I shot a Ruger 77R tang safety 30-06 until I was 21 as my only rifle. I got it from my grandfather when I was 12 and learned to handle the big guns with it.

Now I have about 5 or 6 guns that kick pretty good, and a 45-70 is a good cartridge that puts a big hole in things and they don't usually go far if hit right.

Unless your really big for your age or really small there probably isn't any reason that you can't shoot a 45-70 with a good quality recoil pad in a 1895 Marlin rifle.

Being big for your age is kind of a bum rap, as you have to absorb all that recoil instead of moving with it. I am 5'11 and weigh 240 pounds. I don't move much under recoil from my 375 H&H, but I painfully absorb it.

When I was younger and smaller the bigger guns just pushed me around.

The guide gun will kick a little more, but I think you will be fine either way.

Good luck with your 45-70, I would also recomend the 450 Marlin (it's got a touch more recoil, but is even more fun).

Make sure you get your non-hunting friends hunting. It is your job to recruit new hunters, or 50 years from now when your an old man this whole thing will be over.

I think you'd be able to handle it. Its not the shoulder killer that people make it out to be.

I say go for it. Recoil is managable with proper technique, gun fit and recoil pads.

The factory Remington loads are pretty tame in my Buffalo Classic.
The 45-70 is pretty versatile. I load up for Godzilla or load down for plinking. So if you are handloading, you can tailor the load to your recoil level. One of my loads is pushing a Speer 350gr bullet to 2300fps, another load pushes a Remington 405gr to 1500fps. Depends on what you want.

ZM

If you shoot the Remington Factory 405 grain load, the 30-30 will have more felt recoil. You will be just fine!

My uncle thought I was being a smart*** when i said that his 8 year old son's .243 might kick about the same becuase it's so light. He wouldn't believe me until I started talking about pressures and trapdoors rifles that he left me alone about it. Too many people think they know too much about guns. (including me probably )

quote:

Originally posted by CZ 550:
I think you'd be able to handle it. Its not the shoulder killer that people make it out to be.

if you shoot +P+ out of a guide gun at the bench it will bruse ya...

if you shoot the tame remington loads i would let a ten year old shoot it

if you get one, join the "band"

if you get one go for the stainless guide gun with NO ports!

i dont see much point in a long barrel 45-70 unless you have a nostalgia gun.

borrow someones guide gun and 22" and shoot a variety of loads...

How much more does a Stainless cost than normal blued? Also, is no ports for noise or what? How much does it effect recoil also, I heard that only higher pressure cartridges benefit from porting.

My Guide Gun is pleasant with the 405 gr Remington factory - about like a 12 ga trap load. The 300 gr factory ammo is a little snappier but no worse than a 30'06 (so no worse than your 7mm). With regard to recoil the best thing a fella can do for the Marlin is to replace the truck tire they use for a recoil pad. All that said, unless you are hunting something larger than deer or feral pigs a 30/30 will do a neat job, shoots flatter past 100 yard, and is cheaper - both to buy and to feed.

The past expierience I had with a 30-30 was bad. 4 shots at 100 yards...1 hit a poster sized target on the corner. Move in to 50 yards, 2 near the center, 2 somewhere else, move to 25 yards...about a 7 inch group. I don't know if it was the ammunition or the gun or whatever, but it has made me wary of the 30-30 ever since. Yes I know that most guns aren't like that and that it will bring down a deer fine, but I really like the 45-70. Plus if I handload, I can get it to around the same trajectory of a 30-30 with alot more knockdown power. I like big guns, plus I get to be a part of the *Band of 45-70ers*. Heck yes!

