I was having coffee this morning and watching he birds at the feeder when i saw two dogs. So i went and put on my heavy clothes intending to go plink them in the a$$ with an airgun. So then my husband asked me where i was going and then he looked out the window and he said they're after the ducks. So instead of the air rifle i grabbed a .22. When i walked out i kept a big tree in the line of sight between me and the dogs so it wasn't obvious i was after them. When i was within range i shot the white hound type dog and it was hit but ran up over the hill. The gunfire didn't scare the German Shepherd, it continued chasing a duck. I shot it and it ran up under a pine tree wounded, shot it again and it was on its side turning circles, then another shot and it laid still. Hurried shots with the animal moving and not having a rest, they wasn't clean shots.

Went back to the house and my husband got dressed and we got a rifle for him and went to track the white dog. It had a sparce blood trail but we finally found it thanks to the snow. Finished it off with a shot behind the ear.

When i talked to my mom she said the goose is gone and 3 of the ducks and she was crying over the goose because it was her favorite. So then i called the sheriff and reported the incident and the deputy said if they're chasing livestock you're within your rights. Neither had tags, one had a metal choke collar is all.

I posted this here even though it isn't fur related, since it ties in with some of my other posts and what you all been tellin me.

Plinker

Law or no law support for the situation?
Do you have laws for the protection of livestock from domestic animals.

Are Ducks livestock according to any such law.

Will law enforcement support you or hang you out to dry

Next time if you should be so unfortunate to have a next timeyou should,

use a bigger gun,
(I say that because killing the dog might cause some local stir, wounding it might well be a whole nother matter)

S S S

Just an opinion of course and we know about them but,

You're very right TC, and my husband also didn't think it a good idea to call the law. The only reason i did it was in case someone saw the shooting, but then failed to notice that they were killing the ducks. People can have selective perception that way. I wanted it on record that way if someone calls, the law already knows what happened. If they wanted to come out and look they could have read the story in the snow from the dog and duck tracks.

Plinker

Indeed, SSS.... But way to go, I have poultry and have the same problem periodically. If these dogs were beloved pets they should have been kept home.

Once I found some large k-9 tracks on one of my trails and found them several times. I wasn't sure if it was a wild sort or someone's roaming dog. I set a snare on the trail and snared a dog. It was a large well fed lab, probably just out cruising because it was never told its boundaries.

I let it go even though it wasn't collared. He never came back, I don't think he liked being in the snare.

Another time while doing the barn chores a strange dog breeched my electric fencing to attack my poultry. I ended up getting my .22 and shooting the dog but it ran away. Some time later a distant "neighbor" came by and said I shot his dog and caused him a vet bill. He followed the blood trail to my fence.

I showed him my damaged poultry and his dog's blood trail leading from the middle of my pasture surrounded by tons of feathers to across my fence. He was still screaming angry saying they were "just chickens" and it was illegal for me to shoot his dog. He threatened to kill all of my animals when I was away to work, including my horse and kenneled dog.

Later, a sheriff deputy showed up threatening to ticket me. I showed him the blood and damaged chickens and told him of the threats I received. I let him know I would hold him personally responsible if I suffered any further livestock losses if nothing was done about this neighbor and his threats.

The bad thing is even though the law is definitly on my side in regarding protecting my livestock I was treated poorly because they are "just chickens".

When I was a kid,our neighbor (who was a cop)used to let his two german shepards run loose.My dad told him a few times they were causing trouble.We were losing a couple of chickens a week.One day my dad caught one of the dogs chasing the chickens and he shot one.The dog ran off.Later that eve, the neighbor and two State troopers showed up to investigate and arrest someone.Come to find out the two dogs were K 9 police dogs.Once the truth came out my dad was within his rights and couldnt be arrested or held responsible.One trooper even told the neighbor he owed my dad for the chickens that were missing.My dad said no thanks just leave.

The next day the neighbor didnt have the other dog.What an idiot!!and an ahole!!I bet his bosses gave him a reaming.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
The bad thing is even though the law is definitly on my side in regarding protecting my livestock I was treated poorly because they are "just chickens".

