quote:

Col Allison wouldnt buy one unless it was top notch

true, he has been hunting with custom mausers and orig. Farqies for decades, and is a true single shot affectionado.
he know what is and isnt worthwhile in that department.

quote:

Originally posted by Bailey Bradshaw:
Glenn,

I can tell a lot about your rifles from the picture of the trigger group detatched. The fit and finish required for such an arrangement is on a VERY high level. In my opinion, you've created something special.

Yes I know Brian but he moved to the other end of the country a few years ago and have lost touch.

Martin has always loved Farquharsons and wanted to stock one of my barreled actions to display at Reno. So I gave him a nice stick of Turkish and he finished off what you see in the pic.It has a NECG banded H&H flip over front sight and a leather pad. This rifle is in 300H&H and is currently being engraved. Will be finished soon.

Brian explained how many hrs are consumed just in careful deburing of the CNC machined components for receivers,... then comes achieving accurate geometry and accurately mating the different components with extreme care filling, followed by final polishing. All very time consuming processes, requiring different skill levels.
People who complain about price, often have scant idea of whats really involved in the complete manufacture process from beginning to end product.
I gather that if the Martini/Hagn shop didnt have apprentices doing labor intensive processes, the cost of the action/rifle would go up.

Glenn, I applaude your efforts to make available such quality workmanship & materials ....Stupendous!

Now lets look at the typical cost of buiding such like rifles, from small operation shops.

$3500 receiver with machined integral sqre bridge and more intricate receiver geometry [more labor intensive to create than a Hagn]
$1500 barrel,threaded chambered etc, with integral block and fully draw polished.
$4000 stock work, average price charged by the better AR forum stockers.[including grip cap,rear swivel base]
$2500 1/4 Rib,machined for QD Talleys [included], front sight and barrel band.
$1500 stock blank, seems reasonable for the wood seen on the Soroka rifles.
$0500 rust blue

total: $13,500 before engraving.
Soroka Rifle is US$14,500 [with engraving]
Martini-Hagn rifle is CAD$14,500

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Now lets look at the typical cost of buiding such like rifles, from small operation shops.

$3500 receiver [being more labor intensive to create than a Hagn]
$1500 barrel,threaded chambered etc, with integral lug and fully draw polished.
$4500 stock work, typical average price charged by the better AR forum stockers.[including rear swivel base and barrel band.]
$2500 1/4 Rib,machined for QD, and front sight.
$1500 stock blank, seems a resaonable for the wood we see on the Soroka rifles.
$0500 blue

total: $13,500 before engraving.

Wow! All I can say is that I'm amazed by your prices (and you need to check your addition, grin). For example David Christman, our closest ACGG smith, charges $500 for the 1/4 rib that you show as costing $2500. At a shop rate of $80/hr (considered on the high side in another AR thread) this would be over 30 hrs work for a job that David told me takes him 4-5 hrs and takes Pete Grisel even less time (per Pete's very informative article in Gunmaker). David also told me that he charges so much extra because he HATES to do a rib.

Your other prices aren't as far off as the 1/4 rib one but the barrel cost seems quite high for a round barrel even with the integral bosses. But, to each his own. The market will tell the tale in a few years.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

Wow! All I can say is that I'm amazed by your prices (and you need to check your addition, grin). For example David Christman, our closest ACGG smith, charges $500 for the 1/4 rib that you show as costing $2500. At a shop rate of $80/hr (considered on the high side in another AR thread) this would be over 30 hrs work for a job that David told me takes him 4-5 hrs and takes Pete Grisel even less time (per Pete's very informative article in Gunmaker). David also told me that he charges so much extra because he HATES to do a rib.

