quote:

Originally posted by Gun toter:


your statement about his poorly layed out wood prooves you are an ass of the tenth degree. hen you mention the one that was layed out to your aprroval for the school in colorado.

I think a some people misunderstood SDH meant about Lexus having a bunch of bad wood to sell. I don't want to speak for Steven, but I would bet that he did not mean to imply that all of Lexus's wood was poorly laid out.

All producer-suppliers have a bunch of "lesser wood" to unload.

You will also notice that stockmakers are much more discerning about wood than the wood sellers who cut and sell the stuff. The wood sellers always seem to hold to the belief that "it's all good."

Have you ever noticed that car collectors and mechanics are much more discerning about cars than car salesmen are?

Gun Toter---very well put indeed. I did not mention some of the things you did but now that the cat is out of the bag --- Well SDH we are waiting??

I wonder if SDH and Jerry Fisher are buddies now??

Boss Hoss

You still haven't posted your name.

Why do you hide behind your screen name and the names of the famous people that you are always dropping?

Remember, this is supposed to be fun.

Famous people??? Those are just my friends...

Don't post too much information ---- people that have a need to know more do. Hated to post as much information as I did but some folks are just deserving lol..

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
Famous people??? Those are just my friends...

But you wouldn't be dropping their names if they weren't famous, thereby enhancing your status, right?

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
Famous people??? Those are just my friends...

But you wouldn't be dropping their names if they weren't famous, thereby enhancing your status, right?

I know quite a few people in the industry -- some in Senior Leadership positions with various companies. One reason I don't post a lot of detail about certain things going on.

Shooting and building firearms has always been a passion of mine.

With this thread it was just too tempting so I put a couple of names of a few of my friends. Probably should not have but in this case the person involved was being discourteous to a friend of mine.

There is no agenda for me-----people who know me would get a chuckle out of the undersigned “enhancing your status” because in the final analysis it really makes no difference what keyboard warriors think of me. Hell most of my friends in the industry do not even post on boards like this because there are so many keyboard warriors trying to make a name for themselves so to speak and know just enough about something to be dangerous.

All in all it is fun for me and I try not to take it too seriously because it is after all it is about putting a small projectile into a target or animal and he who dies with the most toys wins!!

David

You Mr. Hoss remind of that old Texas saying, "All hat, No cattle".
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
You Mr. Hoss remind of that old Texas saying, "All hat, No cattle".
Steve

Thank You Sir and if I need any of my Horses Shod then you will be the one I contact because your abilities as a “Blacksmith” and “Farrier” are well known..

i for one am still waiting for SDH to reply about AFreeman giving him free gun wood and his attidude towards him here................


?

quote:

Originally posted by Gun toter:
i for one am still waiting for SDH to reply about AFreeman giving him free gun wood and his attidude towards him here................


?

He will not---you can guess why he will choose to leave that one alone. I am waiting for him to tell us the Current status of his relationship with Jerry Fisher.

Ah yes an expert because you know so and so, not because of what you have done or know. My favorite type of expert. Who should I become friends with if I want to be as knowledgeable as yourself? You hide behind your internet handle and toss out barbs while trying to impress us all by who you know or have hired. A typical Blow Hard.....

Never said I was an expert but at least I know about barrel manufacturers like Lilja LOL!

You are fun but boring have a good one!

ok i am not gonna stir this pot any more.

but i am sure by now SDH has read the querry about the wood blank(s) that Afreenman sent him out of courtesy some year or two ago.

judging from his lack of response i might just conclude that he is ashamed of him self.

SDH- why in the world you as a milk man would jump the fence and start kicking the dairy farmers cows is something i cannot grasp.

from what i understand luxus has a warehouses full of nice gunwood and provides a fair many blanks to makers all over. you might just consider that you do not know everything and maybe should..............o who the hell really cares.

nevermind. do what you do best. what ever that is.

just dont go kicking cows......thats stupid for a milkman.

signing off from alaska via uvalde tejas.
Mark Steiner

quote:

Originally posted by Gun toter:
ok i am not gonna stir this pot any more.

just dont go kicking cows......thats stupid for a milkman.

signing off from alaska via uvalde tejas.
Mark Steiner

OOOh Kaaay, hummnn.

Yea, for the sake of objective writing, I can see clearly that these gunwriters need to be firmly reminded of the source of the butter on their toast. Just in case a free wheeling opinion or such pops into their mind. There's a need to nip that in the bud for sure.

