Californians, an "FYI"

I sent a Mauser bolt to Acc-Tig on the 5th for a new bolt handle. I got it back today with a note saying "I don't/won't modify/ship firearms related items to California".

Had I known this in the first place, well, you know the rest.

His website doesn't say anything about not accepting work from folks living in California.

Hmm, that 2 day turn around must be bullshit, along with the some of the rest of their business practices. What an ahole.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
His website doesn't say anything about not accepting work from folks living in California.

Of course not, too many of us don't buy into the " I won't help an American because they live in California B.S."

that should be on his website.
other than that, its his business.. and HIS to run ...

perhaps with it not being on his website, i'd ask for a refund on my shipping.. then go find someone else.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
that should be on his website.
other than that, its his business.. and HIS to run ...

perhaps with it not being on his website, i'd ask for a refund on my shipping.. then go find someone else.

Yup, he can run his railroad any way he wants. My shipping costs were refunded.

Craigster

There are more then a few people here that can take care of you. I'd seek someone on this board to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Craigster

There are more then a few people here that can take care of you. I'd seek someone on this board to do it.

No doubt you are correct, but Accutig has a pretty unique business.

But regardless of what some guys from other states might like think, Dan at accutig is a DELETED MY KNEE JERK REACTION for refusing to do work for Californians.

As soon as I posted my reply I called Dan to find out what the real deal was.

Dan simply refuses to register with the CA DOJ because he feels that they are just part of the snowballing effort to put the screws to gun-owners. I kinda agree with him.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
As soon as I posted my reply I called Dan to find out what the real deal was.

Dan simply refuses to register with the CA DOJ because he feels that they are just part of the snowballing effort to put the screws to gun-owners. I kinda agree with him.

So let me get this straight, the CA DOJ is now requiring out of state gunsmiths to register with them so the smith can return my property to me? Is this something new? I know all about the requirements for CA residents to purchase firearms from an out of state dealer, but I have yet to run across this situation.

And yes, the CA DOJ is a major part of the "screw the law abiding firearms owner" effort. The sad thing is, this kind of shit starts here and spreads. Who's next?

The Ca DOJ doesn't require it for non transfers. i.e. GunSmith work I believe. I understand it is for transfers. Its a check to make sure the "FFL is good and correct" Or some BS like that. No fees associated with it and it's just a license check. Like being a registered dealer. No rela hoops to jump through. and not very unreasonable.
I can agree with him too but there is a lot of business to be had here and California is not exactly the plethora of top notch Gunsmiths.

We have a select few good ones but it's not like you have a great selection.

California is really depressing.
I used to work for a company based in Santa Clara. During several of the trips I checked out shops in that area. All I can say is pathetic.

Then up north in Wyreka - a country small town on the interstate. There was one gunshop that never opened and the Walmart did not carry firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
As soon as I posted my reply I called Dan to find out what the real deal was.

Dan simply refuses to register with the CA DOJ because he feels that they are just part of the snowballing effort to put the screws to gun-owners. I kinda agree with him.

What a mother trucking idiot. Last I heard, a bolt is not a receiver, therefore you do not need to register with the CA DOJ. Now, the way I see it is that the politicians are doing a good enough job of screwing CA residents, they don't need my help. I registered and enjoy doing business with Californians. It (registering) was simple and painless. The process of getting cleared for each shipment adds a whopping 5 minutes to a transaction.

However, a CA resident can send a gun to an out of state smith who can then return it straight to the owner without ever having to deal with the CA DOJ. You only have to do that for dealer to dealer transactions.

I think the worst part of all this is that people are either too stupid or too lazy to get the facts straight.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
However, a CA resident can send a gun to an out of state smith who can then return it straight to the owner without ever having to deal with the CA DOJ. You only have to do that for dealer to dealer transactions.

I think the worst part of all this is that people are either too stupid or too lazy to get the facts straight.

I don't know the rules, but it seems that Dan is under the impression that a gunsmith needs to be registered with the Ca DOJ to send any part(that has been modified) back to the owner.

