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Back up revolver in dangerous territory, Ruger Super Redhawk 3" barrel | ||
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If you handload, there is not much difference. I would choose whatever you have dies, components, moulds, etc. for. If you do not handload, I would recommend the .44 Magnum as most factory .45 Colt loads are wimpy, and the ones that are loaded to higher pressures may be hard to find. I have no idea what may be available in Argentina. I shoot and enjoy both the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt. | |||
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Dale, my question is not for Argentna use. It's for hunt in other country. I reload the .44 mg from 1985 for my S&W 629 6" barrell but now i'm reading about very good reloads with the .45 LC in Ruger SuperRedhawk. I'm curious. Thanks and Regards, Hector | |||
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What kind of “dangerous” country are you needing this revolver for? Dangerous like New York City or dangerous like fishing on a salmon stream in Alaska? | |||
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I really like my Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 454 Casull. It has a 2.5" barrel, stainless steel, and you can shoot 45 Colt out of it as well. Six shooter, non-fluted cylinder. Energy is about twice as much as a 44 mag. in the Casull. 45 Colt in this revolver is like shooting a 38 special. Best of both worlds IMO. | |||
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One point to remember is whichever cartridge you choose is can you control it. The most powerful sure bear stopper in the world doesn't do you much good unless you can use it fast and accurately for repeated shots. This isn't the same as using it for hunting where a carefully aimed shot is the highest priority. So for most the really powerful choices aren't in the running. I think either of your two examples properly loaded would be just fine. The .44 magnum is going to be easier to find ammo for. The .45LC does have a few choices of factory ammo to fit the bill. It sounds like you already have the .44 so go for the .45 and have some fun!  Ruger makes a .45LC/.45ACP convertible Blackhawk I keep eyeing that would work. But that's just me!  Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Also a red hawk with shorter barrel round butt stainless steel. I have been really tempted by. | |||
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I have one of these as well as a 3 inch .44 Mag Blackhawk. I find the Redhawk much easier to shoot due to the grips, even though the Casull is much more powerful. Torch one out of that short barreled Casull without hearing protection though and say goodbye to your hearing. It is WAY louder than any braked rifle IMO. | |||
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I think (or dream ...) to hunt in Alaska (I would not dare to hunt in NY City ...) and shot without problems the .44 mg with reloads of 300 grs in 6" barrel. The caliber .454 Casull is not allowed In my country. My question is to know which of the two calibers they recommend as back-up, knowing now that I can reload them both.Thanks in advance to all, Hector | |||
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I was asking what are you planning to back up? As in, what sort of animals do you plan to need this for? I see now alaska. | |||
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Brown Bear. | |||
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More power the better that you can control. Are you going to be hunting brown bear with a rifle and carrying a handgun as well? | |||
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My take is .45 colt or .44 mag in a redhawk. Both can be handloaded to about the same performance. My criticism is the redhawk itself. Always overly heavy with a poor, heavy trigger pull. I much prefer a pinned and recessed Smith & Wesson. | |||
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Red hawks revolvers are some of the easiest to do a action job. | |||
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I remember watching a video back in the late 80's or early 90's of a very slight woman hunting with a .454 Casull. She killed her elk - but a friend that was in camp at the time of her hunt pointed out the costume change after the shot in the movie to cover up the large gash in her forehead where the hand cannon smacked her due to the significant recoil. Made a lasting impression on me. I have always wondered about the ability to execute a quick, accurate follow up shot with blood streaming into your eyes. Maybe you don't need a second shot. Maybe your wrists are strong enough to control the recoil. Just seems like the phrase "the biggest gun you can shoot accurately " is real appropriate in this particular situation. | |||
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I would agree a 454 Casull is not the best selection for "a very slight woman" you mentioned in the film, or a youth. Better choices can be had. However, I am a small to average size man with small hands. I weigh 160 lbs. and am 5'7". I can easily control and shoot the 454. Recoil? Yes, and a lot of it! But as mentioned, the revolver is heavy and that helps. If I were to choose only a 45 Colt or 44 magnum, I too would choose a lighter version in a Smith & Wesson. But I wanted the 454 option added to the 45 Colt cartridge. Like the lady in the film, if one can't hold on with a tight grip, skip the 454. | |||