KB

After reading all the posts and having seen stocks cracked and broken at the wrist I think I'll go with SDH and SKB. They know of what they speak. Also I could not find where SDH disparaged Luxus or any other supplier of quality wood.

The basic qualities of wood and the importance of grain direction in structural strength has long been known to the aircraft industry. The grain structure in the illustrated stock would never be allowed as a structural part of an aircraft or propeller. It is weak. By the way I have built an airplane and worked with aircraft wood.

Now I've stepped in it.

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
Weak grain through the wrist

Would epoxying a wrist pin into the stock above prevent it from cracking/breaking around the wrist?

A pin isn't going to cover all that's wrong with that piece of wood. Furthermore, if it needs a pin it needs to be tossed before all the real work goes into it.

Terry

jerry you are right.
just like the rigby 350 in the black n white photo on pg 1.
that there stock surely has broken many times in its 100 year old life. always being glued and screwed back together.
that rigby stock was a left over POS chunk of unwanted wood after all the precious quartersawn wood was cut for the shining stars of the english gun companies................shotguns.

wasnt that it SDH?

what were rigby thinking, and holland and holland and purdey et all. they are as STUPID as the rest of us that think slabsawn wood is ok to use.
We are ignant morons who walk around with warped gunstocks that crack every damn time we pull the trigger or god forbid set the gun of ours against a tree.
SNAP.
HOLY SHIT there went another one.

One fine day i, and purdey and h and h and coountless other companies will brighten up and start using nothing but quartersawn.
thats the day we get smart.

and then what will we all do about the thousands of cheap used purdeys on the second hand gun market with the broken slabsawn stocks? you know the ones we see at auctions that just need the holier than though all brilliant stockmakers to resurect them up to a glorious quartersawn stock platue that the next 50 generations will enjoy and thank the SDH's for being so damn brilliant and forseeing.
piles of those dumb ass slab sawn broken gunstocks at every gun sale and auction. i have to dig through them to get to the good shit......the GOOD guns with quarter sawn stocks.

arrogance and a slight spit of ingnorance mixed with a generous hand full of narcisism is what occured here with SDH.
he threw down the guantlet at afreeman and was poignently put in place with visuals and history.

jerry if you do not understand that the english gun trade knows what the hell they are doing and that people like darcy echols who someone also noted here and who is arguably the best gun maker thats lived also knows what he is doing then you deserve to be in camp with SDH.
you should move on up to montana and rub each others ass's with gun stock oil and tell one another how bright and correct you are.

i am sure you are a nice guy, but saying what you did in the face of all that is prooven is beating your proverbial head against a wall thinking you are right............what in the world?

that stock is just like the laminate that kabluewy compared it to. LOOK AT THE PICTURES.
open your damn eyes.
the sky will not fall for kabluewy and his stick WILL NOT BREAK AND IT WILL NOT WARP.

unfuknbelievable the lack of common scense in the whole world.

I wonder if SDH will write some little quibble about this in a magazine to proove his dominance over us pions.

I should have listened to my Dad. He told me to, "Never get in an argument with a fool. He'll just drag you down to his level and destroy you with experience."

Jerry Liles

This just in..........................
UPS driver sneezed and heard a snap in his truck.
he immediatly stopped his little brown truck and found a splintered cardboard box with wood shavings in and about it that was address to one kabluewy of alaska.

later when asked by the media about the incident the ups driven thanked devine intervention for a gunstock that was cut wrong where upon it snapped due to the atmospheric change (that damn sneeze dont you know) that occured in his truck with his doors and windows up. it saved his life while driving in the fog as he had to stop to investigate..............10 feet from the flat edge of the earth.

he damn near fell off.

Jerry

isnt that the truth?

hows your forehead feel? did that wall crack yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Sevens:

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
Weak grain through the wrist

Would epoxying a wrist pin into the stock above prevent it from cracking/breaking around the wrist?

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
A pin isn't going to cover all that's wrong with that piece of wood. Furthermore, if it needs a pin it needs to be tossed before all the real work goes into it.

Terry

Once I bought a stock from Boyds, back when they would "upgrade" their stocks. Supposedly the stock I bought was a AAA fancy exibition grade. Anyway, it had cross grain and run-out in the wrist so bad that it was obvious even to me. The question came up about running a pin through the wrist for strength. My gunsmith at the time said sell it, so I did - on Ebay, and actually made a profit.

