-through penetration on large game. Therefore, the slower, heavier bullets don't add anything in the way of trauma and do detract something in the way of trajectory and range.

Insofar as comparisons with larger .30's, the 180 grain Partition (and several similar bullets) out of a .30-06 will yield the same results that the same bullet out of a .300 Ultramag will, but just 100 yards closer. In other words, a .30-06 at 200 yards strikes with about the same authority that a .300 Ultramag (or Win Mag or WBY mag) does at 300 yards.

Bottom line: If you can kill it with a .300 Magnum at 400 yards, you can kill it with a .30-06 at 300 yards, and it will be easier to hit.

Secondary bottom line: A 180 grain premium bullet will provide all the penetration you need for non-dangerous game, so why burden yourself with the more curved trajectory of a heavier bullet? The exception might be if you're confident that shots will be relatively close, in which case the heavier bullet will do as well and may provide a little perceived insurance of penetration on very large game.

On a large animal the small advantage of trajectory means a lot less than on a distant whitetail or some varmit.