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Just got my copy of American Hunter today in the mail. An artical titled 'Bear Defense from the Professionals' noted that the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 454 Casull was the most popular in Alaska. The only others mentioned was the Taurus Raging Bull in 454 Casull and the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 44 Mag. if the Casull was too much recoil for the shooter. The article was written by Steve Nelson who teaches these courses for the Alaska DNR, Alaska Fish & Game, US Bureau of Land Management, and US Geological Survey workers. So, maybe he doesn't know or have the experience of many of the AR members here, but it's interesting to me that he chooses the 454 Casull also, besides saying it is the most popular choice of Alaskans. I'm surely no expert on this subject. Any comments? | |||
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Right now my largest caliber handgun is a 460S@W. I use what would be just over a top end 454 load in it. I used a 500 S@W 454 and own a 45-70 14 inch contender. I decided a 300 plus gr. bullet at around 1500fps is really the most I want to shoot on a regular basis. I am always torn between power and control ability. Many people have use a lot lessor calibers for bear defense and been successful. My 44 hunting load gives just under 1300fps with a 315gr WFN hard cast out of several 44mags I owned. It gives 1140 out of my 4 inch red hawk. I used a different load bullet with the 315gr for 1000fps out of my Taurus tracker. A full out load of H110 is really to much of a good thing out of that. Getting a good solid first round hit is far more important then then the handgun used to do it with. I know that a 210gr hard cast out of my 41 mag Ti tracker at just under 1100fps has no trouble driving bullets in one side and out the other of a 500lb black bears head. At 27oz and a effective barrel length of only 3 inches because of the ports it is what it gets. Even from handguns cartridges with lower velocities hard non expanding bullets give penetration in the upper 20s to 30 inches. SWC's and WFN hard cast bullets above 1000fps in a lot of calibers tend to give more penetration. Plenty to reach the vitals on even some very large critters. What more is needed than a bullet that penetrates the vitals and destroys enough tissue to stop the animal. Getting hits on the animal is far more important then the handgun use to do it. Use the handgun that you well carry all the time with bullets that give good penetration. that you can shoot well. And in a large majority of cases you well get the job down. | |||
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Just you wait there will be some young buck texan pipe up here in a minute they can fill you in on the way it really is.      | |||
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No comment Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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You have my admiration. At my age I would have to hire a caddy to carry that gun for me lol. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Wow ... This from a dude who shot 10+rds of 9mm hardcast into a bear's ass at 6ft?! Speaks volumes.   All The Best ... | |||
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It was only 7, and six were from the front and in the vitals. And from what I have learned from the internet is that there seem to be a hell of a lot more bear experts from the lower 48 and thankfully they have managed to convince me that all the bears they have run into require really big handguns. So I don't recommend any type pistol or caliber to those with such vast expertise. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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As Hal Waugh said “the more I learn about brown bears the more I realize I don’t know about brown bears.” To bad he didn’t have those internet experts to help him get them bears figured out. | |||
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Fourtyonesix, Your Hal Waugh quote reminds me of a fella who said "I'm smart enough to know what I don't know". Now that fella's smart !!! I try to surround myself with people who are smarter than myself (not hard........I'm not that smart) because you'll learn from them...........but too many people confuse opinion with knowledge. | |||
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Welcome to the Internet forums, where you quickly learn that You may not be a dumb as you think And even if you are --- you are still above average ! Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Or dumber than you ever dreamed | |||
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Highly entertaining thread White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Phil and Jake, Most of us lower 48er's, and that includes us Texans, are smart enough to defer to you guys as the real bear experts.  Ya'll don't let the windowlicker auditioning for the role of "Texas Shootaway" taint all of us!  | |||
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+1 I always say the very same to many hunters...who needs a backup handgun other than for playing cowboy? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution http://www.patagoniaballistics.com | |||
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Man if you ever catch me claiming to be a bear expert....do something and do it quick! Make it painful so I don’t do it again! | |||