Yeah that's ridiculous. The chickens was on your property, behind a fence and the dog didn't have any business even being on your property. We dont' have leash laws here if outside the city limits, so it isn't against the law for the dogs to be on someone's property, but if they are caught destroying livestock it's okay to shoot them. Even the pound will immediately destroy them if they were caught destroying livestock.

When i called the incident in, i talked to a dispatcher and she wanted to know what it was relating to and said she'd have an officer call. He called back within a few minutes? He wanted to know what kind of gun was used, where'd we dispose of the bodies, all the details. Probably gave him something to talk about at the donut shop, lol. Never showed such interest before. Oh well, at least he was supportive.

About the lab you snared, that's great. I never figured out snares, but i usually can't figure out where the trails are anyway. Except when there's a snow like there is now. I'm with you on the lab, they're pretty docile, really. They're prob one of the less aggressive dogs there is. Although they are bird dogs, so a chicken would be pretty enticing so it's a good thing it learned to stay away.

Plinker

Plinker

quote:

Originally posted by mdmike:
When I was a kid,our neighbor (who was a cop)used to let his two german shepards run loose.My dad told him a few times they were causing trouble.We were losing a couple of chickens a week.One day my dad caught one of the dogs chasing the chickens and he shot one.The dog ran off.Later that eve, the neighbor and two State troopers showed up to investigate and arrest someone.Come to find out the two dogs were K 9 police dogs.Once the truth came out my dad was within his rights and couldnt be arrested or held responsible.One trooper even told the neighbor he owed my dad for the chickens that were missing.My dad said no thanks just leave.

The next day the neighbor didnt have the other dog.What an idiot!!and an ahole!!I bet his bosses gave him a reaming.

Well, that's too bad that a good police dog was lost, but they don't know anymore than any other dog if they're allowed to run loose and it sounds like the neighbor was warned. He should have been more careful with a valuable police animal.

Plinker

A number of times over the past few years, we've had similar situations. And the only way to stop it is to kill the dog(s) doing the damage.

We've lost kid goats, lambs and lots of poultry to dogs. But the worst was one Saturday morning when we returned home to find every feathered creature in the chicken yard -- including a penned batch of 30+ broilers -- dead amid piles of feathers. A coyote or 'coon will kill one and leave; a domestic or feral dog will just keep killing.

So if there's a dog or cat on our property (we are fairly isolated) and gives any indication it's up to no good, I don't hesitate to pull the trigger.

I'm curious after reading these.

Is it better to use a .22 and wound them, leave a blood trail so they can be back tracked like the one case.

OR use something bigger like a HMR, or .223 that'll kill 'em where they stand??

In the case of snow IF they're dead and the tracks prove it. Why not document it with lot's of pictures? Snow and tracks will melt away, or be buried under the next snow.

I live in town, there's lots of feral cats from neighbors moving away and leaving them behind. I've been putting them in a sack the morning of the trash hauling. After a low miss hit a rock and nailed one of my own shop windows with a .22. Yeah, smarts huh?

I'm gone to a .17M2, I like that, fairly quiet and almost instant kills. Never had one get more than a couple feet and that was a body shot and flopped around some.

Out in the country unless it's close enough to make the stink offensive. Think I'd leave 'em lay and let the coyote's eat 'em.

But, have read posts where folks have hung 'em on fence posts so the owners can find 'em.

No tags, or collars, they're feral to me.

A doctor I was seeing in Denver owns some land close to 200 miles south of there. He's known I called & shot coyotes for yrs. One time he asked if I'd go to his place and kill a very nasty rottwieler that threatened him at the gate.
When I got there it and several coyotes were about 120yds out in the pasture. When I stopped at the gate they stopped to watch me. Knowing how it threatened the doc. I just loaded up and rolled the window down. .223 40gr dropped it, I barked and stopped the pack and got a coyote too. Then a few days later I got a couple more of them.

The rotty had a handfull of tags, rabies tags, etc. From Denver no less. I mailed the collar and all to the doc without even a return address, or note.

Next time I went up to see another doc, this one looked me up and thanked me. He'd called the owner and they claimed the dog was right there with them. So he drove over there and handed them the collar and walked away.