If you can handle a 7 Mag you can handle a 45-70 . I use the factory 300s which are very effective out to 150 yds at least. The last deer I shot with my 1885 [8 1/2 lbs total weight] I was in an awkward position with the butt under my shoulder and the deer looking right at me !I didn't dare move so I just held on tight and fired. The scope just touched my glasses in recoil. I would never have tried this with hot 45-70 loads .Hot loads are not needed for deer. The 300 @ 1850 is a load that Winchester had since 100 years ago ,it still works fine,

I started my kids deer hunting at 12 with 870 youth model 20 ga. slug guns. Had them do alot of dry firing. Practiced shooting my 572 .22 pump. Only shot a few slugs before they went hunting. No problems. I doubt the 45-70 kick much more. Good luck!!

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
How much more does a Stainless cost than normal blued? Also, is no ports for noise or what? How much does it effect recoil also, I heard that only higher pressure cartridges benefit from porting.

the ports are of less relevance because unless you buy a used or "old stock" marlin, it won't be ported, the ports have been discontinued.

if you avoid shooting the 45-70 from the bench, you'll probably do OK, I'm 6'4" and 290lb and I simply don't move with the recoil... I broke my collar bone with my 45-70 before I had a recoil pad added to it (forever insulting marlin collectors by taking an early 1972 production and modifying the stock)...

AllanD

In my blued Guide Gun the Remington 405gr factory loads kick like a 20ga Remington 870. My fiance has a Stainless GG and she practices with a load using 15gr of Unique to push a 400gr commercial cast lead bullet at @ 1,100fps which has very little kick. During deer season she then loaded up with my standard load which is the same 400gr bullet pushed by enough Varget to get 1,600fps and K.O.'d her first deer with one shot. She said she didn't feel the recoil at all.

One of my co-workers has the GG with ports, neither mine or my fiance's is ported. I can't tell a bit of difference in recoil or blast between the three guns.

If you don't expect really long shots and want one heck of a thumper on game the .45-70 is a great round and the Marlin rifles are nice a launch system. The Ruger #1 is a bit pricier and the H&R my neighbor owns is a bit cheaper but he's really satisfied with the accuracy with it.

Get the guide gun. I have one that I use for deer and pigs here in Georgia. It is the handiest thing you can imagine in heavy, brushy cover like I hunt in.

What you will find is that a lot of people who think they do actually don't know dick about firearms. When I first started hunting with my 45-70 the guys in the deer camp made all kinds of stupid remarks like "You'll blow the deer all to hell with that cannon". Those kinds of remarks are rooted in ignorance and are on par with those who are telling you that a 45-70 is the hardest kicking gun you'll ever shoot. I'd be willing to bet that most of the folks telling you that have never even shot one. If you're shooting a 7mm Mag accurately at 14 you're already ahead of the game, you'll be fine with a 45-70. Now, go buy that 45-70, load up some shells and get to the range, and get back to us with a shooting report!

the stainless might be another 50 bucks...the problem i had was waiting 9 months to get one... put one on order and find out when marlin will make the next stainless production run.

oh yeah ditto what adrook said. i like to say that the 45-70 keeps hunters HUNTING! over 100 yards is not reeeeeely hunting when it comes to deer in my book. try to get within 60 yards so you can bow hunt some day.

Thanks for the big reply catboat, it was awesome. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do, guess either this discussion will keep up or I'll tell you guys how it works out later. I love this site.

45-70 with the factory remington loads are very mild to shoot. Garretts are another story -- beautifully made round, but kicks the stuffing out of you.

On my 1895 CB Marlin, I've put a WWG big loop, trigger, extractor, and follower -- all of which made great improvements in the gun, and a BIG recoil pad -- pachmeyer, I think. However, I think the quality of the gunsmith that I had put on the lever is one of the main reasons that the action became so much tighter. He didn't really thin the extractor would be of any benefit until he installed it, and realized how much it smoother the action/allowed him to modify something to smooth it. (It was a little too tight, but after about 30 garretts and hundreds of remingtons, it's perfect.) I also put a trijicon reflex sight on it for close work, and once I became familiar with it, I love it -- even like it better than using a scope on anything under 80 yds -- the dot just gets too big for me after that.

Personally, I wouldn't get one of the lever evolution Marlins in 45-70, since one of the main benefits of the caliber is the ability to use the Garrets on big stuff, and, I could be wrong, but I think the lever evolution ones are micro-rifled rather than Ballard rifled.

