Sounds excellent, that's what I think I will eventually do. If I get it this year, it'lll probably be just plain factory sights though.

I had a 45-70 when I was 14-the long trapdoor version. Recoil was a big push, no big deal. Now I have a 95 Marlin in 45-70, with a 2 1/2X scope on it and I love this rifle!! The 300 gr Factory loads have less recoil than my hot handloads, and are plenty for deer. The Guide gun is louder than my 22" barrel one, and I don't think the short barrel is a big advantage, unless you hunt in thick cover(every time I hunt in thick cover, the deer hear me WAY before I get to see them). PS You collectors have your fits now---I checkered the stock, put sling swivels on, and it's a straight stock non Micro barrel first edition! The thing does shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds with my handloads and paper patched 405 gr soft slugs at about 1850 fps.

The stuff I usually end up hunting in is really thick Missouri brush. There's deer in there, but it's hard to get to them. The 18" inch version sounds just about ideal. Then I could get some Leupold QR mounts with a low powered 1.5x5 or 2.5 fixed scope or something, along with a peep sight. Makes me excited and I don't even have the gun yet.

Just remember-the old story about the 45-70 being able to "plow right through brush, and still kill the deer" is just hooey. The soft slow slugs of the 45-70 tumble, and go all over the target if they hit a 1/2" thick branch. Proven by tests, so look for a hole thru the brush if you want to hit that deer.

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The stuff I usually end up hunting in is really thick Missouri brush. There's deer in there, but it's hard to get to them. The 18" inch version sounds just about ideal. Then I could get some Leupold QR mounts with a low powered 1.5x5 or 2.5 fixed scope or something, along with a peep sight.

If you're hunting in the thick stuff I recommend you save your money. I'm about to remove the Leupold scout scope and XS scout mount from my Mjolnir. With this set up, as well as 1-4 and 4x scopes in the conventional location, there is no way to get a consistent cheek weld on the stock. It already wears a Lyman receiver sight and in deference to my aging peepers I'll replace the Brockman post with a fiber optic bead. With low mounted irons a fella shoulders the rifle and sights are on target. Should be all a person needs to turn deer into venison and bears into rugs inside 100 yards or so. Might bob the barrel to 16-1/4 to be rid of the ports as well, but that is another story. With the money you save you can get all set up to handload your own 45/70 ammo.

xs...you are right...i would love to see tests done on faster twist barrels on deflection. i think the faster the twist all things being equal it will be more stable and "Brush Busting"

I've seen the test that was done with the different calibers shooting through brush and stuff. None worked, but since a shotgun slug has a weight forward design kinda like a birdie in badminton it was the best at "busting brush". None were recomended though. How good are the factory sights, and what are some good brands of other sights? Peep sights are amazingly expensive, some of them are like $200, I don't want anything that expensive.

I'd look more at ghost rings for brush than at peep sights -- XS ghost rings are about $90. Don't know about their rifle sights, but I like their pistol sights -- personally, I love the Trijicon reflex sight on mine, but it's pretty ugly, and more than $200.

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How good are the factory sights, and what are some good brands of other sights? Peep sights are amazingly expensive, some of them are like $200, I don't want anything that expensive.

The factory irons are nothing special. A Williams Guide sight and fiber optic bead will get you started for $42 http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=945296 The XS ghost ring set http://www.xssights.com/store/rifle.html costs $90, but seem needlessly tall. WWG will sell you their kit http://wildwestguns.com/Accessories/body_accessories.html for $149. As for expense, I encourage you to think more about value than cost. You're setting up a rifle that will last a lifetime or two, so do what you must to get the right tool the first time.

The peep sight got bad reviews, so I don't think I'll get it. The ghost ring sight would give me a large field of view though. It doesn't seem like it would be as accurate, anyone have expierience with them?

the peep ghose ring set up has diff sizes...

use the ghost ring for 50 yards and the scope for 100 and beyond with no problems

http://www.xssights.com/store/rifle.html

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The peep sight got bad reviews, so I don't think I'll get it. The ghost ring sight would give me a large field of view though. It doesn't seem like it would be as accurate, anyone have expierience with them?

A "ghost ring" is just a receiver sight with the screw-in aperture removed. It's quicker and works better in low light but it's a little less precise as the range increases. Most aperture sights have screw-in disks that allow you to decide how big a hole to look through. If you don't like one you buy another. As for accuracy my Guide Gun shoots under 2 inches @ 100 yards with a scope. It shoots under 3 inches with a "peep" sight and a flat topped post. Nothing you'll ever hunt with a 45/70 will ever be able to tell the difference. If you don't like the Williams Guide sight a conventional side mounted Williams or Lyman will set you back another $20; still less than XS or WWG.

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Originally posted by Sixgun Symphony:

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Originally posted by boom stick:

i dont see much point in a long barrel 45-70 unless you have a nostalgia gun.

The .45-70 cartridge was designed for blackpowder. The longer barrels are best for such loads.

IMO, there is no point in using smokeless powder for BP cartridges. If you must use the smokeless powder, then you might as well get a modern cartridge chambering too.