Your other prices aren't as far off as the 1/4 rib one but the barrel cost seems quite high for a round barrel even with the integral bosses. But, to each his own. The market will tell the tale in a few years.
Regards, Joe

If either those two can make a 1/4 rib ,properly contact fit it,do all the other machining and final shaping,filing,finishing and polishing, all up to the standard we see on the Soroka, for $500 or less, id like to see it. Please post pics.
Grisel once manufacture M98 actions at a very reasonable price, yet he has ceased production for many years now.
If his prices and costing were so viable, there be no reason to stop making them.

my barrel costing estimate:
$300 for basic Krieger
$100 minimun for oversize blank/special program for custom profile.
$450 thread,chamber,crown & install {typical charge by Ralf Martini or Duane Weibe]
Labor charge to shape integral lugs, drill and tap.
labor charge to final finish/polish barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Soroka:
"The barrels are contoured with a full diameter ring of steel left on them approx 5" ahead of the receiver, the sides of which are machined (and then hand filed) away, after headspacing and indexing, leaving a integral lug at 6 o'clock for the forend to attach to and another at 12 o'clock for the quarter rib to locate on. This quarter rib recoil lug significantly reinforces the rib attachment- the load is taken up by the lug and not solder or screws. Additionally there is no way the forend can fall off."

Soroka 07 Quarter Rib.

Hell, J.D., this ain't no Ruger. So why are you trying to make it one?

May Bill Ruger rest in peace, great innovator and mass marketer that he was, but this is a whole n'other thing.

Quality is worth paying for, if the price can be found in one's pocket!

Like Trax and others, I also applaud Glenn for setting his sights on the pinnacle of quality, and commend him for not aiming for less.

Hi Trax and others,

Thanks for your independent view on what I am doing. I appreciate your favourable perception being brought to the table, given some of the grenades thrown my way in the last few days.

If $3000 is deemed to be a fair price for a Hagn then $4500 would be an equivalent fair price for a Soroka. I would bump the wood to $2000 a stick as an average. I don't think you would find a commercial smith to make and fit one of my ribs for less than $1500.

And then if you want to be very real about all the costs associated you have to factor in all the design costs. When Don Allen visited N.Z he told me that it cost him $500,000 to develop his model 10 when all was said and done. I would allocate half that in CAD, CAM, protyping, etc. So how many do you amortise that amount over?- let's be optimistic and say 100 rifles in the next 7 years. So theres another $2500 per rifle. And then shall we throw in some advertising at say $ 1500 per half page ad. And you need to go to those trade shows, got any idea what they cost? Add that in to your costs column.

Now add it all up, because someone has to pay for it, and suddenly the price takes on a completely different perspective.

As I said my rifles aren't expensive for what they are, when all is considered.

Do you think I should be looking to up them when I can, given what you now know?

I did purposely undershoot on cost estimate of receiver,wood & stockwork. [ was orig. going to put $4k for the action, about $2k for wood, nearer to $5k for stockwork]
Maybe a little high on the 1/4rib ,Talleys,with front sight & barrel band...but not by much.

Best to give Glenn of Soroka, an idea of what kind of narrow mindset person he trying to explain his work to.

Custom straddle floorplate/bow release/integral box bottom metal has been manufactured at least since 1904, as used on Rigby magnum Mausers, and such component has had a steady respected presence in the "best grade" rifle industry ever since.
Yet JDs' perpective of the high end custom guntrade is quite different. Heres his view regarding such components coming from Weibe,Blackburn,Echols and other quality manufacturers.
He also doesnt grasp that, such BM did not cost more than the action in 1904, and current new production units do not cost more than high quality new manufactured M98 receivers of today.
Dont expect him to comprehend what a Soroka costs to create,or what one should realistically charge.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

..It's a good-looker all right, all edges sharp and all flats flat. And it has all the visible features of the latest fashion craze, the little PC 'uniform' of some modern customs. You know, the politically-correct features like expensive custom bottom metal that costs more than the action....

Perhaps some of you need to consult Gunmaker, the publication of the ACGG. Pete Grisel wrote a good article about making and fitting a quarter-rib with his milling machine. And David Christman may be a lotta things but he's not a liar.