None of the Walmarts in CA carry firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
I think the worst part of all this is that people are either too stupid or too lazy to get the facts straight.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
However, a CA resident can send a gun to an out of state smith who can then return it straight to the owner without ever having to deal with the CA DOJ. You only have to do that for dealer to dealer transactions.

I think the worst part of all this is that people are either too stupid or too lazy to get the facts straight.

I don't know the rules, but it seems that Dan is under the impression that a gunsmith needs to be registered with the Ca DOJ to send any part(that has been modified) back to the owner.

So Dan is ignorant and can't read. I'm not sure that I would trust someone like that to work on my guns.

Craigster, I would like to know how he legally mailed the bolt back to you, a resident of California, based on what he thinks is true about the DOJ requirements?

Seems like a lot of people in the firearm industry are jumping on this "no California business" bandwagon.

I once e-mailed a vendor selling California legal 10 round magazines for my pistol, who refused to sell me one because I was in Cal. His weak justification was that if more sellers boycotted CA buyers then it will somehow galvanize CA residents to stand up and force the laws to be changed.

My first reaction was just the opposite. I went to my neighborhood store, paid a few $$ more and bought one. I will not buy any non-firearm related stuff from sellers who subscribe to this line of thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
California is really depressing.
I used to work for a company based in Santa Clara. During several of the trips I checked out shops in that area. All I can say is pathetic.

Then up north in Wyreka - a country small town on the interstate. There was one gunshop that never opened and the Walmart did not carry firearms.

Sorry sir, I disagree with your impression of California as being depressing in terms of gun stores. If Walmart doesn't want to sell cheap firearms in CA, so be it. We have several BIG 5 stores selling low to mid $$ firearms in our fine state. Next time, you are in greater L.A area, I can point out several gun stores that cover everything from cheap Remington combo rifles to finest doubles available in the market.

We may not have too many gun shops but we have enough to buy any legal firearm available to us.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
Craigster, I would like to know how he legally mailed the bolt back to you, a resident of California, based on what he thinks is true about the DOJ requirements?

I don't know but it might be pretty serious. You know, that stripped bolt crossed both state and international borders. Do you think I might be brought up on some sort of conspiracy charges?

You just made the no fly left open list.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
Craigster, I would like to know how he legally mailed the bolt back to you, a resident of California, based on what he thinks is true about the DOJ requirements?

The only issue with shipping gun parts into California is that FFL's only from out of state have to go on the CA Dept of Justice website and verify that the receiving FFL in California has a current license. This only applies to the serialed numbered part of the firearm (receiver, action, frames, etc.)

Gunsmith's and manufaturers returning guns (even the serialed numbered frames and receivers) to the original registered owner do not hve to do this. It is only for FFL to FFL transfers.

The registration on the DOJ's site is the proof of verification.

let's step away from the emotion, and look at normal progression of law..

first, cali wants to certify what guns can be in the state.. then work ona 50 bmg ban.. next, wants every transfer REGISTERED... and keeps pushing for ammo registration.

fellas in cali.. you NEED to band together and start repealing these laws... as they are only "common sense, and modest changes to the existing laws"

remember, the only way to boil a live frog is slowly

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
fellas in cali.. you NEED to band together and start repealing these laws...

It's happening. The so-called "assault weapons" restrictions have been and continue to be peeled back - slowly for sure, but going in the right direction. The constant call for "ammunition control" is continually beaten back. San Francisco's anti-firearm laws have been reversed by higher courts. The California Rifle and Pistol Association and CalGuns.net are very active in these efforts.

Also, there is more and more discussion about total state legislative reform through the initiative process. I think that it is only a matter of time before we go back to a part-time legislature, and maybe we will go to a unicameral (one house) system at that.

quote:

fellas in cali.. you NEED to band together and start repealing these laws... as they are only "common sense, and modest changes to the existing laws"

Repeal via the legislature is not going to happen in CA, the demographics dictate such. However, a mind-blowing amount of work is being done on the legal front to overturn much of this mess. Ultimately the battles we are fighting in CA will benefit all gun owners in the US.

