quote:

Originally posted by mho:
I don't know if you made that comment, because you thought $825 was steep, or whether it was just a reaction to what gnmkr wrote??

Heh Heh.....

No, I was just adding a little fuel to a smoldering fire. Sorry. I'm pretty sure Steve's comment I replied to was a bit tongue-in-cheek also.

But your post was excellent.....in every respect.

GV

And anyway, that $825 dealer price was quoted in July 2002!

That could well make a difference.

A custom, BR quality, PF repeater action can be had for between $1000-1200 these days. Jerry Stiller intends to sell his new M700 clone (the Predator) for $650 - but that is without trigger, bottom metal, mag box, spring and follower.

- mike

Our goal, as it has always been is not to be in the lower end of the market, except for price.

When I think of an action that is in the lower end of the market, or one that is machined poorly, but priced high, I think of one that requires the user to adjust and modify a variety of components, or make upgrades.
Our actions will not require you to purchase new bottom metal, a new safety, have the action blueprinted, or the raceways slicked up. This is what you're getting from the start.

I know the general shooting public is skeptical when you tell them they can have something of quality without the cost, but to me I think it's harder to justify why an action that is supposedly "custom" can cost ten times what the factory can make them for, when the actual differences between the two don't justify the price.
This is taking into account that the factories are still using methods that should have been dropped decades ago.

I think the bigger question is.......why is it that we have made such huge upgrades to tooling and machinery over the last 20 years, with no improvements in the product line????

CNC's have been on the machining scene for over 30 years, but huge improvements in the last 15 should have given the general public better products. They have of course, but not in the firearms industry. Just take a look at what's happened to automobiles in that same timeframe.

Just food for thought fellas

Matt, gotta agree wholeheartedly with your post. Just look at M70's... a lot look like they were made by a monkey with a belt sander. They seem to have improved a bit but not much.

Looking forward to your product... WSM action's first?

Fiberglass handles to be available from McMillan?

Mr. Williams I am not trying to downgrade your product.I am just seking an answer. I have asked you a couple times why you are now broaching your raceways after saying the would be done with wire EDM. Is this a cost issue? I know that if you want it real slick and with tight dimensions the EDM is much superior. Butch

quote:

Originally posted by gnmkr:
We've seen 'em come and we've seen 'em go, and we've heard volumes about the ones we've never seen.

One action does not an action maker make. Four years advanced notice and no one has even seen the first one????

"Our goal, as it has always been is not to be in the lower end of the market, except for price."
This statement in not decipherable to me. I don't understand how one could have a cheap action that wasn't a cheap action??????? Oxymoron?

Regardless of whether or not this comes to fruition, rest assurd, it will be no Hartmann & Weiss.

I'm not the one who is dreaming.
SDH

It's called quality without the overinflated price......how's that for clearing up the oxymoron???

You're right though....it won't be a hartmann and weiss....wouldn't dream of charging my customers that much for an action.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Mr. Williams I am not trying to downgrade your product.I am just seking an answer. I have asked you a couple times why you are now broaching your raceways after saying the would be done with wire EDM. Is this a cost issue? I know that if you want it real slick and with tight dimensions the EDM is much superior. Butch

Two reasons....
One, if we wire EDM the raceways, we'll end up cutting a portion of threads, just like the Winchester does when they conventional broach their recievers, as well as Remington.

Two, we are using a shaper that will cut the raceways with a recipicating motion, not a straight through broach, taking between .0005-.0007" per pass. This process will produce a finish that practically burnishes the raceways, leaving them extremely smooth, with virtualy little to no polishing needed. A wire EDM, while extremely accurate, leaves a much rougher finish that would have to be smoothed out in order to aquire the nice slick finish that we are after. The nature of wire EDM is such that in order to get the finish where it needs to be, it would have to be cutting a much thinner piece of material to acheive results in a timely enough fashion. As the material thickness increases, so does lack of tolearance and finish.
If you're cutting material with an EDM that's only .250" thick, you can travel at faster rates, acheiving a high degree of accuracy, and leaving a fantastic finish. When the wire has to travel a path at 7-9", depending on action length, the finish, tolearance, and speed suffer immensly.