Re Pete's production efforts, if you do some research you'll soon find that, in the opinion of many observers, Pete got screwed out of much of his investment in Don's company by Don's widow and others. Kinda hard to invest when your investment money has disappeared.

Trax, have YOU ever made and fitted a quarter-rib? Glenn, I'm assuming that you have, but...

Trax, you like to post a lot of photos to attack my opinions and make it seem as though you're an expert. Why don't you show us some pics of some of YOUR gunmaking efforts?

I've just cited 2 fairly good (!) ACGG makers who can apparently make and fit the rib for about 1/4 of your time or less. This is not my opinion, it's their actual time and $ charge. Sounds like to me that you or your smith(s) need to read that article!

Especially if what you say about YOUR quarter-rib fab time is true. Perhaps by studying the methods of these 2 ACGG members, you can find new ways of reducing your action fab time & effort!

In any case, the market will tell the tale in a few years. Good luck to Glenn with his new rifle and good luck to Trax with trying to learn anything new.
Regards, Joe

Trax refers above to the ...Martini/Hagn shop..., which, as it happens does not exist and has not for some years. Both Martin Hagn and Ralf Martini work alone.

The gunsmiths Ralf did employ and still has some contract work completed by are both members of the "guild" and all of these gentlemen have done and are doing work for me. This info. comes from my last conversation with Ralf on Thursday last and from the many talks we have had on the phone.

Soooooo, maybe some comments here are not what they appear to be.........????????

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
Now lets look at the typical cost of buiding such like rifles, from small operation shops.

$3500 receiver with machined integral sqre bridge and more intricate receiver geometry [more labor intensive to create than a Hagn]
$1500 barrel,threaded chambered etc, with integral block and fully draw polished.
$4000 stock work, average price charged by the better AR forum stockers.[including grip cap,rear swivel base]
$2500 1/4 Rib,machined for QD Talleys [included], front sight and barrel band.
$1500 stock blank, seems reasonable for the wood seen on the Soroka rifles.
$0500 rust blue

total: $13,500 before engraving.
Soroka Rifle is US$14,500 [with engraving]
Martini-Hagn rifle is CAD$14,500

Trax,
Without knowing the quantity of an item produced your SWAGs are worthless...

Why would you make some things - barrel band, qtr rib, front sight when these can be purchased ?

Was having this exact discussion with another custom gun builder who makes his own parts instead of buying the rear sight with folding leaves.

Interesting discussion.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Trax refers above to the ...Martini/Hagn shop..., which, as it happens does not exist and has not for some years. Both Martin Hagn and Ralf Martini work alone.

The gunsmiths Ralf did employ and still has some contract work completed by are both members of the "guild" and all of these gentlemen have done and are doing work for me. This info. comes from my last conversation with Ralf on Thursday last and from the many talks we have had on the phone.

Soooooo, maybe some comments here are not what they appear to be.........????????

I was already well aware that Ralf and Martin do their own thing, however Ralf still has his shop website as martiniandhagngunmakers.com, hence that why I lazily refered to his operation as Martini/Hagn., to be more accurate I should have said "Martini gun makers".
Next time you talk to Ralf or Martin ask them if they had apprentice(s) working in the shop doing tasks on components for customers rifles.
I notice that an Hagn single or M98 bolt rifle that cost $8500 in 2005,now costs $14500.
His takedowns have also gone up similarly in price. $12000+ in 2005, vs $20,000+ currently.
Knowing and witnessing the work Ralf does, I dont have problem with those prices,
JD steele seems to have issue with the Soroka Rifle price, and most likely has the same issue with Ralfs Hagn rifle price.
Mr.Hagn had a Soroka based rifle on his display bench, stocked by himself. you thing hed do that if The Soroka supplied components werent up to his high standard?

I explained that, if you would read what I posted. Ralf HAD Chris and Jan, BOTH ACCG members in good standing WORKING for him and they were not and are not "apprentices".