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Well Jake, you sure as hell know more about bears than some of those making claims on this forum. And as far as Phil using a 9mm to stop that bear, he obviously proved his knowledge of what works and how to apply that knowledge ... evidenced by the fact that neither he nor his clients got so much as a scratch! I think Phil and I disagreed a couple of times on things like how heavy a trigger pull needs to be on a DG rifle and maybe even the advantages of a rifle that's 6 ounces or so lighter than another, but when it comes to bears or hunting Alaska, I'll always defer to his expertise. Just to put a fine point on it, I've got something just short of 20,000 hours of flight time as a former military and commercial pilot, but I know exactly Jack Squat about the type of bush flying Phil does up there. Guys making suggestions of what needs to be carried in AK based on shooting / hunting / self defense conditions elsewhere (where those suggestions may well the the right option) in defiance of what you guys who live the lifestyle day in and day out say, would be like me as a jet based airline pilot, current in 757/767 operations in and out of large international airports, telling a bush pilot how to land on a gravel strip with a Super Cub. I have flown Super Cubs. I've even flown a Super Cub in Alaska. I've hunted Alaska. I've hunted Bears. Brownies and Blacks. Doesn't mean I know a damed thing about any of these activities on my own and for damned sure, doesn't mean my advice on them would hold any water, other than to defer to those who really know the subject matter through actual experience.  | |||
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Thanks Todd, It takes an awful lot of learning to know what you don't know . Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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3333 Right On Phil !! I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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Carlos- For what exactly, is the revolver intended to be a backup? ........................................................................ If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli American by birth; Alaskan by choice. | |||
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Why, that awesome .375 Thing-a-Majig he left back in the tent or cabin when he stepped outside and walked 25-yds into the bush to take a whizz. Then suddenly Mr. Grizz or Ms. Sow appears, looking at him for breakfast, and WHOA! Nellie!, now it's O.K. Corral time. Folks have spent 5-pages arguing what is, or isn't, a suitable sidearm for such a situation. Opinions vary, obviously, but no one wants to be caught with their manly man-stem in hand, wearing soft shoes and falling on their keister while backing up and screaming like a beeatch. That only aggravates the bear and makes it hungrier.  Nope, you need to have a suitable handgun on you, one that's fully capable of lighting up that bruin. The Phil-meister got away with (allegedly) 7-shots of Buffalo Bore's rather hot 147gn 9mm hardcast load ; others counsel larger caliber guns that fire heavier, deeply-penetrating projectiles at magnum velocities. Between a 5- or 6-shot boat-anchor Magnum wheelgun, and the easier-to-tote (and thus always-on-you) 10mm Glock 20, loaded 15+1 with hot & heavy ammo, it's not even close ... Go G20 - all day every day. All The Best ... | |||
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I poked a hole in a black bear with my 10mm several years ago. Before Mike was selling Double Tap commercially. I carry a bigger gun now. I’ll sometimes carry my 10 if I’m going somewhere that bears are possible but unlikely. When I go where I know they are, like fishing, my 44 mag or 475 go with me. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
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Allegedly? Photos and a sworn affidavits by folks who were there are not enough for you, but you are so sure of yourself that you recommend a 10mm as adequate ? Have you actually tested the 9 and 10 side by side? I have always said, it's your life so carry whatever gun you want but if you are serious about it make sure you are proficient with your weapon. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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When someone only owns one gun or dreams about owning it. They tend to fantasize about how wonderful it is or would be. Those of us who have owned many and use them in real life. Know that most if used properly well get the job done. | |||
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You’re an idiot. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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When I lived and hunted in Alaska I always had my handgun handy, especially in my sleeping bag inside my 2 man tent. If a bear gets on you in the tent and sleeping bad a rifle is totally useless in my experience. Working a moose kill the handgun was on me and my rifle use propped against a tree and not as handy or quickly acquired. My handgun came in handy when a grizzly came in on us while working a moose kill. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Note my location. I am aware! Carlos made no mention of what was being backed up nor the intended use. (other than "backup") ........................................................................ If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli American by birth; Alaskan by choice. | |||