None of this stuff is needed by any means, but they're things that I think should be considered (frankly I can't understand why the trigger, follower, and extractor don't come the WWG way from the factory.)

I LOVE my 45-70, and plan on using it to hunt around the world, and only wish I had found out how nice it was earlier. Now I just need a long range gun that I like as much.

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:
What you will find is that a lot of people who think they do actually don't know dick about firearms. When I first started hunting with my 45-70 the guys in the deer camp made all kinds of stupid remarks like "You'll blow the deer all to hell with that cannon". Those kinds of remarks are rooted in ignorance and are on par with those who are telling you that a 45-70 is the hardest kicking gun you'll ever shoot. I'd be willing to bet that most of the folks telling you that have never even shot one. If you're shooting a 7mm Mag accurately at 14 you're already ahead of the game, you'll be fine with a 45-70. Now, go buy that 45-70, load up some shells and get to the range, and get back to us with a shooting report!

Back when I got my 45-70, my uncle had a 336 in 30-30, my cousin got a 336C in 35Rem, so naturally my brother got a 444Marlin.
then my uncle liked my brother's 444 so much he had me track down a bargain on a used one for him (I tend to be real good at finding bargains, of course the game ended by my getting my 1895.

I WIN!

I bought my 1895 way back (well, to some people)
in april of 1986 back before 45-70's were considered "cool".

So far I've been lucky, I've only ever sold guns that after long reflection (a decade or so)
I decided I didn't like.

Never felt that way about the 1895 even when nursing my broken collar bone, I kept thinking that I screwed up by not holding it TIGHT into my shoulder.
Granted deer don't get any "deader" than when shot with a 30-30, but...


AllanD

What is that, 2 people with broken collarbones from the 45-70 so far? I'm not that big...isn't it easier for a big person to break bones from shooting hard kicking loads since they don't move as much. Can anyone tell me things that would prevent this from happening? I hate broken bones....

the stock recoil pad on the guide gun should be a dog chew toy rather than a recoil pad. i recomend the kick-ease recoil pad although some swear by limbsaver.

that should be enough.

the kick ease is made of sorbathane and is a grind to fit. you can round the edges or keep them in the line of the stock but i preffer rounded. get the thick one.

My first deer was taken with my Dads Ruger 77 in 7mm Mag. That was the last time I shot that noisy beast. Since then I have "upgraded" to my most loveable 1894 .44mag and my very handy NEF .45-70, wouldn't go for anything else. I personally love the 405 grain loads for fun, and the 300 grain loads for deer/pig hunting. A guy at the range once gave me some 500 grain loads that must have been just slightly super-sonic, but he said they would carry out 600 yards from his trapdoor rifle. Pussycats from the NEF.

.30-30 makes a fine rifle combination, even with a low power scope, but lobbing large caliber bullets downrange is just more fun!

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
I've only ever sold guns that after long reflection (a decade or so)
I decided I didn't like.
AllanD

Allan,

That is some of the best advice that I have read in ages. Had I followed a similar path I would now still have a lot of guns that I sold that I wish I had back.

Tyler,

Allow me to make a concrete suggestion. Find someone who owns a 45-70 and try it out for yourself. Provided you stay away from the heavy hardcast stuff and the Garretts (which have really specialized application anyway) you will be fine. The Remington 405gr factory loads or a good handload with the 300gr Hornady are more than enough for deer and are a breeze to shoot and you can grow into the heavier stuff later if you decide that you need it.

Cheers,
Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
What is that, 2 people with broken collarbones from the 45-70 so far? I'm not that big...isn't it easier for a big person to break bones from shooting hard kicking loads since they don't move as much. Can anyone tell me things that would prevent this from happening? I hate broken bones....

My rifle didn't come with a recoil pad,
it came with a plastic butt plate.

I basically determined that the issue was not
so much the recoil pad as it was the whole
concept of firing that rifle from the bench in the first place....