To hold tolearances of +/-.0005-.001" with the shaper is well within reason and well within the needed tolearance for the process.

I have been well pleased with the Williams products that I have used so far.

Between the Stiller Predator and the Williams actions I may have bought my last M 700 and M 70 donor actions. That is a very pleasant thought.

Thanks for going for it Matt.

lawndart

Steve,
Chill out dude. These new actions are targeted at us working stiffs versus the bourgeoisie. There will always be a market for what you do. I am a different market; the buy a Williams action, have Jim Kobe screw on a Krieger and polish and tweak and put on iron sights, have it matte black chromed, have Jim Dubell put an ivory insert into the front sight, slap it all in a Legend stock with Titanium Devcon bedding, have Rick Bins paint it with Polane (olive drab), work up a load and go hunting type of market. Makes me all misty ust thinking about it.

As someone in the maufacturing business I can understand that there are a number of variables that come into play that could delay a company when it decides to bring a new product to market.

I don't understand the critical attitude of some of the posters here about this action.

I know that Matt posted quite sometime ago about his intend to come out with his new action, but the fact is, it's not like he was taking orders for them & then decided to sit on them.

Now if this truely is going to be a reality I for one would like to know what the price will be & when will Matt start accepting orders.

I'd like to get on the list.

Good Luck Matt

First of all, I haven't started any threads on this subject in a long time....This thread was brought up out of someone's curiosity, and I felt obliged to answer their question. One answer turned into many more.
If you've seen our website, there's no mention of the action project for this exact reason. I've let it sit dormant because of setbacks in our production process.

If I had no other concerns or parts to make, this action would have been into full production 4 years ago. However, we manufacture all of the extractors for USRAC, all bottom metal for the SuperGrade line, and Safari Express rifles. On top of that, we sell to Brownells, and Midway, to say nothing of all the individual sales to dealer and retail customers. In extractors alone, we inventory over 30 different variations. In trigger guards...12 different variations. In One-Piece Bottom Metal......24 different models. 4 different models in floorplate & hinge assemblies. That's 70 different products, all needed and wanted by customers in volumes ranging from 1-3000 in a single week.
Now, I'm not saying I'm just a little busy, but with that much inventory to keep up-to-date as well as procuring forging vendors, laser cutters, sheet metal form specialist, wire edm vendors, aquiring a CNC lathe, tooling up a shaper, building over 50 individual fixtures and components for fixtures that run into over 2000 pieces, and engineering this all out into a 3D solid-modeling program before the chips are cut, which is what I was doing between these posts.....I'm friggin busy.

In February we'll let the actions speak for themselves. With that said....I'm signing off and the next time I post will be with the actions ready for inspection along with pics.

That way I don't bore the hell out of ya in anticipation.


Merry Christmas to all.......

Wow, gnmkr, lay off the estrogen or your gonna need some Midol.

He can't help himself...

Benzene spill in the Yellowstone river?

LawnDart

Did you ever meet Claude Dallas? Seems like that county you live in rings a bell with him.

Gnmkr please post more photos of your work..

i thought these were the holy grail of actions for me especialy since he does a true rigby magnum length stainless action

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1542912

what say you triggerguard1

are you doing a true riby magnum length in stainless?

wishing you success...

Matt, I'll post this and let you alone. I have checked Jerry Stiller's raceways. He has a nice EDM machine and the finish is superb. He had to take a new lathe and build it into a deep hole drill. It then takes quite a bit of time to wire the raceways, but I think the finish and tolerance held are worth his effort.I guess that he needs to use your bottom metal.
Butch

WOW! What a grumpy bunch!

Unless the new Williams action has a gas handling flange like the Kimber 89, I for
one, am not interested. I don't need or want another model 70 action.

Pete Grisel stopped making his nice little small ring, short action before I saved up enough money to buy one. Yeah, that's right,
I'm one of those upwardly mobile working stiffs.