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Still leaves them heavier than a winchester 94 trapper in 30-30 or 38-55. | |||
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And the double action trigger pulls on S@W revolvers are heavier then those rifle trigger pulls. What's the point about rifle trigger pulls when we are talking handguns. | |||
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Sorry, I try to rephrase so you understand my point. The redhawk is robust and you can get an action job so it does not feel like it is full of sand. But, dog... it is heavy for a 45 colt or 44 mag. I have a prelock smith and wesson 44 mag with a 3 inch barrel that is pretty pleasant to carry. I would rathef carry a rifle than that redhawk. Too heavy and too bulky. | |||
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[QUOTE.]I would rather carry a rifle than that redhawk. Too heavy and too bulky.[/QUOTE] A Redhawk would be bulkier than carrying a rifle?!! Maybe weight-wise, I don't know as I don't own a Trapper 30-30, but surely not bulk-wise. You can carry a Redhawk in a holster, but the rifle will be carried in your hands. That leaves your hands free for work, or carrying a more powerful rifle than a 30-30. I'm confused by your statement. | |||
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I just weighed my Ruger Redhawk Alaskan 454 Casull on my scales. It weighs 2.75 lbs. It's the 2.5" barrel. As I said, I don't own a Trapper Model 30-30, but my Marlin 336 in 30-30 weighs around 7 lbs. Surely this Trapper model doesn't weigh less than my Ruger Redhawk, does it?!!!!!! It appears to me that the 30-30 is both heavier and bulkier than the Ruger Redhawk. What am I missing here? | |||
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I think the fact that a person hunts anything with a rifle, has nothing to do with the carrying of a back-up hand gun, so that he is armed no matter what he is doing. There are times when one is not using a rifle like working around camp, gutting and quartering a caribou, or taking a crap in the bush where a rifle is more of a hindrance than a help. In Alaska I hunt with a bolt action 375 H&H scoped rifle, but I carry a Ruger Blackhawk 41 mag in a tanker chest rig under my rain gear, for times when my rifle is not at hand because of what ever I'm doing at the time. The handgun is simply a little insurance policy when it is needed, and your rifle is not near by! My 41 mag is close at hand even when sleeping in my tent at night, handling a fishing rod, or gutting a boue! Beats hell out of a pocket knife! .....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Ya I agree. I guess I was more curious if it was a guided hunt or maybe more of a fishing trip type adventure. Certain types of handguns carry better than others depending if hou’ve Got to have a pack and rifle with you or just a pair of chest waders and fishing vest. | |||
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Or a rock, fingers to the eyes, a sharp stick or any other non firearm weapon you might have. | |||
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the thing about the 44 and 45 is they are basically identical. I swap the powder measure from the 44 tool head to the 45 tool head and never touch it. so what I end up with is a slightly heavier fatter bullet or a slightly longer skinnier bullet going pretty much the same speed. I cast them from the same alloy and use the same bullet design.[shrug] I can't tell them apart on game and the game don't know the difference either. | |||
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Probably, that a trapper can be easily one hand carried or slung. The redhawk would pull my pants off I think. I guess if it was in 454 or 480, it might justify the weight. But the few I have handled were not for me. | |||
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Alaskan hunting is physically demanding and carrying the additional weight of a handgun in addition to ones rifle always seemed a real waste of energy. If you can't kill a bear with a rifle , it is pretty doubtful you will do any better with a handgun ! Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Totally agree.... | |||
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Phil, that's a good statement that few will disagree with. I certainly wouldn't disagree. However, it doesn't speak to the spirit of the question IMO. MacD37 already laid out some circumstances where one won't have a rifle in one's hands, like cleaning an animal, cooking at a campfire, setting up camp, chopping wood, making a nature call, etc. Does anyone always have a rifle in their hands 100% of the time on a hunt? I don't, but can't speak for anyone else. One poster said the weight of a Redhawk would pull his pants down. They do make shoulder holsters. I've read of some persons on safari, some PHs, who have saved themselves with a handgun with a DG animal. The famous John Taylor even advocated carrying a handgun. I think I read onetime of a famous Alaskan guide who dispatched a big bear with a 9mm handgun. His name eludes me for the moment,.......Phil I think it was. Joking aside, I couldn't agree with you more about the rifle vs. handgun choice. But wouldn't you agree that a handgun beats a frying pan, sharp knife, or firewood?  | |||