Before you laugh, realize that until recently there was no recognized individual 2nd amendment right in the US. Heller gave us that recognized right and Williams incorporated the states. While most of the free US enjoys significantly less restricted access to their 2A rights, that "privilege" only exists at the whim of their current governing bodies. Until we get a SC ruling affirming 2A rights, courts and legislatures can thumb their noses at us all they want.

IANAL, but I tend to follow these things, and the groundwork is being laid in places like CA, DC, MD, IL and other oppressive geographies that are leading to a tidal wave of 2A rights surging forward.

Sure, CA sucks now for gun owners, but in the long run the anti-2A zealots may well have done us all a favor by supplying a target rich environment for organizations like NRA, SAF, Calguns Foundation, CRPA, and Madison Society.

This is a chess game, and we are winning. We just need a few more wins under our belt before all hell breaks loose.

As for Dan at Accu-Tig (an all other anti-Ca a-holes), they are only shooting themselves in the foot. CA has the largest population of gun owners in the country, and retailers who recognize and support Ca shooters are reaping the benefits.

For those who doubt the work that is being done on the 2A front, check out the list of ongoing litigation here.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
let's step away from the emotion, and look at normal progression of law..

first, cali wants to certify what guns can be in the state.. then work ona 50 bmg ban.. next, wants every transfer REGISTERED... and keeps pushing for ammo registration.

fellas in cali.. you NEED to band together and start repealing these laws... as they are only "common sense, and modest changes to the existing laws"

remember, the only way to boil a live frog is slowly

THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
You folks in other states think we sat back and let this happen to us. I was out with my kids in strollers handing out brochures against some of these laws (my youngest is now 27). We fought this shit tooth and nail. The truth is that we live in a state controlled by liberal urban facists.
We banded together with the NRA and CRPA and contributed money and walked the streets and VOTED and you selfrightous A-holes, by not doing business with us, let them win.
Sorry nothing personal but when I hear someone spouting that we ignored the problem when I know how much blood sweat tears and money was spent fighting this stuff it REALLY pisses me off.

Amen Blacktailer.

Don't worry about Jeff, he likes to present himself as an expert while blatantly displaying his ignorance of most of California law and politics.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
The truth is that we live in a state controlled by liberal urban facists.

Yes, blacktailer, us and New York. And it is pretty hard to fight when there are 20 urban fascists for every gun owner.

Unfortunately guys like Jeffe think Texas has lax laws because their gun owners fight so hard, when the truth is they simply have the numbers to vote in the politicians they want.

It's like they say, "Ain't nothing ever come from Texas but steers and queers..."(sorry I just love that one)

Hate to say it Jason, but Kali has the queer market cornered.

They are not "Queer" They are "Sexually Challenged"

I have to Agree with Cas II, Blacktailer, and Jason
We did not let this happen. We are grossly out numbered by people that either are so left wing it stinks, or they just don't care about gun owners and gun rights and vote left wing.

Then theres the problem of turn coats. Bill Horn was our savor here in San diego on our board of supervisors. He use to come to our grass roots NRA meetings begging for our vote. Then a few years after he was in office he became very anti outdoorsman and therefore very anti gun.
These people will say anything to get elected then turn 180 on you and still get re elected.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Hate to say it Jason, but

Craigster, I just laugh every time I think of that quote.

I know its not true, just like the idea that California gun owners somehow brought these gun laws on ourselves is untrue.

Cali guys -
Do you feel those laws are just laws? No, you don't. You are protesting and voicing your dislike of the laws in your state, self described as overrun by liberals and gungrabbers -- spending money, effort, blood, sweat, and tears.

Yet, a guy that STANDS UP FOR YOUR FIGHT, in about the only legal way possible, by NOT conforming with those same laws you find distasteful, is a jerk?