Jan is a full service gunmaker on his own and Chris also builds rifles, they are separate, but, will cooperate on some projects. Ralf told me exactly this last week concerning a new project I had already spoken to Jan about and Chris also called me on some other rifles of mine he is working on.

I do not refer to AACG members as ...apprentices...and I also do not make sweeping, inaccurate generalizations to bolster my attempts to denigrate another poster here, as you have done concerning "JD". If, you are so familiar with Martini and Hagn, then PM me your name and I will ask about what you suggest next week when Ralf ships my four rifles he has finished.

Ralf and Mandy, btw, do NOT use "MartiniandHagn" and have not for some time. Their site is "Martini Gunmakers" and the rifles are so marked and also have been for some time.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I do not refer to AACG members as ...apprentices...

and if read what I posted, neither did I.

quote:

and I also do not make sweeping, inaccurate generalizations..

you are yet to confirm that my statements are sweeping,inaccurate generalizations, its purely a hollow assumption on your part.

quote:

if, you are so familiar with Martini and Hagn, then PM me your name and I will ask about what you suggest next week

ask, and post the jist of their responce, here on the open forum.

REply to my PM just sent to you and that should resolve the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
I do not refer to AACG members as ...apprentices...

and if read what I posted, neither did I.

quote:

and I also do not make sweeping, inaccurate generalizations..

you are yet to confirm that my statements are sweeping,inaccurate generalizations, its purely a hollow assumption on your part.

quote:

if, you are so familiar with Martini and Hagn, then PM me your name and I will ask about what you suggest next week

ask, and post the jist of their responce, here on the open forum.

Your knowledge of English, appears as faulty as your gun knowledge; it is GIST of RESPONSE.....

You quote all my responces to outline a simple spelling error? ,but dont address anything pertaining to the subject at hand,...Hmmmm?.. clearly you dont have anything of substance to come back at me with.
This is a gun forum so dont be too concerned about my minor spelling error,
You have yet to prove my gun knowledge on this subject as erroneous... so at this point it seems you are the one making sweeping inaccurate generalizations.
concerning Jd Steele,I dont dengrate him, he does that himself via his illeducated comments concering the custom gun trade, but your free to defend the persistent fool as much as you like.
As I said,if JD has issue with Soroka price [and questions its quality], most likely he has issue with Ralfs like prices. You havent passed comment on such.
None the less, Mr.Hagn was prepared to have Soroka on his bench for display.
That, together with Bailey Bradshaws judgement, says streams more to me than anything JDSteele might presume to know or question about Soroka.
Most important,to talk to Ralf and Martin as you said you would,and post what they had to say, here on the open forum.
..can you also kindly ask Ralf if he will produce an installed 1/4 rib equal of the Soroka,for $500[apparently only 4hrs work or less], and be able to keep his shop open charging such prices. If he can, then I guess Jd Steele is perhaps correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
REply to my PM just sent to you and that should resolve the issue.

When sending someone a PM requesting personal details, its curteous and a show of good faith, to provide your own first,
dont ya think? ...of course your opening PM statement wasnt that friendly or inviting, yet you foolishly expected someone to accomodate your request.

[quote] "...I think that you are a phoney poseur who comes here to get some weird vicarious thrill from discussing guns you do not and can never hope to own or even handle...However, why not PM me your name..." [endquote]

...illeducated...., do you actually read your own illiterate drivel? If, you are going to comment upon the erudition of others here as you seem to continually do, perhaps you might learn to write basic English correctly.

Joe, has far more credibility and gun knowledge than you ever will and can also write very clearly. You, cannot seem to post anything other than drivel.

I am not going to waste further time with you.