When calling coyotes not many miles from town we see quite a few dogs running with the packs. Seems if they are females they are accepted a lot. The males have to be a better fighter and usually end up leading the pack. OR else they're killed by the pack.

Too many idiots don't want their pets any longer so take 'em to the country and dump 'em. That's what happens to 'em.

The thing about wounding anything around my area is they'll haul your butt to court for animal cruelty and make it stick. That's why I prefer to kill them outright. Doing that, you can prove you were not cruel. Especially with head shots.

George

For me a large live trap works on the cats, I shoot them with a 22CBcap, and they go in the garbage, SSS only no shovel needed. A buddy had dog problems and told the owner to do something about it, a week later the same problems he set the live trap and disposed of the problem.. I have always said city folk move out to the country the first thing they do is get a BIG dog and let it run, the dog almost always ends up in a hole, either from a car or a GSW.

Actually George, I did not intent to just wound the dog and let it run. I was trying to kill it, but, I was taking a 75 yard offhand shot at a running dog.

I had to run to the house for my rifle and run back towards the barn and as soon as I could see the dog attacking I fired hoping to at least stop it. I never shoot to wound, if I pull a trigger the intention is to kill.

The dog resisted my efforts to scare it off by hollering at it as it ran my fenceline. It finally breeched the electric, set at 8 inch intervals.

I never shot a dog or at one before, hard to do, trust me as I have always had dogs.

I did take video of the scene after the fact just in case something bad happend out of it. I still have the video and narration showing the barn, pasture and blood trail, etc. I still have the one surviving hen but she is lame and permanently so.

Bobby,

I snared a fox that took 14 hens out of the coop one night and ate their necks for the blood. It left some still alive, mortally wounded to suffer. Don't be fooled, any wild k-9, coon, weasle, dog, etc will kill just to kill.

A 22rf would not be my first choice to stop any dog. I've shot them with .223Rem, 25-06Rem and 44 magnum. They all bled, but none left a trail. The temptation that led to their demise was laying hens.

All our guns were locked up in the safe except for the .22. I didn't really think it through, just grabbed it up. It was a good choice though, because i wouldn't shoot a high powered rifle that close to the house and with other people living around, but it was far enough that the 22 with a hillside backstop didn't pose much danger. And it did the trick.

As far as a trail, the only blood trail was a few very small specks of blood, but they showed up well on snow. We followed the tracks and a couple times when the tracks intercepted other dog tracks we could tell which was which by looking close for the specks. When we spotted the dog, it was actig woozy. My husband put it out of its misery with a with a CZ hollowpoint behind the ear.



Plinker

About putting cats and such in the trash....

There was a guy down around Charleston made the local news because he put a couple of dead dogs in the trash. It seems like it would be his business. But the media made a big stink out of it. It was summer and it made the trash truck smell worse than normal. That's how the garbage guy noticed it. The media carried on like it was human beings instead of property.

With the ground frozen, how did you dispose of the 2 you dispatched?

My dad didnt intend to wound the dog either.He shot it with a 12 guage slug.The dog was still chasing the chickens and he shot it a little too far back.The dog ran home and died on the porch which is about 150 yrds away.It was easy for the neighbor to follow that bloodtrail!!!

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
With the ground frozen, how did you dispose of the 2 you dispatched?

Steep ravine in the woods. Transported by ATV.

quote:

Originally posted by mdmike:
My dad didnt intend to wound the dog either.He shot it with a 12 guage slug.The dog was still chasing the chickens and he shot it a little too far back.The dog ran home and died on the porch which is about 150 yrds away.It was easy for the neighbor to follow that bloodtrail!!!

Better on the porch than under it.. or way back under the house. Yes, 12 ga would make easy bloodtrail. But if the neighbor was only 150 yds away he had to know you had chickens. He should have known better than let the dog run loose.

Plinker

Ann:
Thanks for the explanation, didn't really sound like something you'd do on purpose. But, I've heard such things from others that fooled me. One's a cop and his neighbor's cats. He gut shoots them with shorts, or CB's when he can get 'em.