Jason - we haven't talked on the matter.. your statement should read "what *I* think those other guys feel is..." then present YOUR perspective. You don't know mine, but can only imagine.

Compliance is acceptance, gentlemen. Those laws are NOT relevent in the other 49, today - but can be used as models for future laws.. see my first post about it.. smog controls, for example.

Those refusing to comply with cali laws (yeah, i know the bolt handle isn't relevent to the law.. i get that.. but it is HIS shop) further adds national dispute OF those laws.

Should every shopkeep comply with them, then the ONLY reasonable conclusion of a law maker is "see, those really aren't so bad.. no one cares about these steps" .. and they then are added to, or are added to other states.


Yes, the other states refusing to "help their brothers" is a means of protesting those laws.

once again, one boils a live frog slowly..

as for texas laws, Jason, you are grossly mistaken.. we have had thousands and thousands of left and east coast liberals move here, ramping up in the mid 90s, that have tried, repeatedly, to add more gun laws to Texas .. and we have fought them tooth and nail.

and the quaint saying is one from the uninformed. Cattle production is a fading industry here, there's more from colorado than texas.. the ONLY refinery able to fill your cali-law gas tank, outside of the TWO in cali, is in texas.

btw, the steers joke is a double joke.. a steer is castrated, which implied one is either balless or another unplesant option. As for texan migrating to other states, i don't know many, and can't speak for they qualities...

and before anyone says i am talking out of my armpit -- one of the largest corporations in this country is taking the same path.
AMAZON .. refuses to collect cali sales tax and closed down anything even remotely linking it, by the most tenuous legal threads, to protest an unjust law.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/2...associates/index.htm

lots of smart people running that company -- sure they'll still ship there, but will not have ANYTHING to do with that unjust law.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

once again, one boils a live frog slowly.

At what temperature do you suppose the frog will simply throw it's little hands in the air and say "fuck it"?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and before anyone says i am talking out of my armpit -- one of the largest corporations in this country is taking the same path.
AMAZON .. refuses to collect cali sales tax and closed down anything even remotely linking it, by the most tenuous legal threads, to protest an unjust law.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/2...associates/index.htm

lots of smart people running that company -- sure they'll still ship there, but will not have ANYTHING to do with that unjust law.

You do know that Amazon still ship to CA, right? What a ridiculous analogy......

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:


Yet, a guy that STANDS UP FOR YOUR FIGHT, in about the only legal way possible, by NOT conforming with those same laws you find distasteful, is a jerk?

Further crappy analogy...... The CFLC program that Dan objects to DOESN'T APPLY TO HIM! He is just being an a-hole.

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and before anyone says i am talking out of my armpit -- one of the largest corporations in this country is taking the same path.
AMAZON .. refuses to collect cali sales tax and closed down anything even remotely linking it, by the most tenuous legal threads, to protest an unjust law.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/2...associates/index.htm

lots of smart people running that company -- sure they'll still ship there, but will not have ANYTHING to do with that unjust law.

You do know that Amazon still ship to CA, right? What a ridiculous analogy......

Yes, I do know what.. that you don't consider it to be applicable.. well, this is your decision. and YOUR business.

and i stated i know the bolt vs firearm law doesn't apply... however, i understand.
that's HIS business, to decide not to partake at all.

further than amazon? only until cali demands they collect sales tax... then it will require careful planning my amazon.

if you can't see the parallels, perhaps its best that you aren't in politics.

Amazon is not limiting it's opposition efforts to refusing to collect sales tax. That you can't see that is further proof that you don't have an f-ing clue what you are talking about.

Amazon still does do business with CA residents, and by removing all operations from CA, they are setting up a challenge to the law. They aren't pulling out of CA in protest, they are setting up a huge sucker punch. Of course it surprises me none that you lack the facilities to see such things.

For further proof that CA is on the cutting edge of fighting against 2A restrictions everywhere, read this, sponsored by a CA based 2A civil rights organization. This is just one part of a litigation strategy that will ultimately help all US gun owners.