This thread is about premium rifles, not petty issues of gramma or spelling, now lets get back to it >>>

quote:

"I will certainly ask Ralf about this when he calls me, probably next week"

Great Dewey,
lets see if you can be true to your word, please post on the forum what his reply. I d like to know how many apprentices they actually used in their shop.

can you also kindly ask Ralf if he will produce an installed 1/4 rib equal of the Soroka,for $500[apparently only 4hrs or less work, according to your credible JD]

..and ask Ralf if he views custom straddle floorplate/bow release/integral box mauser BM like found on high quality rifles since the days of 1904 magnum Rigbys, the same way Steele does;

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:

..It's a good-looker all right, all edges sharp and all flats flat. And it has all the visible features of the latest fashion craze, the little PC 'uniform' of some modern customs. You know, the politically-correct features like expensive custom bottom metal that costs more than the action....

New custom BM like found on high grade rifles 105 yrs ago , are in someones mind "the Latest politically correct fashion craze"...
It only takes reasonable custom gun knowledge to know that a new custom receiver or old M98 completely worked over and upgraded by a high grade smith,will cost way more than a new custom BM, say from BB or Weibe.
If one planned to build an high grade M98 bolt rifle without doing any great improvement,mod. or refinement to an old receiver,then sure you could have custom BM that cost more than the old action.
But which high grade smith in their right mind would build a pedigree rifle that way?
Why is it Steele has issue with what custom BM costs,Soroka costs,etc
If he knows so much about smithing & prices, and has advice for makers of those products [which he thinks are overpriced] why dont he open a shop and demonstrate how equally fantastic a level of work can be achieved at much lower prices...and have people beating his door down for business.
You could be his favourite customer Dewey.

quote:

illeducated

Sorry for the thread drift but that is gold. LOL


You have got to love forums for some of the words used.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Ralf and Mandy, btw, do NOT use "MartiniandHagn" and have not for some time. Their site is "Martini Gunmakers" and the rifles are so marked and also have been for some time.

To the best of my knowledge their business site is still
http://www.martiniandhagngunmakers.com/
only when one opens it up does he present his business name as "MARTINI GUNMAKERS LTD."

But please, post a weblink to the site you claim exists.

Martin Hagn, however has established a business website in his name alone. http://www.hagnriflesandactions.com/Home-Test.html

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
As I said,if JD has issue with Soroka price [and questions its quality], most likely he has issue with Ralfs like prices. You havent passed comment on such.

I don't THINK I've ever questioned the Soroka quality.

Yes, I question whether the price will be in the range that will make the rifle popular with enough folks to make the production profitable enough to continue for very long. So what, it's just an opinion about the price range.

Ralf Martini and Martin Hagn are both well-known quantities in the custom gun world and their price ranges are well-supported by their own fame as well as their multitude of satisfied clients. Soroka is still a little-known quantity at this point.

Glenn is free to price his product at whatever level he likes and his customers are free to either purchase it or not. (frankly Scarlett, at this point I don't give a damn, grin)

I have no issues with Glenn even if he doubts that ACGG members commonly produce custom one-off quarter ribs in a few hours, as they've said. The fact that YOU publicly doubt it, even after Gunmaker-printed evidence to the contrary, merely reinforces my opinion of your lack of knowledge and expertise.

So, Trax, how many quarter-ribs have YOU fabbed? For that matter, how many rifles have YOU built, with your own hands? Thus far, the only expertise I've seen you show is in finding photos from other forums and in denigrating my own contributions.

IMO you need to learn to add, learn to use the language properly, learn to use realistic cost/time estimates and, finally, learn how to actually DO custom work before you provoke such controversies. Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance.
Hugs and kisses, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
If he knows so much about smithing & prices, and has advice for makers of those products [which he thinks are overpriced] why dont he open a shop and demonstrate how equally fantastic a level of work can be achieved at much lower prices...and have people beating his door down for business.
.

In a nutshell,

"If I don't wanta, I don't hafta!
You can't make me, I'm retired!"

