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Kigosi 21 days
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Here are the poachers themselves. I felt rather sorry for them, but perhaps one or two of them shall be hired as game scouts. This picture is a digital photo of a polaroid print. The trackers and game scouts and camp boys loved to get polaroids of themselves with game or at their jobs. Even the poachers smiled when they got a polaroid of themselves.


Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
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Posts: 8100 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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I know nothing about lion but have heard that when the leader of a pride is replaced the new head of the pride kills all the cubs so that females will become fertile sooner and thus he can more rapidly spread his genes. If this is so, it suggests that killing male lions may have a much greater effect than killing other trophy animals.

Is this the case in practice? Are most lions shot pride leaders or are they past their "use by" date, already having been ejected from the pride.

I'd love to shoot a lion but would have reservations if I thought that a number of cubs would die as a result. A bit like "Shakari's" view of hunting female ele.

mike
 
Posts: 238 | Registered: 08 December 2004Reply With Quote
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Mike,

You're quite right. Each African country has it's own policy on Lion hunting (some don't have a policy at all!) but the generally accepted idea is to take a Lion that is either not holding a pride and has been ejected, is nomadic or to take a Lion(s) that is holding a pride that doesn't have young cubs and is liable to lose it anyway. - Latest ideas are to take these ones on a "rolling basis". The hunting company/team/PH will identify individual prides that are suitable and then line up maybe 2 clients to come in one after the other and take the (usually) two Lions holding a pride that meet that criteria......

Some safari companies (notably TGTS) and some scientists (Notably Craig Packer) have put together some very interesting papers etc to help identify and age Lions........ a lot of this hasn't been proven to work throughout Africa - just in individual locations such as Serengeti. -(IMO) some are accurate and some less so, Wink but that's the way scientific research goes - if it was easy, it would have been proved long ago! Wink

In Tanzania for example the minimum age requirement for a Lion is currently 6 years - the currently popular way of judging the age is by the colour of the nose...... personally, I don't think this should be used as the sole criteria -. I think one should take into account other factors such as width of head, mane development not only in length but also hairline across the forehead and other places, general musculature, behaviour and a few other factors........ however, that's a whole different subject.

But we don't live in an ideal world and sometimes pride holding Lions will wander away from the women and kids and then one has to work out if he's been kicked out by other males of if he's just looking for some peace and quiet. - There's also factors such as are there plenty of Lions in the area or not and what to do if a pride holding Lion becomes a man eater, or potential man eater or camp worrier....... To say nothing of many other factors that may influence the PHs decision on what is and is not suitable for taking........






 
Posts: 12411 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
To say nothing of many other factors that may influence the PHs decision on what is and is not suitable for taking........


Yea, factor in the client jumping up and down on the PH's head. rotflmo

I can here shakari now " Sorry old chap, he's defiantly over six with that huge mane and all but this blokes holding a pride, best move along and see if we can spot that scraggly simba we seen the other day." hammering

I guess in the real world you wouldn't let the client see that lion in the first place. sofa


 
Posts: 177 | Location: The Arkansas Line | Registered: 15 May 2005Reply With Quote
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Here are some picts of Palm Camp and an ele at
Sable Camp






Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
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Posts: 8100 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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And some Topi picts




Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
Tanzania 06
Argentina08
Argentina
Australia06
Argentina 07
Namibia
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Posts: 8100 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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GunNut, since you chose to jump in here its clear you don't know what you are talking about. I cleared it up. Do a search and catch up.............JJ


" venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae "
 
Posts: 593 | Location: Southern WV, USA | Registered: 03 August 2004Reply With Quote
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Great pics!
 
Posts: 705 | Location: MIDDLE TENNESSEE | Registered: 25 June 2005Reply With Quote
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You know, a topi isn't the most impressive trophy, but to me it really makes me think of kigosi - those things are all over the place, along with reedbuck. And while there are plenty of buffalo and sable, you see the topi and reedbuck at all times of the day - everywhere.


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Posts: 7435 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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What was the reason for the tents being put up that high on those poles? I have never seen them that high. Just curious.
 
Posts: 10918 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
GunNut, since you chose to jump in here its clear you don't know what you are talking about. I cleared it up. Do a search and catch up.............JJ


JJ,

Why the hostile "tone"? I was simply curious as to the nature of the issue which was cleared up for you. I was actually trying to say that if the agent and outfitter did the right thing it would be interesting to hear about. I was not criticizing you or anyone else.

How am I supposed to know there were previous posts on the topic? I am relatively new to this website.

Further I thought forums existed for folks to "jump in". I will never understand the hostility people exhibit in forums...especially with NO provocation whatsoever.

All I said was:

quote:
JJMILLER,

I'd be curious to know the problems which were fixed. People are quick to criticize but not as quick to compliment when problems are fixed.

If you are willing to share it would be educational to hear what problems occurred before your hunt and how they were corrected ahead of time.

GN


What is your hostility about? I was simply noting that you complimented 2 guys (which is rare in forums) and was curious as to what they did to earn your praise.

Maybe a polite referral to your previous posts would have been better than your rude reply.

GN
 
Posts: 34 | Registered: 06 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Gunnut, 2 things.

One.....I wanted to make sure you were really a new poster and not one of our split personalities who enjoy stirring the pot.