I don't have any closet queens. Wouldn't want one anyway. What I'd like is a nice Pete
Grisel style short actioned mauser, without the
built in scope mounts! I'd like to choose my
own, thank you. Even if I have to ask Mark
Stratton to make them for me!

So, unless someone wants to talk mauser, IN STEEL, forget it! One exception though, a
model 70 with the mauser style gas sheild!

I've been waiting on the Williams action
for a year. February is not that far away.
And if I don't like what I see, then I'm going to have Ed LaPour modify and shorten my
Kimber 89!

And before you guys knock the Kimber 89, I
must have gotten one of the few that has tight
tolerances. But then again, what would I know.
I'm not a gunsmith. I'm not a machinist.

Actually, I am probably pretty ignorant and unrefined by the standards set forth on this forum. But it is my money, and I like mausers.

I just happen to want one that isn't available!
Short action, (for the 7mm-08) small ring,
(because they look nicer to me)Oberndorf bottom
metal, and 3 position safety with a gas
sheild intact. (Kimber 89 is the only one I've
ever seen!)

Production methods? Machined? Cast? Forged?

Like most non professionals....I don't give a
tinkers damn, as long as it is safe and WELL FINISHED. That's the real curse of the low end
factory actions....They are not well finished!

And while I'm on this rant. How about the old Sako idea of making the action fit the cartridge. I despise an H&H action fitted to
the 30-06, then shortened half an inch for the
308. How about a REAL short action, for the
REAL 308 sized rounds? And a REAL standard length action for the 30-06 sized rounds?

Jeez, How many rifles when compared to all the others is bought in the longer rounds? Enough to crap on the rest of us with actions longer than they need be?

This is where Ed Weatherby stepped on his corporate dick. Made the nice, smaller 6 lug
action, then proceeded to make it a foot and half long? If he had made this little baby in a
true short action.....I'd have bought two guns just to get the actions. Don't need CRF on
short rounds! No wonder he's stepping up his
Vangard line! Can't figure what happened Ed?

Tolerances? What can I say? I'm just an ignorant ole SOB who likes mausers!

quote:

LawnDart

Did you ever meet Claude Dallas? Seems like that county you live in rings a bell with him.

I moved here after all the hoo-haw had died down some, so I never met him. I had followed the story back from the beginning and was a little worried about having to bite my tongue if my conclusions ran counter to the prevailing view. No need to worry, it turns out.

Claude viewed himself as a throwback to the 1800's; buckaroo, cowboy, mountain man, etc. He was from Ohio originally (IIRC). He worked hard to be good with horses, branding, fencing, hunting and fishing. Claude affected a courtly manner; the local girls lapped that up. Claude took it for granted that as much game as he wanted to take was his right to do so. He was not quiet about his views. Claude is very smart. Claude had a gut feeling that he would have to "defend himself" with deadly force against an authority figue some day. He had that type of dream about the kind of person he thought he was. A warped "romantic" belief.

There are some Elk in the Owyhees, but it is predominantly deer, antelope and mountain lion country. In the 1950's and 1960's the Owyhee country was crawling with big deer. Hunters from California could drive up and get two buck tags. Well, that took its toll. About the same time the greenies were crawling up the Feds' butts about the poor misunderstood coyote, so funding for hunting and trapping them was drastically cut back. So, about the time Claude was doing his thing, deer numbers were on their way down (they have not recovered to this point).

The nicest thing anyone ever said about Bill Pogue was that he was a total prick. He was not very tall, but felt twelve feet so with his badge on. I thank God that I did not have someone like that for a father. I have met some "by the book", just "black and white" kind of game wardens in my life. Bullies with a badge. Evidently Bill took it two steps further. He had a reputation for looking for any possible technicality to write someone up, even if the technicality did not exist in fact. Fair is fair, and law is law. Bill was neither according to some well adjusted and very honest people who knew him back then (and no, these folks never got a ticket from Bill). Bill had worked as a warden in the Cascade, Idaho area. He was universally reviled up there. He was run out of there, not for doing his job too well, but for using his badge to scratch his itch. His itch was to hurt people. The department transfered him to the Owyhees because there would be less frequent interactions with the public. He ran his mouth a lot, but in a different way than Claude. Prior to the shootout, folks in the back country commented that some day Bill was going to figure out a way to kill Claude.