The stock in the above picture is nowhere even close to that Boyds stock. But what the heck - I was planning on selling it to Terry. Now it appears there's little chance of that.

So Terry, since you've joined the company of experts with an opinion, what is your analysis of "all that's wrong with that piece of wood"?

Heck, the way some of you guys talk about the stock, I'm thinking of taking it to a shop that has a sharp saw, and sawing a section out of it right down the middle, about 3/8" to 5/8" or so wide, vertical, lengthwise, then glueing a nice colorful walnut board of equal width between the two halves, then inletting appropriately, shaping and finishing out. That should take care of any cracking or warping problems.

So, my question to the experts, for the best strength, should the board to be glued in the middle be slab sawn, quarter sawn or rift sawn?

My guess would be quarter sawn, that way all of you may be happy, since the outside 2/3 of the stock would then be flat or slab sawn, and the middle portion quarter sawn.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
Is this dense and hard, perfect grain walnut able to stand up to a band saw blade?

As you can see, it wasn’t. Truth is, it did slow the blade down in a few places.

I am not sure what to say. That is the damnedest thing I have ever seen on this forum.

I am sure that is going to piss a lot of guys off, and I must admit I am shocked, but I can't stop laughing.

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
Dear Mr. Freeman,
I was skeptical when you offered to send me a “free” stock blank several years ago at the Guild Show. Last June 2009 when you again offered to send a blank saying, “I know exactly the kind of wood you like” I was still a bit queasy because I simply don’t accept bribes for publicity.

I’m sorry we have disagreed on this subject and even more sorry that you took my statements so personally. For that I apologize, I did not mean to hurt your feelings, but I am certainly passionate about the subject so important to my profession.

At his recommendation, I made several calls down to southern CO and heard a few things about your spokesperson David Myer alias Mr. BOSS HOSS. I do not as yet know your other spokesperson Mr. GUN TOTER and at this time only know he does not tell the truth because he does not own any gun that I made.

In any case Mr. Freeman, I wanted you to be aware that the blank you sent IS NOT QUARTER SAWN WOOD. The end grain is 45 degrees rather than true quarter sawn wood. Also I wanted you to see the drying checks in the end grain of the blank you sent. You told me it was cut in 2004 in Georgia, which I marked on the blank because you don’t mark them for date or origin. Could that have been Georgia, USA a very moist climate as shown by this particular blank?



I had it all packaged to send back to you but Mr’s HOSS and TOTER were so insistent about finding out about the blank, I decided to perform a “STUNT” as you did in an earlier post. I hope this answers all their questions?

Is this dense and hard, perfect grain walnut able to stand up to a band saw blade?

As you can see, it wasn’t. Truth is, it did slow the blade down in a few places.


I hope this is the kind of publicity you desired Mr. Freeman. I think you should give special thanks your spokespersons, MR. BOSS HOSS and Mr. GUN TOTER maybe send them some free blanks?

After all, this lengthy thread on this popular Forum should draw a great deal of attention to your company LUXUS WALNUT!

I would also like to thank one thoughtful poster for reminding me that “WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HAVING FUN WITH THIS” And Boy was that FUN!

Best Wishes,
Steven Dodd Hughes, Gunmaker

Instead of selling the blank and donating the money to charity you cut it up like a spoiled child. Way to take the high road. Simply disgusting.

The reason stockmakers are picky about the wood they work on is that they have to stake their reputation on the product they produce. If the stock breaks due to poor layout, would the wood seller pay the stockmaker to make another one & reblue the metalwork? I think not. Who's the client going to blame if his custom rifle breaks for little or no reason?

Who's fault is it for the Alaska air tragedy?
The company that built the airplane or the chinese company that made the crappy elevator jack screw that caused the crash that the airplane company intstalled?