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Time to wake up and smell the coffee grounds ... The 10mm AUTO is the 'New Jack City' cartridge that younger Alaskan's are packing into the AK bush for Grizz-protection. Chuke be a wise fellow. A little chatty, but otherwise interesting: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQrYwt7K6LY All The Best ... | |||
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Once dat Moose crossed da line, ... ... it was O.K. Corral time: Moose vs. Snowmobiler w/ 10mm Glock: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...google&layout=tablet All The Best ... | |||
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Is that why we see so few of them? Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
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It's obvious the rider provoked that charge and should be held accountable. | |||
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But you don't.  Myopic eye-sight is curable. Willful ignorance is more difficult because it's self-imposed.  More and more AK residents, especially younger ones like Chuke, are choosing a 10mm autoloader to pack into the bush, with or without a rifle. Good for them. All The Best ... | |||
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Huh? Dude, the Moose charged him twice on a clear snowmobile trail where the rider had a right to be. It was only when his spooky 'mouth noises' failed to scare the Moose away that the rider resorted to shooting him on the third charge. I showed this YouTube clip to three attorneys, all of whom are hunters and competitive shooters, and two of them have been to AK, and the other to Africa. Guess what? All three said this guy's moose shooting was fully DLP-justified. So I asked, hypothetically, what if some dipstick AK game-warden decided to charged this snowmobile guy with a DLP violation based on this video? Response was, essentially: "said officer would get his keister shredded in court. Not a leg to stand on." Ouchy Word to the wise. All The Best ... | |||
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What a stupid f.....g video,no respect for wildlife at all DRSS | |||
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To be honest, that’s not even close to accurate. Unless you’re polling people going “into the bush” at Eureka lodge. Then you might be into something. Only Angels and Aviators have wings | |||
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Uh, Dude, Anyone with any kind of experience with moose in the winter time knows darn well that moose was going to stand it's ground for a little while. Eventually moving off at it's discretion. The repeated yipping and advancing the snow machine incited the charge, there was no possibly that moose would yield. The rider had adequate opportunity to turn, back off, wait, u turn, whatever. The video demonstrates no urgency to advance. We're I the game warden not only would I insist he meet the letter of the dlp law and salvage every ounce of that moose and deliver it to me but I would also throw as many charges at him as I could whether or not I thought any of them actually sticking would be beside the point. It'd be teach you a lesson time. The rider demonstrated callous ignorance and as far as I'm concerned malicious intent. Here in AK we don't hold our wildlife in such low regard. | |||
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For starters, that's called harassment of wildlife. Secondly, that was not a justifiable DLP. I hope that a-hole was charged (legally). Texans opining, with Texan lawyer-backup is never not funny. Carry on. ........................................................................ If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli American by birth; Alaskan by choice. | |||
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To my knowledge it was never proven to what state or country it happened in let alone any charges were filed. I glad that pro moose people would gladly let the animal attack them. This fellows life was endanger no matter why. Could it have been avoided maybe, maybe not. Trying to read an animals mind is hard thing to do. | |||
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Point 1 - I completely agree. The guy showed poor judgement, or worse, by closing the distance with the animal instead of giving it space to move on by its on will. Point 2 - Because of Point 1, again, I completely agree. Point 3 - Some of you Alaskans like painting us Texans with a very broad brush. How bout not lumping all of us into the same category with this mom's basement dwelling, hot pocket munching, mountain dew sipping, video gaming, Shootaway mimicking, Cheetos fingered, "All The Best" wishing douchenozzle! I'm sure that would go a long way toward removing the "Alaska Bush People" stereotype some might hold. And yes TSTRUM, we did see your Pecker Puffin Party comment before you thought better and deleted it. Actually, it was funny. It should have just been aimed directly at the above mentioned troll. | |||
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It was, | |||
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