Conlee Elms was big, good natured guy. He loved being a game warden and working out in the Owyhees. He liked people, and loved his wife and kids. Prior to the shootout he had commented that Bill Pogue was going to get nim killed. This is pure speculation on my part, but perhaps the department figured that Conlee could help balance out Bill.

The sheriff at the time, Tim Nettleton, is convinced that when Bill Pogue and Conlee Elms came off the ridge line down toward Claude Dallas' camp site their fate was sealed. Claude was a very good shot, and practiced a lot. Bill had carried "the big hammer" for a long time, but neglected to practice or work through scenarios in his head.

When the smoke settled, the guy who had practiced was still standing.

Passions run very high on this case, and likely will for another few decades.

Claude's supporters think he should have gotten off on self defense. A lot of folks in law enforcement say hanging was too good for him. The proscecution's case was not compelling for Murder 1 in the jury's eyes. There was a motion to bring in a jury from out of the county; I'm not sure if that was done. In any case a jury of twelve people rendered a verdict, and that is the way we do things in the US.

If anyone has a lot of heartburn either way on this issue, I can point you toward all the transcripts and other records. I can also set up a guide to take you to the manslaughter scene.

Take home lessons:

1. When your winter camp site is very close to where the borders of Idaho, Oregon and Nevada meet, and you like vennison; invest in some tags from all three states. It might save you a bazillion years in prison.

2. If you wear a badge, practice, practice and practice some more. Also, pay attention to your people skills; it might save your ass. It might also save your family a huge amount of grief. Bill Pogue's widow is a nice lady. She has been through hell over this.

Foot notes:

1. When Claude Dallas' guns were confiscated, they were given out to various people as souveniers without papers. A close friend spent several months (as part of her job) retrieving those guns back to the evidence locker so they could be processed legally. IIRC, some were sold legally to address restitution issues, and others were returned to family members.

2. The initial trial was held in the little town of Murphy, Idaho. The windows were open in the court room. There was a good sized pack of coyotes near bye that were howling up a storm. Scared the shit out of the city poofter reporters.

LD

PS A friend of mine recently retired after several years as the game warden in the Owyhees. Great guy. His first life was as an LAPD detective. Good shot, reads people well, caught lots of poachers and other 'ner do wells. He treated the public with courtesy. As a result, when people saw poaching going on they didn't hesitate to drop a dime.

Matt, put me on your list for the big action. Will that action accommodate a 505 Gibbs?

Good luck with Tom Burgess. I do not think he is doing much work on actions now. He has one of mine and it is not back yet.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Don Slater

Your post reads just as grumpy as many of the other ones on this thread.

By the way, you can have what you want, and its avaialable. Have Thomas Burgess work over a G.33/40 chammbered in the caliber of your choice wiht the barrel of your choice, with one of his 2 position safeties, a 1909 triggerguard with a wisner straddle flooplate, and some of his modified bases, and quit complaining.

You, sir, must have been too busy constructing your reply to have read my post. First of all I said I wanted a true commercial short action,
and with a 3 position safety!

It's going to be a very hard sell to get any of the knowledgeable people on this site to see your G-33/40 action as anything but one ugly ass military action that is intermediate in length! If I wanted military and intermedite,
I'd buy a Mexiacan 1910.

My intent was not to be grumpy but point out
some of the reasons people like me won't buy the available products. Ed Weatherby's 6 lug
action is a perfect example. It is a nice, light action with a short 60 degree bolt throw.

Now who the hell, given a real choice in the matter, wants one of these for the 7mm-08 in
a 30-06 length? Same reason I won't waste any of my money on a current model 70!

Had Mr. Weatherby thought this through, and actually offered a real short action, I would
have bought two. And Chic Worthing would be
making me a classic stock for one in 7mm-08, right after I used the original stock for firewood.