And, I might add, am also EXTREMELY happy that I no longer have to put up with clients like you. I commonly turn down over 80% of the commissions offered me and AAMOF am not accepting any new work at this time.

You're just mad 'cause I'm right and you're wrong, oh so wrong.....
More hugs and kisses, Joe

It is a waste of time and energy to respond to an obvious charlatan and troublemaker such as Trax. I doubt tbat he owns a custom rifle of any provenance and his "knowledge" of fine guns comes from haunting gunshows and perhaps AACG shows to pester gunmakers into allowing him to fondle their creations and fantasize.

I cannot be bothered with such an imbecile and I commend you, Joe, for your forbearance in responding to his foolish remarks.

That said, I agree with most of your comments concerning guns from various British marques and would only add that the difference in checkering really reflects the attitudes of those who use these guns as they see it as an aid to field function, not so much a decoration as in American custom pieces. They certainly capitalize on the "name" factor of their products, however, some American makers do as well....and, so would I if I were a famous gunmaker!

My feeling on these Soroka rifles is that the price asked is fair and I would LOVE to have one in .303 British for deer hunting here in BC. Given that many of my synthetic-stocked, tuned and scoped hunting rifles, such as my original Brno ZG-47 in 9.3x62, that Martini's did for me last year, cost about 5K, all in, I do not see this rifle's price as excessive.

I find this an interesting and enlightening discussion and most here have made comments well worth consideration, IMHO.

Well, I'm not qualified to comment on the pricing but I sure wish I had a Soroka and a Bailey Bradshaw rifle. They are both beautiful.

quote:

Originally posted by 7kongoni:
Well, I'm not qualified to comment on the pricing but I sure wish I had a Soroka and a Bailey Bradshaw rifle. They are both beautiful.

Me too!
Regards, Joe

Guys,

I know I promised a range report on my Soroka rifle after my scheduled range trip yesterday. Alas, we had steady winds at 30-35 mph, gusting to 50 mph. Needless to say, it was not a day for range work. We'll both have to wait awhile longer for the report.

TT

Thanks, TT.

Unfortunately, there's been a lotta wind blowing around on this thread recently, too.

Regards,

Ain't it the truth!

TT

Given the overwhelming amount of self-absorbed crap that seems to be falling from the lips of some of the experts that are espousing their view of this single shot, I feel compelled to share this old ditty.

"I tried to see the world from his point of view,
but I couldn't fit my head up his asshole too."


Another point of view might be- there are 300 million Americans, some of whom are extremely wealthy, Soroka can make maybe 20 a year (guess).

Perhaps these rifles are made for a different buyer than those who have to choose between a $15,000 single shot and something else.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Why would you make some things - barrel band, qtr rib, front sight when these can be purchased ?

Was having this exact discussion with another custom gun builder who makes his own parts instead of buying the rear sight with folding leaves.
.

500N,

sometimes the customer wants different to regular off the shelf components.
For example, one can get bolt handles from Halfmoon,Talley etc or scollaped bases from Conetrol,
Instead I opted for:
- an one of produced & designed bolt handle built from barstock to my prefered geometry,
- better proportioned full contact machined from block custom bases[with smaller dia. grubs] for the Conetrol rings. Rings have also been trued-re-machined.
- Geometries on the Blackburn BM have also been modified-refined.
- I stayed with regular Talley grip cap,swivel base and barrel band.
- All outward receiver surfaces trued,ground to produce sharp lines/well defined bevelled edges[rather than the traditional radii], in order to match the sharp edge geometry of the shroud,BM,bases & barrel reinforce.
This is definitely not a shiny on top/rough underneath creation. All metal surfaces below the woodline are done to identical impeccable std. as to that seen above woodline.
The inletting is flawless,no gaps, except behind the tang where a slight gap is prefered.

Alot of people would not pay what I did for those bases,bolt handle, and other metal refinements. But I was happy to do so.
Rather than engraving or 1/4rib-open sights that I deem unecessary, That plain jane .270 instead, only has whats required,but done specifically the way I like it.