Boy what a cage fight, somebody get a mop. I have no dog in this hunt but since my name was brought up, I'll play. I like both 1/4 sawn and slab sawn blanks equally. With proper layout I myself prefer the looks of slabbed blanks. I have some pics of rifles shown on another thread and 5 of them are slab sawn. One is a 510 and has been in use for many many years. I recently finished a 505, shot it hundreds of rounds as did the owner and it has already accounted for it's 1st Ele. So far no cracks, but it's still April. In 30 years of stock making I am aware of 2 stocks that broke. One was a 1/4 sawn blank and the other was Carbon Fiber, both broke in half at the grip under the weight of the client falling on them. What does this prove ? nothing really except if you fall on your stock it may break regardless of what it is made of or how it was cut. I would guess I use slab sawn blanks for at least half the stocks I make because I like the looks of the finished product. But I have to admit I get week in the knees when I see an exhibition grade Blank of Carbon fiber come through the door.

quote:

Originally posted by SDH:
Dear Mr. Freeman,
I was skeptical when you offered to send me a “free” stock blank several years ago at the Guild Show. Last June 2009 when you again offered to send a blank saying, “I know exactly the kind of wood you like” I was still a bit queasy because I simply don’t accept bribes for publicity.

I’m sorry we have disagreed on this subject and even more sorry that you took my statements so personally. For that I apologize, I did not mean to hurt your feelings, but I am certainly passionate about the subject so important to my profession.

At his recommendation, I made several calls down to southern CO and heard a few things about your spokesperson David Myer alias Mr. BOSS HOSS. I do not as yet know your other spokesperson Mr. GUN TOTER and at this time only know he does not tell the truth because he does not own any gun that I made.

In any case Mr. Freeman, I wanted you to be aware that the blank you sent IS NOT QUARTER SAWN WOOD. The end grain is 45 degrees rather than true quarter sawn wood. Also I wanted you to see the drying checks in the end grain of the blank you sent. You told me it was cut in 2004 in Georgia, which I marked on the blank because you don’t mark them for date or origin. Could that have been Georgia, USA a very moist climate as shown by this particular blank?



I had it all packaged to send back to you but Mr’s HOSS and TOTER were so insistent about finding out about the blank, I decided to perform a “STUNT” as you did in an earlier post. I hope this answers all their questions?

Is this dense and hard, perfect grain walnut able to stand up to a band saw blade?

As you can see, it wasn’t. Truth is, it did slow the blade down in a few places.


I hope this is the kind of publicity you desired Mr. Freeman. I think you should give special thanks your spokespersons, MR. BOSS HOSS and Mr. GUN TOTER maybe send them some free blanks?

After all, this lengthy thread on this popular Forum should draw a great deal of attention to your company LUXUS WALNUT!

I would also like to thank one thoughtful poster for reminding me that “WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HAVING FUN WITH THIS” And Boy was that FUN!

Best Wishes,
Steven Dodd Hughes, Gunmaker

Incredible---and what did we prove?? That by destroying this piece of wood in a not so thinly veiled attempt to cause harm to an innocent party you are quite clearly an idiot! It is evident that you have given this careful thought (most likely spent all day on it) however, it was a ill-advised attempt to lash out at and cause financial harm to an entity by using both words and pictures. This feeble attempt to cause harm just proves that you really are a Curmudgeon who needs to change his Depends more often. To use the bribe word -- you might consider consulting with Counsel because the statements you have made show that your intent is to cause financial harm to an entity by making false accusations—does the term Libel come to mind?

Do find this somewhat strange that at your age you would put the “incontinence” funds at possible risk because I can only imagine wearing “dirty pants” all day could cause ones outlook on life to become even more soured and you might cut up all of your blanks in a "chaffing" moment.


The only thing you have accomplished here today is to actually pull your pants down and show everyone what type of person you really are---use more powder it will help with the chaffing ! Well I was wrong you did accomplish something else--it is crystal clear why you were not admitted or ever will be admitted into the Guild .

Just remember ---- NEVER get emotional and then put it in writing on a public forum.

Steven, I really don't think that accomplished exactly what you intended.

After everybody's had a good laugh, it may be interesting for all showing up here to understand that SDH is right when he states that quarter sawn wood makes a better gunstock.

Here's a short page showing how the different cuts of wood move during drying. I would guess this also applies to any changes in moisture.
http://www.wolfgangbrinck.com/...woodterminology.html

Gives you a little understanding why a rifle built with a quarter sawn stock will change point of impact less when the moisture changes.

Here's another page explaining why rift cut lumber is the least desirable.
http://www.woodworkweb.com/Par...ere-to-Use-Them.html

If you're in the business making airplane propellers then you're going to be building them with quarter sawn. That is, if you want to do it right the first time.

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
it is crystal clear why you were not admitted or ever will be admitted into the Guild

Which Guild are you referring to?