As they are made now, I don't want one, even if it was FREE!

All I was trying to say is that if you want to make big actions, so be it. There are many
who would want one. But, damn it, don't insult
those of us who like short cartridges by
offering an incompetant modification to the big
action like a shortening block at the rear of the full-sized magazine.

So, there is no sense in ANYONE disparaging
Matt Williams' action. He will make what he will make, and if it is no different than the
current crop of crap....I won't buy it either!

So, sir, I wasn't complaining. I was serving notice that I will not waste any more of my hard earned cash on products that are not
what I want. In today's ecomonomy makers will
have to produce what the customer wants or face the prospect of a lack in sales!

The days of the arrogant artisan are just about over. Don't believe me? Just look around and see how many are no longer in the gun business!

I can only assume from your answer to my
desires for a short actioned, small ring COMMERCIAL mauser that you are an automobile
manufacturing executive. Just like them, you
don't seem to have a clue as how to satisfy the
desires of a customer!

You don't think it is an accident that the top 19 selling vehicles in this country are made
by the Japanese, do you?

How low will the manufacturers stoop? Isn't
Remington going to sell those ill made, ill
fit and finished Yugoslav actions next year?

And if Ed Weatherby doesn't get his head out of his rectum, the only line left for Weatherby will be the Japanese made Vangard line!

Enough said!

Right on, Don!

Go get 'em!

Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Don

Okay then, I think Winchester has now changed the design of their gas shield so that it will block most gases. And if you take a look at Winchester's Classic compact with the short action you can get that in 7-08. Nice little gun. You ought to check one out. And Matt Williams just came on here and said he was going to be having new style triggerguards available. Maybe he will make one for the short action winchester.

22WRF,

I really don't mean to be disagreeable, or the bad guy here, but the current so-called short action Winchester model 70 is not a REAL short action.

It is merely 1/2" shorter than their 30-06 sized action, which is made on an H&H sized action. It's longer than necessary for
everything made on it but the H&H sized rounds.

This so-called short action is really an INTERMEDIATE action. Now I will grant you, it would be a fine action upon which to make a 7X57 sized rifle.

I don't know why they insist on doing this?
The H&H cartridges have not been popular for
many years. Any rifle made on them would indeed be a "classic", and made due to nostalgia, so why not use the mauser action like the originals did?

Why screw up everything else, "just in case"?
Not only that, it would cost no more to make
a good looking bolt handle than it does to make that "bent nail" looking piece of crap Winchester uses now.

I'll return to my original intent. Here's my
advice to the gun manufacturers. Make a decent
product within your format, and lose the attitude of "This is what we make, take it
or leave it". Products can, and should be
improved within limited budgets. Why not
correct mistakes that cost little to do so?

The present products and the present arrogant
attitudes are going to result in many corporate
bankruptcies. And that you can take to the bank!
And Winchester is slow to get it. Look how long
it took to make the CRF again. And it seems the
dummies are trying to return to the push feed
that few of us wanted. Look at their new catalog.

This is the perfect case of cheapening the product to maintain or increase profits. It
would make more sense to "move up a notch".
Decent, one piece bottom metal. Correct sized actions, and lose that crappy bent nail, knurled bolt handle!

Then, and only then, increase the prices accordingly. Not exorbantly, but accordingly!

And I don't want to hear about production costs.
They wasted enough money on the WSSM action and
the worthless little rounds made for it that they could have made everything right with their existing product! We could be experiencing
the best model 70 ever made. But no, we have more of the Winchester smugness, and an action that does not live up to its' potential.

Some executives need to be looking for gainful
employment in a field they understand. Apparently making firearms is not their forte.

Lastly, I don't need to have Matt Williams
make me an Oberndorf style triggeruard for the
model 70. I don't intend to own one until they
offer me a true short action for the 7mm-08.
And as of now I can buy a Blackburn or a Sunny Hill triggerguard. Two differnt styles with two
distinct looks. I don't need a third!