Far as those I'm fixing up here, it's still winter, let 'em freeze til the trash morning so they're not stinkin yet. Should make it to the dump before they do. But, from the smell of this truck, doubt they'd be able to tell the difference. Been yrs since I've smelled a trash truck stinking that bad. Told 'em awhile back they'd better clean it up or I was gonna change haulers. But, for $7 less a month, think I'll stay and just grumble. hehe.

Ann: Pick up a HMR, or 17M2, NEF's are cheap and don't make much racket compared to a .22. More accurate and effective at 75yds too. Lung shots shouldn't bleed, unless a red speck, doubt they'd leave much trail.

Wish you all well,

George

I live in city and my real choice would be to shoot and kill. I don't dare shoot anything big enough for a certain kill,so I trap. We have very good animal control service here. They euthanize skunks on the spot with injections. Everything else they haul off. Have had a couple of neighbors have to pay $50 to get their cat back. One is a friend of mine and he's had to pay twice,but he realizes I didnt go down to his yard and trap his cat. I catch more coons than anything,some possums and a skunk every now and then and some cats.

George, It's usually best to use what ever gun you would use if it were hunting season and you were hunting the said animal, if not a little larger, as long as it is safe to do so.

Most of the problem dogs I have had got the hint with a pellet or 2 in the rump or a load of rock salt from the 12 gauge. But those that didn't eventually were trapped or got a round from a 30-06 or a load of 00 buck. 45acp with hollow points works well also.

I also call our animal control officer before it gets to the point of lethal force and talk to the neighbors also to try and find the owners first. The dogs I have trapped and taken them to animal control were put directly into the gas chamber and I was advised that it's alot less hassle to just shoot them and be done with it, the gas just costs the taxpayers money. But on the same hand the ACO and I have been friends for years.

I feed birds............from hummingbird to buzzard!!! Favored cal. is .222, with .22 for livetrap. Working on a pack (8-10 "ferals") now. Just don't talk about what you're doing.
Nick

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman:
I live in city and my real choice would be to shoot and kill. I don't dare shoot anything big enough for a certain kill,so I trap. We have very good animal control service here. They euthanize skunks on the spot with injections. Everything else they haul off. Have had a couple of neighbors have to pay $50 to get their cat back. One is a friend of mine and he's had to pay twice,but he realizes I didnt go down to his yard and trap his cat. I catch more coons than anything,some possums and a skunk every now and then and some cats.

Your neighbor had to pay $50.00...twice...and he's still your friend??? You owe him a big favor for still being your friend after that. Next time take the cat directly to him, only charge him half what animal control charges, and you'll make 25 and he'll save 25. That'd prove you're REAL friends.

Plinker

One of my neighbors asked me if I knew whose cat I had caught? I didn't,and she told me it was Bobby's. How did they know? Animal control told him where it was caught. I had some words with animal control. Bobby never mentioned it for a long time--we had rubbed elbows together several times. Then it came up and his attitude was I didnt go down to his yard and trap it and his cat was in fact in my yard. Bobby is a retired Marine and works out all time and is one mass of muscle. I am very glad he took it as he did. He is a very close friend of one of my son in laws friends and we have been in the same hunting camp several times.

Trekker:

IF I wasn't in the middle of town, I'd get the .223 and 40gr loads out. BUT: I am, so the 17M2 is about the best I can do.

The cats have learned I'm gonna get 'em if they don't get their butts outta here quick enough. They come in the yard, they're watching for me to head to the back door. I've got a window wall on that side so can't sneak out on 'em.

I see tracks in the snow, but, seldom even see any during the day. I've seen fresh tracks inside the shop on the dirt floor again. That's where I want to set the connie's up.

Need to get the cocking tool as I can't squeeze the springs down and the rope trick hasn't worked for me the several times' I've tried it.

When's spring gonna get here?? This cold spell is getting old. Finding out for sure I'd never make in the north country.

George

Dogs are dogs! You can't manage them 100% of the time. Kinda like kids. Somebody shoots my favorite dog had better watch his back.

I guess that you don't mind keeping your dog on your own property, do you?

Right on AP!!!

Same goes for the F K G Cats too!