Best post of this thread, which seams to have devolved into a couple of fetid rectums ganging up and accusing a fine gentleman of smelling like shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
I should have listened to my Dad. He told me to, "Never get in an argument with a fool. He'll just drag you down to his level and destroy you with experience."

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:
Instead of selling the blank and donating the money to charity you cut it up like a spoiled child. Way to take the high road. Simply disgusting.

Would the blank have been sell able with that check? It look pretty major.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
Boy what a cage fight, somebody get a mop. I have no dog in this hunt but since my name was brought up, I'll play. I like both 1/4 sawn and slab sawn blanks equally. With proper layout I myself prefer the looks of slabbed blanks. I have some pics of rifles shown on another thread and 5 of them are slab sawn. One is a 510 and has been in use for many many years. I recently finished a 505, shot it hundreds of rounds as did the owner and it has already accounted for it's 1st Ele. So far no cracks, but it's still April. In 30 years of stock making I am aware of 2 stocks that broke. One was a 1/4 sawn blank and the other was Carbon Fiber, both broke in half at the grip under the weight of the client falling on them. What does this prove ? nothing really except if you fall on your stock it may break regardless of what it is made of or how it was cut. I would guess I use slab sawn blanks for at least half the stocks I make because I like the looks of the finished product. But I have to admit I get week in the knees when I see an exhibition grade Blank of Carbon fiber come through the door.

Hi D'Arcy,

I'm with you on the falling/breaking part, but must include having a rifle dropped while being shipped via UPS, USPS, etc. I've had one busted that way, and I'm sure I'm not the only one this has happened to.

kurtvn

Kabluewy,
My apologies for your thread going the direction it did.
I still feel your stock is more than fit for your project.

I was going to PM this to you but after some contemplation decided I would do this for all to read. My offer will follow last in this post.

We give away a lot of wood to the industry. It is a good thing to do. It is support. Stock makers get a lot of the wood. Writers do not and never do. Ask Bob Mathews, he paid, albeit a discounted rate.
We never ask for anything in trade.

Stockmakers
Gunmakers
repeat customers
Schools
ACGG
NWTF
SCI
NRA
etc...
Just those have accounted for perhaps over 500 blanks in five years.

We have never asked for anything in trade.

It makes me smile to be generous. I enjoy it because I enjoy the industry.
A perfectly vivid example of our generosity and support happened on this thread...

http://forums.accuratereloadin...881068921#1881068921

As all can read at the bottom, I simply asked Brando to PM me. No publicity seeking.
In my private response to his PM I offered to give him a Free stick of wood for his project.
Why?
Because of his service to our country in the military.

The date was a full 12 days prior to the start of this thread.

Very obvious to anyone with intelligence it was not and is not about publicity.
I reiterate, we never ask for anything and NEVER have. We make it a point not to do so.

It is a sincere and deep shame that there are those among us who know not how to be civil when opinions differ.

So my offer to you Kabluewy:
Should your stock in the photos at the onset of this thread, a stock and a blank I never had anything to do with, warp, I will send you a free blank of your choosing. Within reason of course.
This would have, and should have, been a private offer to you, as is the case so many times when we have done this in the past.

I have at this point in my life only ever regretted giving one blank away.

I was away at a funeral for my two month old cousin this weekend. Much to my dismay, I find this thread having gone the way it did.

I will have nothing further to say, regardless of any further comments from anyone.

My best regards to those that deserve it.

Adam

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
it is crystal clear why you were not admitted or ever will be admitted into the Guild

Which Guild are you referring to?

Is there any other for him? Why the "Lollipop Guild" of course!

quote:

Originally posted by AFreeman:
Kabluewy,
My apologies for your thread going the direction it did.
I still feel your stock is more than fit for your project.

I was going to PM this to you but after some contemplation decided I would do this for all to read. My offer will follow last in this post.

We give away a lot of wood to the industry. It is a good thing to do. It is support. Stock makers get a lot of the wood. Writers do not and never do. Ask Bob Mathews, he paid, albeit a discounted rate.
We never ask for anything in trade.

Stockmakers
Gunmakers
repeat customers
Schools
ACGG
NWTF
SCI
NRA
etc...
Just those have accounted for perhaps over 500 blanks in five years.

We have never asked for anything in trade.