There is a lot of potential out there. And
we Americans have the most talented custom workers in the world. These talented people can
modify and gussy up just about anything.

I just happen to believe that the only thing
they should not have to do....is shorten an
action to the proper length!

American companies are quickly becoming the
"Jacks of all trades, and the masters of none".
Sadly, this is a sure fire path to failure.

Update update...

Do we get a look at the new action before shot show??

So the 2006 shot show has come and gone - was the Williams action on display? Any one get a look at it or is it still "missing in action"?

Joe

Joe,
The Williams booth was empty..............
So, the action remains a mystery. Sad, as it seems a perfect time to release it with Winchester's demise.

Huntr

( use an English accent here)


I'll take two small flat ones and a packet of gravel.

Timan

Timan

We all know from our courses in management theory about economies of scale in the manufacturing sector (cost-unit volume studies and the like)

My question for you is, what is stopping you from making a few more of your $3000 actions so that you can sell them for $1000 and still make the same profit you need to support your family.

Matt, I hope that all is still going well and that you are still on track for producing the action some day soon. I'll likely be one of your first customers. Hope to hear from you soon..............DJ

About $300k for a Mazak Integrex multi opperation machine. This type of machine will turn and mill. It will run face mills 6 inches in diameter, it will basically run any cutting tool. This machine is 5 axis, one of these could make 90% of a mauser or a model 70 in one opperation. The lug ways would be cut on a shaper as usual. The key here is how fast can one get good accurate parts to the shaper, once on the shaper the shaper will cut the shallow side in 15 minutes and the deep extractor side in 20 minutes, If it's a mauser the guide rib slot is cut in 10 minutes I currently use a shaper setup to cut the 3rd lug pocket. granite mills theirs, faster for sure. In making actions I've built 3 different cam cutters that range from complicated to stupid simple they all make good cams in about the same amount of time. To make a 1000.00 dollar Mauser it needs to be completely machined and polished in 10 hours.Any one who can do this and do it right will own the
custom mauser action market. That's 100 dollars an hour. The clock is running. That is a big nut to crack.
Timan

Timan

and how close in quality would this mauser be to say the Hartman and Weiss Masuer or the Golmatic Masuer or the Granite Moutain Mauser.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Slater:



22WRF,

I really don't mean to be disagreeable, or the bad guy here, but the current so-called short action Winchester model 70 is not a REAL short action.

It is merely 1/2" shorter than their 30-06 sized action, which is made on an H&H sized action. It's longer than necessary for
everything made on it but the H&H sized rounds....

...I don't know why they insist on doing this?
The H&H cartridges have not been popular for
many years. Any rifle made on them would indeed be a "classic", and made due to nostalgia, so why not use the mauser action like the originals did?...



.... We could be experiencing
the best model 70 ever made. But no, we have more of the Winchester smugness, and an action that does not live up top its potential.....

There is a lot of potential out there. And
we Americans have the most talented custom workers in the world......

......

Don,

I dont see how the M70:06'action is originally H*H length. It is modified/chewed out both front and rear to accept the H*H rounds, just like Std.m98 actions are. I believe magnumMausersRecievers were created to accomodate the longer round without chopping into feedramps or other areas of the reciever.HartmannWeissmagnumMausers are 9.5mm longer in the rails than a std 98.likewise....
WFH, who make copies of the pre64,do not modify their N3:06'(3.4") action but rather produce the longer N3 magnum(3.65")or N4(3.85"). That tells me that the original pre 64 or current M70LA was never an original magnum length action.

You go on to say that Winchester carries its smugness, and an action that does not live up to its potential, well the M70 was always and remains a compromise of aM98 no matter what you do to it,or how much American pride you issue with its marketing.
You also said that we Americans have the most talented custom makers in the world....Sounds abit like that Winchester smugness you were complaining about....I would say that they( american custom builders) form a good part of the worlds best talent, and just by sheer population numbers/pool of talent to choose from, have more, but not necessarily superior,notable guys in the game.