There is truth to what you say but on the other hand the smokeless version of this cartridge basically makes it almost a completely different "animal" and fun to shoot in it's own right.

And if it used blackpowder I would have to deal with fouling and all the other blackpowder issues.

Look's like I'm getting a safe for my birthday. My grandma wants to get me one to protect my guns. This will be for my birthday and christmas, but I'll get it early. That means...hopefully i can joint he *Band of 45-70ers* before deer season.

we will make you an honoree member in the time being...being a we band of 45-70ers is in the heart. others have a 45-70 but they dont got it where it counts. you do, so consider yourself "in" (but no drinking till yer 18 or yer parents are around)

I'll pretend it's root beer. Cheers.

tyler...p.m. me i cant p.m. you.

I'll share my experience with the Guild gun in 45-70.
At the time i bought it, I had a 22LR, a 270 Win, and a 12 guage single shot.

With low velocity loads like Ultramax 405gr at around 1000 fps, the kick felt about half way between a 22 and the 270 win.

With medium or average loads like rem 405gr at 1300 fps or winchester 300gr at 1800 fps, the recoil was at about 270 win level, but definately under a 7mm mag.
The round can look intimidating at first until you fire it and realize it's not bad at all.

Now when you get into the Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo, you'll feel a whole lot more kick than the other loads. these high velocity loads with heavy bullets are comparable to a 3in magnum 12 gauge load in a light weight shotgun.

You should be able to handle all the standard factory loads with no problems and both the low velocity and medium velocity round should kill dear no problem within 100 yrds.

get the 45-70, they are a lot of fun, accurate, and put big holes in everything.
The recoil can range from very mild to very heavy. depending on what rounds you use, you can hunt anything from small game to deer, to pigs, to elk, and even bear within the respectable range for this caliber.

3 1/2" 2 1/4 oz turkey loads in a little NEF kick hard. Sitting down the first time I shot one it layed me on my back. The next time I was more ready. Chuckhawks says about 60 lbs a recoil in a normal weight gun. I'd guess 65 to 70 in a the singleshot. Shootin' that too many times would give about anyone a flinch.

well,
most modern 14 year olds are bigger bodied than 20 year olds 100 years ago, I can't imagine why not.

jeffe

Tyler,

My first firearm was a lightweight youth model 20 gauge single shot. I shot 3" duck loads out of it and learned to deal with recoil. If I could handle this shotgun at 12, I'd imagine you'll do just fine with a 45-70 at 14; especially since you're already shooting a 7mm Rem Mag. Just get some ammo and practice shooting from a standing position.

You'll do fine!

The first deer I ever shot was with a 45-70 I was 14 at the time. The last deer I shot (so far) was with a 45-70 I was 54 at the time. I have been through a lot of rifles and calibers in the intervening years. I feel that the old 45 Govt. is the best short range caliber in existance thats why it is still around after 130 years.
In the Marlin, I have an 1895 CB so the 26 " barrel makes it a bit more front heavy than the GG the recoil is really no more than a 12 ga with moderate loads. A 1 oz. slug would be a good comparison I think. In fact thinking about it that is almost an exact comparison. 1 Oz = about 385 grns at 1300 fps. that is the old factory load but add 20 grns for the 45-70 405 grn at 1300 fps That is the "Light" Remington load. I shot a 250 lb deer and two Hogs at over 100 yards and one PO'd boar at about fifteen feet with that load they were all DRT the hogs went 150 and 200 and the boar went close to 300 he had been shot with a 25-06 first and ran off that was why he was PO'd the 45-70 dropped them all like a fifty pound hammer. The bullet went in right behind the head and broke his neck then went down and cruched the heart splitting it in half. The 25-06 bullet was recovered in the shoulder muscle it had only gone in about two inches and flattened on bone. When I was cutting up one of the pigs The bullet had gone in right behind the left fore leg and gone through I only had to slice the muscle around the left picnic and lift it off. the shoulder joint was totally disjointed just from the impact four inches away that was at 110 yards paced off distance over a stubble field.
Yes i think you can shoot a 45-70 even at 14, just take time so you do not develope any recoil associated bad habits and the Garretts are really not needed unless you go after somthing really big and bad like buffalo or Grizz

Go for it. I have a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 and love it. I have killed deer, black bear and coyote with it. I never got a chance with a whitetail when it was in my hands but I am sure it would do the job there also. It dosent kick that bad depending on the load. I like 300 grain Barnes X pushed to 1900 fps. I also like the fact that I can load a 410 shot shell in it in a pinch and kill partrige when out deer hunting.

What? It can shoot .410 shells? Anyone else know about this?

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What? It can shoot .410 shells? Anyone else know about this?

Another closely held 130 year old secret down the drain... What's next, showing him the secret 45/70 handshake?

So it's safe to do? The rifling would screw up patterns but it would be cool to hit thrown clays at 10 yards and not tell anyone I wasn't shooting a bullet at it. I thought .410 pressure was pretty high though?