I have a Lead Sled. My grandpa bought me it after he shot my 7mm from the bench...somehow when he shot it wripped his finger open to the bone! He thought I needed the Sled for my own good. So I guess working up loads from the bench won't be a problem.

Oh yeah and I have a slip on Sims Decelerator pad, should be as good or better than Pachmayer.

I vote with Mete ........ if you shoot a 7mmMag you will have no problem with a 45-70.

Tyler remember my boy, didn't I tell you to go get some of that creatine and hit the gym??
Think you'll be fine handling a 45-70 if you're using a 7mm Rem Mag right now. A good suggestion is to work yourself up to the +P loads instead of jumping right into them, otherwise you might be in for a little surprise the first time you pull the trigger.
And tell your grandfather to be careful dammit!

Oh he's never gonna be careful with that gun...he's vowed never to shoot it again. Sissy.

Oh yeah, I'm "hitting the gym" also, being a Freshman playing sports I'm expected to be in there 3 days outta the school week at least.

pmc has some damn fine +p+ 350 gr hornady f.p. 45-70 ammo trucking @ 2050 for about a buck a pop...great deal and great for deer

quote:

pmc has some damn fine +p+ 350 gr hornady f.p. 45-70 ammo trucking @ 2050 for about a buck a pop...great deal and great for deer

Pshaw! The 405 Remington factory 405 @ 1200 is great for deer. The factory 300s flatten the trajectory a little but not enough to matter in the woods. Anything with more juice than that is for use when your bear-sized pepperspray runs empty...

Nah no way, you ain't gonna see me out in the woods using a 350 grain Hornady bullet for bear protection, maybe that's just a prejudice from living in Kodiak, AK for over 13 years but I'd want something a lot more sturdy and heavy than that!

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

i dont see much point in a long barrel 45-70 unless you have a nostalgia gun.

The .45-70 cartridge was designed for blackpowder. The longer barrels are best for such loads.

IMO, there is no point in using smokeless powder for BP cartridges. If you must use the smokeless powder, then you might as well get a modern cartridge chambering too.

Uh-oh, Boomstick's gonna have a fit with that one!

I saw a Shiloh Sharps today in 45-70 at a local gun shop. I want one...boy it was nice.

Tyler-

First, let me say congrats on joining the AR forums, the 45/70 band, and on being a hunter. Too many guys your age want to play video games, instead of being in the woods.
Second- forget about people with their tall tales of "rifles that will dislocate your shoulder" or "snap your collarbone". A guy told me once that a 10 gauge shotgun, when he fired it, threw him backwards 20 feet and through a small tree. The guy was over 400 lbs. My guess is he heard about these "horror stories" of larger than normal cartridges, and it grows from there. People are made into "heroes" from this sort of nonsense.. my advice to you, find someone with a 45/70 rifle, and try it out, and see for yourself. The guide gun setup is great, and when your hunting, you won't feel recoil as much anyway. Good luck to you, and enjoy the 45/70!

quote:

Originally posted by byf42:
Tyler-

First, let me say congrats on joining the AR forums, the 45/70 band, and on being a hunter. Too many guys your age want to play video games, instead of being in the woods.
Second- forget about people with their tall tales of "rifles that will dislocate your shoulder" or "snap your collarbone". A guy told me once that a 10 gauge shotgun, when he fired it, threw him backwards 20 feet and through a small tree. The guy was over 400 lbs. My guess is he heard about these "horror stories" of larger than normal cartridges, and it grows from there. People are made into "heroes" from this sort of nonsense.. my advice to you, find someone with a 45/70 rifle, and try it out, and see for yourself. The guide gun setup is great, and when your hunting, you won't feel recoil as much anyway. Good luck to you, and enjoy the 45/70!

great post...

I used to shoot deer and jackrabbits with a M1895 in 45-70. The 400 grain speer flat nose really tore rabbits up. Deer too.

However, for large volume shooting I would prefer a lighter bullet.