I view the purpose of customizing as being able to please me, rather than impressing someone else, though sometimes, others will appreciate what youve done.
Still, I dont consider it an family heirloom type thing, just a simple grab n' go hog busting truck gun... just like da also revamped.300H&H Pre-64 ....

Personally, Id prefer an Soroka with integral 1/4rib and swivel base, to match the other integral features on the rifle.



http://i530.photobucket.com/al...1/norrieM98-270e.jpg

http://i530.photobucket.com/al...1/norrieM98-270b.jpg

PreWar-64 with similar treatment:

http://i530.photobucket.com/al...axar1/norrie250d.jpg

http://i530.photobucket.com/al...ar1/norrie250c-1.jpg

http://i530.photobucket.com/al...ar1/norrie250e-1.jpg

quote:

Originally posted by siberia:
Given the overwhelming amount of self-absorbed crap that seems to be falling from the lips of some of the experts that are espousing their view of this single shot, I feel compelled to share this old ditty.

"I tried to see the world from his point of view,
but I couldn't fit my head up his asshole too."


Another point of view might be- there are 300 million Americans, some of whom are extremely wealthy, Soroka can make maybe 20 a year (guess).

Perhaps these rifles are made for a different buyer than those who have to choose between a $15,000 single shot and something else.

That is certainly one aspect of the situation, however, for my uses, a singleshot rifle has VERY limited utility in today's BC hunting. I could buy one or a Martini-built rifle on the Hagn action, but, again, I am not interested in more rifles and have no heirs to leave the guns I already have to.

So, my comments here are simply made to show respect for the maker, appreciation for a superb rifle and because I enjoy talking guns here with other ornery old pharts like myself!

What else can you do when it is pounding cold rain so hard outside at the beginning of June that it seems like late November in Vancouver?

Trax,

Those are three lovely bolt action rifles. I'd be proud to own any of them. You have excellent taste.

Dewey,

Wish you could send some of that rain down to southern Arizona. We're drier than a popcorn pfardt. I certainly understand your limited use for a single shot rifle. I also appreciate your respect for the maker. A Bentley isn't in my budget, but that doesn't keep me from oohing and aahing on those rare occasions when I happen to run across one.

TT

Glenn, I have an admitted addiction to quality rifles. It's gone through many stages, but is very persistent--maybe even acute. It is currently being treated by Mr. Bradshaw.
Based on what I have seen of your rifles--if all goes well in my future---you may get to treat this addiction also.
I wish you well on your journey and hope your business is more than prosperous.

quote:

Originally posted by siberia:
Given the overwhelming amount of self-absorbed crap that seems to be falling from the lips of some of the experts that are espousing their view of this single shot, I feel compelled to share this old ditty.

"I tried to see the world from his point of view,
but I couldn't fit my head up his asshole too."


Another point of view might be- there are 300 million Americans, some of whom are extremely wealthy, Soroka can make maybe 20 a year (guess).

Perhaps these rifles are made for a different buyer than those who have to choose between a $15,000 single shot and something else.

siberia, that is priceless.

And I agree with TT, Trax. Your rifles are superb. (I'd put sights on them, but that's how I am. )

Dewey, we had pounding rain, lightning, thunder and tornados here in Massachusetts yesterday.

Plus, your Vancouver Canucks beat my Boston Bruins 1-0, in the first round of the Stanley Cup Finals, with a killer of an eighteen-seconds-to-go third period goal.

So, quit complaining, please.

I share your sentiments on gunmakers, however, and those of aliveincc, too. Makers like Glenn should be encouraged. Firearms manufacturing is a tough business, and we should welcome those with the talent, grit and determination to make a go of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Makers like Glenn should be encouraged. Firearms manufacturing is a tough business, and we should welcome those with the talent, grit and determination to make a go of it.

Well said, and I'm in total agreement.