George

When I was a kid, we lived about four miles outside a small town, just across the first bridge. Lots of sorry assed folks would bring their dogs and cats out into the "country" and let them loose, and they would show up at our house, hungry and scared. It was a real problem, as we already always had several dogs and cats around anyway, and sometimes these strays would be diseased.

Anyway, I started shooting them, and shot so many that the idea disgusts me today, even though the law was much different then, and circumstance warranted it. In the same situation, I would probably have to do it again, but not without considering alternatives first, and feeling some compassion.

In recient years, I have known many folks who are dog and cat killers. Some have compassion, and others I believe are spiteful, nasty, patholigical killers, just looking for an excuse.

I have been on both sides of this fence, having many examples, particularly when I lost a whole flock of chickens, which I so carefully raised to eat. A pack of free ranging dogs came through, and killed them all one afternoon. I tried to get a shot at them for months afterwards, but they were sly.

This is an example to show what happens as a practical matter. Sometimes the sly ones do the damage, and then the fat dumb pet of the neighbor drops by for a visit or bit of mischief, and gets shot, because he has lived a protected life, and thinks all people are his friend. The shooter feels justified and has his revenge, and someone loses his beloved friend.

So there are different situations that warrant different remedies. My experience with some shooters, is that they don't bother to try to distinguish, but just stand by some butt headed justification.

It's a difficult issue, and I am yet to be comfortable with a set answer either way. I suppose it depends, but I'm convinced that some of the dog killers are nasty sly dogs themselves.

I have seen a lot of nice animals lost this way. Once I had some zellot and righteous woman say she would "put down" my female lab if she came onto the woman's property. It made me very angry, and naturally I was careful, but worried that some day my dog might get loose and wander over that way. I moved soon afterwards, but never forgot it. My secondary worry, after the fear for my dog, was what I might do if the woman did shoot my dog, which I considered family. I knew that I had my limits, and didn't know for sure that would not be over the edge. I just knew that it was a good way for someone to get hurt. I really didn't want to be tested that much.

Dogs in general are easier to get along with than most people.

Dogs don’t know about revenge, spite, grudges, or belief systems, but I’m not so sure about compassion.

Once upon a time, way back when the chasm was being formed in the natural scheme of things which were, are, and things to come, dividing the wild animals and “domestic†animals, many animals crossed over reluctantly – such as the cat, and perhaps the Llama. However there is one animal, the dog, who willingly crossed over the chasm to live beside and with humans, to share their lot in destiny, with no turning back. Only the horse may rival the dog in the systemic bond between humans and a breed of animal. It seems to me that we have some sort of obligation, in general, to treat these animals with some degree of kindness.

KB

I trust all will be safe doing what needs to be done as long as it's dogs and chickens and just a 22 or 25-06 and you control your urges to use those cat training collars on them or invent the most exotic of implausible control measures for your literary pleasure. You could get in trouble if it's cats and rabbits or tweeters, er even a plain old scent post on your pop-up tire, you see. Nice thread though, illustrating the FERAL, or not so Feral problem.

"Once upon a time, way back when the chasm was being formed in the natural scheme of things which were, are, and things to come, dividing the wild animals and “domestic†animals, many animals crossed over reluctantly – such as the cat, and perhaps the Llama. However there is one animal, the dog, who willingly crossed over the chasm to live beside and with humans, to share their lot in destiny, with no turning back. Only the horse may rival the dog in the systemic bond between humans and a breed of animal. It seems to me that we have some sort of obligation, in general, to treat these animals with some degree of kindness.

Kabluewy,
I am not sure if that came from your brain, heart, or your ready it out of a book, but that was beautiful.

Horses and Dogs, that's really what it's all about. Cats, ferrets, birds, hogs, sheep, goats, hamsters, whatever else is just a thing. Dogs and horses are almost human.

I don't think I could pull the trigger on a dog that was trespassing. A dog that was killing sheep would probably get photographed, and the neighbor would get the bill. Chickens, hmm a dog's life is worth more than any chicken, probably the same as the sheep.

Now a cat looks at my yard and a 200 grain balistic tip is going to turn him into red paint.