Two.....I thought you ment me when you said people are quick to criticise, I mis-read that, my mistake.

I had a hunt go bad for reasons no one involved have really been able to figure out. It just did. Wendell Reich, Licky Abdulla, Dale Harvey and Adam Clements worked it out and I ended up with a 44 and 46 inch buff on my free return hunt.


But it got kinda stinky between hunts but it ended well.

Sorry if I took your post in the wrong vein.........JJ


" venator ferae bestiae et aquae vitae "
 
Posts: 593 | Location: Southern WV, USA | Registered: 03 August 2004Reply With Quote
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LarryShores, I'm not sure of the reason they apprear to be highter than normal. The elevation was nice to catch the breeze and get a little above the tsetses and other bugs. There is also yearly flooding in the area, but I have no idea how high the water gets. Maybe
Wendell or AnotherAZwriter knows.


Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
Tanzania 06
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Posts: 8100 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
Gunnut, 2 things.

One.....I wanted to make sure you were really a new poster and not one of our split personalities who enjoy stirring the pot.

Two.....I thought you ment me when you said people are quick to criticise, I mis-read that, my mistake.

I had a hunt go bad for reasons no one involved have really been able to figure out. It just did. Wendell Reich, Licky Abdulla, Dale Harvey and Adam Clements worked it out and I ended up with a 44 and 46 inch buff on my free return hunt.


But it got kinda stinky between hunts but it ended well.

Sorry if I took your post in the wrong vein.........JJ



JJ,

Thanks for the clarification. I think it's good when an agent/outfitter "makes it right".

Good hunting.

GN
 
Posts: 34 | Registered: 06 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I don't know why the tents are up high; perhaps for the breeze. It sure wasn't wet, that is for sure.


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Posts: 7435 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Last few Picts. old buff, unknownm sweet fruit tree, hanging bait,MaribouStorks at bone ground, saddlebillStork,Sausage Tree, spined and down.











Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
Tanzania 06
Argentina08
Argentina
Australia06
Argentina 07
Namibia
Arnhemland10
Belize2011
Moz04
Moz 09
 
Posts: 8100 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Here's Hanging Bait


Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
Tanzania 06
Argentina08
Argentina
Australia06
Argentina 07
Namibia
Arnhemland10
Belize2011
Moz04
Moz 09
 
Posts: 8100 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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hi
very nice muzlle loader. which caliber it has?it seems it worked on the buffalu Smiler


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Posts: 1807 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 23 September 2005Reply With Quote
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The poor fellows who got caught seemed pleased at getting their picture taken.
I have no idea as to caliber on the muzzleloader.


Steve
"He wins the most, who honour saves. Success is not the test." Ryan
"Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Stalin
Tanzania 06
Argentina08
Argentina
Australia06
Argentina 07
Namibia
Arnhemland10
Belize2011
Moz04
Moz 09
 
Posts: 8100 | Location: NW Arkansas | Registered: 09 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Fantastic Leopard and some really nice old buffalo. Great Lions are taken here with monotonous frequency and the stringent policies that have been embraced in Tanzania will ensure that the Lion population is both healthy and increasing.


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Posts: 8857 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Great Lions are taken here with monotonous frequency and the stringent policies that have been embraced in Tanzania will ensure that the Lion population is both healthy and increasing.


Not anymore since the New Consession holder (after TGTS) is overshooting the area. Enormous Poaching is also there.

Seloushunter


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Posts: 2148 | Registered: 29 May 2005Reply With Quote
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All in all a heck of a great safari I would say. Well done Steve ! Dean is indeed a top notch PH and it looks like a pretty busy time for the skinners. Good job!


Dave Fulson
 
Posts: 1450 | Registered: 20 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Excuse me, uh...ummm...is that a lion licking its lips?

Just wonderin Eeker
 
Posts: 221 | Location: florida big bend | Registered: 14 January 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
quote:
Great Lions are taken here with monotonous frequency and the stringent policies that have been embraced in Tanzania will ensure that the Lion population is both healthy and increasing.


Not anymore since the New Consession holder (after TGTS) is overshooting the area. Enormous Poaching is also there.

That is what bwanamitch suggested and was shot down in flames? But they do shoot big Lions don't they?

Seloushunter


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Posts: 8857 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by SGraves155:
One evening as we were returning to camp, we passed the anti-poaching patrol. They had captured 3 poachers. The poachers had come at least 50 miles on 2 bicycles, and had killed a buffalo. The rangers/game scouts had them handcuffed, and had them, the buffalo, their bicycles, and their rifle in the back of the landcruiser. Here's their rifle.


First of all congrats on a great sounding hunt and a beautiful leopard.....

That said this guy spent a lot of time pimping his poacher gun...it is bedazzled!!.......maybe this gun should be featured in a thread aboug guns that are too gay for africa! Just kidding.... rotflmo Great Pics!!



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Posts: 354 | Location: Fort Worth, TX | Registered: 12 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Steve, did you happed to notice any markings on the lock plate? The stock has been intently modified and is missing two if not three barrel bands. Judging from the iron fore end cap and butt plate, I'm guessing it's either American or Prussian. Cool pic and some excellent trophies.
David


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I removed the blood from Mr. Spots.


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