When I reach for a 9.3x74R double oneday, it wont be on an American model 21 Winchester converted by some american gunsmith,nor will it necessarily be Holand&Holland. it will more likely be a Famars,Rizzini. (H&W if I could afford it). But if one of these Italian firms happen to have a talented american working in his shop to produce that rifle that would be good. And I dont mind if they use Japanese CNC machines to do it.

When Jerry fisher,Echols,Blackburn reach for the best custom manufactured mangum mauser reciever on the planet,they dont make it a matter of national pride or ego, they instead acknowledge the truth and aquire a HartmannWeiss. That they have told me personally.
These humble talented custom makers, to get the best result, aquire all the best the world has to offer to compliment their final work, they know it is foolish not to, or to insist that the USA are the only ones with the best to offer.
I have seen talent that never attempt to join the ACGG and probably never will, and they surpass some of that ACGG work by far.Some guys dont feel they need to belong to something or look for approval from a group, they are just happy doing their own thing and get sufficient work through word of mouth.They have 3-4yr customer wating periods as things stand already. That does not make them any lesser a craftman cause they dont have the profile of being "American" or "ACGG members" that some do.
Hagn designed what some would consider about the best modern day Falling Block, yet he is German, lives/works in Canada, shows in the USA.Sold the rights of the reciever to H&W Germany.
Does it really matter where he was born,where he was when designed it,where or who makes the action, what his new citizenship is? The fact is we have a wonderful product no matter its origin.
Currently, one of the best M70 type actions being produced is the Harre49 in New Zealand.
When at SCIReno 2004 I believe he recieved orders(from gunmakers)totaling some 40 or more recievers. They are in the same price range as GMA & WFH.

Well that is a dissapointment. I'd like to see these on the market, but won't hold my breath. Maybe we'll here from Matt on why they didn't make it.

Joe

Joe, I wouldn"t hold my breath on him responding either! ackleyfan

Hey guys,

I don't have a dog in this fight except that I have used Matt's products and hope that he stays in business so I can use some more of them. His main customer (by far) just shut down the assembly line. Right now Matt is sweating bullets about how he can keep his doors open, who he has to let go and who he can afford to keep on the payroll.

If someone has a bunch (ie $25,000,000.00) to underwrite the start-up of a new Winchester Model 70/Model 94 line; you can have as many fancy new actions as you want. It is a cold, cruel world out there. It is all about money. If you have a fist full of it you can get what you want (usually). If not you can cry, whine, snivel and bitch until hell won't have it, and you still won't get what you want.

Welcome to the boards, by the way.

lawndart

Jack,

My intent was not to disparage any other country
in the world, or their craftsmen.

I was trying to point out, we have some of the
best talent in the world but make shoddy, poorly
designed products.

To me the model 70 is too long. The rear bridge
should be shortened like is done for the H&H
cartridges, then shortened down for the short
actioned cartridges. This does indeed work well if done right......just look at a Kimber 84!

Anyone care to explain that stupid looking, crappy
bolt handle on the model 70? It looks like a bent pole barn spike! A good looking
bolt handle would cost no more to make, would it? And how much extra to make a good bolt
stop with checkering like those modified from the original by the custom gunmakers?

I still believe the rear of the model 70 could have been modified to have a 3 position safety with a proper gas sheild. "Almost" only counts in horeseshoes and hand grenades! That
gas "fix", or little thingy on the left side
of the extractor IS NOT a new feature, and doesn't do the job!

Winchester should have made these product "improvements" instead of spending the
large cash flow for the WSSM line!

I, for one, will not miss Winchester. There are
too many clones and mausers available!

What's the latest on this?
Butch

It's been renamed "The Rip Van Winkle".

I received the following from Matt today:

"Just finished up the 2nd of 3 operations on the machine tonight and expect to have parts moving out the door on Wednesday. Last week looked like for sure it was happening, until I was forced to redesign my fixturing for the second operation that required a full day of work and 2 days waiting on the tooling necessary to complete it. It did work however and it looks as though I have a winner going on and will have production numbers up very soon.

Thank you for being so patient and I’m working on getting these things going just as quickly as I can."