It makes me smile to be generous. I enjoy it because I enjoy the industry.
A perfectly vivid example of our generosity and support happened on this thread...

http://forums.accuratereloadin...881068921#1881068921

As all can read at the bottom, I simply asked Brando to PM me. No publicity seeking.
In my private response to his PM I offered to give him a Free stick of wood for his project.
Why?
Because of his service to our country in the military.

The date was a full 12 days prior to the start of this thread.

Very obvious to anyone with intelligence it was not and is not about publicity.
I reiterate, we never ask for anything and NEVER have. We make it a point not to do so.

It is a sincere and deep shame that there are those among us who know not how to be civil when opinions differ.

So my offer to you Kabluewy:
Should your stock in the photos at the onset of this thread, a stock and a blank I never had anything to do with, warp, I will send you a free blank of your choosing. Within reason of course.
This would have, and should have, been a private offer to you, as is the case so many times when we have done this in the past.

I have at this point in my life only ever regretted giving one blank away.

I was away at a funeral for my two month old cousin this weekend. Much to my dismay, I find this thread having gone the way it did.

I will have nothing further to say, regardless of any further comments from anyone.

My best regards to those that deserve it.

Adam

Adam you and Clay are a class act. I always enjoy doing business with Luxus. I am also sorry to hear of your loss and send my dearest condolence.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
and who are you? I know a few folks around TSJC myself. And If I was going to trot out guns to show off, well lets just say most of the ones I would show would leave you wondering why you own the ones you do. Real BEST quality stuff. Yeah your probably right about the wood I buy, cheap stuff. Once again, who are you so when I call an ask about you it is not some handle from a website I am asking about?

No I will not be trotting guns out to the show lol. These guns will be mine but the makers will be showing them. One will is actually SN 1 by the way (lucky to get that one and we will see how good you are – who made the action] [/URL][URL=
and the barrel has been made by Speedy with a Very tight spec 416 Rigby reamer built by Kiff on the only tubes that are used for my rifles a Krieger(all of my rifles shoot bug holes period). The Integral rib, sling swivel that was machined in while the barrel was being turned among other things, will have some other neat things performed to it but we decided to abandon the switch barrel concept (338 Lapua and 416 Rigby)because of the time involved. Chuck will be working on the action and making this jewel come to life putting it all together and carving a Sick piece of wood to go on it. The engraving will be done by Lee who is a FEGA Master Engraver who has already handled the action and knows just what to do.

Well, who made the action?

Fred Wells SN 1

WOW!
Why is it that when anybody states a dissenting opinion they are personally attacked?
Kabluewy's stock will most likely give may years of service and/or never have a problem. But if it does, SDH is exactly right. He has shown the weakness in that type of stock blank cut. I think SDH was pointing out what is ideal and he is correct. Gunmaker points this out and backs it up with sources that anyone can see for themselves. Take a look at the blank that SDH cut up. Anyone that looks at what he builds and writes about knows that he uses steel buttplates. The blank that Mr. Freeman sent to him is not 1/4 sawn, checked, and not laid out correctly for a steel butt plate. It is weak at the toe and most certainly would break at some point in time. As was pointed out, he should have sold it and given the money to his favorite charity. However, at some point I can certainly see where a guy gets tired of being beat up and pissed on for stating the obvious.
'...D'Arcy Echols is arguably the best gunmaker that ever lived'. That's an easy argument to win. Have you ever heard of Monte Mandarino, Max Ern, Hartmann & Weiss, or Philipp Ollendorff? That's just the short list of living gunmakers.
Have I insulted Mr. Echols? I don't see how. He is an excellent craftsman. But, I have no doubt that his supporters will find some reason to personally attack me.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommyhawk:
WOW!
Why is it that when anybody states a dissenting opinion they are personally attacked?

'...D'Arcy Echols is arguably the best gunmaker that ever lived'. That's an easy argument to win. Have you ever heard of Monte Mandarino, Max Ern, Hartmann & Weiss, or Philipp Ollendorff? That's just the short list of living gunmakers.
Have I insulted Mr. Echols? I don't see how. He is an excellent craftsman. But, I have no doubt that his supporters will find some reason to personally attack me.

WOW, now there is an unwinnable argument that could go on forever. Sort of like who was the fastest horse or best boxer .
You forgot Peter Nelson and Joseph Manton and Louis Boutet and ... the list could go on forever.

Where is Rodney King when you need him ?