Obviously any animal chasing or hurting kids would be handled the same as the cat.

quote:

About the lab you snared, that's great. I never figured out snares, but i usually can't figure out where the trails are anyway. Except when there's a snow like there is now. I'm with you on the lab, they're pretty docile, really. They're prob one of the less aggressive dogs there is. Although they are bird dogs, so a chicken would be pretty enticing so it's a good thing it learned to stay away

Labs are great dogs, not generally agressive, but will gladly kill anything with wings.

In reference to the dog owners of the world: sometimes the mere threat of shooting someone's dog can motivate them to get a handle on their troublesome animal.

Some new people had moved into the neighborhood I once lived in and let their theiving bird dog run loose all the time. Up till them moving in, no one had a fence and everybody's dog just kinda stayed on their property. Until this dog showed up. He must of had a shoe fetish because he loved to steal shoes and take them home and gnaw on them - at any one time there were probably ten shoes in these people's yard. Then he ate my sister's roller skates and hauled off one of my new hiking boots. Well, I let it be known that if I found this dog on my property again, for any reason, he'd simply dissappear. Wouldn't you know it? That damned dog suddenly came down with a vicious case of heart worms and had to be tied up for several months while he was being treated. Now, he may have genuinely had a case of heart worms, or maybe they believed the neighborhood rumor about what would happen to the dog if I saw it again. Eitherway, once he was tied up shoes and garbage stopped finding their way into these people's yard.

If you own a dog that's a nuisance, its your responsibility to do something about it. Otherwise someone else might and probably has different ideas about how to handle problem dog...

I have dogs that run loose on 80 acres. If they chase the neighbor's cattle, they need to be shot at or hit. The bird dog has already chased away my guineas, but now I have a shock collar for her.
There's only so-much energy one can spend on correcting the behavior of pets. There are too many good dogs awaiting adoption at the shelter.

I live in a rural area with 3 dogs {big},found the easiest way to control them is to only let 1 off at a time,my neighbors are pretty good about it if they do manage to get out together.but i think that is because i told them i wouldnt hold it against them if they shot them if they were bothering stock. Gee that george sounds a cranky old F@#T HE GOT SOMETHING AGAINST PUSSIES

D99 wrote:

quote:

A dog that was killing sheep would probably get photographed,

Hmmmm...

You'd sit back and watch a flock of sheep get mauled and maimed and do nothing about it???

I simply can't understand such thinking (or lack thereof).

I like dogs and have had some wonderful pets over the years. But if a dog is killing chickens or running down and killing sheep, only one thing will solve the problem, and that's getting rid of the culprit.

Bobby: You got that right!

Sambar: sounds about right except the last part!! hehe

Hey all: blocked all except two holes the cats had been using all the time. Set a med conibear across each one.
Guess what? Even with bait on the wires not a single cat has come in the shop since. Almost never see them in the yard now either. They sure know what a trap looks like.

I put chicken scraps out and it's gone over night and cat tracks in the sand I spread to catch tracks in so I'd know what it was. But, when the chicken is in the trap the ants will eat it up before anything else touches it. Amazing how well cats can be trained with a little incentive.

George

Bobby,coons fox skunks and possoms they
all will keep on killin every bird in the house.
Had it happen to me nad many neighbors.pan.

Aspen Hill Adventures;
I guess that your neighbor never realized that those chickens are a source of food and income for you while his dog is neither for him. That is why every state has a law allowing livestock owners to defend their livestock from attack by free roaming dogs, by killing the dogs. That and the fact that it is just about impossable to get a dog owner to pay for the livestock his dog has destroyed. Simpliest solution is to just shot the dog and let the owner of the dog howl.

A friend of mine was scouting deer after the season and came on a state game biologist with three dead dogs he had just shot. The biologist had seen them chase five deer into the snow drifts and kill them. I have to wonder how many deer these dogs had killed over the years. The biologist even knew what farm they came from, they were somebodies "pets" and on their own property, however in that state it is legal for state employees to kill dogs that are chasing deer. I hope they sent the landower a bill for the deer and the ammunition. My friend asked the biologist what he should do if he saw dogs attacking deer and he told him to SSS.