It's safe to do, however the pattern isn't exactly very effecient, especially with how little pellets the shell holds. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the .410 only operates around in the 18kpsi area....I think. I'm running off memory now. It's a funny ultra-short range squirrel whacker, although it's even funnier if you "accidently" put a standard round through the rifle!

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If I get it this year, it'lll probably be just plain factory sights though

I took the XS Scout Mount off my Guide Gun and replaced the front sight (Brockman post) with a Marbles fiberoptic bead. Had to dial in a bit of adjustment on the Lyman 66 receiver sight now that the sightline is lower. Only had a handful of Winchester Nosler Partitions to play with but the 300s are landing at the center of the bead at 25 and 50 yards. The two shots I took at 50 landed about a half inch apart (this load shoots close to an inch at 100 when using a scope). I'll have to see if I can come up with a cast bullet load it likes as much but for now Mjolnir is ready for the 2006 deer woods.

Squirrels around my house live mostly in a horse pen, so they let you get close beofre they run. I don't know what I was thinking, the .410 definatly doesn't have metal cartridge pressure, but it is at the top of the shotgun pressure because of the small diameter right?

I actually think the 410 has the highest pressure of any shotgun round -- due to the very narrow bore -- still less than a rifle round, I believe. If you plan to shoot 410s regularly, you may want to try and handload either some 45-70 brass with shot -- if you need me to, I can find the article on loading straight-walled cases with shot -- or try to find paper-wad 410s -- not sure if this is 100%, but my gunsmith was griping about trying to clean a bunch of plastic out of a 45-70 barrel, after someone was shooting 410s through it -- the rifling is also supposed to make it pattern like @#$%

Actually Aglifter is right, you'd be scrubbing plastic out of that bore for a while if you do that regularly. Doesn't sound like too much fun to me. I've tried this out of a single shot NEF 45-70 and I wasn't too terribly impressed with anything that combination had to offer. Now thinking about it though....wonder what one of them mini-slugs out of that round would do in a 45-70? Damn, off to the range with me!

But if you reload a .410 slug is way more expensive than most all reloads with cheaper bullets, and not near as powerful. What are some metal case shot loads? Someone on another sight said wrap the shot up in plastic wrap opposite the way the rifling spins it. If done correctly the shot is supposed to stay relatively still while the plastic unwinds and lets the shot free. But this seems a surefire way for BAD plastic fouling. Boy, I love this subject, so much to talk about.

I've had the opportunity to shoot a Marlin 1895 cowboy rifle. It was really pleasant, but that was with mild loads. I understand that it can get rather painful if you hot load heavy bullets. However that versatility is part of the appeal...I just wish I had one myself. If you're set on this combo then go for it and don't let any of those Bass Pro "eggspurts" deter you. Shoot your rifle often and know it's trajectory and there isn't an animal in this part of the country that will be safe.

On the other hand, don't sell the ol' .30-30 short because it's a heck of a deer killing round. There's a good reason both of these rounds have passed the test of time because they're both effective when used within their capability.

You kind of remind me of myself when I was about 14 and I wanted a .44 Mag pistol. That was when it was pretty much the biggest pistol round available. I had people trying to talk me into something "more reasonable" but I wanted a .44! I bought it and practiced a lot. I was able to control flinching even with my heavy handloads to the point I was able to shoot 5 shots offhand under 2".

The biggest thing I think is to practice to keep proficient with whatever gun you choose.

For whatever it's worth I just bought myself a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag and it would be a dandy deer rifle for hauling around in the woods. I'm thinking of loading some 270-280gr cast bullets with a nice wide meplat to around 1400-1500fps and I'll guarantee you there isn't a deer around within a 100 yards that would feel safe.

I thought about a pistol for shorter range, but I'm not all that accurate with them and I don't want to take a bad shot. The cowboy model has no recoil pad right? I figure the Limbsaver will take out the bite of the recoil, so i'm not too concerened about that, and I don't need any hot loads for deer in the woods, and I have my 7mm to reach out further.

The .410 will fire ok in a 45/70 alright but extracting them is something else again.
If you do eventually try it you will need a small screwdriver (or similar) to hook that fired case out of the chamber.
The rim diameter and thickness of a .410 shell is somewhat smaller than the 45/70 case and the extractor (in my rifle anyway) just slips straight over the rim of the fired shell when you go to jack that lever.
Pattern size is about 4 feet in diameter at 15 yards. Not very useful except for snakes maybe a few feet away.
The pressure seems very very low, very little noise or recoil, there must be heaps of blowby due to the smaller size of the .410 round as compared to the .458 bore.
The case head obturates enough to keep things sealed up though.
It's worth a trying just for giggles.

I could shoot one when I was 9 years old

Well, passed up what I thought was a good deal yesterday, a 12 gauge TC New Englander, muzzleloader, only $225. Couldn't find the value of it online anywhere, so I passed it up, thinking of a 45-70...everyone better be proud of me.

Tyler,

Hang in there, you'll eventually find a GG that someone wimped out on and traded in. Also be alert for any 1894's in .44mag, cheaper to shoot and still enough gun to do for most animals in NA.

Well there's a gun show next weekend, maybe I'll find one there, hopefully used by a wimp like you said! Get it cheap!