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Last October my guide carried a Blackhawk in a chest holster. Kept it on him all the time while in camp, whereas his rifle was not always at his side (and we did have a bear walk within 20 yards of camp). I don't think he carried the handgun in the field while hunting; can't remember. On the other hand, I don't recall any other guides having a handgun, but I honestly didn't pay that much attention. A PH I hunted with twice in Africa carried a .44 Mag Blackhawk; one time I shot a baboon at 450 yards but didn't kill it cleanly; he dispatched it with his .44, saving me a bullet. | |||
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I would opt for the 45 LC with a good flat nosed lead simi Keith wadcutter, and hope I never had to use it on the bear that just killed me...I would sure as hell prefer even a 30-30 to stop a bear..I can shoot it better..I never carry a pistol when hunting. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Bingo we have a winner! If you're a visiting hunter going for grizzly/brown bear your going to have a guide. The client needs nothing but his rifle. Besides bears aren't hiding behind every tree waiting to get you.  Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Still, I'm sure Phil was appreciative of the 9mm handgun he used on that bear! I need to find and reread that article/thread. A brave and professional Ph IMO.  | |||
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The best advice I’ve heard to date is to use the firearm one is most comfortable shooting. Really important is hitting the right spot, especially when seconds count. It sounds like you have a lot of mileage with your 629 and the cartridge is plenty capable. Your chances of hitting the right spot will be better with it thqn a newer and only marginally better pistol and cartridge combination. BTW I much prefer double action revokvers even though I normally use them in the single action mode. I think it is because I like the fit of the S&W grip a lot more than the Colt Peacemaker style grip. | |||
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I guarantee you, I was wishing I had my 458 in my hands when I heard the bear huffing and rapidly crashing through the brush back directly toward us after he had already run and circled back down wind !!! But the truth is, If you are hunting with a rifle you are not likely to be far away from it and bears are not hiding behind every bush, nor are they out to get you. When the 9mm incident happened we were in very thick cover along a prime fishing creek during a Salmon run. It's not a place ANYONE , except another Treadwell, would EVER choose to camp ! And if you happened to kill a moose in that terrain, as we have many times, a wise person will keep their rifle handy and their ears open. When my daughter and I were skinning that bear we could hear another big boar , most likely the one I killed had been fighting with, fishing not 20 yards from us ! Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Most likely that can be said of any who had to defend themselves from a charging bear and didn't have a rifle. But the truth is you didn't have your rifle and you didn't use bear spray you used a 9mm handgun. If one could tell the future one would avoid the situation. The trouble is one can not know the future. A good hand gun is, has been and well be a very good choice for self defense and against all kinds of assaults against ones person. That can be carried by ones self most all the time. | |||
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And watch for birds or lack thereof. I shot a moose in BC one afternoon in a small open area with vegetation 3-4 feet high. We took some of meat back to our spike camp and returned the next day for a day of meat hauling. My guide said, "Be ready, there might be a grizzly on that moose." I asked why he was so concerned and he pointed out that typically ravens would picking over the gut pile, but not if a bear was on it. Sure enough, we had a griz sow and two cubs on it. They took off. She had buried the quarters. In 2016 I watched my moose gut pile for a few days. Every time we approached it we saw the birds, and never did see any sign of bears. | |||
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Or keep your pistol handy pictures and full story at the link. http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2...gnum-longest_24.html On September 7th, 2006, Alaskan moose hunters, Doug White and Reed Thompson, were working on packing out the meat and head from a successful moose hunt. They were attacked by a large grizzly bear. As the attack was in 2006, it did not get the coverage it would today. I found the account as I was searching for bear attacks where pistols had been used as a defensive measure. I vaguely remembered the incident. The bear moved from one hunter to the other during the attack, giving Doug the chance to access Reed's .44 magnum, that had been hung in a tree. Doug shot the bear and stopped the attack. | |||
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Shot a moose one late morning in the interior. Packed out what we could that day and flew it with the cub the next morning to check before we waxed thru the brush to get the rest of it. 6 full size grizzlies were camped on it! Looked like brown fuzzy maggots crawling around on it, we buzzed them and they chased the plane around. They even ate the antlers. Had we not flown it, we woulda got hurt. No rifle and hangun combination woulda been enough, I never would have expected that many bears at once! | |||
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Wow that must have been something to see. I thought seeing three at a time was interesting. | |||
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